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On July 22 2011 12:41 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games In MLG you took a map off of Losira, then lost 0-2 to Select, ending up 22nd in the tournament. In the same tournament, machine only managed to win 2 matches, going 2-0 against you and 2-1 against major, then losing to TLO, haypro and losira. Placed 15th in the tournament. In terms of the non-korean scene, you both do very well. However, Puma is not the sort of player who should even be grouped in the same category. After having such a remarkable run in the NASL, he is clearly a world class player, and there is a gigantic, obvious gap between him and the rest of EG. A 22nd and 15th place finish are downright impossible for someone like him. My point wasn't to bash you, but instead to make it clear that he is taking a huge blow to his training capabilities if he ends up at the EG house. However, I'd imagine that you and Idra wouldn't want that to happen, since you have both made it clear in various interviews that what they have in Korea leads to better players. And since EG recruited him based on results, I'd imagine you guys would want to keep it that way...
On WeaponOfChoice tonight, Alex (exec of EG) mentioned there was some "infrastructure" in place to support the development of Puma.... no announcement of what exactly that is atm, but it definitely didn't seem like they'd want him developing the rest of EG, while leaving his own training behind.
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On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life.
What lies.
And what does it change if its ur life or not.
Results speak for themselves lol
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On July 22 2011 12:32 Vexas wrote:
To DjWheat: Still support and love you. Don't listen to most of this negativity. Couldn't be helped and sorry all this rage is being dumped on you.
Keep up all the good things man. You are an amazing and HUGE part of the SC2 community.
Gl and Hf!
All the rage is dumped on him because of he deserves it. It's his inexperience in the situation that made him receive such hate. If he had the experience of moderating such a heated topic then this would of never happened. And if he doesn't listen to the negativity, he'll think he did a good job which he did quite the opposite of.
Every host of a show has to have some pivotal moment in their career where they just balls it all up, and this is wheat's, if he learns from it then that's great for him and his career in hosting such shows.
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On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life.
I apologize for getting my facts wrong, but the conclusion remains true that you have not come any where close to the results that the Koreans such as Puma have. And its not like its some freak accident caused by crappy brackets. There are massive differences in tournament performances.
And if lies are such a soft spot for you, perhaps you should pay attention to Alex lying to the entire SC2 community on Weapon of Choice:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ErXIG.png)
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djWHEAT, the hate is unwarranted. You don't have a duty to 'moderate' an argument on YOUR show that you didn't even expect!
Keep up the awesome work!
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^ to be fair, the journalism part, I felt was Alex being just being a PR person, not somebody trying to spin EG's word.
PR people can sometimes get really messed up when they believe somebody is doing their job incorrectly and it affects them and their PR message.
That part, it wasn't EG being wrong. It was Alex being wrong
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On July 22 2011 12:55 EtohEtoh wrote:
^ to be fair, the journalism part, I felt was Alex being just being a PR person, not somebody trying to spin EG's word.
PR people can sometimes get really messed up when they believe somebody is doing their job incorrectly and it affects them and their PR message.
That part, it wasn't EG being wrong. It was Alex being wrong
No no. It was EG being wrong. Alex is from EG, he was the Representative of EG in that show.
You can't seperate now Alex from EG LOL
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On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life.
How dare you. What gives you the right to assume people here aren't as passionate about Esports as you, and that it isn't as much a part of their lives?
Your ignorance is disgusting, and this is coming from a long time fan of your work. This entitled attitude that you and some of the members of your team seem to sport is what created this mess in the first place, and instead of taking steps towards resolution you make broad offensive sweeping statements.
InControl, your better then this man.
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On July 22 2011 12:39 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:33 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games Wat? From liquipedia. 11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss 11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss I don't think he meant literally literally. He has beating top Koreans and lost to top Koreans. MLG Columbus is a good example.
That's true, don't be hard on the guy. Don't you guys remember when he managed to take a game off of Losira when Losira's keyboard went kaput? He also made it clear that Losira was very much so a douchebag for having this unfortunate event happen to him during game.
Give iNcontroL some slack!
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On July 22 2011 12:59 DirtYLOu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:55 EtohEtoh wrote:
^ to be fair, the journalism part, I felt was Alex being just being a PR person, not somebody trying to spin EG's word.
PR people can sometimes get really messed up when they believe somebody is doing their job incorrectly and it affects them and their PR message.
That part, it wasn't EG being wrong. It was Alex being wrong No no. It was EG being wrong. Alex is from EG, he was the Representative of EG in that show. You can't seperate now Alex from EG LOL
you can seperate the message that SirScoots wanted to give and the message Alex gave, maybe Scoots said, hey let's make EG look good, legitamate, and make us look like we're expanding ESPORTS,
Scoots definetely did not tell Alex to the go and attack Milkis and fuck up everything else he said
but you're right, they said at the beginning that Alex was Creative director, or something of the sort.
and to that I say he's doing too many jobs at once, or it's just a fancy way of saying PR guy
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On July 22 2011 13:02 Shizel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life. How dare you. What gives you the right to assume people here aren't as passionate about Esports as you, and that it isn't as much a part of their lives? Your ignorance is disgusting, and this is coming from a long time fan of your work. This entitled attitude that you and some of the members of your team seem to sport is what created this mess in the first place, and instead of taking steps towards resolution you make broad offensive sweeping statements. InControl, your better then this man.
LOL seriously. he was saying this is his life. AS IN THIS IS WHAT HE DOES FOR A LIVING. If your an accountant, and i go spreading lies your a terrible accountant, your going to correct me and get pissed right?
Thats all he did here, people need to stop blowing things iNc says out of proportion. jesus.
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On July 22 2011 13:08 EtohEtoh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:59 DirtYLOu wrote:On July 22 2011 12:55 EtohEtoh wrote:
^ to be fair, the journalism part, I felt was Alex being just being a PR person, not somebody trying to spin EG's word.
PR people can sometimes get really messed up when they believe somebody is doing their job incorrectly and it affects them and their PR message.
That part, it wasn't EG being wrong. It was Alex being wrong No no. It was EG being wrong. Alex is from EG, he was the Representative of EG in that show. You can't seperate now Alex from EG LOL you can seperate the message that SirScoots wanted to give and the message Alex gave, maybe Scoots said, hey let's make EG look good, legitamate, and make us look like we're expanding ESPORTS, Scoots definetely did not tell Alex to the go and attack Milkis and fuck up everything else he said but you're right, they said at the beginning that Alex was Creative director, or something of the sort. and to that I say he's doing too many jobs at once, or it's just a fancy way of saying PR guy
Don't give in guys. The goal here is to make everyone hate on Alex so much they completely forget about EG.
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On July 22 2011 13:02 Shizel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life. How dare you. What gives you the right to assume people here aren't as passionate about Esports as you, and that it isn't as much a part of their lives? Your ignorance is disgusting, and this is coming from a long time fan of your work. This entitled attitude that you and some of the members of your team seem to sport is what created this mess in the first place, and instead of taking steps towards resolution you make broad offensive sweeping statements. InControl, your better then this man.
Your income and livelihood don't depend on this game. His does. Hes not talking about passion, hes talking about a career.
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On July 22 2011 13:02 Shizel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life. How dare you. What gives you the right to assume people here aren't as passionate about Esports as you, and that it isn't as much a part of their lives?
Oh I dunno. Maybe the fact that he feeds and houses himself solely off of his performance as a Starcraft player while most people here do not.
Not quite sure though. That might be it...maybe...
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On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life.
Fair enough but i would have though you would care more about a shitstorm developing around your team than some random chump shit talking about what games youve won
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On July 22 2011 12:55 EtohEtoh wrote:
^ to be fair, the journalism part, I felt was Alex being just being a PR person, not somebody trying to spin EG's word.
PR people can sometimes get really messed up when they believe somebody is doing their job incorrectly and it affects them and their PR message.
That part, it wasn't EG being wrong. It was Alex being wrong
To be fair to PR guys, Alex came of as a CEO. People working in PR would not handle the situation like that.
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On July 22 2011 13:04 fer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:39 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On July 22 2011 12:33 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games Wat? From liquipedia. 11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss 11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss I don't think he meant literally literally. He has beating top Koreans and lost to top Koreans. MLG Columbus is a good example. That's true, don't be hard on the guy. Don't you guys remember when he managed to take a game off of Losira when Losira's keyboard went kaput? He also made it clear that Losira was very much so a douchebag for having this unfortunate event happen to him during game. Give iNcontroL some slack!
Again lies, iNc said he was annoyed at the fact that losira was like "yea my keyboard broke but it was still easy" sorta attitude, he wasnt upset at losira for his keyboard breaking.
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On July 22 2011 13:10 SMD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:04 fer wrote:On July 22 2011 12:39 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On July 22 2011 12:33 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:
[quote]
I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please.
Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games Wat? From liquipedia. 11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss 11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss I don't think he meant literally literally. He has beating top Koreans and lost to top Koreans. MLG Columbus is a good example. That's true, don't be hard on the guy. Don't you guys remember when he managed to take a game off of Losira when Losira's keyboard went kaput? He also made it clear that Losira was very much so a douchebag for having this unfortunate event happen to him during game. Give iNcontroL some slack! Again lies, iNc said he was annoyed at the fact that losira was like "yea my keyboard broke but it was still easy" sorta attitude, he wasnt upset at losira for his keyboard breaking.
dude Losira almost beat inc with mouse only wtf u are talking about T_T
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On July 22 2011 13:02 Shizel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life. How dare you. What gives you the right to assume people here aren't as passionate about Esports as you, and that it isn't as much a part of their lives? Your ignorance is disgusting, and this is coming from a long time fan of your work. This entitled attitude that you and some of the members of your team seem to sport is what created this mess in the first place, and instead of taking steps towards resolution you make broad offensive sweeping statements. InControl, your better then this man.
This is such a dumb post. This game is his life, as he makes the money that he needs to live from it. Regardless of your "passion for the game" you do not use this game to make a living. You would realize this if you (and a ton of other people in this topic) weren't just snap hating everything EG because of this.
There is no mess that needs cleaning. I don't get why you people are treating this like EG killed someone. They signed a player who was not signed. Puma is getting paid money that he deserves as a player, that is all.
Is Puma better than anyone on EG? Maybe yes. Maybe no.
Were the players in EG (and a lot of other teams outside of Korea) being paid a LOT more than Puma before this deal? Yes.
Puma deserves the money that EG can give them and TSL was not willing to give. He saw an business opportunity, and he took it. All you people talking about loyalty and things of the sort need to stop being childish. Loyalty does not put food on the table, money does. I guarantee any of you would have jumped at this opportunity if given the chance.
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On July 22 2011 12:43 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life.
i lvoe when progamers talk down to the entire community...makes me feel all warm and cozzy inside...kind of reminds me of lebron.
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EPT
