• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:24
CEST 00:24
KST 07:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off6[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax5Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris30Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : A Eulogy for the Six Pool Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
No Rain in ASL20? BW General Discussion Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group E [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group D [ASL20] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3450 users

How does splash change affect thor vs muta?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Trav162
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
May 12 2010 16:06 GMT
#1
Hi!

This was in the patch notes "Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage. "

When playing I have seen that this has made a big difference in the thor against muta fight. Even if 2 mutas are side by side touching only the mutalisk that was shot takes damage but it still splashes if they are stacked on top of eachother in a ball.

Do you think thors are still a good mutalisk counter, did they even need the splash or was that just a good way of getting people to try them out and see they can be good anti light even without it? Or do you think this change makes no difference at all since in very large numbers they ball anyway?
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
May 12 2010 16:09 GMT
#2
Blizzard is just bracing us for the Muta micro to come.
AssuredVacancy
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1167 Posts
May 12 2010 16:27 GMT
#3
Seems to me that they still demolish mutas.
We spend our youth attaining wealth, and our wealth attaining youth.
Daedie
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium160 Posts
May 12 2010 16:29 GMT
#4
I've noticed this too, especially in a game I played yesterday, I'm hardly finding them cost effective vs muta anymore. Or you really need to be lucky to get a shot off right when they move up and clump.
I like turtles
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 16:34:53
May 12 2010 16:32 GMT
#5
isnt the only difference that they hit AT rather than IN FRONT now? also i think that the splash stays attached to the units (the thor missiles follow the target even after first missile hits) where before they kept on hitting same place = thor should be better vs moving targets now. im not sure this is how it is tho
i feel like siege tanks have become quite alot better but thors seem to be the same. they should be better than before tho

the splash is small but usually big armies like 12+mutas usually clump up in a line and u hit about 3 of them
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
deepfield1
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States373 Posts
May 12 2010 16:34 GMT
#6
On May 13 2010 01:27 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Seems to me that they still demolish mutas.


This.
Tropics
Profile Joined August 2007
United Kingdom1132 Posts
May 12 2010 16:53 GMT
#7
Well, with the new splash from the centre of the target thing that seige tanks are rocking they're far, FAR more powerful, so I don't know why it'd be any different for air. If anything I'd expect it to be even better.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
May 12 2010 16:56 GMT
#8
On May 13 2010 01:32 MorroW wrote:
isnt the only difference that they hit AT rather than IN FRONT now? also i think that the splash stays attached to the units (the thor missiles follow the target even after first missile hits) where before they kept on hitting same place = thor should be better vs moving targets now. im not sure this is how it is tho
i feel like siege tanks have become quite alot better but thors seem to be the same. they should be better than before tho

the splash is small but usually big armies like 12+mutas usually clump up in a line and u hit about 3 of them


Yes this is exactly what it means. I dunno how the OP thought this was a nerf. Previously the splash used to hit a set point wbhere the air units was at impact which would make fast units able to run from the splash in some cicrumstances. All this change did was make it so that units can't escape the splash. This is a clear buff and an improvement vs muta.
Trav162
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
May 12 2010 17:09 GMT
#9
"All this change did was make it so that units can't escape the splash. This is a clear buff and an improvement vs muta."

As far as I know the only difference is that the splash is in the middle of the unit instead of in front. When it was in front it hit more units as long as there was something in front of it and it seemed to hit units on the side of the target too. It doesnt do this when the damage is exactly in the middle of the unit.

I don't know anything about set targets and being able to dodge thor missiles in the previous patch are you sure that was even possible? because the patch notes said nothing about that. Ive seen 8 muta beat 2 thors now.
lolreaper
Profile Joined April 2010
301 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 17:11:19
May 12 2010 17:11 GMT
#10
thors are a lot worse vs mutas now
Destro
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands1206 Posts
May 12 2010 17:14 GMT
#11
played a 2v2 last night where my partner had about 35 mutas stacked ran into 2 thors and ball evaporated in seconds completely turning the game around. I don't think mutas are viable against thors unless spread.


bring back weapon of choice for hots!
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 17:18:10
May 12 2010 17:15 GMT
#12
how to attack thors with mutas (or air units)

If needed, right click to group mutas up somewhere (when outside of battle)
Let them spread out automatically
Always use Move (right click) to move not attack move. mutas should retain the spread formation
click to move next to or past the thor
once all mutas are in range to attack thor, attack it. very few will take damage from splash. if you want/have time, you can individually split them up for better damage control

If you however just attack move from afar at a thor, they'll all attack when they get in range (obviously!), which makes them all stack up in small arc and get completely owned
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
May 12 2010 17:22 GMT
#13
On May 13 2010 02:15 Zelniq wrote:
how to attack thors with mutas (or air units)

If needed, right click to group mutas up somewhere (when outside of battle)
Let them spread out automatically
Always use Move (right click) to move not attack move. mutas should retain the spread formation
click to move next to or past the thor
once all mutas are in range to attack thor, attack it. very few will take damage from splash. if you want/have time, you can individually split them up for better damage control

If you however just attack move from afar at a thor, they'll all attack when they get in range (obviously!), which makes them all stack up in small arc and get completely owned


Interesting.

I did my own tests and thors are slightly better than presplash but significantly worse from the previous patch. In larger numbers they are still quite strong vs mutas because larger armies = more clump = more splash. I did observe that if mutas are spread out so that they don't overlap there appears to be no splash at all.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
roark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States187 Posts
May 12 2010 17:24 GMT
#14
On May 13 2010 02:22 Floophead_III wrote:


Interesting.

I did my own tests and thors are slightly better than presplash but significantly worse from the previous patch. In larger numbers they are still quite strong vs mutas because larger armies = more clump = more splash. I did observe that if mutas are spread out so that they don't overlap there appears to be no splash at all.


I just did a similar test. 5 Mutas vs. 1 Thor. I found the same result, if the Mutalisks are not clumped together and spread out then they take no spash damage.

They also do not have to be far from each other, the splash radius seems very small compared to how slowly the thor fires.
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
May 12 2010 17:34 GMT
#15
I've had similar experiences with the thor as I used them pretty extensively pre-patch. For whatever reason it seems like the splash only really hits like in the example Zelniq described. I don't know if Blizzard thought they were buffing them with this change or what, but to me it definitely seems like a nerf, albeit slight. Some people are posting about being able to dodge the splash of the missiles if you flew away fast enough(??), but I never experienced that pre-patch 11. Makes me sad, Thor is my favorite unit.
roark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States187 Posts
May 12 2010 18:25 GMT
#16
Here is my answer to mutalisks. Thank god for rednecks in space!

[image loading]

Destiny
Profile Joined May 2009
United States280 Posts
May 12 2010 18:32 GMT
#17
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.
To achieve perfection is to sacrifice growth.
roark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 18:42:08
May 12 2010 18:41 GMT
#18
On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.


Several of the posters in this thread are well respected members of the community, and thought of as excellent players.

No one is crying nerf, they are discussing the changes to the way splash damage is calculated for air units. Specifically Thor vs. Mutalisk.

The new patch makes it much easier to dodge splash if you are moving, or spread out. That is what they have found.
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 18:57:49
May 12 2010 18:56 GMT
#19
On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.


Troll much?



I too have noticed that Thors are much much worse against air compared to the previous patch. The new splash change doesn't seem to have been implemented correctly.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
May 12 2010 18:58 GMT
#20
On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.

Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.


good cause you wont' be able to post in it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 110
ProTech94
JuggernautJason77
CosmosSc2 55
NeuroSwarm 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 435
NaDa 34
Dota 2
capcasts245
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K755
flusha261
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe65
PPMD27
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu447
Other Games
summit1g6158
Grubby2963
shahzam869
ViBE195
Pyrionflax180
C9.Mang0146
ZombieGrub47
Maynarde31
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 26
Other Games
BasetradeTV18
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 38
• musti20045 37
• davetesta9
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 6
• HerbMon 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22631
League of Legends
• TFBlade750
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie1158
• Shiphtur220
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
1h 37m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 37m
hero vs Alone
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 11h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
2 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
3 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
3 days
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3 days
SC Evo League
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 3
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.