• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:46
CEST 10:46
KST 17:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 297Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion7BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion7Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) What is your PC setup in 2026 for SCBW/SC2 ?
Tourneys
GSL CK #5 Race War WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool ASL22 General Discussion Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5902 users

Man vs Bot

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
djsherman
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States140 Posts
October 30 2010 21:14 GMT
#1
A lot of interesting bots were submitted to the StarCraft AI Competition. However, even the best could not beat a skilled human player.

But what about amateur players? Kotaku claimed that most casual StarCraft players would be unable to defeat the bots. The goal of this thread is to test that claim. To do so, I played against the winner of each of the four tournaments. My crowning achievement in StarCraft is once reaching D+ on ICCup, so my skill is much less than that of DoGo, who previously played against the bots.

Tournament 1: Micromanagement
The first tournament focuses on micromanagement in flat-terrain environments. The winner was FreScBot, which uses a multi-agent, finite-state-machine approach. The results are shown in the video below:



+ Show Spoiler +
Dragoons: 2-1 bot advantage
Mutalisk: 2-0 bot advantage
Zealots: 2-1 bot advantage

Winner: Bot
While I was able to win 2 of the games, the bot's micro was too beastly for my skill.


Tournament 2: Small-Scale Combat
The second tournament builds on the first tournament by adding interesting terrain to the maps. The winner was again FreScBot and my encounter versus the bot is shown below:



+ Show Spoiler +
Match 1 - Dragoons: 1-0 man advantage
Match 2 - Marine/Medic: 1-0 man advantage
Match 3 - Dragoons: 1-0 man advantage

Winner: Man
Adding complex terrain into the mix really offset the skill of the bot. While I was unable to defeat the bot's dragoons micro in the first tournament, I was able to use the topology of the map to my advantage in the second tournament.


Tournament 3: Tech-limited Game
The tech-limited game tournament evaluates bots in a simplified StarCraft environment. The winner was Mimic Bot, which attempts to mirror your build while also stealing your gas and expanding as necessary:







+ Show Spoiler +
2-1 man advantage

Winner: Man
This match was surprisingly difficult. The first game I went goons and was simply out microed by the bot. In the second game, I focused on zealots and used the lack of collecting gas to gain a slight advantage in zealot count. In the third game, I had some fun with the bot, and somehow pulled out a win.

While I was able to win a majority of the matches, the games were very entertaining and I enjoyed the challenge provided by the bot.


Tournament 4: Full Gameplay
The complete StarCraft tournament evaluates bots in the full-blown StarCraft game. The winner was Berkeley's Overmind, a bot too complicated to try to explain:









+ Show Spoiler +
Terran: 1-0 man advantage
Protoss: 1-0 man advantage
Zerg: 1-0 man advantage

Winner: Man
In the first game, I went for a fantasy style build with a vulture drop. I had several issues with my build, such as a failed wall-off, but I was still able to pull out a victory, eventually. Once the mutalisk get out, it is relentless pounding on your base, so it took me awhile to deal with the opponent's expansions. In game two, the bot simply could not handle the zealot timing. Part of the issue is that the bot went for a 12-pool instead of a 9-pool, even though it scouts quite early in the game. And in the final game, the bot could not handle my zergling speed while trying to tech too quickly.


Conclusion:
Despite advances in AI, man still reigns supreme, even at an amateur level. I'm not showing this result as a spoiler, because man's supremacy has already been demonstrated. There are a few interesting takeaways from this experiment:

1. These bots are really fun to play against! Overmind and MimicBot challenged me in ways I never imagined, and it really required adapting my strategy to overcome the opponent.

2. Building a zerg bot is hard! Berkeley was pretty ballsy in deciding to go with Zerg and I commend them for their effort.

I'd like to encourage people to play against the bots, but the setup is a little challenging. All bots are now available on the tournament website.
StarCraft AI Competition Organizer
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
October 30 2010 21:26 GMT
#2
ahhh cool stuff! are these the winners of the "final round" of the AI contest?
Writer
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9808 Posts
October 30 2010 21:35 GMT
#3
can't wait to see if really good bots ever emerge, it'd be like playing koreans all the time except i dont have to stay up all night/wake up early :D
boomer hands
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1717 Posts
October 30 2010 21:51 GMT
#4
Downloaded the bots just to try them out...
Could someone help me with how to install/use them?
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
djsherman
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States140 Posts
October 30 2010 21:57 GMT
#5
On October 31 2010 06:51 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Could someone help me with how to install/use them?


See the section on running the bots here.

You'll also need to find out which version of BWAPI to use for each Participant.

Unfortunately, it takes two machines to play against a bot. One machine runs the bot, assuming the human player's controls. and the other machine for the human to play. More details at BWAPI.
StarCraft AI Competition Organizer
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9808 Posts
October 30 2010 22:01 GMT
#6
On October 31 2010 06:57 djsherman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 06:51 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Could someone help me with how to install/use them?


See the section on running the bots here.

You'll also need to find out which version of BWAPI to use for each Participant.

Unfortunately, it takes two machines to play against a bot. One machine runs the bot, assuming the human player's controls. and the other machine for the human to play. More details at BWAPI.

have you tried running the bot on a virtual machine while the player uses the real machine?
boomer hands
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1717 Posts
October 30 2010 22:02 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 31 2010 07:01 seRapH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 06:57 djsherman wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:51 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Could someone help me with how to install/use them?


See the section on running the bots here.

You'll also need to find out which version of BWAPI to use for each Participant.

Unfortunately, it takes two machines to play against a bot. One machine runs the bot, assuming the human player's controls. and the other machine for the human to play. More details at BWAPI.

have you tried running the bot on a virtual machine while the player uses the real machine?

thanks! seems kind of complicated though
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
djsherman
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States140 Posts
October 30 2010 22:05 GMT
#8
On October 31 2010 07:01 seRapH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 06:57 djsherman wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:51 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Could someone help me with how to install/use them?


See the section on running the bots here.

You'll also need to find out which version of BWAPI to use for each Participant.

Unfortunately, it takes two machines to play against a bot. One machine runs the bot, assuming the human player's controls. and the other machine for the human to play. More details at BWAPI.

have you tried running the bot on a virtual machine while the player uses the real machine?


Should work! I recommend Virtual box. I've tired bot vs bot on one machine, but not man vs bot:

StarCraft AI Competition Organizer
djsherman
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States140 Posts
October 30 2010 22:09 GMT
#9
On October 31 2010 07:02 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 31 2010 07:01 seRapH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 06:57 djsherman wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:51 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Could someone help me with how to install/use them?


See the section on running the bots here.

You'll also need to find out which version of BWAPI to use for each Participant.

Unfortunately, it takes two machines to play against a bot. One machine runs the bot, assuming the human player's controls. and the other machine for the human to play. More details at BWAPI.

have you tried running the bot on a virtual machine while the player uses the real machine?

thanks! seems kind of complicated though


I'm working towards being able to host these on a server so that players don't need to run two machines; they can just connect to a server. Therefore, playing against all these bots would just require adding an additional gateway address.
StarCraft AI Competition Organizer
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6777 Posts
October 30 2010 22:37 GMT
#10
Someone should really make an easy way of loading these bots, so that the use of this goes further than just programmers

Will these tourneys be held in the coming years aswell?
Graphics
djsherman
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States140 Posts
October 30 2010 22:45 GMT
#11
On October 31 2010 07:37 Xeofreestyler wrote:
Will these tourneys be held in the coming years aswell?


Yes, AIIDE 2011 will have a competition hosted by the University of Alberta. And we are working towards making these systems more accessible. The goal is to have something similar to computer chess servers, expect for StarCraft, and with matchmaking!
StarCraft AI Competition Organizer
.Aar
Profile Joined September 2010
2177 Posts
October 30 2010 22:47 GMT
#12
Wow, this was really cool to watch.

Some day, many years in the future, when BW dies out (god forbid, but it'll happen) maybe programmers will keep it around by building better bots :D
now run into the setting sun, and suffer, but don't mess up your hair.
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6777 Posts
October 30 2010 22:53 GMT
#13
And then you'll have like a perpetual starleague of insanely good bots, battling it out 24/7.
Graphics
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
October 30 2010 23:10 GMT
#14
I thought your link for man's domination over computer was Jaedong's computer opponent.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
djsherman
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States140 Posts
October 31 2010 00:05 GMT
#15
On October 31 2010 08:10 MangoTango wrote:
I thought your link for man's domination over computer was Jaedong's computer opponent.


People are now saying Jaedong is a robot? I throught Flash was the only machine allowed to participate. But yeah, Jaedong does have crazy foresight and seems to win when he is behind.
StarCraft AI Competition Organizer
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9808 Posts
October 31 2010 00:39 GMT
#16
On October 31 2010 09:05 djsherman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 08:10 MangoTango wrote:
I thought your link for man's domination over computer was Jaedong's computer opponent.


People are now saying Jaedong is a robot? I throught Flash was the only machine allowed to participate. But yeah, Jaedong does have crazy foresight and seems to win when he is behind.

he meant japan's wcg participants
boomer hands
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
October 31 2010 02:14 GMT
#17
Flash is technically a bot. So hire him.
▲ ▲ ▲
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
October 31 2010 02:44 GMT
#18
This is a really cool write-up and experiment, great work.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-31 02:50:28
October 31 2010 02:46 GMT
#19
You're welcome to try fighting my ZAPOC AI and tell me how it goes for you.

This was not made with BWAPI and is thus ineligable for that contest. As such it does not have any of the advantages the BWAPI AI has. It has other advantages. It was made to destroy other AI's. But I suspect that ZAPOC could confidently defeat most teams of 7 human players under C level so long as they don't worker cheese it or nuke cheese it.

http://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3094&p=38736&hilit=ZAPOC#p38736

Enjoy. You don't need two machines to run this.

I did a small video documentary on some of our AI's, which would be considered fairly phased out by BWAPI of similar calibur. But AFAIK no one has attempted to make a serious cheating BWAPI AI along the lines of what we made, though. A BWAPI AI with micro capacity fused with ZAPOC's as-is functionality would certainly be an unkillable AI.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=135868
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-31 03:13:10
October 31 2010 03:06 GMT
#20
On October 31 2010 11:46 IskatuMesk wrote:
You're welcome to try fighting my ZAPOC AI and tell me how it goes for you.

This was not made with BWAPI and is thus ineligable for that contest. As such it does not have any of the advantages the BWAPI AI has. It has other advantages. It was made to destroy other AI's. But I suspect that ZAPOC could confidently defeat most teams of 7 human players under C level so long as they don't worker cheese it or nuke cheese it.

http://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3094&p=38736&hilit=ZAPOC#p38736

Enjoy. You don't need two machines to run this.

I did a small video documentary on some of our AI's, which would be considered fairly phased out by BWAPI of similar calibur. But AFAIK no one has attempted to make a serious cheating BWAPI AI along the lines of what we made, though. A BWAPI AI with micro capacity fused with ZAPOC's as-is functionality would certainly be an unkillable AI.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=135868


this is also really cool, but does it work in non-money maps? it seems to be made as an "insane-type" AI that receives money every x seconds...
Writer
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Tasteless 395
firebathero 307
Larva 175
Free 172
PianO 52
ToSsGirL 47
ggaemo 44
Bale 41
sorry 23
Aegong 20
[ Show more ]
Hm[arnc] 19
ZergMaN 18
Noble 16
IntoTheRainbow 11
Horang2 0
League of Legends
JimRising 587
Counter-Strike
summit1g6934
Other Games
ceh9552
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2263
BasetradeTV243
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH302
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota277
League of Legends
• Stunt541
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
2h 14m
The PondCast
1d 1h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Dragon vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.