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On April 12 2012 07:02 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:57 FourFace wrote:
Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now? yes, but judging by VE's recent play I don't think this is likely. VE would never claim that he could confirm his sanity with one flip when it's clear to anyone who thinks for a half second that you can't possibly confirm sanity with one flip, regardless of what the flip is. VE would not then try to use that argument as town to back up his shoddy claim. This hinges on a townie VE knowing what he's doing, but as far as that assumption goes, he knows better than pretty much every other player in this game. Actually Bugs, I forgot about the Paranoid/Naive mechanic. I was under the impression that one check is all it would take when I claimed. That's a herp on my part.
YEAH RIGHT LOL
Undercover Investigator (Detective) - You have been pretending to be a noble for quite some time now, having been placed in that position by high Chancellor to try to sniff out any Anti-Monarchists among the nobility. Every night you may observe one of the attendees at this party and see if they are really harboring anti-monarchist sentiments. Your checks return either Innocent or Guilty. Your sanity is not guaranteed, as serving in this position may have twisted your perception of reality. You may be either Sane, Insane, Paranoid or Naive.
Anyone who is actually a DT would know his own role best. VE is not this stupid as town. It's in the fucking role PM.
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I claimed because I'm about to die. I don't care about being roleblocked. I care about being alive to find scum because I keep getting KILLED Bugs. Jesus.
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I got excited with a red check and forgot Bugs, I'm fucking human. This game isn't about "who can remember their role the best" it's "who can find and eliminate scum". One of them is me. One of them is not.
But you don't care about that shit do you? You're not REALLY finally actually listening to reason, you're just making me keep talking to shit up the thread whilst NOT reading my cases some more.
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I have read those posts you made already and nothing in there is indicative of Toad being scum over him being his usual derpy town self. Toad is always wishy washy regardless of his alignment and you already know that. Why should I have to tell you that?
Mostly those two posts you made are just post by post rehashes of what Toad did, nitpicking and trying to find anything you can to try to call him scum. What matters are not those posts, but your initial reasoning for voting Toad to begin with, which was nonexistent.
I proved that by asking you why you were voting Toad. Your response consisted of "toad is scum because he is scum and because you don't agree with me," which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Nothing in your analysis says how Toad is operating with a scum agenda in mind. The only thing that comes even close is "Toad is adding useless filler to the thread" and that can be said about literally any player in this game, because most of them have done nothing but spout garbage.
Now you're trying to claim you "forgot" about the naive and paranoid mechanics when they're in the sample role PM for the DTs. Right. That's totally believable.
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....................................................why is mafia so hard.
I've been re-reading and re-reading the cases on VE and Toad, and the case that Toad brought up against VE is just bad. WBG's case against VE hinges a lot on the fact that VE "didn't have reasons" for voting the people he did, which is a big reason why I didn't like VE either, but VE's big two-part case on Toad kind of... makes a lot of sense.
VE has died d1/n1, like the past 4 games. I could see him getting a blue role and wanting to hide. The bigger red flags for me are the unbreadcrumbed check, and the roleclaim in general, but if VE hadn't roleclaimed at all, I might actually think that Toad was worse.
Gonzaw, what do you think?
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man I'm gonna have an aneurysm if I keep coming back to this thread, so I'm just gonna leave now.
I'm done for the day. VE is my vote, and if you don't like it, well, then, have fun losing.
byebye
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On April 12 2012 07:12 wherebugsgo wrote:
I have read those posts you made already and nothing in there is indicative of Toad being scum over him being his usual derpy town self. Toad is always wishy washy regardless of his alignment and you already know that. Why should I have to tell you that?
Mostly those two posts you made are just post by post rehashes of what Toad did, nitpicking and trying to find anything you can to try to call him scum. What matters are not those posts, but your initial reasoning for voting Toad to begin with, which was nonexistent.
I proved that by asking you why you were voting Toad. Your response consisted of "toad is scum because he is scum and because you don't agree with me," which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Nothing in your analysis says how Toad is operating with a scum agenda in mind. The only thing that comes even close is "Toad is adding useless filler to the thread" and that can be said about literally any player in this game, because most of them have done nothing but spout garbage.
Now you're trying to claim you "forgot" about the naive and paranoid mechanics when they're in the sample role PM for the DTs. Right. That's totally believable.
But he's not PUSHING his "wishy-washy" reads that he arrives at - he's just arbitrarily picking out things people post and saying he's suspicious. He's able to clarify his posting. You said it yourself, he's NOT doing what you and BC said, he's just being fucking ridiculous.
What about him insisting that he's confirmed town? What about that being his PRIMARY point against me? You don't think ANY OF IT looks like scum pushing some kind of agenda? Really?
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 12 2012 06:16 EchelonTee wrote:##Vote: VisceraEyesFakeclaim is implausible. Has been pushing people without much reason. Posts this: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
My check doesn't confirm anything until Toad flips. But MY suspicion on his is strengthened, and I can't help that. But I know it's true. Toad is scum and he and his ilk about to pull one of the biggest upsets in Team Liquid history.
johnnywup,Katina, Zealos, Blazinghand, Toadesstern, Jitsu
Fuck yeah, let's do this. When I know VE to be usually prone to pushing 1-2 players at a time in a very comprehensive manner. Think TL LII JubJub; he makes a post calling out exaclty 2 players, prplhz and Caller, and does so very strongly. He hasn't done this like, at all, except for on Toad. He hasn't been helping town, only disrupting it. There is almost no way a town VE could think that this claim could help town.
This post is an apt observation on Blazinghand. Blazinghand is a top 3 priority lynch for me at this point. To only have pushed 1 mislynch is strange for BH at this point. The loud, active BH who posts gifs and random pix is nowhere to be soon. Seriously, BH u've only pushed FF and S.T. super lightly at this point; wdf? You're seriously seriously hanging in the background not doing much. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 04:40 Blazinghand wrote:On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
...create more chaos and disrupt the thread, and serve no constructive purpose. It fuels other people to be aggressive to you while you are aggressive to them in a non-specific manner. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, nor generates any type of scumhunting whatsoever.
If you don't like my playstyle, lynch me. Or are you too afrad??? I'm an aggressive player. Deal. On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
You disappear since the middle of N1 mostly and don't reappear until now, and you do so to post some stuff about VE's claim (yet you don't comment on the previous things discussed about him), and you disrupt the thread with posts like these.
VE's claim overshadows EVERYTHING he said previously. He did not need to claim, and he did. He is scum. Does the previous case matter on him? Sure. But it is all overshadowed by his claim. On April 12 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
Are you, wbg, Toad and VE scum?
If at least 1 of you is town, I'll be very disappointed. suck it* For being all "deal with it" and "im aggressive trololol", you really haven't been aggresive or decisive all game. And the whole "VE's claim is shit that's the only reason anyone needs to lynch him" reminds me of when in TL LII jubjub, DrH bussed Kurumi, saying "his claim is fake, that's all evidence we need nop nop nop nop". This smells a lot like a bus.
This is a pretty townie post from WBG. WBG has had ups and downs, but the two most reliable people in the game thus far I find to be gonzaw and WBG, along with a few other players who shall remain unnamed. People who aren't needlessly disputing this or that in an abrasive manner get points in my book, especially when the town is super polarized as it is. Gonzaw and WBG, if one of you is scum then this game is already pretty much lost as neither of you are going to be lynched anytime soon, but as it stands I have town reads on you both. If you guys can come to terms and consider each other townie, we can try and get things done.
Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Why would you claim after we lost 3 blues last night? Because blues aren't going to win this game - reading the thread and analyzing what the hell is going on is going to win. I claimed because in spite of being a DT, I intend to roll scum by analyzing what's happened here and figuring out who's scum by scumhunting. Why would you claim when the votes were split evenly on both sides? As large as my wagon had gotten before halfway through the day, I was afraid if I didn't claim now I would run the risk of the claim not mattering by getting lynched because my detractors are all not even reading. No one is responding to my case or saying why it's shit, everyone is just saying it's shit and sheeping Toad and Bugs. It's ridiculous and there's no fighting that...at least, not with the effort it would require. I tried it the right way. I made a case, and I pushed my case, and no one was even willing to read my case or refute my case. Toad is sidestepping my accusations and no one even cares. Why would you claim with over half the day to go? Because there are two possibilities: I'll get lynched or Toad will get lynched. If I get lynched, I'll flip DT and Toad may get lynched, he may not...my sanity is in question, and if I die there's always be that question. If Toad is lynched, he'll either flip town or scum, but my sanity will be certain and I'll have a baseline for future checks (if any are possible). Obviously scum can roleblock me, but I'm motherfucking VE. I don't need the power to roll them. Why would you try and push a Hassy train lynch, assuming he was scum potentially pulling attention to yourself in the night kill? Because by that point I was convinced of Hassy's guilt and I wanted to get him lynched. I've got "attention to myself in the night kill" in spades. I don't think Hassy is scum anymore, but that's my reasoning for pushing the Hassy train. Why would you claim, before you could guarentee your sanity? (coulda tried for toad lynch then if you were right you were most likely sane, you weren't done yet, it wasn't even close)I did man, I posted a two phase case on Toad which he barely responded to and which most everyone is ignoring. I've stated EXACTLY why I feel the way I feel about Toad, and none of it has to do with my check. AT all. Again, I'm exhausted and I can't fight everyone on my own. The claim reinforced my credibility, which might be the only thing that keeps me going at this point. Now I've seen that it in fact weakens my credibility. I don't know what I'm going to do now. I'm going to die, again, and the scums are going to roll town, again. I know my claim is suspicious. But I have reasoning for claiming the way I did. If town is too obtuse to accept it, that's fine. I was about to give up anyway.  VE has still not given a legitimate response to why claiming DT in a setup like this is godawful. For the ribbing that Risen got in GoT, this is too too bad of a claim to be legit. This reminds me of how hard it was to lynch Kurumi, despite my whole team pushing and pushing to bus him ... lol.
In summary: VE needs to die today. WBG and gonzaw you're both townies stop fighting. Adam, you are looking pretty scummy with your buddying to me, and the fact that you haven't helped much this game at all. Your play is reminding me of how you were in our scum game way back when. Jitsu looks scummy because he hasn't been nearly as transparant in his reads, nor as indignant as he has been in response to accusations. BH is scummy scum. I hestiate to call Toad town, but he is less scummy than either VE, BH, or Jitsu. People who say "oh if VE flips scum then Toad is town" need to rethink their mafia playstyle. I'm busy as fck which is why I've been moderately AWOL, but seriously, VE has to die. People, try not to spam the thread too much lest it become unreadable. The 3 replacements are probably shaking their heads at this entire ordeal.
I agree with most of what ET said here^^ Except the section on WBG being town, not really convinced of that at all. As well as Jitsu being Scum, he is Null for me. The case on Toad was far superior, but the claim was so awkward. Note that Toad was going crazy defensive earlier in the thread and spamming is up, similar to what VE is doing now. So that works both ways.
My problem is BH and WBG have no opinions until the claim then come out and act like VE is the only option. As well as a lot of other people that don't sit right with me. My gut told me day 1, that VE was scum, but it could be also recognized as scared blue play. The claim was absolutely mis-timed and awful. I can't see a reason for scum to do it with 5 others to talk to... Unless both were scum, but I don't think that makes any sense, or Unless there trying to bus and give town cred to WBG, who shouldn't have had any prior. But does for some reason.
For the Safer lynch lets go over both:
Lynch VE: He returns sane detective -> lynch Toad immediately. Waste 1 cycle. Get a mafia. Okay Lynch.
Lynch VE: He returns insane detective -> New discussion. Bad lynch.
Lynch VE: He just returns detective -> New discussion. Total wasted lynch. Terrible Lynch.
Lynch VE: Returns scum. -> New discussion, Toad seems more likely but not completely town. Good lynch.
Lynch Toad: Returns Scum -> VE gets some credibility, new discussion. VE tries to confirm not Paranoid. Great Lynch. Best possible case,
Lynch Toad: Returns Town -> VE claims insane. We have no way to trust him, most likely need to lynch VE. Worst possible case.
If we can get clarification from hosts if Detectives return there sanity. That would be very helpful. If DT's return there sanity I will switch my vote to VE for sure. As it will give us a decent chance for a good lynch or a okay lynch. As it stands now I am afraid to lynch a blue and get no information from it. Toad lynch seems like all or nothing lynch though, which seems risky.
Currently not sure what to do.
WILL DTS RETURN SANITY ON FLIP?
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Sounds like two junkies trying to get their forum mafia fix, one is overanxious to try out his blue toy the other is frustrated that he didn't get the deluxe dose of being scum or blue. Can we at least consider another lynch candidate. There's plenty of fish in the sea.
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On April 12 2012 07:17 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:12 wherebugsgo wrote:
I have read those posts you made already and nothing in there is indicative of Toad being scum over him being his usual derpy town self. Toad is always wishy washy regardless of his alignment and you already know that. Why should I have to tell you that?
Mostly those two posts you made are just post by post rehashes of what Toad did, nitpicking and trying to find anything you can to try to call him scum. What matters are not those posts, but your initial reasoning for voting Toad to begin with, which was nonexistent.
I proved that by asking you why you were voting Toad. Your response consisted of "toad is scum because he is scum and because you don't agree with me," which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Nothing in your analysis says how Toad is operating with a scum agenda in mind. The only thing that comes even close is "Toad is adding useless filler to the thread" and that can be said about literally any player in this game, because most of them have done nothing but spout garbage.
Now you're trying to claim you "forgot" about the naive and paranoid mechanics when they're in the sample role PM for the DTs. Right. That's totally believable. But he's not PUSHING his "wishy-washy" reads that he arrives at - he's just arbitrarily picking out things people post and saying he's suspicious. He's able to clarify his posting. You said it yourself, he's NOT doing what you and BC said, he's just being fucking ridiculous. What about him insisting that he's confirmed town? What about that being his PRIMARY point against me? You don't think ANY OF IT looks like scum pushing some kind of agenda? Really?
You aren't pushing your reads either!
The only person you've pushed all game is Toad, and from the looks of it it's not based on anything substantial to begin with.
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Unreal. Absolutely unreal.
I'm really not trying to anger anyone. I'm trying to be understood and explain myself, but everyone has an accusation and everyone wants it responded to. I understand I'm under scrutiny for A) being a lynch candidate and B) making a blue-claim, but it's getting ridiculous.
I'm not leaving the thread. If Bugs thinks he can push a wagon with me kicking and screaming on it without being in the thread, he's sorely mistaken.
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and Toad says stupid shit like "confirmed town" or "confirmed scum" all the time when he's town. He did that in Storm, he did it in L, he did it in AC. You of all people should know this because you were IN THOSE GAMES.
As for his case, I already said it's complete shit. So is yours! Neither of you has a case worth listening to, but you overreacted and you didn't have a reason to be voting Toad to begin with.
I hate lynching DT claims as much as the next guy, but this one makes no sense.
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I'm sorry Bugs, was I not the PRIMARY propulsion device for the counterwagon we tried D1? Was I not there PUSHING that wagon as hard as I could WITH you sir?
I mean, saying I'm not pushing my reads is unfair at best, and you know it.
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On April 12 2012 07:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
and Toad says stupid shit like "confirmed town" or "confirmed scum" all the time when he's town. He did that in Storm, he did it in L, he did it in AC. You of all people should know this because you were IN THOSE GAMES.
As for his case, I already said it's complete shit. So is yours! Neither of you has a case worth listening to, but you overreacted and you didn't have a reason to be voting Toad to begin with.
I hate lynching DT claims as much as the next guy, but this one makes no sense.
I'm just saying man, that's his PRIMARY REASON for suspecting me. Go look again: "I'm confirmed town and these two clowns (VE and Gonzaw) are pushing me as scum so they're scum"
Like, HE REALLY SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUGS
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On April 12 2012 06:57 FourFace wrote:
Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now?
Yes, this is very possible.
In fact, now that I think about it, VE could just be very stupid.
Is anyone else willing to switch to someone more likely to flip scum (i.e. Katina)?
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On April 12 2012 07:18 Mementoss wrote:
My problem is BH and WBG have no opinions until the claim then come out and act like VE is the only option. As well as a lot of other people that don't sit right with me. My gut told me day 1, that VE was scum, but it could be also recognized as scared blue play. The claim was absolutely mis-timed and awful. I can't see a reason for scum to do it with 5 others to talk to... Unless both were scum, but I don't think that makes any sense, or Unless there trying to bus and give town cred to WBG, who shouldn't have had any prior. But does for some reason.
This is a complete lie, I took a very firm stance AGAINST VE hours before he even claimed. I don't know if you're purposely trying to make me look bad or if you just can't read.
Neither would surprise me, since no one this game is actually reading this mess.
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On April 12 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm sorry Bugs, was I not the PRIMARY propulsion device for the counterwagon we tried D1? Was I not there PUSHING that wagon as hard as I could WITH you sir?
I mean, saying I'm not pushing my reads is unfair at best, and you know it.
you only pushed it because I started, as far as I could tell.
From my perspective I had no clue whether you genuinely supported it because you thought I was right or because you were scum and you wanted to buddy me.
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On April 12 2012 07:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
I claimed because I'm about to die. I don't care about being roleblocked. I care about being alive to find scum because I keep getting KILLED Bugs. Jesus.
I got excited with a red check and forgot Bugs, I'm fucking human. This game isn't about "who can remember their role the best" it's "who can find and eliminate scum". One of them is me. One of them is not.
But you don't care about that shit do you? You're not REALLY finally actually listening to reason, you're just making me keep talking to shit up the thread whilst NOT reading my cases some more.
It's kinda sad to watch him devolve into such desperation...
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The fact that there are so many lurkers makes me more confident in the above quoted statement. I think it's very possible that scum is just watching us tear each other apart. And if we are going to lynch WBG/VE/Toad then we should definitely lynch a lurker tomorrow.
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That wasn't a stance Bugs, your read is based on me not responding TO that post. That's not the reason you gave for your suspicion of me.
I get my D1 play was horrendous. I get that. And I get that I'm not doing a bang-up job of D2 either...but I'm here and I'm trying.
Ugh, that doesn't mean anything. 
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EPT
