EPTTL Mafia LI - Page 84
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: My bad, you actually did vote/say you were more on the VE wagon before the claim. But you didn't really state why you thought he was scummy other than you agree with Toads case, which now you are saying is terrible. Why the change of heart? What the fuck? I never said I agreed with Toad's case, I just said I thought he was right about his conclusion (that VE was scum) My reasoning for calling VE scum was completely independent of Toad's reasoning. If my reasoning was the same I'd be calling gonzaw scum too, but you don't see me doing that, do you? Here is what you said, first person after toads big ole Pony post. On April 12 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: Why was his case convincing then, but now its absolutely terrible? I didn't find his case convincing. I said he might be right because I was in the process of rereading at the time and I found VE suspicious myself. In fact when I wrote that post I don't even think I had read Toad's case, I just saw the conclusion (that VE+gonzaw were scum.) I ignored the gonzaw part because I thought he was wrong there. On April 12 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: Also why was this response not up to your standards, he didn't dodge your question as I think you mentioned. He told you his reasoning. Assuming his DT claim is true, this stuff above is just made up so he doesn't have to claim. But at that point how wasn't it legit to you. Yes he did. Look at it more carefully, I broke it down already once. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't... This is not a reason to call someone scum. That would be like Toad saying gonzaw is scum because he thinks gonzaw is scum and I don't. How the fuck does that make gonzaw scum? (replace Toad with VE and gonzaw with Toad) On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote: his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. This is not a reason for Toad being scum, VE just says he's clearly scum without explaining why. Again, not an answer. Heck, the reasoning for killing him (to find out info about me) is equally absurd; if anyone wanted to find out info about me they'd try to kill me, not Toad. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote: While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity. That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. That part doesn't even make sense. It's more of "this guy looks town and this guy looks scum" without explaining anything at all. No whys, just whats. On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. OMGUS isn't exclusively a scum trait, town do it all the time. Hell, I'd venture to say that town do it even more often than scum do. Now that I've broken it down a SECOND time, JUST for you, do you understand now? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On April 11 2012 15:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Well for one, I think he's scum and you don't...his flip will give me information about you because I think he's VERY CLEARLY scum, and you lived today. While it's true that his flip doesn't say anything concrete about your alignment, it would explain why we're of one mind about Hassybaby and not Toad, when Hassybaby actually looks more town and Toad actually looks more scum after the night activity. That's the PRIMARY reason, if you want to get down to brass tacks bugs. Secondly, I'm more confident that Toad will flip scum now especially given his OMGUS reaction to my vote on him today...so in spite of me saying that I could be convinced to switch to Hassy earlier, you can pretty much seal that with a kiss and send it home to mama. What I meant by this post (I'm assuming this is the post) is that because you're so blind to Toad right now, flipping him and seeing what you do when he flips is going to tell me more about your alignment. More than any other single person in this thread Bugs. AND YOU LIVED! If I'm not scum and you're not scum, who the fuck is LEADING this scum team that sniped seventeen blues on N1? Not Jackal, he ded. So like...who? Toad? BH? WHO? Watching you react to Toad flipping when you've been defending him most of the game is going to be more telling to me than any other single EVENT that COULD happen in the thread based on what's happened. How can you disagree with this? This is a fact! | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5201 Posts
Something else to consider: VE's roleclaim makes little sense from a town perspective, but does it even make sense from a scum perspective? Something to think is that townies often aren't too concerned with how their actions will be perceived. From Ver's guide: For townies, they'll react to the game long before even considering how suspicious they might or might not look. On the other hand, Mafia are absolutely terrified to do something that will put them in the spotlight and get suspicion on them. A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move? I feel that a lot of the recent discussion has centered around how VE's roleclaim is scummy. I initially thought "there is no way a town DT would claim". But is there any reason for a scum to fakeclaim? Like people have said, VE wasn't quite guranteed to be lynched yet, him and Toad were neck and neck. So why fakeclaim as scum? Gonzaw what do you think??? pls come back  | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually Bugs, I forgot about the Paranoid/Naive mechanic. I was under the impression that one check is all it would take when I claimed. That's a herp on my part. I just want to point out that this is basically impossible. In the role pm for DT it straight up tells you about the sanities. There's no way this punk "forgot" about paranoia, naivete, and insanity. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S0pX9.png) This is VE literally claiming scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs but he IS wrong about me - that's my point. What? that makes no sense. If he's wrong about you that says nothing about his alignment. If you were town you'd know that and just chalk that up to Toad being retarded. On April 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: You just deciding that that's your read on me and that's what I am does NOT make it true, and it does NOT make Toad right at all. I never said Toad was right for the reasons he stated. Toad is right by blind luck, for all I care. I am confident in my own read based on your answers to my questions. i.e. the noncommital, bullshit answers that didn't say anything to begin with. Just like these posts you're coming up with now. On April 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: His reasoning is STILL shit and he's STILL using scum logic to incriminate and discredit me. His reasoning's always been shit regardless of his alignment, dunno how you managed to twist this into him being scum this time around. On April 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Look at his last post! He's not even trying to understand what I'm saying - he found one questionable PHRASE in my post and blew it up all huge and shit. He's fucking SCUM bro, and you can't fucking see it. Again, you keep saying Toad is scum because he is scum...and I can't see it. That doesn't cut it. You can say that about ANY player On April 12 2012 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: I think maybe you spent too many long hot nights together in Skype during C9++. I agree that the game was sexy as hell, but...really bugs....  lol. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:45 EchelonTee wrote: The only experience I've had with Toad was in TL L. In that game, people sort of disregarded him but he pushed his own reads hard hard hard like a btch. He's sort of like that in this game, but honestly as soon as VE made the scummy role claim and people started flooding in calling VE scum, he's been content to let other people do the heavy lifting. I would think that Toad would be driving home this lynch triumphant and proud if he was town. Something else to consider: VE's roleclaim makes little sense from a town perspective, but does it even make sense from a scum perspective? Something to think is that townies often aren't too concerned with how their actions will be perceived. From Ver's guide: A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move? I feel that a lot of the recent discussion has centered around how VE's roleclaim is scummy. I initially thought "there is no way a town DT would claim". But is there any reason for a scum to fakeclaim? Like people have said, VE wasn't quite guranteed to be lynched yet, him and Toad were neck and neck. So why fakeclaim as scum? Gonzaw what do you think??? pls come back YES BUGS Where is the "Sandroba Effect"? He should be in here like, SCREAMING at everyone to praise him. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:42 wherebugsgo wrote: What the fuck? I never said I agreed with Toad's case, I just said I thought he was right about his conclusion (that VE was scum) My reasoning for calling VE scum was completely independent of Toad's reasoning. If my reasoning was the same I'd be calling gonzaw scum too, but you don't see me doing that, do you? Here is what you said, first person after toads big ole Pony post. I didn't find his case convincing. I said he might be right because I was in the process of rereading at the time and I found VE suspicious myself. In fact when I wrote that post I don't even think I had read Toad's case, I just saw the conclusion (that VE+gonzaw were scum.) I ignored the gonzaw part because I thought he was wrong there. Yes he did. Look at it more carefully, I broke it down already once. This is not a reason to call someone scum. That would be like Toad saying gonzaw is scum because he thinks gonzaw is scum and I don't. How the fuck does that make gonzaw scum? (replace Toad with VE and gonzaw with Toad) This is not a reason for Toad being scum, VE just says he's clearly scum without explaining why. Again, not an answer. Heck, the reasoning for killing him (to find out info about me) is equally absurd; if anyone wanted to find out info about me they'd try to kill me, not Toad. That part doesn't even make sense. It's more of "this guy looks town and this guy looks scum" without explaining anything at all. No whys, just whats. OMGUS isn't exclusively a scum trait, town do it all the time. Hell, I'd venture to say that town do it even more often than scum do. Now that I've broken it down a SECOND time, JUST for you, do you understand now? Okay good answer. This actually seems genuine. Doesn't change my vote for now. But I am so on the fence between the two its unbelievable. The only part that makes me want to sway my vote onto VE. Is that he claims he didn't know about the sanity mechanics when it was right in the PM. Which is just lieing, and why would he need to lie. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:34 EchelonTee wrote: IF YOU IGNORE VE'S ROLECLAIM DOES HE LOOK SCUMMY TO YOU? ANSWER THIS EVERYONE This is not a relevant question. He DID roleclaim. His roleclaim IS scummy. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
read their posts to explain why i believe VE is correct choice. the rest of you are big fat nooblords who are as indecisive as VE himself. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:43 VisceraEyes wrote: What I meant by this post (I'm assuming this is the post) is that because you're so blind to Toad right now, flipping him and seeing what you do when he flips is going to tell me more about your alignment. More than any other single person in this thread Bugs. AND YOU LIVED! If I'm not scum and you're not scum, who the fuck is LEADING this scum team that sniped seventeen blues on N1? Not Jackal, he ded. So like...who? Toad? BH? WHO? Watching you react to Toad flipping when you've been defending him most of the game is going to be more telling to me than any other single EVENT that COULD happen in the thread based on what's happened. How can you disagree with this? This is a fact! or you could just kill me instead. rofl. Your reasoning is total shit and you know it. As town if you were a DT you would have checked me over Toad any day of the week. If I die, you have a flip to help confirm your sanity. If I don't die, you have a check that you can use the next day. Instead you say you chose Toad, which is just an awful check to begin with. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
WHICH IS WHY I WANT US TO DIRECT OUR ATTENTION TO SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN THIS MESS | ||
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FourFace
701 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:49 FourFace wrote: Maybe VE is vanilla town? Ever thought about that? He's trying to get himself killed by mafia so he can get as far from this pile of shit thread as possible Why would a vanilla town ever claim DT? And there was no pile of shit before he claimed. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
see this is easy. scumhunting 101 | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:47 Kenpachi wrote: its really simple. ET and Jitsu are some of the most sensible guys in the entire thread. DEFINITELY. read their posts to explain why i believe VE is correct choice. the rest of you are big fat nooblords who are as indecisive as VE himself. On April 12 2012 07:49 FourFace wrote: Maybe VE is vanilla town? Ever thought about that? He's trying to get himself killed by mafia so he can get as far from this pile of shit thread as possible Welcome to my ignore list, population you. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1ZuoG.png) | ||
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