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When you have this much money on the line you are going to attract the best players in the world, aka players from korea.
It's a strange stance from an organization to have (I'm not saying NASL does have this stance but saying there are too many people that wouldn't mind them having):
"we got the best $$ in the business but we don't necessarily have the best players because of reason X".
Thats like the UFC offering the best prize money for fighters but don't want to attract the best fighters in the world because they would need to have translators before fights where fighters "trash talk" or share some personal experience.
I wonder how many of the westerns fans would stop watching UFC if the best fighters dominating the sport would be non westerns?
I understand many of the NA/EU pros wanting to have a korean limit. After all, for you guys it's about the $$ and the more koreans the less chance you are coming close to a single cent.
But not even admitting anything close to that but just going down the "hey, we have a different culture and this tourney is for a different audience than the audience that wants to see the best of the best duke out" road is a bit lame imo.
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I can name a bunch of Koreans who interact with some top foreign players. Rainbow interacts with HuK as far as I remember, and that's an ST to TL thing.
For example Startale interacts with torch and VT. Then the most obvious one is oGs, oGs is home to the best performing pros, they got mC and other very solid players.
Sure not every single one of them communicates or reaches out to the western scene but to generalize the scene as segregated as a whole is silly. Especially when gomtv itself is trying to globalize their scene by providing foreign spots, foreign housing, and housing a global tournament.
They do speak english, they do interact with top foreign players, everything youre saying is just really really sad closed minded excuses.
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On March 17 2011 08:24 adeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 08:23 Doso wrote:
Imo there shouldn't be any players from Korea in the NASL. They will just dominate the league, also games with them probably have a lot more lag. This isn't stopping the TSL, and there's no doubt in my mind the TSL will be the best non GSL tournament ever.
TSL will be played on US server. It is impossible to play on Korea server from EU.
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Opinions about Koreans from any of the potential applicants to the NASL in this thread shouldn't be taken seriously, since there's clearly a conflict of interest. If I wanted to compete in the NASL (or maybe in the future) of course I wouldn't want Koreans to be in the league.
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Wow. The koreans are showing that they are putting in more effort in the application vods than some of the US/EU players.
Anyways Cloud cant see the irony of moving to Germany for eps to get around protectionism of the German esporsts scene and then telling the Koreans not to come because "they belong in a completely different community". Kind of sad and funny but oh well
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I dont know why koreans should be left out of the tournament for any reason.
I mean, what are you even really trying to stop from happening?
should this mindset of not inviting certain ppl to the NASL be global?
They just live in Korea! theyre not doing anything wrong by happening to live in Korea.
but lets say we would make a rulebook that would make certain those nasty koreans dont come to ruin the NASL.
-people of skill level over 9000 cannot participate in NASL!
-yeah, any foreigner who dominates too hard shall be kicked out!
-people who live in gaming houses to practice and become as good as they can cannot participate!
-well, I guess the reason why foreigners will never be as good as koreans is obvious?
-if we dont want to commit as hard as they do, its our fault, not theirs.
dumb reason to prevent ppl from joining just because they are good after practicing hard.
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It's a little disappointing to see players not wanting certain people invited as they're afraid of playing them.
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On March 17 2011 08:28 MYM.ClouD wrote:
I give up at trying to explain hard work alone isn't going to take western players on par with koreans unless they go live and practice there. I wouldn't mind having a second GSL but remember, it would become a korean event and not a western event anymore. There's just too much difference, they don't speak english, don't interact with any foreign top player, have a structure that makes it possible for them to have the absolute best possible practice you can get without having the need to look outside their own country and speak with other players that are not koreans. Korean and western esports in Starcraft have always been divided and if you take them in the same place one succumbs to the other, they don't mix.
translation: I am mym.cloud and I have a sandy vagina. there shouldn't be any koreans in NASL because I will get my ass whooped. and yea why did we desegregate blacks and whites again? they should have been kept separate because obviously one is superior than other.
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On March 17 2011 08:33 Ronski wrote:
I dont know why koreans should be left out of the tournament for any reason.
I mean, what are you even really trying to stop from happening?
should this mindset of not inviting certain ppl to the NASL be global?
They just live in Korea! theyre not doing anything wrong by happening to live in Korea.
but lets say we would make a rulebook that would make certain those nasty koreans dont come to ruin the NASL.
-people of skill level over 9000 cannot participate in NASL!
-yeah, any foreigner who dominates too hard shall be kicked out!
-people who live in gaming houses to practice and become as good as they can cannot participate!
-well, I guess the reason why foreigners will never be as good as koreans is obvious?
-if we dont want to commit as hard as they do, its our fault, not theirs.
dumb reason to prevent ppl from joining just because they are good after practicing hard.
So why were you not complaining the same way when TSL was limiting number of Koreans?
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On March 17 2011 08:28 MYM.ClouD wrote:
I give up at trying to explain hard work alone isn't going to take western players on par with koreans unless they go live and practice there. I wouldn't mind having a second GSL but remember, it would become a korean event and not a western event anymore. There's just too much difference, they don't speak english, don't interact with any foreign top player, have a structure that makes it possible for them to have the absolute best possible practice you can get without having the need to look outside their own country and speak with other players that are not koreans. Korean and western esports in Starcraft have always been divided and if you take them in the same place one succumbs to the other, they don't mix.
Didn't know that this wasn't a globalized world with international economies and politics intertwining.
"I wouldn't mind having a second GSL but remember, it would become a korean event and not a western event anymore." So you classify a western event as having a Western winner?
" There's just too much difference, they don't speak english, don't interact with any foreign top player, have a structure that makes it possible for them to have the absolute best possible practice you can get without having the need to look outside their own country and speak with other players that are not koreans. " Since when is being different a bad thing? Are they not playing the same game as you? Them having an advantage and being better at a COMPETITIVE game makes them less eligible to win? Realllly awesome argument from a "pro" gamer. Funny that the team you are in actually sponsored some of the most successful WC3 korean players once.
"Korean and western esports in Starcraft have always been divided and if you take them in the same place one succumbs to the other, they don't mix." I'm pretty sure the fact that anyone in the world can enjoy the GSL is a proof that Korean and western Esports are intertwining. God you are worse than Pokebunny and Blur. Of course you are giving up this argument because it seems like that is what you do best.
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On March 17 2011 08:31 teamsolid wrote:
Opinions about Koreans from any of the potential applicants to the NASL in this thread shouldn't be taken seriously, since there's clearly a conflict of interest. If I wanted to compete in the NASL (or maybe in the future) of course I wouldn't want Koreans to be in the league.
The whole debate is stupid. If this was a 100k MLG with open registration you'd have people from Korea flying over to play in it, just like non koreans try to compete in GSL, and if anyone spoke out about that they would (I hope) be openly mocked for their stupidity. The whole invite system has derailed the entire thing imo. It has gone from the goal of making one of the best tournaments in the world to people wanting some big prize money low skill tournament or something, which makes no sense to me at all.
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You guys are right, top players like MVP would crush the competition and take the tournament easily. You should only invite code A players.
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This is where qualifiers kind of come in handy. I mean choosing 50 foreigners was going to be hard enough but throw in several korean teams and things get ridiculously complicated. I think the 5 koreans for season 1 is acceptable. Treat it kind of like a team and then adjust for your next 2 seasons. Ya it creates inconsistency in your method but I'm not sure NASL foresaw 2 full korean teams applying.
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This whole thing reminds me of the whole issue with Korean LPGA players (couple years back iirc). What's the deal with all these Koreans? 
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On March 17 2011 08:37 JBrown08 wrote:
You guys are right, top players like MVP would crush the competition and take the tournament easily. You should only invite code A players.
We should invite mvp hes code A.
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On March 17 2011 08:31 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 08:24 adeezy wrote:On March 17 2011 08:23 Doso wrote:
Imo there shouldn't be any players from Korea in the NASL. They will just dominate the league, also games with them probably have a lot more lag. This isn't stopping the TSL, and there's no doubt in my mind the TSL will be the best non GSL tournament ever. TSL will be played on US server. It is impossible to play on Korea server from EU.
WRONG, i asked this directly in the TSL thread, games will be played on the home players server based on seeding, then alternate back and forth.
source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201449¤tpage=5#85
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On March 17 2011 08:38 T0fuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 08:37 JBrown08 wrote:
You guys are right, top players like MVP would crush the competition and take the tournament easily. You should only invite code A players. We should invite mvp hes code A.
haha. spoilers please, but I already knew that
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On March 17 2011 08:36 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 08:31 teamsolid wrote:
Opinions about Koreans from any of the potential applicants to the NASL in this thread shouldn't be taken seriously, since there's clearly a conflict of interest. If I wanted to compete in the NASL (or maybe in the future) of course I wouldn't want Koreans to be in the league. The whole debate is stupid. If this was a 100k MLG with open registration you'd have people from Korea flying over to play in it, just like non koreans try to compete in GSL, and if anyone spoke out about that they would (I hope) be openly mocked for their stupidity. The whole invite system has derailed the entire thing imo. It has gone from the goal of making one of the best tournaments in the world to people wanting some big prize money low skill tournament or something, which makes no sense to me at all.
The MLG comparison is really dumb. MLG has found a different way of protecting their players. Just by geography (just like GSL) there is a strong hurdle for players from over sea. And with the unbelievable strong top 16 player protection they make sure that it makes no sense for too many others to come over for the tournament. MLG would never allow their tournament to have a majority of Koreans.
The NASL tournament system is so much more fair than MLG, yet they get more flak. Even before they have decided anything, Its ridiculous.
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If all the oGs guys and ST guys got invited it would only be like 10 or 12 players right? win win situation as its not to much. And i dont even see ALL of them getting invited
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anyone know what the korean fansites are saying about this topic?
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EPT
