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How does splash change affect thor vs muta?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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1 2 3 Next All
Trav162
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
May 12 2010 16:06 GMT
#1
Hi!

This was in the patch notes "Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage. "

When playing I have seen that this has made a big difference in the thor against muta fight. Even if 2 mutas are side by side touching only the mutalisk that was shot takes damage but it still splashes if they are stacked on top of eachother in a ball.

Do you think thors are still a good mutalisk counter, did they even need the splash or was that just a good way of getting people to try them out and see they can be good anti light even without it? Or do you think this change makes no difference at all since in very large numbers they ball anyway?
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
May 12 2010 16:09 GMT
#2
Blizzard is just bracing us for the Muta micro to come.
AssuredVacancy
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1167 Posts
May 12 2010 16:27 GMT
#3
Seems to me that they still demolish mutas.
We spend our youth attaining wealth, and our wealth attaining youth.
Daedie
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium160 Posts
May 12 2010 16:29 GMT
#4
I've noticed this too, especially in a game I played yesterday, I'm hardly finding them cost effective vs muta anymore. Or you really need to be lucky to get a shot off right when they move up and clump.
I like turtles
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 16:34:53
May 12 2010 16:32 GMT
#5
isnt the only difference that they hit AT rather than IN FRONT now? also i think that the splash stays attached to the units (the thor missiles follow the target even after first missile hits) where before they kept on hitting same place = thor should be better vs moving targets now. im not sure this is how it is tho
i feel like siege tanks have become quite alot better but thors seem to be the same. they should be better than before tho

the splash is small but usually big armies like 12+mutas usually clump up in a line and u hit about 3 of them
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
deepfield1
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States373 Posts
May 12 2010 16:34 GMT
#6
On May 13 2010 01:27 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Seems to me that they still demolish mutas.


This.
Tropics
Profile Joined August 2007
United Kingdom1132 Posts
May 12 2010 16:53 GMT
#7
Well, with the new splash from the centre of the target thing that seige tanks are rocking they're far, FAR more powerful, so I don't know why it'd be any different for air. If anything I'd expect it to be even better.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
May 12 2010 16:56 GMT
#8
On May 13 2010 01:32 MorroW wrote:
isnt the only difference that they hit AT rather than IN FRONT now? also i think that the splash stays attached to the units (the thor missiles follow the target even after first missile hits) where before they kept on hitting same place = thor should be better vs moving targets now. im not sure this is how it is tho
i feel like siege tanks have become quite alot better but thors seem to be the same. they should be better than before tho

the splash is small but usually big armies like 12+mutas usually clump up in a line and u hit about 3 of them


Yes this is exactly what it means. I dunno how the OP thought this was a nerf. Previously the splash used to hit a set point wbhere the air units was at impact which would make fast units able to run from the splash in some cicrumstances. All this change did was make it so that units can't escape the splash. This is a clear buff and an improvement vs muta.
Trav162
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
May 12 2010 17:09 GMT
#9
"All this change did was make it so that units can't escape the splash. This is a clear buff and an improvement vs muta."

As far as I know the only difference is that the splash is in the middle of the unit instead of in front. When it was in front it hit more units as long as there was something in front of it and it seemed to hit units on the side of the target too. It doesnt do this when the damage is exactly in the middle of the unit.

I don't know anything about set targets and being able to dodge thor missiles in the previous patch are you sure that was even possible? because the patch notes said nothing about that. Ive seen 8 muta beat 2 thors now.
lolreaper
Profile Joined April 2010
301 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 17:11:19
May 12 2010 17:11 GMT
#10
thors are a lot worse vs mutas now
Destro
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands1206 Posts
May 12 2010 17:14 GMT
#11
played a 2v2 last night where my partner had about 35 mutas stacked ran into 2 thors and ball evaporated in seconds completely turning the game around. I don't think mutas are viable against thors unless spread.


bring back weapon of choice for hots!
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 17:18:10
May 12 2010 17:15 GMT
#12
how to attack thors with mutas (or air units)

If needed, right click to group mutas up somewhere (when outside of battle)
Let them spread out automatically
Always use Move (right click) to move not attack move. mutas should retain the spread formation
click to move next to or past the thor
once all mutas are in range to attack thor, attack it. very few will take damage from splash. if you want/have time, you can individually split them up for better damage control

If you however just attack move from afar at a thor, they'll all attack when they get in range (obviously!), which makes them all stack up in small arc and get completely owned
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
May 12 2010 17:22 GMT
#13
On May 13 2010 02:15 Zelniq wrote:
how to attack thors with mutas (or air units)

If needed, right click to group mutas up somewhere (when outside of battle)
Let them spread out automatically
Always use Move (right click) to move not attack move. mutas should retain the spread formation
click to move next to or past the thor
once all mutas are in range to attack thor, attack it. very few will take damage from splash. if you want/have time, you can individually split them up for better damage control

If you however just attack move from afar at a thor, they'll all attack when they get in range (obviously!), which makes them all stack up in small arc and get completely owned


Interesting.

I did my own tests and thors are slightly better than presplash but significantly worse from the previous patch. In larger numbers they are still quite strong vs mutas because larger armies = more clump = more splash. I did observe that if mutas are spread out so that they don't overlap there appears to be no splash at all.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
roark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States187 Posts
May 12 2010 17:24 GMT
#14
On May 13 2010 02:22 Floophead_III wrote:


Interesting.

I did my own tests and thors are slightly better than presplash but significantly worse from the previous patch. In larger numbers they are still quite strong vs mutas because larger armies = more clump = more splash. I did observe that if mutas are spread out so that they don't overlap there appears to be no splash at all.


I just did a similar test. 5 Mutas vs. 1 Thor. I found the same result, if the Mutalisks are not clumped together and spread out then they take no spash damage.

They also do not have to be far from each other, the splash radius seems very small compared to how slowly the thor fires.
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
May 12 2010 17:34 GMT
#15
I've had similar experiences with the thor as I used them pretty extensively pre-patch. For whatever reason it seems like the splash only really hits like in the example Zelniq described. I don't know if Blizzard thought they were buffing them with this change or what, but to me it definitely seems like a nerf, albeit slight. Some people are posting about being able to dodge the splash of the missiles if you flew away fast enough(??), but I never experienced that pre-patch 11. Makes me sad, Thor is my favorite unit.
roark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States187 Posts
May 12 2010 18:25 GMT
#16
Here is my answer to mutalisks. Thank god for rednecks in space!

[image loading]

Destiny
Profile Joined May 2009
United States280 Posts
May 12 2010 18:32 GMT
#17
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.
To achieve perfection is to sacrifice growth.
roark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 18:42:08
May 12 2010 18:41 GMT
#18
On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.


Several of the posters in this thread are well respected members of the community, and thought of as excellent players.

No one is crying nerf, they are discussing the changes to the way splash damage is calculated for air units. Specifically Thor vs. Mutalisk.

The new patch makes it much easier to dodge splash if you are moving, or spread out. That is what they have found.
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 18:57:49
May 12 2010 18:56 GMT
#19
On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.


Troll much?



I too have noticed that Thors are much much worse against air compared to the previous patch. The new splash change doesn't seem to have been implemented correctly.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
May 12 2010 18:58 GMT
#20
On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.


good cause you wont' be able to post in it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
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