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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:48 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:26 marvellosity wrote:
wbg, gonzaw, ET: I would appreciate it if you would comment on my 1-for-1 reasoning with regards to VE's claim I disagree with it completely. If I were in VE's position I'd be completely fine with claiming and then trying to go for 1 for 1, because chances are strong you can wriggle yourself out of a second lynch with effort just as you got out of the first one. In fact I myself have done this in the past and VE, like me, is a very active scum player. It's not easy by any means, but because future lynches are uncertain by virtue of being in the future, if VE thought as scum he had no choice but to sac himself based on the amount of flak he was getting, he would have done anything in his power just to get anyone but himself lynched today. Your argument breaks when you consider the fact that I was heaping a lot of pressure on VE before he even claimed. This indicates to VE that he's going to take lynch pressure (i.e. that he's probably going to die) as scum in that position all you want to do is live. So, he did the best thing scum could do in that position: he destroyed the thread with walls of texts and he made a claim that noobs and sheep would believe. In addition, VE's behavior extends beyond a simple kill trade. If Toad is town and VE is scum and we kill Toad today, we waste TWO FULL cycles by focusing solely on two players. Day 3 will be a complete wash if our target today is town. In fact, on day 3 if one of these guys flips town I'm sure everyone will be wondering if the other guy is town too! This sort of situation happens very often (just look at game of thrones) and it isn't as simple as "this is a 1 for 1 trade that scum would never do!" There are clear advantages to VE's play from a scum perspective and those advantages would have already started taking effect, if he indeed is scum. Please don't forget the fact that I am apparently happily going for the 1v1 as well. According to him VE is willing to go and do a 1v1 trade makes him look townish and makes me look mafia. Me willing to go 1v1 with VE however makes me look mafia and VE look town? His argument is wrong like you said and on top of that affects both of us so even it would be right it's a null because it's "true" for the tw of us. Yet he brings it up to say it looks like VE is town?
Huh? The argument was based around VE's claim, not yours...
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how do i know that you're a dt ve? did you breadcrumb or has your posting in any other way been influenced by your role?
also, inb4 wbg says "crumbs dont matter" and 5 noobs go crazy because i'm talking like i know that ve's role is for real. really guys, this thread is a horrible mess, and i know 'cause i'm reading it from the start right now and you guys point out every little stupid insignificant thing.
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On April 12 2012 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Fuck off with that Bugs, you're not interested in helping town either. You're shutting out the possibility that I'm telling the truth because it doesn't fit with your initial read of me. GUESS WHAT BUGS YOUR FUCKING EARLY READS ARE BALLS! MINE ARE BADASS! GET THE FUCK OVER IT
yup this guy is totally not disrupting thread. this is definitely a constructive, confident town player who has come a long way from being a terrible, disruptive, vengeful player.
/sarcasm
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:47 marvellosity wrote:On April 12 2012 06:43 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:40 marvellosity wrote:On April 12 2012 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:26 marvellosity wrote:
wbg, gonzaw, ET: I would appreciate it if you would comment on my 1-for-1 reasoning with regards to VE's claim I disagree with it completely. If I were in VE's position I'd be completely fine with claiming and then trying to go for 1 for 1, because chances are strong you can wriggle yourself out of a second lynch with effort just as you got out of the first one. In fact I myself have done this in the past and VE, like me, is a very active scum player. It's not easy by any means, but because future lynches are uncertain by virtue of being in the future, if VE thought as scum he had no choice but to sac himself based on the amount of flak he was getting, he would have done anything in his power just to get anyone but himself lynched today. Your argument breaks when you consider the fact that I was heaping a lot of pressure on VE before he even claimed. This indicates to VE that he's going to take lynch pressure (i.e. that he's probably going to die) as scum in that position all you want to do is live. So, he did the best thing scum could do in that position: he destroyed the thread with walls of texts and he made a claim that noobs and sheep would believe. In addition, VE's behavior extends beyond a simple kill trade. If Toad is town and VE is scum and we kill Toad today, we waste TWO FULL cycles by focusing solely on two players. Day 3 will be a complete wash if our target today is town. In fact, on day 3 if one of these guys flips town I'm sure everyone will be wondering if the other guy is town too! This sort of situation happens very often (just look at game of thrones) and it isn't as simple as "this is a 1 for 1 trade that scum would never do!" There are clear advantages to VE's play from a scum perspective and those advantages would have already started taking effect, if he indeed is scum. Ok, then presumably you think VE is the sort of player who would crack 30+ hours before voting ends in a situation where is extremely far from certain he would get lynched? One more thing - "he destroyed the thread" - perhaps, perhaps not - it's generated a lot of discussion. But it also shoots himself in the foot because he made 2 large cases against Toad shortly before his claim which have also been buried. I don't see how this helps him. this is not a lot of "discussion" this is a lot of absolutely nothing. You can read a full 20+ pages and they're all full of shit flinging between the Toad and VE camps. This day has degenerated into Toad vs VE almost solely because VE went on a rampage after he realized he was doomed, and because Toad is the type of person to respond to such an accusation with massive posts of his own. If there is a single townie that scum would benefit the most out of accusing, it's Toad, because he says stupid stuff all the time and because when he's accused he tends to OMGUS and then destroy the thread with you. I would know, because I as scum do it myself. How the hell does blowing up the thread correlate with VE shooting himself in the foot? His scum team probably loves him right now, other than the fact that he'll die. Scum love chaos. Ok that does all make sense, other than your assessment that VE was doomed. The case against Toad remains strong, however. you can keep asserting that if you wish, it's not going to make it any more true. I even repeated myself to VE and he still hasn't responded to my accusations, despite saying he would. He's still posting other useless shit though.
Which part is untrue? The fact that a lynch candidate isn't doomed with 30+ hours to deadline vote? Or the case against toad brought by gonzaw/VE and to a lesser extent me? If so, why?
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On April 12 2012 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Fuck off with that Bugs, you're not interested in helping town either. You're shutting out the possibility that I'm telling the truth because it doesn't fit with your initial read of me. GUESS WHAT BUGS YOUR FUCKING EARLY READS ARE BALLS! MINE ARE BADASS! GET THE FUCK OVER IT
so you admit you don't want to help town?
Why are you trying to pick a fight with me and not answering my accusations? You asked for them, I provided them. Now you're ignoring them and trying to make me look bad. You're continuing to fling mud on the thread, yet you claim I am anti-town?
I figured you were scum to begin with because you ignored my question and you just dodged it repeatedly. Your reasoning for calling Toad scum was because I didn't agree with you and also Toad is scum because Toad is scum (rofl) you STILL haven't answered me with a proper reason for thinking Toad is scum.
Instead, in 20 pages you have managed to derail the thread and you continue to overreact to basic and simple questions instead of actually answering them.
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On April 12 2012 06:51 prplhz wrote:
how do i know that you're a dt ve? did you breadcrumb or has your posting in any other way been influenced by your role?
also, inb4 wbg says "crumbs dont matter" and 5 noobs go crazy because i'm talking like i know that ve's role is for real. really guys, this thread is a horrible mess, and i know 'cause i'm reading it from the start right now and you guys point out every little stupid insignificant thing.
prpl; if you want to clear this whole situation up very quickly, read the first 6 or 7 pages that immediately follow the beginning of day 2.
You'll see the origin of this debacle there. You'll see why Toad called VE scum (it was mostly OMGUS) and you'll see why I called VE scum (it was because he didn't answer my question)
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On April 12 2012 06:54 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:51 prplhz wrote:
how do i know that you're a dt ve? did you breadcrumb or has your posting in any other way been influenced by your role?
also, inb4 wbg says "crumbs dont matter" and 5 noobs go crazy because i'm talking like i know that ve's role is for real. really guys, this thread is a horrible mess, and i know 'cause i'm reading it from the start right now and you guys point out every little stupid insignificant thing. prpl; if you want to clear this whole situation up very quickly, read the first 6 or 7 pages that immediately follow the beginning of day 2. You'll see the origin of this debacle there. You'll see why Toad called VE scum (it was mostly OMGUS) and you'll see why I called VE scum (it was because he didn't answer my question)
And you'll probably see my case, which is that VE is playing straight into his AC scum meta...
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On April 12 2012 06:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:47 marvellosity wrote:On April 12 2012 06:43 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:40 marvellosity wrote:On April 12 2012 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:26 marvellosity wrote:
wbg, gonzaw, ET: I would appreciate it if you would comment on my 1-for-1 reasoning with regards to VE's claim I disagree with it completely. If I were in VE's position I'd be completely fine with claiming and then trying to go for 1 for 1, because chances are strong you can wriggle yourself out of a second lynch with effort just as you got out of the first one. In fact I myself have done this in the past and VE, like me, is a very active scum player. It's not easy by any means, but because future lynches are uncertain by virtue of being in the future, if VE thought as scum he had no choice but to sac himself based on the amount of flak he was getting, he would have done anything in his power just to get anyone but himself lynched today. Your argument breaks when you consider the fact that I was heaping a lot of pressure on VE before he even claimed. This indicates to VE that he's going to take lynch pressure (i.e. that he's probably going to die) as scum in that position all you want to do is live. So, he did the best thing scum could do in that position: he destroyed the thread with walls of texts and he made a claim that noobs and sheep would believe. In addition, VE's behavior extends beyond a simple kill trade. If Toad is town and VE is scum and we kill Toad today, we waste TWO FULL cycles by focusing solely on two players. Day 3 will be a complete wash if our target today is town. In fact, on day 3 if one of these guys flips town I'm sure everyone will be wondering if the other guy is town too! This sort of situation happens very often (just look at game of thrones) and it isn't as simple as "this is a 1 for 1 trade that scum would never do!" There are clear advantages to VE's play from a scum perspective and those advantages would have already started taking effect, if he indeed is scum. Ok, then presumably you think VE is the sort of player who would crack 30+ hours before voting ends in a situation where is extremely far from certain he would get lynched? One more thing - "he destroyed the thread" - perhaps, perhaps not - it's generated a lot of discussion. But it also shoots himself in the foot because he made 2 large cases against Toad shortly before his claim which have also been buried. I don't see how this helps him. this is not a lot of "discussion" this is a lot of absolutely nothing. You can read a full 20+ pages and they're all full of shit flinging between the Toad and VE camps. This day has degenerated into Toad vs VE almost solely because VE went on a rampage after he realized he was doomed, and because Toad is the type of person to respond to such an accusation with massive posts of his own. If there is a single townie that scum would benefit the most out of accusing, it's Toad, because he says stupid stuff all the time and because when he's accused he tends to OMGUS and then destroy the thread with you. I would know, because I as scum do it myself. How the hell does blowing up the thread correlate with VE shooting himself in the foot? His scum team probably loves him right now, other than the fact that he'll die. Scum love chaos. Ok that does all make sense, other than your assessment that VE was doomed. The case against Toad remains strong, however. you can keep asserting that if you wish, it's not going to make it any more true. I even repeated myself to VE and he still hasn't responded to my accusations, despite saying he would. He's still posting other useless shit though. Which part is untrue? The fact that a lynch candidate isn't doomed with 30+ hours to deadline vote? Or the case against toad brought by gonzaw/VE and to a lesser extent me? If so, why?
the "case" against Toad; it actually doesn't show, in any way, why Toad is scum.
It was created in response to me saying there wasn't a case. In other words, VE voted Toad for no particular reason early in the day and then when I called him out for it he panicked and failed to provide a reason. I called him scum for it and voted him, and then several hours later he made that wall of text that he considers a case. Mostly it's just nitpicking and forcing a case out of nothing.
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On April 12 2012 06:51 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Fuck off with that Bugs, you're not interested in helping town either. You're shutting out the possibility that I'm telling the truth because it doesn't fit with your initial read of me. GUESS WHAT BUGS YOUR FUCKING EARLY READS ARE BALLS! MINE ARE BADASS! GET THE FUCK OVER IT yup this guy is totally not disrupting thread. this is definitely a constructive, confident town player who has come a long way from being a terrible, disruptive, vengeful player. /sarcasm
Seriously? Really? You just said that?
Yeah I'm done. Enjoy your loss town. I fucking tried.
gg scum.
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On April 12 2012 06:51 prplhz wrote:
how do i know that you're a dt ve? did you breadcrumb or has your posting in any other way been influenced by your role?
also, inb4 wbg says "crumbs dont matter" and 5 noobs go crazy because i'm talking like i know that ve's role is for real. really guys, this thread is a horrible mess, and i know 'cause i'm reading it from the start right now and you guys point out every little stupid insignificant thing.
VE's "breadcrumb" is "i'm going to be atmosphere police". Pretty much the most untenable breadcrumb ever.
Hey everyone! stop spamming! VE is just trying to make everyone angry and stuff. Post whether you want Toad or VE dead and stuff.
Maybe a few other scum reads if you have time. But less one liners please! 81 pages before Night 2 is kind of a lot to read through!!!!
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and of course role breadcrumbs don't matter, it's CHECK breadcrumbs that matter.
If he actually breadcrumbed his check of Toad that'd be one thing. Breadcrumbing a role is retarded because literally anyone can do it. I proved that in Mini X.
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Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:56 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:51 EchelonTee wrote:On April 12 2012 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Fuck off with that Bugs, you're not interested in helping town either. You're shutting out the possibility that I'm telling the truth because it doesn't fit with your initial read of me. GUESS WHAT BUGS YOUR FUCKING EARLY READS ARE BALLS! MINE ARE BADASS! GET THE FUCK OVER IT yup this guy is totally not disrupting thread. this is definitely a constructive, confident town player who has come a long way from being a terrible, disruptive, vengeful player. /sarcasm Seriously? Really? You just said that? Yeah I'm done. Enjoy your loss town. I fucking tried. gg scum.
That's not good enough. Try harder. Use reasoning and disarm and refute whatever they have to say. That's what a good townie would do.
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On April 12 2012 06:57 FourFace wrote:
Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now?
It's possible. If so then I'm taking a looooooong break from mafia games. sigh. I bet Adam as scum is laughing his ass off in scum QT. why didn't I roll scum this game...
VE, I don't mean that as a personal offense. It just completely and utterly looks like you are scum and not town. If you're actually town, then, well fck I can't fathom why you would do things you did.
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Bugs my vote was my breadcrumb! I fucking posted a VER case for Christ sake! Do you really think I'm comparing myself to Ver? REALLY?
REALLLLY?
But you know, whatever. I've explained all of my motivations. You choose not to believe them. That's your thing, not mine. I'm absolutely satisfied with my play this game. You should be ashamed of yours. We'll be having words in post-game sir, believe that.
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On April 12 2012 06:57 FourFace wrote:
Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now?
yes, but judging by VE's recent play I don't think this is likely. VE would never claim that he could confirm his sanity with one flip when it's clear to anyone who thinks for a half second that you can't possibly confirm sanity with one flip, regardless of what the flip is. VE would not then try to use that argument as town to back up his shoddy claim.
This hinges on a townie VE knowing what he's doing, but as far as that assumption goes, he knows better than pretty much every other player in this game.
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On April 12 2012 06:59 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:57 FourFace wrote:
Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now? It's possible. If so then I'm taking a looooooong break from mafia games. sigh. I bet Adam as scum is laughing his ass off in scum QT. why didn't I roll scum this game... VE, I don't mean that as a personal offense. It just completely and utterly looks like you are scum and not town. If you're actually town, then, well fck I can't fathom why you would do things you did.
It's genuine frustration. But you know, believe what you will. I can't make you people read.
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On April 12 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:57 FourFace wrote:
Is there any chance that VE, Toad and wbg are all town and scum is stroking on laughter right now? yes, but judging by VE's recent play I don't think this is likely. VE would never claim that he could confirm his sanity with one flip when it's clear to anyone who thinks for a half second that you can't possibly confirm sanity with one flip, regardless of what the flip is. VE would not then try to use that argument as town to back up his shoddy claim. This hinges on a townie VE knowing what he's doing, but as far as that assumption goes, he knows better than pretty much every other player in this game.
Actually Bugs, I forgot about the Paranoid/Naive mechanic. I was under the impression that one check is all it would take when I claimed. That's a herp on my part.
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On April 12 2012 07:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs my vote was my breadcrumb! I fucking posted a VER case for Christ sake! Do you really think I'm comparing myself to Ver? REALLY?
REALLLLY?
But you know, whatever. I've explained all of my motivations. You choose not to believe them. That's your thing, not mine. I'm absolutely satisfied with my play this game. You should be ashamed of yours. We'll be having words in post-game sir, believe that.
no you didn't LOL
The only reason I voted you to begin with was because you didn't explain your motivations. Toad being scum because I didn't agree with you is total bullshit.
Toad being scum because you got a red check is also total bullshit, and you know that. No DT can know his sanity on day 2. You can POTENTIALLY know by day 3, but that means you won't have a useful check on day 3. Thus, DTs in this game are useless until day 4 at the very least, and if you were a town DT you would KNOW that and would not choose to claim today, because you would know you would be roleblocked from then on out.
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On April 12 2012 07:03 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs my vote was my breadcrumb! I fucking posted a VER case for Christ sake! Do you really think I'm comparing myself to Ver? REALLY?
REALLLLY?
But you know, whatever. I've explained all of my motivations. You choose not to believe them. That's your thing, not mine. I'm absolutely satisfied with my play this game. You should be ashamed of yours. We'll be having words in post-game sir, believe that. no you didn't LOL The only reason I voted you to begin with was because you didn't explain your motivations. Toad being scum because I didn't agree with you is total bullshit. Toad being scum because you got a red check is also total bullshit, and you know that. No DT can know his sanity on day 2. You can POTENTIALLY know by day 3, but that means you won't have a useful check on day 3. Thus, DTs in this game are useless until day 4 at the very least, and if you were a town DT you would KNOW that and would not choose to claim today, because you would know you would be roleblocked from then on out.
Dude what the FUCK? I posted TWO HUGE POSTS explaining why I think Toad is scum. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER OF THE THINGS YOU JUST SAID AT ALL.
All I've been asking you to do is read 2 posts. Yes Bugs, they're big. Yes Bugs, it might take you 5 or 10 minutes. I'm fucking sorry I'm verbose. But please read them. My read on Toad has nothing to do with the check, as I've insisted SEVERAL times. Why did you even post this? Are you seriously TRYING to get a rise out of me?
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EPT
