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5003 Posts
Let's stop posting speculative articles as sources, shall we? I guess it's kinda my fault for not going through them I guess, but there's a reason I ignored a lot of the news that came out recently.
Anyway, let's summarize what's been going on recently.
Hard Facts
- Negotiations Began on July 23rd. KeSPA and Gretech form an NDA on the 9th.
- The parties involved are KOCCA (Korean Creative Contents Agency), representatives from SKT, KT, and Woongjin, and a representative from the KeSPA executive office. They are negotiating with Gretech.
- 4 meetings total. The 4th meeting did not go well.
Sources:+ Show Spoiler +
"Things Said by People"
Each bullet point represents statements said by one personnel. Basically, this is all the info we have regarding negotiations.
- On the 26th, the 4th negotiation meeting with KeSPA and Gretech took place. While the first three meetings went smoothly and there were hopes that the 4th meeting would finally end the problem, the opposite situation happened. GSL was the center of the problem, because starting with October, the schedules would conflict with the Proleague. GSL takes place from Monday to Friday, and Proleague goes from Saturday to Wednesday -- Monday and Tuesday's prime time slots became the main cause of the problem.
- "Unlike the last three meetings, there were a lot of demands that was not understandable, but we tried to understand and just let it go. It looks like it was difficult to accept "demands" that didn't have clear guidelines or direction, saying that KeSPA should figure it out for themselves". "It's hard to look at the one sided and coercive demands as negotiations" [Someone well informed with KeSPA]
- "While we did give an opinion in that pressing time, rather than asking for a specific amount, we asked for the smooth operation of both leagues" "From Gretech's perspective, they would need to be careful about everything, so rather than giving guidelines, they considered actualizing a proposal that will permit the greatest degree of freedom rather than suggesting a guideline." [Someone well informed with Gretech]
- "While it could be rooted in the buried emotions they have against one another, I think Gretech was a bit hasty in this case. In order to have a smooth negotiations, the parties need to exchange opinions carefully. Within this process, their demands regarding GSL and moving Proleague's schedule was enough to create a problem"
- "In the past, there was a case where Gretech's Gom Classic was boycotted. I wonder if this was something done to minimize that kind of damages. It's likely a policy to have their Starcraft 2 league operate safely"
- The two Fomos articles, representing more sides of the picture. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=148991
- Negotiations supposedly ended with "If we understand correctly, Gretech's demands are saying that, because the 7 year old Proleague does not benefit the company, thus, Gretech wants to get rid of it", with Gretech's side responding "That is correct"
- KT's representative that partook in the negotiations: "We once again confirmed that Gretech does not have any desire to negotiate as they deny the existence of Progame teams and the Proleague"
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, piecing it together, this is how I imagine the negotiations to have went.
- First three negotiations went okay.
- In the fourth negotiation, KeSPA asks Gretech how much they want. Gretech, rather than answering with an amount, they say they want an "Harmonious operation of both leagues"
- Gretech wants Proleague's prime time slots. KeSPA finds this ridiculous.
- Gretech is then wondering how KeSPA will reimburse the GSL, since the Proleague will "compete" with it and damage it. KeSPA responds that they refuse to reimburse damages for the GSL. Gretech asks if it's not monetary, in what other way will KeSPA pay for damages. KeSPA says they're here to talk about the Proleague, not about GSL and Starcraft 2
- Gretech refuses to sign off on the Proleague because it will compete with the GSL. KeSPA asks to confirm if Gretech is killing Proleague off because it does not benefit Gretech. Gretech answers yes. Negotiations end.
Responses
- KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations. Gretech's personnel responds that KeSPA will not avoid a lawsuit if this happens.
- SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. Apparently, they're trying to get all the progame teams to unify.
Sources:
+ Show Spoiler +
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KeSPA will be going on with the next season of Proleague, regardless of negotiations.
This somewhat puts me at ease.
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Will Kespa gets a lawsuit thing from Blizzard since Kespa isnt allowed to host anymore BW games??
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United States8841 Posts
Gretech better make nice because I don't think Kespa will give up the biggest foundation in esports.
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I think it's a shame, I wish the BW players could play sc2 as they please, I can't wait to see Jaedong, Flash, and nal_ra when he finishes his army duty, play sc2.
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10387 Posts
GOM wants to revert eSports back to the dark ages I see, it seems to not understand the utmost importance of Proleague :\
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If it goes to the courts it'll be an interesting battle to see, even though the fate of my beloved spectator sport is on the line. Kespa's side definitely has much better government relations since it was formed partially under the auspices of the cultural ministry, IIRC.
I'm definitely surprised to learn exactly how small Gretech is and how far they're going. And I guess CJ doesn't care enough about the whole situation to really strong-arm anything out of Gretech or OGN/Onmedia.
If that claimed Gretech employee's post here about "if you could see our balance sheet" and so on was authentic and accurate, they could really be at risk. Without television broadcasting of their tournament, the reach is still very limited. And the need to charge foreign viewers for the content (while allowing South Koreans to view for free) still shows that they can't monetize the foreign audience through sponsorship/advertising.
Oh, and thanks for helping dispel some of the misinformation around here, although I do expect plenty of people to keep spouting nonsense.
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5003 Posts
If that claimed Gretech employee's post here about "if you could see our balance sheet" and so on was authentic and accurate, they could really be at risk. Without television broadcasting of their tournament, the reach is still very limited. And the need to charge foreign viewers for the content (while allowing South Koreans to view for free) still shows that they can't monetize the foreign audience through sponsorship/advertising.
They did get a Cable TV Channel (ETN) and an IPTV (QookTV) recently. Strangely this was announced AFTER the negotiations, and QookTV is owned by KT. So...
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it doesnt look good for kespa.... as much as i like proleague, i think if theres a lawsuit, gretech/blizzard will win because it's blizzard's game.
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On September 07 2010 13:13 tok wrote:
I think it's a shame, I wish the BW players could play sc2 as they please, I can't wait to see Jaedong, Flash, and nal_ra when he finishes his army duty, play sc2.
Well if they wanted to play SC2, they could always leave their current teams. But Gretech's tournament structure is antagonistic towards team competition - their entire "philosophy" article favored individual competition over teams, so if Gretech's vision of "esports" prevails, the team/salary structure in place today for BW cannot survive and most players today cannot get the income or support they do now, as in a world with only individual competitions, only the people at the top can make a living through the game, and others must find an alternative way to support themselves.
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On September 07 2010 13:17 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +If that claimed Gretech employee's post here about "if you could see our balance sheet" and so on was authentic and accurate, they could really be at risk. Without television broadcasting of their tournament, the reach is still very limited. And the need to charge foreign viewers for the content (while allowing South Koreans to view for free) still shows that they can't monetize the foreign audience through sponsorship/advertising. They did get a Cable TV Channel (ETN) and an IPTV (QookTV) recently. Strangely this was announced AFTER the negotiations, and QookTV is owned by KT. So...
What the? That's very strange given the so-called "solidarity". Actually given the dominance of cell phone service ads (SKT/KT) during pro BW, I found SKT/KT's emphasis on fighting against Gretech's move to damage proleague as expected...
Hmm...
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This is all blizzards fault.. they're such idiots for giving exclusive rights to their content to GOM and gretech  Thanks for the update man. I'm glad theyre boycotting sc2 events and blocking them from being broadcasted on OGN.
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If Gretech kills proleague I swear I will never watch another Gom event.
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What KeSPA needs to do is convince Lee Myungbak to ban the sale of SC2. Then we'll see who's boss.
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On September 07 2010 13:19 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 13:13 tok wrote:
I think it's a shame, I wish the BW players could play sc2 as they please, I can't wait to see Jaedong, Flash, and nal_ra when he finishes his army duty, play sc2. Well if they wanted to play SC2, they could always leave their current teams. But Gretech's tournament structure is antagonistic towards team competition - their entire "philosophy" article favored individual competition over teams, so if Gretech's vision of "esports" prevails, the team/salary structure in place today for BW cannot survive and most players today cannot get the income or support they do now, as in a world with only individual competitions, only the people at the top can make a living through the game, and others must find an alternative way to support themselves.
That would really suck. Some other players that haven't been performing as well as the others(FvJ anyone?) would be falling behind even though they had a huge fanbase
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On September 07 2010 13:24 So no fek wrote:If Gretech kills proleague I swear I will never watch another Gom event.
I am definitely of this mindset as well.
On September 07 2010 13:24 SkyLegenD wrote:
What KeSPA needs to do is convince Lee Myungbak to ban the sale of SC2. Then we'll see who's boss.
Heh, I suspect both sides are already readying their hardball plays.
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konadora
Singapore66160 Posts
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if proleague dies i'm dying with it.
+ Show Spoiler +kidding, of course. mostly because theres no way proleague will die. right guys? right? :<
also next power rank better have kespa and gretech at #1 and #2
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Well, after reading all of that, I think Gretech basically trying to strong arm Kespa and the BW Pro teams isn't going to work. This is Korea after all, even if Blizzard wins the lawsuit, in the end they lose a lot due to most top class pros not moving over to SC2. This is just a crap shoot, wtf does Gretech think about the teams? If they basically can't broadcast on TV, they will never gain that audience they seek. I'm sure most people whom watch BW would side with Kespa (regardless of there current actions.)
There is no way Kespa would allow Proleague to die, if this is the main argument of Gretech, Kespa won't budge and Blizzard would lose face from this mess, in there lame attempt to strong arm Kespa into removing Proleague.
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EPT
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