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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 16:14 Aquanim wrote: And if you're wondering why I didn't comment on Bereft earlier, it's because I wanted to see the opinions of some lurkers before showing mine - but what the hell. Does this remind anyone of anything? | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
On November 23 2013 15:44 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of it reaffirms the points I brought up. The rest of it is along the lines of "in hindsight I should have done this" which is not any kind of explanation at all. Anyone can tell you what they should have done in hindsight to avoid telling you why they did what they did. thrawn, i specifically wrote that breakdown of my thought process because i'm pretty confident you are town and i don't want you to get derailed on me. i'm not sure how i can break it down further since there are only so many ways i can explain how when your top scum read = your policy lynch, it's a no-brainer. i included that bit about 'in hindsight' only because i'm not so proud to think that even though i was wrong, it was the smart or right lynch. but i do stand with the belief that it was a fair lynch. is it not clear to you from my post history why rayn was my top lynch yesterday? anyhow, moving on: @Holyflare Holyflare, do you have any actual intention of responding to this post? since you're willing to state you believe rayn was lynched, it's not reaching to believe you think moc, JJD, and myself are scum, correct? so where are your cases? On November 23 2013 03:34 Bereft wrote: Cora, Holyflare: if you think I (or JJD or Mocsta for that matter) are scum, come at me bro. let me know what specifically you find scummy about me and what issues you take with my play and I'll do my best to explain my thought process to you as I did with thrawn. don't FOS me on the basis that "rayn was town and since he was lynched his scum reads are probably right". that's a flimsy argument to make - being town does not make you infallible. do you honestly think JJD, mocsta, and I are the mafia trifecta, in your own independent assessments? if yes, tell me why, because I'm inclined to think rayn is 0 out of 3 on this one. i would like you to give your real thought process behind your claim, because i'm not buying this at all: On November 23 2013 12:06 Holyflare wrote: Like i said earlier "i think thrawn is very towny" so he was my most likely save, if i get vigd and flip doctor you then knew who my heal was on and so it stops any attempted shenanigans that scum can pull. He should get free town cred by way of this. If it gets to night 2 however and a double shot happens then seriously reconsider etc etc. That was my line of thought anyway considering you didn't respond to scib asking who your real save was, i'm inclined to think it was really thrawn. if so, what exactly was the strategy for claiming? you say it's so that if you were vig'd, town would know who you saved and by way of default thrawn is automatically cleared as town --> i don't believe this. aqua brought up a really good point: you would say this only if you were REALLY CONVINCED there's a doc AND a vig this game, because you know there's about a 0.0001% chance scum is going to hit you. also, thrawn is doing a decent enough job of getting town reads on his own, so how does you saving him PROVE he's town? this is equivalent to your "rayn's reads are right because he's town" argument, and i'll repeat: being town does not make you infallible. i also notice you don't say anything about what you think scum did or how you think they reacted to your claim. this is just weird to me, because surely you must've been going through it in your head and strategizing about whether to make a claim like that -- otherwise, what's the point? do you think they just left their vote on thrawn and let their KP go to waste? or do you think they had their vote on thrawn and instead of placing it on someone else, they decided to save their KP for tomorrow night instead? or do you think that there are other blue roles at play? (RB/vet/etc) | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 23 2013 17:58 thrawn2112 wrote: Aqua I think rayn was right about you. Sometime during N1 I started thinking that your posts sound extremely fake and this post looks like the most fake of all of them. I've highlighted all the parts that seem contrived. The last paragraph doesn't make any sense. We are at the very beginning of the cycle.. why wouldn't a jampi lynch tell us anything? There is still more than 40 hours to talk about him. There is a lot we can talk about in regards to a jampi lynch. For starters, I would like you to give your read on him, rather than by agreeing you will consolidate if needed, because that is something that most people will say about most lynches. What is your read on jampi? Jampidampi + Show Spoiler + His contributions have been decidedly lacklustre so far. He's been harping on about that single post of mine as pretty much his entire scumhunting content. The question I'm having difficulty answering is "Is this all Jampidampi is capable of as town?". If this was, say, Mocsta I'd lynch them out of hand, but this is kind of believable from a town Jampidampi. It's difficult for me to determine from my perspective whether he could reasonably believe I haven't answered his point about that post already. I'd appreciate anyone with an outside view weighing in with their perspective on this. For the record his argument is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=34#676 to which my reply is: How is observing that a player hasn't answered a question scummy? You can claim that my motivation was to "throw dirt on" Jampidampi, but that's only a single possible explanation for that post. Another one (and the correct one) is that I thought Jampidampi needed more incentive to answer the question and to offer more constructive opinions. I think I mentioned at some point during day 1 that this kind of paranoia about people "throwing dirt on me, oh teh noes" is somewhat more characteristic of town than scum. That does not, however, mean that I think a scum player *couldn't* pretend to be paranoid in that way. The fact of the matter is that Jampidampi's kept repeating that single, crappy point about me while largely ignoring the rest of my filter and saying as little as possible about anything else in the thread. If he's town I hope he picks up his play, otherwise we may just have to lynch him and pray he's not playing this badly as a townie. Conclusion: I'm not immediately eager to lynch Jampidampi (again the lynchbait argument), but if he continues to pass up on opportunities to contribute then my mind will change. There's only so much failure to contribute that I will tolerate. In short, Jampidampi's been useless, not adressed the rayn thing, sat on his vote on me, etc, I agree, but the one game of Jampidampi's I've seen (Newbie 34) he was similarly useless as town and got lynched for it. Therefore I don't have a high degree of confidence in determining Jampi's alignment either way. On the other hand, in TL Mafia 38 Rean was significantly more aggressive and free with his opinions than in this game. (link) I don't see anything meaningful I can say to your allegations of "contrived" rather than "I'm town". I have a wide vocabulary and sometimes I abuse it with flowery speech, if that's what you're getting at. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
On November 23 2013 18:09 thrawn2112 wrote: While I'm on the topic of Aquanim posts that seem contrived... Does this remind anyone of anything? no, what is it supposed to remind me of? if Aqua is scum, what's his motivation for taking the time to defend me? obviously if i'm scum the motivation is clear as day. but i know i am town, and say for a moment you accept this as fact too -- what's his motivation then? because i'm genuinely curious. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 18:29 Bereft wrote: no, what is it supposed to remind me of? if Aqua is scum, what's his motivation for taking the time to defend me? obviously if i'm scum the motivation is clear as day. but i know i am town, and say for a moment you accept this as fact too -- what's his motivation then? because i'm genuinely curious. Why not? It gives him something to talk about. Scum love having things to talk about that don't involve pushing mislynches. That explanation reminded me of the explanation Aquanim gave at the very beginning of the game when I first accused him of not scumhunting. It's too clean, too "townie," too much what "I want to hear" from a town player. On November 23 2013 18:11 Bereft wrote:\ thrawn, i specifically wrote that breakdown of my thought process because i'm pretty confident you are town and i don't want you to get derailed on me. i'm not sure how i can break it down further since there are only so many ways i can explain how when your top scum read = your policy lynch, it's a no-brainer. i included that bit about 'in hindsight' only because i'm not so proud to think that even though i was wrong, it was the smart or right lynch. but i do stand with the belief that it was a fair lynch. is it not clear to you from my post history why rayn was my top lynch yesterday? time for some real talk + Show Spoiler [bereft read this if you're town] + I can completely understand why someone in this game would have wanted to policy lynch rayn. I can almost understand someone wanting to policy lynch him even if they thought he was town. The problem is that you referred to it as a policy lynch so often that it is hard for me to figure out if you're town, or scum hiding behind the policy lynch. I did not policy lynch rayn. I am not sure if this makes me better or worse as a player, because it means my "final answer" read was incorrect but at least I did not lynch him for the "wrong" reasons. When you are policy lynching someone you are voting for them for reasons other than you are trying to lynch scum. When you decide to policy lynch, you've already resigned yourself to the fact that the lynch might be a mislynch, but you don't care. Not caring about a mislynch is illogical given a townie's win condition. So why would you do something illogical? Did the player piss you off? Do you hate their playstyle? I am going into the territory of what I told Mocsta in the big spoilered post I made during N1 so I won't repeat myself. I just think it's important to be mindful of the "reasons" for your reasons. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 23 2013 18:38 thrawn2112 wrote: ... That explanation reminded me of the explanation Aquanim gave at the very beginning of the game when I first accused him of not scumhunting. It's too clean, too "townie," too much what "I want to hear" from a town player. ... So you think I might be scum because my motives are too much like what you think a townie's motives should be? That says a hell of a lot about this forum. Look, I'm sick of this. My defence of my play IS my play. If you look at my posts and you seriously think that I am not a townie playing to my wincondition as best I can, then lynch me. Otherwise, get out of my face and let me do my thing to catch scum. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 18:43 Aquanim wrote: So you think I might be scum because my motives are too much like what you think a townie's motives should be? That says a hell of a lot about this forum. Look, I'm sick of this. My defence of my play IS my play. If you look at my posts and you seriously think that I am not a townie playing to my wincondition as best I can, then lynch me. Otherwise, get out of my face and let me do my thing to catch scum. No that is not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that your explanations "seem" townie, but are followed by a very bad aftertaste. And I'm not "in your face," I'm talking to Bereft. | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
real talk yo (i don't know how to add headers in spoiler) + Show Spoiler + i'm pretty new to mafia so maybe i misunderstand the connotations behind the phrase "policy lynch" because i do not mean to imply i didn't give a shit about mislynching. i didn't lynch rayn because i was angry and i didn't care what he would flip. whenever i vote for a lynch candidate, i'm never 100% confident. what i've been trying to say is that with rayn, i had a high confidence level he was scum (placing numbers on this is a bit arbitrary, but let's say 85%). with every lynch you have to think about the risk/reward involved. so in my head, it was like i had an 85% chance of hitting scum and a 15% chance of hitting town. but IF i was wrong and i did hit town, it was not a total waste of a lynch because i believed a town rayn would hinder the town win con. i did read your rant to Mocsta, and i will admit it influenced the very hindsight analysis you criticized. i wanted to analyze my actions without being proud, and to discern whether i subconsciously lost sight of the correct objective, or correct line of reasoning, if you will. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
Serious question how new are you? This drasticly influeances my read on you. Im going to make my case on you anyway because its halfway done and alot of is still relevant for you to answer | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
On November 22 2013 14:10 Aquanim wrote: I'm inclined to think that after pushing my wagon hard at the start of the day and being a pretty strong townread for most people it's entirely understandable that a town Thrawn would decide to step back a little. If one apes the spotlight for the entire day then that doesn't give you as much opportunity to learn about other people. I agree that if he does not maintain a high thread presence going forward I will be reassessing Thrawn. what was the point behind this? it comes off as fluff. or is it meant to be a soft defense of thrawn with the caveat that he needs more activity? that being said, i think Aqua would be a horrible lynch for today given the other candidates out there. unless he shoots himself in the foot / something in the thread drastically changes, i can pretty safely say i won't be voting for him today. | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:05 Onegu wrote: @bereft Serious question how new are you? This drasticly influeances my read on you. Im going to make my case on you anyway because its halfway done and alot of is still relevant for you to answer so... what you're saying is your case which you've spent hours upon hours writing rests largely on me being a newb? ...i look forward to reading it. if you are so convinced i'm scum, and my "meta" (i'm using the word "meta" loosely -- here my "meta" would be being a noob) can "drastically influence" your read on me, do you not think it worth your time to glance over a previous scum game of mine? versus say, spending a million hours writing up a case. here, have one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432880&user=Bereft the filter is only 2 pages. it should only take about 15 minutes, then you can go back to spending another 4 hours writing the 2nd half of your case. | ||
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:08 Bereft wrote: Aqua, you shouldn't get mad, you should get flattered! the only reason you're on my "town I ought to reevaluate" list is because from your analysis, articulation, phrasing, etc, i think you're smart and highly capable of being scum while coming off as pro-town. and I guess this post (I really don't like this post): what was the point behind this? it comes off as fluff. or is it meant to be a soft defense of thrawn with the caveat that he needs more activity? that being said, i think Aqua would be a horrible lynch for today given the other candidates out there. unless he shoots himself in the foot / something in the thread drastically changes, i can pretty safely say i won't be voting for him today. I think that that post accurately expressed my opinion of Thrawn at a time when he was being discussed. I thought it would be a good idea to expose my thought process re. Thrawn since I hadn't spoken about him in some time. At the same time, since I think that Thrawn's town I didn't think that further disucssion of a point against him which I believed was flawed (namely that his decreased thread presence was significantly scummy) would be productive, and so I argued against it. + Show Spoiler + I mean, if Thrawn suddenly drops off the map with no explanation that'll be a problem as I expressed in the last sentence. But I don't think there's any risk of that, and it's not particularly useful to theorise about that possibility at this point. I agree that that post is more fluffy and less useful than a lot I've made. They can't all be perfect. I still think it accomplished its purpose though. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 23 2013 19:17 Bereft wrote: so... what you're saying is your case which you've spent hours upon hours writing rests largely on me being a newb? ...i look forward to reading it. if you are so convinced i'm scum, and my "meta" (i'm using the word "meta" loosely -- here my "meta" would be being a noob) can "drastically influence" your read on me, do you not think it worth your time to glance over a previous scum game of mine? versus say, spending a million hours writing up a case. here, have one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432880&user=Bereft the filter is only 2 pages. it should only take about 15 minutes, then you can go back to spending another 4 hours writing the 2nd half of your case. No it has to do with my ability to read newbies, and stop I have already said Im not at home and playing this game isnt my top priority at the moment, but I here I responding to people and makeing the case, you will get it. And basicly I was asking if this was the only site you have played on, but your really agressive answer to a simple question is telling. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 11:43 Holyflare wrote: I am doctor and I saved thrawn. I completely forgot that this happened.... I don't know what to think about it. He said he claimed because he thought he would be vig'd so he was gonna try to confirm me as town? That..... doesn't make sense? I don't know. I can see this happening if he's a 1 shot doctor but that's not what he claimed. I don't know what to make of this: On November 23 2013 11:53 Holyflare wrote: If i survive you get your doctor for another night, if i die you don't really lose a player Somebody make sure and grill HF on his claim and all else when he gets back. What's most concerning is that his explanation for his claim changed almost every time someone asked him another question about it. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Thrawn I think you just have some sort of mental block regarding Aquanim. Either it's confirmation bias or you just don't like the way he talks idk. I pretty much agree with all of his reads and everything he's said this entire game. I can't really see a scum player being so inside my head. You two are probably my strongest townreads and I strongly think we should look elsewhere. So here are the people I'd consider lynching today (same list as Aquanim): Cora, Onegu, rean, holyflare, jamp holyflare's claim is sketchy as hell and we definitely do need to grill him about it. But lynching a claimed doctor on the day he claims (before LYLO) doesn't make a whole ton of sense especially because scum might have two shots for tomorrow. So even if they shoot him he could make a save. If two people die then we'd have to very seriously consider lynching him D3. Rean and jamp literally have not posted more than once in like 2 days I think. Between the two I think what there is of Rean's filter is significantly scummier, and depending on what he does (or doesn't do) today he could very realistically be the best lynch. I thought Onegu looked slightly better for interacting with the thread for once, until he started talking about how it would be best to martyr himself. I want to see these cases on Bereft and Mocsta. Cora I'm still leaning scum on and I'd be willing to lynch him today, but only if the above players demonstrate some towniness. Also we need to get this question answered now Will players such as Rean and jamp be modkilled or replaced if they do not vote today? | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
guys, sorry i'm still catching up on the thread (i know you hardxcore mafia players will laugh at this - "it's only 25 pages!" but here are my reasons for my scum lean on the following players: Cora+ Show Spoiler + i'm going to skip going over the whole early shaky scum read on scib since that's already been covered and addressed pretty thoroughly. things that stood out to me: On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote: Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro. The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now. i think this post is really bad. i find it pretty odd that he finds it necessary to point out that scib is "piggy backing" on him and proceeds to waste an exchange with scib on whether they were in fact clarifying the same thing with thrawn. i find it hard to find a reason why townies would have this exchange or even care. who cares? he doesn't just mention this once. he argues the point SEVERAL times and is still bringing it up ages later (along with scib's bullshit page 1 "read") as the basis for his scum read: On November 21 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: This is a stupid read and smells of fake scum-hunting: This is the post where he basically copies me and then denies it: This is where he denies copying me and he twists my words to make it look like I already assumed they were masons: Rean+ Show Spoiler + wastes his first few posts just agreeing or clarifying things, and he's not even being useful in his clarifications. what i really don't like is that when i specifically call him out to pick his brain, he doesn't even give me *ANY* interpretation of what he thinks of the player. it's totally ambiguous. then, when Aqua calls him out, his answer is totally wishy washy and shady -- gives a town-read but 100% hedges it: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote: i also find the interactions between cora and rean pretty weird and incongruous. even something small like cora calling rean out for asking for town reads i find a pretty weird point to common on -- the exchange is pointless as he doesn't draw any conclusion from it and just seems to be critiquing rean's play. what i also find noteworthy is that: (A) rean first FOS's sciberia when sciberia asks for his top scum read. (B) rean gives a soft defense of cora to moc (C) but then suddenly cora becomes a scum read and he says: BUT THEN!! after aqua votes for him, IN THE VERY NEXT POST: i spent 10 mins trying to fix those quotes in the rean spoiler. i give up, sorry guys. going through aqua and onegu's filters now. A few things about this post the only thing he finds scummy is coras atk on scib about him piggybacking him about the mason thing. This is far from damning, I didnt like it either but Im not going to give cora a scum read for this. It really looks like nitpicking to me. Second the case on rean is completely unreadable and he never gives a tldr later. While this isnt scummy its at least null . And the lack of a tldr even when voteing rean. He just calls out rean for a different post. Also here he says he is reading my filter. [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 12:45 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 07:08 cDgCorazon wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 07:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Corazon i believe sciberbia when he says it was a discussion starter (the first post). Do you believe you two may have just looked things differently about your mason-incident? Because i find that to be the most likely explanation. I don't think either of you is lying or trying to make shit up, you just read each other's posts differently. I agree with you on Aquanim and Onegu. What do you think of Bereft?[/QUOTE] I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to think of Bereft, other than the fact that he is lurking. I hate lurker lynches D1. I wonder if he will come back. If I may return the favor, how do you feel about LoneMeow? Would you place him on the same lurker level as Bereft? The one post I remember of his was not a very good one.[/QUOTE] also, phrasing on this stood out to me. think whatever you want! you're not obligated to feel any particular way about me.[/QUOTE] He never says if this is scummy, just it stuck out to him, and why there is nothing wrong with his wording again I feel this is nitpicking. [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote: Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote: Forgot this: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red". [/QUOTE] I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments.[/QUOTE] i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed. if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read. ##Vote: Rean[/QUOTE] Why is this post even remotely scummy, because he defends someone he thinks is scummy, but he wasnt he was saying what they were atacking him for wasnt legit. In no way does he admit to defending cora. He never takes his read off of cora. And he straight up says he isnt defending him. I think berefts vote at this point is nothing with very little in terms actual scum reads. [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 13:11 cDgCorazon wrote: Bereft, I would like to know why you don't think we should lynch Onegu. I was really puzzled when you threw that read out (as were others) and I just want to know why you see Onegu in a good light. When you said you thought he was town I got this feeling that we weren't reading the same game.[/QUOTE] i like that he came into the thread with a bunch of off the cuff reads -- to me this reads as careless, unstructured, bold. [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote: [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote: [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad. Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem. Now to my goals/early game statements: 1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either. 2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote. 3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos. On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game. [/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>[/QUOTE] Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. [/QUOTE] if he's scum, this is not at all a "safe" post to bust into the thread with. i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out. i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts. he's the first person to really do this, and if scum, i think this is also pretty bold because mocsta's obviously an aggressive player. i was accused of being scum and attempting to disrupt a town circle for telling mocsta to explain himself. he gives me a very very slight town lean (exact phrasing "starting to look better") at a time when it's totally unnecessary to do so, considering everyone else would most likely have slotted me into the "lurker, null, need to hear more from" category if prodded. admittedly his last post is a jumbled mess and i have no idea what he's saying with this: [quote]Im going to go over your reads here and just ask you how you came to these because alot were null to me or the exact opposite of what you wrote so lets go. 1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken... 2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post. 3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling. 4 this is fine 5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read? 6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control. 7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip. 8 again not a scumslip 9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful. 10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie? 12 meh ok 12b also fine 13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this? 14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing... 15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean. 16 again why post a completely null post? 17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town 18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since. 19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on 20 admit to being tunneled 21 this is fine 22 tunneled 23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine. 24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd.[/quote] but i do think it's a very strong point in his favor that his posts are coming off as being written with a lack of care as to how they'd be perceived. [/QUOTE] Here is his defense of me, but my post on the bottom look at the part he quotes, its not the whole thing its just the part on mocsta, this is important because later he somehow thinks this is a case on cora. This is big why only quote the part where it is a case on mocosta but fail to realize it is a case on mocsta. The answer is he is scum and setting up town cred for defending someone alot of people had scum reads on at the time without actually reading what I wrote. [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 13:50 Bereft wrote: rayn, i think your line of attack is weird. you didn't respond to what i just said. and are you really going to bed when i'm around right now and willing to engage? [/QUOTE] I really dont like this, cora you read this too, people cant always be around when you are deal with it, no reason to call them out for it. Its not really scummy but you shouldnt call people out like this [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 14:21 Bereft wrote: hmm. i think you need to reread my post. i'm not yelling at him for going to sleep. i'm taking issue with the fact that he pounces on what i perceive to be a really weak, non-issue (granted, it's directed at me, so i'm biased), doesn't appear to even read what i say in response, and then says "it's fucking scummy - i'm going to bed". does that make sense to you? why don't you bold where i'm calling him scum? i'm asking him what he's trying to accomplish. if it's obvious to you what he's trying to accomplish, please enlighten me.[/QUOTE] Nope you said " are you really going to bed when i'm around right now and willing to engage?" that is calling him out for going to sleep. Your response backpeddleing is more telling then you calling him out in the first place. [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 14:35 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 14:28 Onegu wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 05:33 cDgCorazon wrote: Onegu, I know you are better at this game then your case on me. You fail to look at anything I have said about those posts and the information/logic you are using to vote for me is nothing original. I have not seen anything original in that case which leaves me worried about whether you are scum or not. The whole game you've done nothing productive to the town. That case was so bad it's anti-productive. Try harder.[/QUOTE] I never made a case on you its a case on mocsta where the quote tags got messed up somehow...[/QUOTE] if it's not a case on cora, what's your case for voting cora? [/QUOTE] Here is the crux of the matter you quoted my filter, cut off the portion that was a case on mocsta and here you think its a case on cora, this is impossible if you are town as you would have actually read my filter not just pick things out for no reason. [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 00:00 Bereft wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Rayn I think its completely irrational for a townie to bust into the thread the way rayn is doing now flinging shit like an angry bull. there is no reason for him to be behaving this way as town.[/QUOTE] Here is your unvote of rean who after you voted you never mention again. This why I dont think you vote on rean was real, it was just something to do. [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 02:19 Bereft wrote: also cmon Onegu m'boy. I gave you a town read when no one else thought so. live up to the high hopes I have for you and make the right vote![/QUOTE] Pleads me to vote because he gave me a town read. Also Im not going to comment on his rayn case because its null, I can see town or scum tunneling into rayn if they dont know him. [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 09:27 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 09:21 Mocsta wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 09:18 Bereft wrote: mocsta, are you serious? [/QUOTE] Yes (if its true) Im still catching up on the thread so do not know whether onegu is stating fact, or interpretation. Either way, if it is interpretation I don't think it was malicious,[/QUOTE] ok, fair enough. i'm around and happy to expand or explain my thought process, we're less than 3 hours away from a lynch, you do realize? in my post where i wrote why i think onegu is town, i've explicitly stated that i've no idea towards the end of his massive stream of consciousness post what he's trying to say: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2013 13:11 cDgCorazon wrote: Bereft, I would like to know why you don't think we should lynch Onegu. I was really puzzled when you threw that read out (as were others) and I just want to know why you see Onegu in a good light. When you said you thought he was town I got this feeling that we weren't reading the same game.[/QUOTE] i like that he came into the thread with a bunch of off the cuff reads -- to me this reads as careless, unstructured, bold. [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote: [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote: [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad. Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem. Now to my goals/early game statements: 1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either. 2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote. 3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos. On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game. [/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>[/QUOTE] Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. [/QUOTE] if he's scum, this is not at all a "safe" post to bust into the thread with. i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out. i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts. he's the first person to really do this, and if scum, i think this is also pretty bold because mocsta's obviously an aggressive player. i was accused of being scum and attempting to disrupt a town circle for telling mocsta to explain himself. he gives me a very very slight town lean (exact phrasing "starting to look better") at a time when it's totally unnecessary to do so, considering everyone else would most likely have slotted me into the "lurker, null, need to hear more from" category if prodded. admittedly his last post is a jumbled mess and i have no idea what he's saying with this: [quote]Im going to go over your reads here and just ask you how you came to these because alot were null to me or the exact opposite of what you wrote so lets go. 1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken... 2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post. 3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling. 4 this is fine 5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read? 6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control. 7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip. 8 again not a scumslip 9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful. 10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie? 12 meh ok 12b also fine 13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this? 14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing... 15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean. 16 again why post a completely null post? 17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town 18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since. 19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on 20 admit to being tunneled 21 this is fine 22 tunneled 23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine. 24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd.[/quote] but i do think it's a very strong point in his favor that his posts are coming off as being written with a lack of care as to how they'd be perceived. [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] This is BS just because you got called out, if you actually read it you would see in the first line I am calling out the posters thought process, who is the poster mocsta, and the reason this is BS is because you quoted the cut off part. [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 10:01 Bereft wrote: @scib, i will agree that my stance on onegu has changed since yesterday and he's been completely useless. but i don't think he's a better lynch than rayn at the moment. i can't find any aspect of rayn's posting rational as a townie, and i've tried. i don't care if shit flinging is his usual style of playing. the bottom line is that there is no townie SENSE or LOGIC behind any of his shit flinging in this case. it does not make any sense for him to behave like this.[/QUOTE] Here he changes his read of me for being useless. Since when is that a scum tell? He changed his read on me because I pointed out he isnt acrually reading. [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 11:34 Bereft wrote: Aqua, I agree. hands up - who is willing to lynch Cora? I am.[/QUOTE] Tunnels rayn but ok to vote cora now. [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 11:42 Bereft wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2013 11:16 sciberbia wrote: + Show Spoiler [Bereft] + On November 22 2013 10:59 Bereft wrote: scib, here's the thing. i am not unwilling to compromise. it's not like i have no doubt in my mind. but rayn is not just my strongest read -- i don't see any value in keeping him around. as i stated when i voted for him, i think he's incredibly antitown with a terribly off-putting attitude. of course that attitude is gone now that he's under fire, but i think the way he busted into this thread on his high horse around page 33 is unacceptable. if you can give me a strong case on why rayn is town and worth keeping around and why onegu/rean/cora are a better lynch, i will consider it. @Bereft I can't make a strong case that rayn is town, as I'm honestly not sure what to expect from a scum rayn, but I do think that everything I've seen from him this game town rayn is capable of doing. Also I don't like the idea of lynching someone because "if he's town then he's worthless so it's a win-win". I dislike it in general. And specifically to rayn, if this helps you not lynch him, the last two times I've played with town rayn he has contributed significantly to town after questionable day 1's. There's nothing more for me to say about onegu, cora, and rean as they are all NOT HERE, which should be telling. What is holding you back from lynching them?[/QUOTE] also, it's not so relevant now that Cora has unvoted, but I drew you this: [img]http://i.imgur.com/nsg2TE5.png[/img] [/QUOTE] My problem is this he tunnels him the entire time but posts this I dont understand his motivation. Then he never really pushes a cora lynch, he never gives reasons for it just we need people to switch. And his first scum read rean is never mentioned again. | ||
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Lynching outside of those 4 doesn't make a lot of sense to me as the rest of the players are much more active/useful and also happen to be less likely to be scum imo. | ||
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