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On April 30 2010 04:55 semantics wrote:
I'm not really feeling divisions system as really i'm in division 138 of gold wow i feel so accomplished imange when the game is released and it shoots up into like division 789 kind of defeats the purpose of creating the illusion that you are moving up in rank.
The divisions are not ranked. Division 138 is no better than Division 789.
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On April 30 2010 04:59 guitarizt wrote:
Plat has been getting more and more watered down with each new invite wave. It'll keep getting worse as more and more people join. I don't think there's anyone who likes the division system.
I guess you are the voice of everyone... Good to know. It is a split decision on who likes it and who doesn't.
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Edit: Oops. Accidentally quoted my post instead of editting it.
Please delete this.
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why does the league matter when there's ELO ?
the high ELO plays in platinum gets to play other good players, that's all that matters.
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On April 30 2010 02:57 Day[9] wrote:
Oh wow I forgot half my point,
So, I think the division system is completely reasonable right now. I have a friend who, honestly, is completely horrendous at RTS games. He was put into the copper division. However, there, he has great competition! It's amazing how often he messages me excited that he played a really epic, awesome, rewarding game. So, I'm curious if the silver/gold/bronze leaguers have a similar experience too!
In response to this, here's my story:
I was given access to an extra account of my friend's right after the most recent reset: because I suck, I got placed into Silver. Silver seemed to be right around my skill level - I was averaging around rank 20-ish, and having decently rewarding games, and was having fun.
Then, after the most recent wave of invites, I was finally given my own betakey, and ran through the placement matches again: I went 4-1, 2 of those wins came from people who disconnected 5 minutes in, so I got placed into gold.
Gold is definitely way way above my skill level for the most part, I'm ranked 85/100 last I checked. However, despite losing most of my games, I'm having a lot more fun. The games tend to be way way more epic and more exciting, whether because of the higher skill level or because I've just had some very lucky games. I'm also watching my replays, and noticing exactly what I'm doing wrong, and learning a lot more about my game and ways to improve it.
As an example of a great game I recently played: it was me as T vs a Z opponent on Incineration Zone. I opened up going standard OC opening, planning to transition into banshee play. He chose to go for a LOT of banelings backed up by some roaches and hydras, and went the backdoor route. Like a fool, I failed to notice the backdoor until the rocks fell and about 24 banelings sacked my main's OC and a ton of supply depots. Fortunately, I had expanded and was mining well off an extra base, so after I cleared out my main, I chose to go Marine + a few tanks for support + LOTS of banshees, and started running around sniping drones with the banshees while keeping him occupied with the marines and tanks. This continued for a while until he finally managed to gather enough forces to raze my expansion (even with the harass, he was gathering way more resources than I was). I had rebuilt my CC in my main, but was pretty much mined out, and when my nat went down most of my SCVs did too. I killed off the force he'd sent and figured, well, it's now or never, so I took the rest of my forces (about 30 rines, 2 medivacs, 3 tanks, and roughly 8-12 banshees) and rolled down the backdoor route directly into his main.
Banelings took out about half the marines right off the bat, but the rest stimmed and managed to snipe all the hydras he had left, meaning that my banshees killed his roaches while they were occupied with the rest of my marines and the tanks. I then proceeded to raze his main while he took what few hydras he had left and threw them blindly at the cloaked banshees. I killed most of them before he got an overseer there, and I had critical mass so the rest of the hydras couldn't do anything. Unfortunately, he had chosen to put his most important tech (hydra den + hive) at his nat, so I moved over to kill it quickly before he could get defenses up.
I knocked the hive down to half health, but my biggest blunder of the game was failing to notice the 4 sporecrawlers morphing directly under my banshees. When I finally noticed them, I tried to focus them down, but then finally had to run away with only 4 banshees remaining. However, he was pretty much out of drones by this point, but to balance that out I had 3 SCVs left mining off of 2 nearly-empty mineral patches and 1 gas.
He then used the last of his resources to pull together one last small army, while I madly built as many marines and tanks as I could (which wasn't very many) and brought the banshees back. The final battle took place at the backdoor ramp to my main, and I finally ran out of forces while he still had about half of his mixed roach-hydra force left. GG.
So that's an example of the games I've been having recently. Have I been losing a lot? Yes, but it's been so much fun, I haven't really cared. Will I get demoted to Silver? Probably, but I'm enjoying it while it lasts 
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On April 30 2010 04:37 Hafriken wrote:
Platinum is not the top 20%, it doesnt even have as many divisions as any other leagues.
how do you know how many platinum leagues there are in comparison to other leagues? i know there are at least 77 platinum divisions(probably more), that seems like a hell of a lot of divisions considering blizzard has said they want about 15000 active players.
If there was an even distribution among leagues, that would mean there are at LEAST (7700 * 5) = 38500 players registered for the beta that have done their qualifiers in the 2 weeks since they reset. that is a huge number of players, particularly because its just on one continent.
i suppose it could be feasible that there are almost 40k beta keys out in NA alone, but that number seems really high to me. but the point is it doesnt make sense for each league to have an even distribution of players, imo it should be more like a bell curve.
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I like the idea of placement matches, but I don't think you should immediately be able to hop into platinum. Like you should at best be put into gold, then work your way into platinum. Then hopefully platinum would be less of a joke. Also I agree on percentage based. Here is how I think the leagues should be divided, with the specific percent of players in each.
Plat = 10%
Gold = 15%
Silver = 20%
Bronze = 25%
Copper = 30%
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I think it's fine. TL's view is skewed because if you come to TL you're almost certainly in the top 10% of all players. 90% of TL should be in platinum and 90% of TL is.
I have no data to support this, but my guess is that the distribution of players between leagues is pretty even (so copper has approximately the same number of people as platinum). I think this is much more reasonable than making the leagues bottom-heavy (like ICCUP, for example, where half of everyone is D) which is what you'd be doing if you want more differentiation at the top.
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The system seems ok to me. I agree with Day[9]'s posts.
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I have no drive to ladder with the current system, in WC3 I had this huge list of the top 1000. If I was stuck at the bottom I had this huge drive to improve to get into a high rank. With the SC2 system, I'm part of a division with only 90 players. Even though plat is the highest division, there are so many of them, laddering for a high rank, in my one small division is just unappealing to me.
I just play with people from the practice partner thread, more fun than most games I get on ladder and I just have no ambition to ladder.
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Platinum is the new D.
I would like to see a cap on the number of platinum divisions and thus players upon release but until then I'll just take free points off of platinum rank 50s 
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The divisions are not ranked. Division 138 is no better than Division 789.
A high ELO is harder to achieve in the newer divisions because of the way AMM works. In division 61, when I was 1100/#4 in the div, I was paired against Win 3 times in a row, who was 1850, number 2 in division 9. That imbalance is lessened over time, but it still remains significant.
Also... while the divisions are directly ranked some are obviously harder to get to the top of because of the non-random way players are placed into divisions. Earlier divisions on average tend to be populated by more of the better players. If you can't figure out why, its not really my problem, but there it is.
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5/5 win people should be placed in platinum but blizz should add a diamond league, you shouldnt be able to get in that diamond league with 100% win in placement match, you should be able to get in the diamond league only from the platinum league first...
its an idea plz dont hate...
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i personally was shocked at how easy it was to get into platinum. i didn't follow SC2 at all before getting my beta key (to the point where i was shocked to find out during a game that lurkers no longer existed) and was even scared at first to participate in placement matches for fear of getting placed in copper.
then i went like 8-0 in my first 8 games doing some reaper rush shit a friend told me of. of course 5 of those games were placement matches but the last 3 were against other plat players. im currently top 20 in my division with under a week total of sc2 experience. though i hate to admit it, i was not that great a BW player. there is something wrong with the division making system.
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On April 30 2010 05:22 Klapdout wrote:
I have no drive to ladder with the current system, in WC3 I had this huge list of the top 1000. If I was stuck at the bottom I had this huge drive to improve to get into a high rank. With the SC2 system, I'm part of a division with only 90 players. Even though plat is the highest division, there are so many of them, laddering for a high rank, in my one small division is just unappealing to me.
I just play with people from the practice partner thread, more fun than most games I get on ladder and I just have no ambition to ladder.
i think this is an important point to make. once you get to plat, you know you cant move anywhere else, theres less drive to keep playing, even if you do get to the top of your division, you have no reference to anyone else outside your division, so theres no way to judge your skill among all players.
I think it would be really cool if division 1 was higher than division 2, etc. so you get placed in division 30, you know you can still move up, and where you are relative to the rest of all players.
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I would love to see a proleague implemented into the release version of SC2. I know blizzard has said this was a possibility already, but does anyone know if they said it would be regional or worldwide?
Also, I'm indecisive about whether or not blizzard should re-examine the league distribution. SC2 is really the first rts I've played seriously. I went into the beta knowing nothing but build orders I learned watching streams and ended up being placed in gold. I worked hard and played a lot and was eventually placed in platinum, but I felt, and still feel, like I'm not nearly as good as a lot of other players out there. I guess what I'm saying is I feel like ATM platinum is for players who know what they're doing in the game in terms of bos, counters, etc. Not everyone is amazing, but we all know what's going on for the most part.
Perhaps blizz will change league distribution percentages when the game is actually released and more people are familiar with the game.
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On April 30 2010 02:14 Chill wrote:
I think people don't realize how hard it is to be good at RTS. This is no different than BW. Like I would be playing at B- making my usual mistakes and people would be shocked how bad I am, even if 99% of the viewers can't do it. It's the same here; running #1 in platinum, but being shockingly bad at the game.
I totally agree. You really do see the difference between silver and copper if you are at that level. As the newbies learn the ranks will scale upwards, that's how it worked with BW ladders.
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On April 30 2010 05:15 daywiss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2010 04:37 Hafriken wrote:
Platinum is not the top 20%, it doesnt even have as many divisions as any other leagues. how do you know how many platinum leagues there are in comparison to other leagues? i know there are at least 77 platinum divisions(probably more), that seems like a hell of a lot of divisions considering blizzard has said they want about 15000 active players. If there was an even distribution among leagues, that would mean there are at LEAST (7700 * 5) = 38500 players registered for the beta that have done their qualifiers in the 2 weeks since they reset. that is a huge number of players, particularly because its just on one continent. i suppose it could be feasible that there are almost 40k beta keys out in NA alone, but that number seems really high to me. but the point is it doesnt make sense for each league to have an even distribution of players, imo it should be more like a bell curve.
There are 100+ divisions in all of the others.
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Well I guess just because I'm a nerd I'd like to see more metals make the cut to add more leagues. Or maybe start branching into precious stones above platinum. The only limit is if it becomes too confusing to tell one league from another.. There's no question that platinum has a better connotation than gold even if you don't know the ranks, but where would titanium fit? Scandium? Carbon fiber league?
Or nanotubes. They're the future Can you imagine being in the Nanotube league? Friggin' pimp.
Without a clear and easy view of progression it will get confusing real quick. ICCup's letters were simple and powerful at explaining who holds the higher rank. But darnit they are boring!
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This thread is everyone either sharing an uninteresting anecdote about how they're wrecking crappy platinum players or flaunting weird blade55555 dragonkiller69 elitism.
The ladder system has issues. Blizzard's said it in every Q&A. On top of that, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, people just aren't that good at the game yet. It's interesting this is even being discussed before the release of the game. Already all this posturing and shoulder bolding.
The best idea I've heard mentioned is to make a league in which you don't place, but get into by dominating your platinum division. But people will complain about that, too, since these dominating players are beating the "crappy" players from their platinum division, who beat those "crappy" people from gold, and so on down the line. The only way the ladder, with its current system, will satisfy the better players who want to play against equal skill levels is either a) people come remarkably better at the game or b) rising and falling on the ladder is concerned with more than just wins/losses, having an intelligent A.I. that interprets your in-game data.
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EPT
