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On April 12 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote:
Ok, I'm going to keep it short now I've finally managed to collect my thoughts.
Firstly - have people genuinely bothered to read VE's two-part case on Toad? It mirrors and expands upon the concerns I had with Toad and why I said I preferred Toad for today's lynch. His case against Toad needs to be examined in conjunction with his blue claim, not ignored because of it.
Secondly - the blue claim itself. It seems so dumb, but nonetheless I've sat here and thought about it and almost thoughts lead to WIFOM. But whether VE is scum or mafia, the claim suggests that he is happy with a 1 for 1 trade with toad. This is the only consistent string I can pull out of the claim. On this basis, a 1 for 1 is surely a more favourable town trade, bearing in mind the wealth of information it brings. A 1 for 1 claim for mafia does not look so good, especially given how polarised opinions have been.
##Vote: Toadesstern
What are you smoking? As a fine lady of the nobility I absolutely MUST have some. You realize this lynch also affects mafia KP right? Oh no, you didn't, because you either didn't think it through or you're scum.
5/6 on my list completed. Let's make it 6/6 scumteam cmon!
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EBWOP: You also disregard the fact that VE was a target for lynching prior to his claim. If he's going down he might as well wreak as much havoc as possible. Your logic is atrocious marvel :/
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On April 12 2012 06:21 wherebugsgo wrote:
I never considered gonzaw scum. I just finally cracked and responded because I realized he would never let it go.
The focus today needs to be on VE + Toad, for obvious reasons. VE is the lynch of choice as has been stated over and over.
There are bound to be scum both on the successful wagon and off of it. Very few scum teams have the balls to all be on one lynch; therefore, after today we need to look at both the VE and Toad lists to determine the likely scum.
All I can say without giving too much away is that we need to be looking for players who were hesitant to pick a side earlier in the day. By this point they will have organized one way or another, so it's probably fruitless to look for recent posts. Look around page 58-68 and there'll be a goldmine of scum in there who don't know what to do. (arbitrary drawing lines based on when the VE thing exploded)
I'm not "the" lynch of choice, I'm "your" lynch of choice. The fact that you're speaking for town tells me that you're desperate Bugs. You don't speak for town. Neither does Toad.
NOOOOOOW I'm starting to doubt you sir. NOOOOOOOOOW I'm starting to understand what people is starting to say.
Well done Bugs, you just gave yourself away. What a day.
@bold
LMFAO - and not the Party Rock kind. Did you just say that scum are going to be on both the lynches? LOL
There's literally no way you're town after that Bugs. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.
Let's try an experiment Bugs - go read my case and try and refute it in any way. If you are able to do so, I'll just leave and you can lynch me and then DIE when I flip DT. But if I win, you have to apologize to me and vote for Toad.
You scared Bugs? Scared to just go read 2 posts and refute them? Having fun doing whatever the fuck else you're doing right now?
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ve can you tell me what the hell is happening today (after the night post)?
a couple of paragraphs explaining motivation if you will
thanks
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:29 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: You also disregard the fact that VE was a target for lynching prior to his claim. If he's going down he might as well wreak as much havoc as possible. Your logic is atrocious marvel :/
No, yours is atrocious and it's unsubstantiated based trying to say which side he's on. I am trying to work out the consistent results for BOTH sides.
There's a reason I didn't ask you for your thoughts, and it is because I consider your thoughts as worthless, based on every game I've read with you in it.
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VE his lynch of choice? There's like 10 people on you. Stop trying to make it seem like he's pushing an agenda that is his alone.
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On April 12 2012 06:27 Katina wrote:
@ Tunkeg: I don't think VE is town just more sure of Toad at the moment.
But really you can't be both. You can think neither is scum, that I buy, since VE can have claimed right and have a insane read. But thinking both are scum is a total cop out. You pick a side, and you picked VE's side, now stick to it, don't be so non-commital.
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On April 12 2012 06:30 prplhz wrote:
ve can you tell me what the hell is happening today (after the night post)?
a couple of paragraphs explaining motivation if you will
thanks
Votes started pouring in on me in response to Bugs "agreeing with Toad's post", when really Bugs has some idiotic scum-read not based on Toad's case at all. I responded and votes started popping on Toad. When we were about even, I claimed DT with a red check on Toad.
My reasoning is in a post not too long ago in my filter in response to Mementoss - it's 5 bolded questions that explain the motivation behind my claim and my reasoning for my targets. No one is reading anything and no one cares. Everyone's just sheeping Bugs because he's Bugs and they're all going to turn on him if/when I flip. It's gonna be great fun. ^^
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On April 12 2012 06:29 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: You also disregard the fact that VE was a target for lynching prior to his claim. If he's going down he might as well wreak as much havoc as possible. Your logic is atrocious marvel :/
This and a thousand times this. VE was under fire. Believing he was dead anyway, but wanting a townie dead first, and maybe also somehow get a counterclaim or something sillly. He could also later claim that he was insane, and have a hope of continuing on.
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On April 12 2012 06:26 marvellosity wrote:
wbg, gonzaw, ET: I would appreciate it if you would comment on my 1-for-1 reasoning with regards to VE's claim
I disagree with it completely.
If I were in VE's position I'd be completely fine with claiming and then trying to go for 1 for 1, because chances are strong you can wriggle yourself out of a second lynch with effort just as you got out of the first one. In fact I myself have done this in the past and VE, like me, is a very active scum player.
It's not easy by any means, but because future lynches are uncertain by virtue of being in the future, if VE thought as scum he had no choice but to sac himself based on the amount of flak he was getting, he would have done anything in his power just to get anyone but himself lynched today.
Your argument breaks when you consider the fact that I was heaping a lot of pressure on VE before he even claimed. This indicates to VE that he's going to take lynch pressure (i.e. that he's probably going to die) as scum in that position all you want to do is live. So, he did the best thing scum could do in that position: he destroyed the thread with walls of texts and he made a claim that noobs and sheep would believe.
In addition, VE's behavior extends beyond a simple kill trade. If Toad is town and VE is scum and we kill Toad today, we waste TWO FULL cycles by focusing solely on two players. Day 3 will be a complete wash if our target today is town.
In fact, on day 3 if one of these guys flips town I'm sure everyone will be wondering if the other guy is town too! This sort of situation happens very often (just look at game of thrones) and it isn't as simple as "this is a 1 for 1 trade that scum would never do!" There are clear advantages to VE's play from a scum perspective and those advantages would have already started taking effect, if he indeed is scum.
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Yeah the line's right there. On this side we read the thread and punish people who don't. On that side they embrace sheeping and ignorance. My side is the winning side, and it's the pro-town side. Everyone should pick a side.
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On April 12 2012 06:33 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:27 Katina wrote:
@ Tunkeg: I don't think VE is town just more sure of Toad at the moment. But really you can't be both. You can think neither is scum, that I buy, since VE can have claimed right and have a insane read. But thinking both are scum is a total cop out. You pick a side, and you picked VE's side, now stick to it, don't be so non-commital.
The day hasn't ended yet. I still have time to confirm my reads on those two. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions if I'm not comfortable with it.
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On April 12 2012 06:33 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:30 prplhz wrote:
ve can you tell me what the hell is happening today (after the night post)?
a couple of paragraphs explaining motivation if you will
thanks Votes started pouring in on me in response to Bugs "agreeing with Toad's post", when really Bugs has some idiotic scum-read not based on Toad's case at all. I responded and votes started popping on Toad. When we were about even, I claimed DT with a red check on Toad. My reasoning is in a post not too long ago in my filter in response to Mementoss - it's 5 bolded questions that explain the motivation behind my claim and my reasoning for my targets. No one is reading anything and no one cares. Everyone's just sheeping Bugs because he's Bugs and they're all going to turn on him if/when I flip. It's gonna be great fun. ^^
You never responded to my accusations. Don't lie.
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On April 12 2012 06:19 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:16 EchelonTee wrote:
Jitsu looks scummy because he hasn't been nearly as transparant in his reads, nor as indignant as he has been in response to accusations. Care to explain where the lack of transparancy in my reads are? I don't give a shit about the accusations, because the only two people who have implied i'm scum (FourFace and Risen) literally have no idea what they are doing.
Perhaps it's unfair to imply that you're a Top 3 scumread for myself, but overall your posting seems off. Stuff like this:
On April 08 2012 23:51 Jitsu wrote:
Your system is fucked up Tnkeg. I've played more then five games and one more then one. Fairly sure.
Also, Someone take a gander at Grackroni. I've accused two people this game of being scum, but I REALLY think that he's scum.
Look quite strange. I remember you to be more precise and focused in your accusations. You also usually ask around a bit more, pressuring this and that, whereas in this game you only really pressured Risen.
You have a strange confidence confidence in your overall town, in stuff like:
On April 10 2012 04:05 Jitsu wrote:
After reading the last few pages after I started typing this, I counted (off the top of my head) four people that said "I would switch to Janaan lynch if it's possible."
You are willing to vote for Janaan to die, yet don't vote for Janaan. Scummy as fuck. Put your money where your mouth is.
You pushed Janaan pretty hard. While obviously hypocritical of me to say so, since I voted for Janaan and was suspicious on him too, I wasn't 100% on it, while you had a sort of confidence and drive to push him over. I myself have done this exact same thing in many scum games I have played, which is why it catches my eye.
Finally, your reaction towards the VE stuff is really strange:
On April 12 2012 03:50 Jitsu wrote:
People are bringing up the fact that it could be a miller/framer mechanic. I think the smart option, regardless if the miller/framer mechanic is in the game, is to lynch the red flip. I would tell you that regardless if I was the person being checked. It leaves too many questions un-answered. The odds of Toad being miller is fairly low, and the possibility of him being framed is moderate at best. But beyond that, if we don't lynch him, it leaves too many questions in the open.
Guarantee leaving him alive at this point will come back to bite us down the road. We let him live today, and then he doesn't get night killed, we start questioning the fact as to why he is still alive, and Day3, we come up with "Should we lynch Toad now? VE had a red check and he's still alive," blah blah blah.
The thing to do now is decide whether VE is telling the truth. Evidence lends it to the fact that it is true. Day1, he claims Toad as a decent scum read for him, and then during the night, he checks him to see if he actually is scum. It comes back Guilty, he forms a case out of whatever he can and pushes it hard. Hard.
I'm going to believe this claim now, especially with overall actions and his previous breadcrumb.
##Vote: Toad
In your 2nd paragraph, you fail to acknoledge that if we leave VE alive, there is a lot more WIFOM that will be going on. And where you say "evidence lends it to the fact that it is true", and mention a "previous breadcrumb" is really strange. What breadcrumb?
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On April 12 2012 06:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:29 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: You also disregard the fact that VE was a target for lynching prior to his claim. If he's going down he might as well wreak as much havoc as possible. Your logic is atrocious marvel :/ No, yours is atrocious and it's unsubstantiated based trying to say which side he's on. I am trying to work out the consistent results for BOTH sides. There's a reason I didn't ask you for your thoughts, and it is because I consider your thoughts as worthless, based on every game I've read with you in it.
LOL, coming from the most worthless player in this game that got to hurt Risen...
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On April 12 2012 06:36 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:33 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 12 2012 06:30 prplhz wrote:
ve can you tell me what the hell is happening today (after the night post)?
a couple of paragraphs explaining motivation if you will
thanks Votes started pouring in on me in response to Bugs "agreeing with Toad's post", when really Bugs has some idiotic scum-read not based on Toad's case at all. I responded and votes started popping on Toad. When we were about even, I claimed DT with a red check on Toad. My reasoning is in a post not too long ago in my filter in response to Mementoss - it's 5 bolded questions that explain the motivation behind my claim and my reasoning for my targets. No one is reading anything and no one cares. Everyone's just sheeping Bugs because he's Bugs and they're all going to turn on him if/when I flip. It's gonna be great fun. ^^ You never responded to my accusations. Don't lie.
I responded to Toad. I missed yours in the madness - I'll filter you.
Are they spread out all Bugs style? Because that shit is SO hard to read...
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On April 12 2012 06:29 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:21 wherebugsgo wrote:
I never considered gonzaw scum. I just finally cracked and responded because I realized he would never let it go.
The focus today needs to be on VE + Toad, for obvious reasons. VE is the lynch of choice as has been stated over and over.
There are bound to be scum both on the successful wagon and off of it. Very few scum teams have the balls to all be on one lynch; therefore, after today we need to look at both the VE and Toad lists to determine the likely scum.
All I can say without giving too much away is that we need to be looking for players who were hesitant to pick a side earlier in the day. By this point they will have organized one way or another, so it's probably fruitless to look for recent posts. Look around page 58-68 and there'll be a goldmine of scum in there who don't know what to do. (arbitrary drawing lines based on when the VE thing exploded)
I'm not "the" lynch of choice, I'm "your" lynch of choice. The fact that you're speaking for town tells me that you're desperate Bugs. You don't speak for town. Neither does Toad. NOOOOOOW I'm starting to doubt you sir. NOOOOOOOOOW I'm starting to understand what people is starting to say. Well done Bugs, you just gave yourself away. What a day. @bold LMFAO - and not the Party Rock kind. Did you just say that scum are going to be on both the lynches? LOL There's literally no way you're town after that Bugs. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Let's try an experiment Bugs - go read my case and try and refute it in any way. If you are able to do so, I'll just leave and you can lynch me and then DIE when I flip DT. But if I win, you have to apologize to me and vote for Toad. You scared Bugs? Scared to just go read 2 posts and refute them? Having fun doing whatever the fuck else you're doing right now?
What the fuck are you going on about?
Why would I bother replying to your massive five page walls of texts when you couldn't even answer one question I posed to you?
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I don't see it Bugs, try again? 
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On April 12 2012 06:37 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 06:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 06:33 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 12 2012 06:30 prplhz wrote:
ve can you tell me what the hell is happening today (after the night post)?
a couple of paragraphs explaining motivation if you will
thanks Votes started pouring in on me in response to Bugs "agreeing with Toad's post", when really Bugs has some idiotic scum-read not based on Toad's case at all. I responded and votes started popping on Toad. When we were about even, I claimed DT with a red check on Toad. My reasoning is in a post not too long ago in my filter in response to Mementoss - it's 5 bolded questions that explain the motivation behind my claim and my reasoning for my targets. No one is reading anything and no one cares. Everyone's just sheeping Bugs because he's Bugs and they're all going to turn on him if/when I flip. It's gonna be great fun. ^^ You never responded to my accusations. Don't lie. I responded to Toad. I missed yours in the madness - I'll filter you. Are they spread out all Bugs style? Because that shit is SO hard to read...
LOL you missed it all in the madness?
More like you CREATED the madness to cover up my legitimate questions. My questions to you appeared well before you started to take a dump on the thread, and the only reason anyone would forget about them is because YOU (and Toad, since you probed into his ego) covered up the thread instead of answering me.
I was asleep all during the time when the thread exploded, so there's no way you could have missed anything that I said.
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Alright, as I said I just couldn't believe VE, assuming he's scum, would just throw his life away on a silver platter, but what WBG said makes sense. VE expected he'd get lynched and with a last blazing salvo he tried to create chaos in the town for future lynches, and perhaps even escape himself. Since I can't see a reason VE would make this play as town (his explanation was erratic at best), my vote is on him.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
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EPT
