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On April 12 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:
Noone is saying it's a good move. People are saying VE is DESPERATE mafia who fakeclaimed without thinking things through.
My whole point is that scum think fakeclaims through more thoroughly than do townies. I remember when I fake claimed Vet (used the delay effect to feign soaking a shot) in a game where I had already essentially won, I agonized over the decision, thought it over through and through, then finally did it. Scum VE would've consulted scum QT, would've thought about things, etc etc.
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On April 12 2012 08:03 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote:On April 12 2012 07:56 FourFace wrote:Scummy is as scummy does A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move?
I still think that a vanilla town could forget about the paranoid/naive modifier and lack scumbuddis to remind him of it. Right but a VT claiming DT is amazingly bad, and VE is not amazingly bad. By VT you mean veteran right. You know what I think about you being veterans? I'm going to take a shit on my scanner and send it to you mhhhkkay?
Good thing I put this guy immedialty onto my ignore list.
Otherwise I would be dead from laughter.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:03 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote:On April 12 2012 07:56 FourFace wrote:Scummy is as scummy does A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move?
I still think that a vanilla town could forget about the paranoid/naive modifier and lack scumbuddis to remind him of it. Right but a VT claiming DT is amazingly bad, and VE is not amazingly bad. By VT you mean veteran right. You know what I think about you being veterans? I'm going to take a shit on my scanner and send it to you mhhhkkay?
No, he means Vanilla Townie.
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:03 FourFace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote:On April 12 2012 07:56 FourFace wrote:Scummy is as scummy does A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move?
I still think that a vanilla town could forget about the paranoid/naive modifier and lack scumbuddis to remind him of it. Right but a VT claiming DT is amazingly bad, and VE is not amazingly bad. By VT you mean veteran right. You know what I think about you being veterans? I'm going to take a shit on my scanner and send it to you mhhhkkay?
....
On April 12 2012 07:56 FourFace wrote:
I still think that a vanilla town could forget about the paranoid/naive modifier and lack scumbuddis to remind him of it. On April 12 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote:
Right but a VT claiming DT is amazingly bad, and VE is not amazingly bad.
On April 12 2012 07:56 FourFace wrote:
vanilla town On April 12 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote:
VT
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
ok I'm done reading anything 4F has to say.
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On April 12 2012 07:59 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 07:53 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 12 2012 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 12 2012 07:45 EchelonTee wrote:The only experience I've had with Toad was in TL L. In that game, people sort of disregarded him but he pushed his own reads hard hard hard like a btch. He's sort of like that in this game, but honestly as soon as VE made the scummy role claim and people started flooding in calling VE scum, he's been content to let other people do the heavy lifting. I would think that Toad would be driving home this lynch triumphant and proud if he was town. Something else to consider: VE's roleclaim makes little sense from a town perspective, but does it even make sense from a scum perspective? Something to think is that townies often aren't too concerned with how their actions will be perceived. From Ver's guide: For townies, they'll react to the game long before even considering how suspicious they might or might not look. On the other hand, Mafia are absolutely terrified to do something that will put them in the spotlight and get suspicion on them. A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move? I feel that a lot of the recent discussion has centered around how VE's roleclaim is scummy. I initially thought "there is no way a town DT would claim". But is there any reason for a scum to fakeclaim? Like people have said, VE wasn't quite guranteed to be lynched yet, him and Toad were neck and neck. So why fakeclaim as scum? Gonzaw what do you think??? pls come back  YES BUGS Where is the "Sandroba Effect"? He should be in here like, SCREAMING at everyone to praise him. what the fuck is a sandroba effect Read this Toad's filter. Ctrl+F "sandroba" for the next few pages. He mentions sandroba a million times. No one really listens to him. He proceeds to spend the entire game perpetually saying sandroba is scum scum scum scum until finally people start to listen to him, and then he goes TOLD YOU GUYS HAHA.
So what? I was DEMOLISHED postgame for my performance. I thought I was awesome because I figured out mafia left and right on my own and I still think so.
However people thought I was weird because I was so focused on sandroba not caring about anything else although I was a townie.
Again. That's the reason I said L made me learn that as long there's a vet around pushing the right buttons I'm more than happy to shut up, agree with him and join forces instead of pushing my own reads because I think those are way better than the other ones to not have the thread bombed. Right now that's happening.
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Well think of it this way marvel: what's more easy to believe? That a scumVE didn't thoroughly research his fake claim or an excited townVE wasn't thinking about his sanities when he made the ONE post regarding how quickly he could confirm his sanity?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well think of it this way marvel: what's more easy to believe? That a scumVE didn't thoroughly research his fake claim or an excited townVE wasn't thinking about his sanities when he made the ONE post regarding how quickly he could confirm his sanity?
This is starting to get eerily like my Newbie endgame
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On April 12 2012 08:04 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 08:03 FourFace wrote:On April 12 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote:On April 12 2012 07:56 FourFace wrote:Scummy is as scummy does A scum doing a fake-claim has to consider all the repercussions of it; will people believe me? is this even a good idea? People in his scum QT would've reminded him "dude paranoid/naive blah blah". This claim could've come from a Town VE, only thinking "yeah dood I'm DT let's claim", which is dumb and unoptimal, but is it primarily a scum move?
I still think that a vanilla town could forget about the paranoid/naive modifier and lack scumbuddis to remind him of it. Right but a VT claiming DT is amazingly bad, and VE is not amazingly bad. By VT you mean veteran right. You know what I think about you being veterans? I'm going to take a shit on my scanner and send it to you mhhhkkay? Good thing I put this guy immedialty onto my ignore list. Otherwise I would be dead from laughter.
Wait a second. You can ignore people out of this thread.. as in I never have to endure being hypnotoaded again. Tell me how and I vote for whoever you want me to
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What did you flip Marvel?
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On April 12 2012 08:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well think of it this way marvel: what's more easy to believe? That a scumVE didn't thoroughly research his fake claim or an excited townVE wasn't thinking about his sanities when he made the ONE post regarding how quickly he could confirm his sanity? This is starting to get eerily like my Newbie endgame
What happened then?
God I am going to get so ribbed out post-game. Am I being an idiot? Is VE obvious obvious scum? sigh....
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
What did you flip Marvel?
You know what happened, and now you're in my shoes. Unfortunately the other option in this case isn't as clear as it was in my game.
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He's referring to how he WIFOM'd his way to town victory. That's not what I'm doing here - I'm just trying to bash Occam's Razor into his brain with a baseball bat. 
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It is to me Marvel. It's crystal clear to me.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:08 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 08:07 marvellosity wrote:On April 12 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well think of it this way marvel: what's more easy to believe? That a scumVE didn't thoroughly research his fake claim or an excited townVE wasn't thinking about his sanities when he made the ONE post regarding how quickly he could confirm his sanity? This is starting to get eerily like my Newbie endgame What happened then? God I am going to get so ribbed out post-game. Am I being an idiot? Is VE obvious obvious scum? sigh....
Sorry ET, I didn't mean to make it a private reference. At the end of my newbie game there were 3 of us, 2 town, 1 scum, and I was town. My entire argument at the end in trying to convince the other townie (who thought i was scum all game) was "do you really think i'm that fucking stupid".
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you can't have it both ways.
Most people would say that a townie would know his own role better than any other. That would suggest you're fake claiming.
Apparently there is equally valid sentiment that could go the other way, that you would have to plan the roleclaim and thus there's no way you would forget sanities!
IMO you don't have to plan a fakeclaim as scum, but whatever. Scum mess up claims all the time even if they're thought out, because scum don't play as that role throughout the game.
The other thing that completely demolishes the idea that only a town VE could forget his sanities is this post:
On April 12 2012 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Can I ask you guys something? If I'd have let it go down to the wire and told you like, 5 or 6pm if I were on the block, would it have mattered? I planned this claim if shit went south, and I honestly think that if everyone hadn't already had their minds made up it could have been a really good thing for the thread...but that wasn't the case. Would waiting have mattered at all guys?
regardless of his alignment, VE admitted that he planned the roleclaim. It was shitty planning, for sure, to forget sanities for a DT claim. That means careless townie or careless scum and anyone who is trying to swing it one way or another is not being objective.
It's not alignment indicative.
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On April 12 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well think of it this way marvel: what's more easy to believe? That a scumVE didn't thoroughly research his fake claim or an excited townVE wasn't thinking about his sanities when he made the ONE post regarding how quickly he could confirm his sanity?
The fuck? Mr. "TOAD YOU HAVE TO ASSUME YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE NIGHTKILLS AND TRYING TO READ ANYTHING INTO IT IS WIFOM" posts that?
You already did a post like that. You keep telling me my (reasonable) assumptions about what happened yesterday are wifom but something like that is is not?
You're desperate and trying to grasp at straws because you know that some moron might buy that bullshit that is the reason you are accusing me to be mafia while you are saying it is perfectly fine if you do it yourself.
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Actually, what the fuck am I saying.
VE is a liar.
On April 12 2012 02:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually guys, I've got this. I've thought it through, and this is pretty much the only way.
I'm Undercover Investigator Charles Williamson. I got a Guilty back on Toad last night, hence the instantaneous vote.
This is why I called for medic protection.
This is why I've been whining about dying N1.
This is why I said I'd be the "atmosphere police" this game.
My sanity is in question obviously, but I feel like Toad is acting scummy as shit and I'm probably Sane.
Thread thinkers, votes off me. Votes on the claimed scum plz. Scum and knaves who are sheeping Toad because you don't want to read the thread, feel free to continue voting for me and prepare for ultimate disappointment. We'll start killing you in order of scumminess as soon as Toad is done.
GG scum.
VE didn't forget about sanity mechanics, he's just lying out of his ass.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:11 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well think of it this way marvel: what's more easy to believe? That a scumVE didn't thoroughly research his fake claim or an excited townVE wasn't thinking about his sanities when he made the ONE post regarding how quickly he could confirm his sanity? The fuck? Mr. "TOAD YOU HAVE TO ASSUME YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE NIGHTKILLS AND TRYING TO READ ANYTHING INTO IT IS WIFOM" posts that? You already did a post like that. You keep telling me my (reasonable) assumptions about what happened yesterday are wifom but something like that is is not? You're desperate and trying to grasp at straws because you know that some moron might buy that bullshit that is the reason you are accusing me to be mafia while you are saying it is perfectly fine if you do it yourself.
The difference is your 'reasonable assumptions' could be interpreted in other 'reasonable' ways.
The question here is specifically on VE's actions, and the answer can be based on how we judge VE as a player overall as well as his general play in this game.
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There's no WIFOM in my case against you Toad, try again. I'm not even talking to you, I'm talking to Marvel about something you have no idea about. Go check it out if you want, like you care. Newbie VI
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EPT
