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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
So what I would really want to know is: What is it good against? When should I do it? What kind of maps/positions does it work on? How do I do it? (Obviously I build a factory instead of tech after my CC, but when do I move out etc, and do I build a 3rd factory aswell if it looks like it is working?) Any input is appreciated. | ||
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ZeKk
Sweden320 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
You build the second fact around the time you usually place your e-bay (a bit earlier. e-bay is usually at aroud 5:00). Move out when you have 2 tanks and rally vults. I haven't played against it that much, so I can't say what works and what doesn't. I'm pretty sure it comes before river even if P is going straight for shuttle --> river. P can't get dt's out on time if he went nex --> dt tech. And yeah, it's dificult to hold if you go gate - robo - expo. My knowledge on the subject is lacking, so I would be interested to hear a better player's thought too.  | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
And yeah, I read IdrAs post, however it isn't nessecarily self-explanatory for alot of terrans how to "kill them". | ||
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On February 13 2010 00:09 ZeKk wrote: I quote from idra"if you see 1 gate exp or 1 gate robo exp go fac cc fac and kill them.". Taken from "tvp moonglaive thread". this is true also if u manage to scout 3rd nex off of 1 gateway u can also do this 3tank push if u graded siege and 5tank if u skipped siege, very strong bo. many gamers for example gosi terran r doing this bo without even scouting what toss does which is concidered cheesy and allin but so far he has gotten away with it vs estro b team matches and tsl. i think tosses r starting to become too economical so some terrans play abusive which is pretty new :p | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
Here are a few other examples. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/11923_Anytime_vs_fantasy (doesn't work here) | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
For example, did IdrA see anything in particular that made him do this build vs NonY on Outsider, or was it because of the short distance of outsider? | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
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nozaro33
Taiwan1819 Posts
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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shinjin
United States398 Posts
Im more of a novice, so i can't really tell 1-2 gates by early goon count...and say he leaves half his goons at his natural and half in front of your nat to stop any scouting..how would you know if he added on a quick gateway right after his expansion, or does this build still counter that, does its timing come before reavers? DTs? Also another question, when do you usually send your 2nd scv scout? | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
Light also tried a version versus Snow: He got destroyed. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
In Flash versus Stork, Stork trades all of his dragoons for 2 of Flash's tanks. Stork, knowing that he has to cheat something to catch up, only has 2 dragoons when Flash attacks with the remainder of his units. In Light versus Snow, Light did not check to make sure Snow was on 2 gateways. He saw Snow making a move to expand, but Snow saw Light's forces, and added more gateways and units. Light also did not cut turrets, and got destroyed in the middle. Flash did it against Jangbi; I watched the game but I can't remember what happened, and no VOD is up. I do remember Jangbi losing to a timing push and thinking that Jangbi was somewhat close to breaking out. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
Things to note: 1) As Ver said, Barracks from high ground to low group. Helps against losing tanks I guess, which are very important damage dealers later on 2) Unit combos. Vults/Marines/SCVs soak dragoon fire. Tanks/Marines deal damage to dragoons. It makes microing against this combo really hard. 3) Bisu even scouted it and everything. He tried to go DTs, which are probably a counter because you have dragoons/obs to mindsweep and DTs can hold back the push. They're probably about even had Bisu held off the push. The fact that the DTs came so late probably means Bisu misjudged and was caught off guard. 4) SCVs were cut in this build. Less turrets were built too. Flash always mined around his min lines to make DT and Reaver counters harder. 5) [Non-VOD specific] Most (if not all) Protoss players went Zeal first. I have no idea whether it makes it a higher percentage build or what. I don't play very much Zeal first so I have no idea what it means. Sorry for breaking this into 3 posts I feel it makes it much clearer and more organized this way. | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
On February 24 2010 18:46 thunk wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'm just going to write in this thread, although both threads are valid places to write this. The other thread is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113456 Light also tried a version versus Snow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfhSzsG0Rg&feature=player_embedded He got destroyed. The topic is about Fact CC Fact. Light did something diffrent. Fact CC E-bay Fact. It was still a push of 2 factories, but it was diffrent. + Snow grabed his 3rd of 4 gates. That's very safe. It was only natural that he would crush Light's push. And No, I have no idea what Light was doing. This kind of push cross positions on FS? idk | ||
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
Sorry but that is the build every terran goes -_- Yes I know there are variations and people are always building armories and starports and academies and ebays but come on.... Elusive fact cc fact  ? | ||
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wut_wut3
United States221 Posts
On February 24 2010 19:14 thunk wrote: 5) [Non-VOD specific] Most (if not all) Protoss players went Zeal first. I have no idea whether it makes it a higher percentage build or what. I don't play very much Zeal first so I have no idea what it means. i always thought they made the zealot if the protoss had not scouted the terran yet, or if they scouted that the terran had no walled in. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On February 25 2010 00:38 Reason wrote: Elusive fact cc fact lol? Sorry but that is the build every terran goes -_- Yes I know there are variations and people are always building armories and starports and academies and ebays but come on.... Elusive fact cc fact ?This is about a specific timing push that Flash has been using to kill off top PvT'ers within 10 minutes. | ||
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