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@Sciberbia:
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Rean and jamp literally have not posted more than once in like 2 days I think. Between the two I think what there is of Rean's filter is significantly scummier, and depending on what he does (or doesn't do) today he could very realistically be the best lynch.
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I obviously don't disagree with you, but what are your reasons for thinking Rean is a better lynch than Jampidampi? I'm aware they may at least partially overlap with mine but I'd like to hear you express them in your own words.
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@Aquanim
Sure. Here's some more exposition on what makes Rean scummy to me.
+ Show Spoiler [Rean] +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. On November 20 2013 13:43 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:40 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. Do you find this behavior suspicious from Aquanim or are you simply making an observation? An observation, it don't say much about his alignment. But I'm curious as to his answer.
I don't like Rean's start to the game. He looked to content to hover around the thread and not actually do anything. For example, what is the point of the bolded sentence above? He comes to no conclusion about Aquanim's alignment, but throws out some general remark about his play. I don't like it because it's dirt-throwy and I just don't see any reason to include that sentence as town. I see two motivations as scum: look like you are paying attention / doing something and throwing dirt at Aquanim.
+ Show Spoiler [calls me scummy] +On November 20 2013 13:57 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:51 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:49 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next. I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=7#127 Ah yes, my bad. Do you think Corazon's argument that sciberbia is scum is persuasive? Why or why not? Persuasive...it's a good argument. Sciberbia was being more laidback, trying to avoid comitting to anything, so it definitely makes him look scummy. Overall the kind of argument that gets discussion started and gets us somewhere useful, I quite like it. Guess persuasive would be a decent way to describe it.
He has to be practically talked into his first read. He calls me scummy only when specifically asked to comment. His play in this post and in general feels reactive and not proactive.
Repeatedly calling out lurkers on D1 is typical of scum in my experience. There really isn't anything to say about them. They're lurking. It's obvious. But if scum feel some heat they may try to shift the spotlight elsewhere. And there's nobody easier to criticize than people who haven't posted at all.
+ Show Spoiler [excessive attention to lurkers] +On November 20 2013 14:00 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:57 sciberbia wrote:
@Rean
What is your strongest scumread right now and why? Strongest doesnt say much atm since 5 out of 12 have been silent so far but I'm not feeling so good about you for reasons I already explained. On November 21 2013 04:37 Rean wrote:
Other than that, Lonemeow is lurking hard. Whether he's simply not around or choosing to lay low I don't know but I want to hear some more.
On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:
Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
....
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
This post has been covered. He agrees with Mocsta's conclusions but then accuses Mocsta of confirmation bias in coming to those conclusions. Seems awkward from a townie perspective.
As I said before, one thing I do find townie is his irritation at me calling him scum and his insistence that I explain myself.
+ Show Spoiler [scummy post] +On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
Aquanim is still going around repeating points that have already been answered and I feel the same. But I'm scared I might be tunneling too hard so I'll go reread his filter with an open mind.
Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
Why is that everyone here is so anxious about me mentioning lurkers though? It seems to me like with your attitudes you automatically assume anyone that mentions lurkers ever is scum, but that way people can get away with lurking hard and not contributing a god damn thing. I find it really fishy that both Aqua and Scib seem so paranoid of me for trying to call out lurkers >.>
He's wishy washy and seems scared to take a firm stand on anything in this post. Is he calling me scum or not? I don't really know. He kinda is but kinda isn't. Is he calling Onegu scum or not? He kinda is but kinda isn't. Even Aquanim he is hedging his bets on. Why does he not like this Onegu wagon at all? Reasoning is flimsy.
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[QUOTE]On November 21 2013 12:43 Bereft wrote:
guys, sorry i'm still catching up on the thread (i know you hardxcore mafia players will laugh at this - "it's only 25 pages!" but here are my reasons for my scum lean on the following players:
Cora+ Show Spoiler +i'm going to skip going over the whole early shaky scum read on scib since that's already been covered and addressed pretty thoroughly. things that stood out to me: On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler [cora] +On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other @thrawn You are masons? Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it. I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing. My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..." Your post said "you are mason?" So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing". @cora You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason. + Show Spoiler [cora] +
I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.
Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.
@cora Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far. Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro. The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now. i think this post is really bad. i find it pretty odd that he finds it necessary to point out that scib is "piggy backing" on him and proceeds to waste an exchange with scib on whether they were in fact clarifying the same thing with thrawn. i find it hard to find a reason why townies would have this exchange or even care. who cares? he doesn't just mention this once. he argues the point SEVERAL times and is still bringing it up ages later (along with scib's bullshit page 1 "read") as the basis for his scum read: On November 21 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote:This is a stupid read and smells of fake scum-hunting: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police! I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said. agree or disagree. This is the post where he basically copies me and then denies it: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other @thrawn You are masons? Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it. I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing. This is where he denies copying me and he twists my words to make it look like I already assumed they were masons: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler [cora] +On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other @thrawn You are masons? Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it. I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing. My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..." Your post said "you are mason?" So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing". @cora You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason. Show nested quote +as i mentioned here: On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive? I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game. Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter. and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game? did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum. do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you? i find it extremely odd he doesn't find mocsta's behavior from page 1 even worth mentioning if he takes so much issue with page 1 reads.
Rean+ Show Spoiler +wastes his first few posts just agreeing or clarifying things, and he's not even being useful in his clarifications. what i really don't like is that when i specifically call him out to pick his brain, he doesn't even give me *ANY* interpretation of what he thinks of the player. it's totally ambiguous. then, when Aqua calls him out, his answer is totally wishy washy and shady -- gives a town-read but 100% hedges it: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? I'd say town, scum is typically more laidback. But could just be a good scumbag. i also find the interactions between cora and rean pretty weird and incongruous. even something small like cora calling rean out for asking for town reads i find a pretty weird point to common on -- the exchange is pointless as he doesn't draw any conclusion from it and just seems to be critiquing rean's play. what i also find noteworthy is that: (A) rean first FOS's sciberia when sciberia asks for his top scum read. (B) rean gives a soft defense of cora to moc (C) but then suddenly cora becomes a scum read and he says: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me. And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind. BUT THEN!! after aqua votes for him, IN THE VERY NEXT POST: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
i spent 10 mins trying to fix those quotes in the rean spoiler. i give up, sorry guys. going through aqua and onegu's filters now.
A few things about this post the only thing he finds scummy is coras atk on scib about him piggybacking him about the mason thing. This is far from damning, I didnt like it either but Im not going to give cora a scum read for this. It really looks like nitpicking to me.Second the case on rean is completely unreadable and he never gives a tldr later. While this isnt scummy its at least null . And the lack of a tldr even when voteing rean. He just calls out rean for a different post.Also here he says he is reading my filter.
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On November 21 2013 12:45 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 07:08 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 21 2013 07:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Corazon i believe sciberbia when he says it was a discussion starter (the first post). Do you believe you two may have just looked things differently about your mason-incident? Because i find that to be the most likely explanation. I don't think either of you is lying or trying to make shit up, you just read each other's posts differently.
I agree with you on Aquanim and Onegu. What do you think of Bereft? I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to think of Bereft, other than the fact that he is lurking. I hate lurker lynches D1. I wonder if he will come back. If I may return the favor, how do you feel about LoneMeow? Would you place him on the same lurker level as Bereft? The one post I remember of his was not a very good one. also, phrasing on this stood out to me. think whatever you want! you're not obligated to feel any particular way about me.
He never says if this is scummy, just it stuck out to him, and why there is nothing wrong with his wording again I feel this is nitpicking.
On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:Forgot this: On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments. i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed. if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read. ##Vote: Rean
Why is this post even remotely scummy, because he defends someone he thinks is scummy, but he wasnt he was saying what they were atacking him for wasnt legit. In no way does he admit to defending cora. He never takes his read off of cora. And he straight up says he isnt defending him. I think berefts vote at this point is nothing with very little in terms actual scum reads.
On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bereft, I would like to know why you don't think we should lynch Onegu. I was really puzzled when you threw that read out (as were others) and I just want to know why you see Onegu in a good light. When you said you thought he was town I got this feeling that we weren't reading the same game. i like that he came into the thread with a bunch of off the cuff reads -- to me this reads as careless, unstructured, bold. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. if he's scum, this is not at all a "safe" post to bust into the thread with. i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out. i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts. he's the first person to really do this, and if scum, i think this is also pretty bold because mocsta's obviously an aggressive player. i was accused of being scum and attempting to disrupt a town circle for telling mocsta to explain himself. he gives me a very very slight town lean (exact phrasing "starting to look better") at a time when it's totally unnecessary to do so, considering everyone else would most likely have slotted me into the "lurker, null, need to hear more from" category if prodded. admittedly his last post is a jumbled mess and i have no idea what he's saying with this: Show nested quote +Im going to go over your reads here and just ask you how you came to these because alot were null to me or the exact opposite of what you wrote so lets go.
1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd. but i do think it's a very strong point in his favor that his posts are coming off as being written with a lack of care as to how they'd be perceived.
Here is his defense of me, but my post on the bottom look at the part he quotes, its not the whole thing its just the part on mocsta, this is important because later he somehow thinks this is a case on cora. This is big why only quote the part where it is a case on mocosta but fail to realize it is a case on mocsta. The answer is he is scum and setting up town cred for defending someone alot of people had scum reads on at the time without actually reading what I wrote.
On November 21 2013 13:50 Bereft wrote:
rayn, i think your line of attack is weird. you didn't respond to what i just said. and are you really going to bed when i'm around right now and willing to engage?
I really dont like this, cora you read this too, people cant always be around when you are deal with it, no reason to call them out for it. Its not really scummy but you shouldnt call people out like this
On November 21 2013 14:21 Bereft wrote:
hmm. i think you need to reread my post. i'm not yelling at him for going to sleep. i'm taking issue with the fact that he pounces on what i perceive to be a really weak, non-issue (granted, it's directed at me, so i'm biased), doesn't appear to even read what i say in response, and then says "it's fucking scummy - i'm going to bed". does that make sense to you?
why don't you bold where i'm calling him scum? i'm asking him what he's trying to accomplish. if it's obvious to you what he's trying to accomplish, please enlighten me.
Nope you said " are you really going to bed when i'm around right now and willing to engage?" that is calling him out for going to sleep. Your response backpeddleing is more telling then you calling him out in the first place.
On November 21 2013 14:35 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 14:28 Onegu wrote:On November 21 2013 05:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
Onegu, I know you are better at this game then your case on me. You fail to look at anything I have said about those posts and the information/logic you are using to vote for me is nothing original. I have not seen anything original in that case which leaves me worried about whether you are scum or not.
The whole game you've done nothing productive to the town. That case was so bad it's anti-productive. Try harder. I never made a case on you its a case on mocsta where the quote tags got messed up somehow... if it's not a case on cora, what's your case for voting cora?
Here is the crux of the matter you quoted my filter, cut off the portion that was a case on mocsta and here you think its a case on cora, this is impossible if you are town as you would have actually read my filter not just pick things out for no reason.
On November 22 2013 00:00 Bereft wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn
I think its completely irrational for a townie to bust into the thread the way rayn is doing now flinging shit like an angry bull. there is no reason for him to be behaving this way as town.
Here is your unvote of rean who after you voted you never mention again. This why I dont think you vote on rean was real, it was just something to do.
On November 22 2013 02:19 Bereft wrote:
also cmon Onegu m'boy. I gave you a town read when no one else thought so. live up to the high hopes I have for you and make the right vote!
Pleads me to vote because he gave me a town read. Also Im not going to comment on his rayn case because its null, I can see town or scum tunneling into rayn if they dont know him.
On November 22 2013 09:27 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 09:21 Mocsta wrote:On November 22 2013 09:18 Bereft wrote:
mocsta, are you serious? Yes (if its true) Im still catching up on the thread so do not know whether onegu is stating fact, or interpretation. Either way, if it is interpretation I don't think it was malicious, ok, fair enough. i'm around and happy to expand or explain my thought process, we're less than 3 hours away from a lynch, you do realize? in my post where i wrote why i think onegu is town, i've explicitly stated that i've no idea towards the end of his massive stream of consciousness post what he's trying to say: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote:On November 21 2013 13:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bereft, I would like to know why you don't think we should lynch Onegu. I was really puzzled when you threw that read out (as were others) and I just want to know why you see Onegu in a good light. When you said you thought he was town I got this feeling that we weren't reading the same game. i like that he came into the thread with a bunch of off the cuff reads -- to me this reads as careless, unstructured, bold. On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. if he's scum, this is not at all a "safe" post to bust into the thread with. i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out. i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts. he's the first person to really do this, and if scum, i think this is also pretty bold because mocsta's obviously an aggressive player. i was accused of being scum and attempting to disrupt a town circle for telling mocsta to explain himself. he gives me a very very slight town lean (exact phrasing "starting to look better") at a time when it's totally unnecessary to do so, considering everyone else would most likely have slotted me into the "lurker, null, need to hear more from" category if prodded. admittedly his last post is a jumbled mess and i have no idea what he's saying with this:Im going to go over your reads here and just ask you how you came to these because alot were null to me or the exact opposite of what you wrote so lets go.
1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd. but i do think it's a very strong point in his favor that his posts are coming off as being written with a lack of care as to how they'd be perceived.
This is BS just because you got called out, if you actually read it you would see in the first line I am calling out the posters thought process, who is the poster mocsta, and the reason this is BS is because you quoted the cut off part.
On November 22 2013 10:01 Bereft wrote:
@scib, i will agree that my stance on onegu has changed since yesterday and he's been completely useless. but i don't think he's a better lynch than rayn at the moment. i can't find any aspect of rayn's posting rational as a townie, and i've tried. i don't care if shit flinging is his usual style of playing. the bottom line is that there is no townie SENSE or LOGIC behind any of his shit flinging in this case. it does not make any sense for him to behave like this.
Here he changes his read of me for being useless. Since when is that a scum tell? He changed his read on me because I pointed out he isnt acrually reading.
On November 22 2013 11:34 Bereft wrote:
Aqua, I agree. hands up - who is willing to lynch Cora? I am.
Tunnels rayn but ok to vote cora now.
On November 22 2013 11:42 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 11:16 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +On November 22 2013 10:59 Bereft wrote:scib, here's the thing. i am not unwilling to compromise. it's not like i have no doubt in my mind. but rayn is not just my strongest read -- i don't see any value in keeping him around. as i stated when i voted for him, i think he's incredibly antitown with a terribly off-putting attitude. of course that attitude is gone now that he's under fire, but i think the way he busted into this thread on his high horse around page 33 is unacceptable. Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 00:15 Bereft wrote:
basically I agree 100% with what thrawn said. rayns acting in a manner that makes it quite unlikely he's town, but in the off chance that he is, his attitude is horrible and I'd much rather have Rean around than him. if you can give me a strong case on why rayn is town and worth keeping around and why onegu/rean/cora are a better lynch, i will consider it. @Bereft I can't make a strong case that rayn is town, as I'm honestly not sure what to expect from a scum rayn, but I do think that everything I've seen from him this game town rayn is capable of doing. Also I don't like the idea of lynching someone because "if he's town then he's worthless so it's a win-win". I dislike it in general. And specifically to rayn, if this helps you not lynch him, the last two times I've played with town rayn he has contributed significantly to town after questionable day 1's. There's nothing more for me to say about onegu, cora, and rean as they are all NOT HERE, which should be telling. What is holding you back from lynching them? also, it's not so relevant now that Cora has unvoted, but I drew you this: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nsg2TE5.png)
My problem is this he tunnels him the entire time but posts this I dont understand his motivation.
Then he never really pushes a cora lynch, he never gives reasons for it just we need people to switch.
And his first scum read rean is never mentioned again.
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His messed up case messed up my case....
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On November 23 2013 01:16 Bereft wrote:
in response to thrawn:
as per my diagram:
when who you would lynch based on scum reads coincides with who you would lynch based on policy, it's not hard to become stuck or tunneled on the player in question.
I chose not to interact with him because he was spamming the thread and came off unwilling to listen to reason. anyone who confronted him HAD to be scum (see JJD, Mocsta). if you look back around page 30 or so (sorry I'm on my phone) when he jumps on me for having bad priorities, I try to engage and talk with him, but he just peaces out and goes to bed. whatever, it's 6am in Finland, I'm annoyed but willing to let that slide...but when he comes back the next day, there's no attempt to analyze anything I've said or have a dialogue with me. he rides in on his high horse, calls everything bullshit, and insults/points his finger everywhere, clogging up the thread with what appears to be no more than 5 second long analysis. IF(PLAYER THINKS IM SCUM, THEN HE'S SCUM, ELSE TOWN). it's like when you see a dangerous and crazy looking person in the street shouting at passerbys and you veer off course to walk around them. do you find it hard to see why I had no intention of interacting with him?
in my mind, it was a good and fair lynch up till about 8pm EST (2 hours before the deadline) when my town reads came back into the thread and voiced misgivings about the lynch choice and it became clear Rean was lurking and Onegu, Jampi were all absent. in retrospect, I should've stepped back and worked with them to find a better 2nd candidate, but (and this is where the 3rd circle of that Venn diagram comes into play) when it's close to the deadline and the person I'm tunneled on getting lynched is within grasp, it's hard to take a step back and rethink my stance. its like dangling something a toddler wants within arm's reach - it was hard for me to look away and reevaluate whether there was a better option further away across the room, and to change course so last minute seemed to put heavily risk a no lunch and put our consolidation into jeopardy.
with hindsight obviously I don't think it was a good lynch. but I do not think that it was an unfair lynch given the information available. I think the fact that you did not need to be persuaded to vote rayn implies that you agree, no? as a final point, yours and scib's defense rested purely on "rayn could do this as town". I'm fine with analysis without meta or analysis with meta, but the defense of rayn read to me as pure meta without analysis, which I found weak. maybe that's not how you guys intended it, but with the clock ticking down and rushed posting, that's how I read it.
let me know if you need me to explain any further.
And I hate this post he tunneled rayn the entire time, gives reasons why he was ok to lynch him even if he wasnt scum, then says yeah hindsight it was a bad lynch. The people who are town came in said he is town but I wasnt going to get off of him to find a second lynch, but yeah it was a bad lynch. Feels like scum trying to distance themselves from the mislynch after tunneling him to get him lynched.
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Tldr
No one ever knows why he is voteing rean, after he votes rean he never mentions him again, reads my filter quotes the relevant part of my case on mocsta not the whole thing, later thinks its a case on cora, changes his read on me after I call him out for "being useless". Tunnels rayn, then switches to cora without and reason, back to rayn posts a venn diagram why he is ok to lynch rayn even if he is town, then after flip says rayn lynch was a bad lynch in hindsight.
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Im back home but Im going to take a break get some diner, get my kids ready ror bed and ill be back in a while for mocstas case.
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@Onegu
I'm unconvinced by your case on Bereft. Here are a few problems I see with it. Convince me I'm wrong.
In the post where you made a case on Mocsta, you quoted Mocsta's case on Cora, but the quoting was messed up so I assume Bereft must have read it as YOUR case on Cora with a case on Mocsta tacked on the end. I guess this proves that he wasn't reading very closely, but I don't see how this makes him scum. Your post was hard to follow. He basically said that he couldn't understand what you were talking about at all so he probably only skimmed it and assumed it was your case + vote on Cora.
It's not true that he never mentions Rean again. He has mentioned rean as someone we should consider lynching today. I don't blame him for not saying more about rean as rean has literally not been posting so it's hard to talk about him. I just went through Rean's filter for Aquanim and I had trouble finding things that weren't already beaten to death.
On November 23 2013 22:31 Onegu wrote:
And I hate this post he tunneled rayn the entire time, gives reasons why he was ok to lynch him even if he wasnt scum, then says yeah hindsight it was a bad lynch.
This would be a valid point if the bolded were true, but I don't think it is. Bereft never said lynching a town rayn would be good for town, as far as I can recall.
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Want to repoint this out because aqua picked up on it and didn't really follow up:On November 23 2013 10:55 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 10:47 Aquanim wrote:On November 23 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 10:32 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon I'd like to see your thoughts on Jampidampi. No thread presence. He played a very little part in D1 and that doesn't reflect very well on my read on him. I think if there was a scum OFF the Rayn lynch, it is very likely to be him. I'd be down lynching him tomorrow if it comes to that. You mean a scum off the Rayn lynch besides Onegu? Yeah. I would definitely not throw out the possibility that 2 scum were off the lynch.
Not quite a scumslip, but pretty close I think. Cora posted quite a bit about how Onegu was likley scum because of how he voted. He made a post right before the flip where he wrote his name in red caps 3 times and then he made several posts after about how scummy he was.
So how exactly can someone who believes that say "I think if there was a scum OFF the Rayn lynch, it is very likely to be [Jampi]." His brain shouldn't even be able to process that sentence.
He tries to cover it up when questioned by saying: Yeah I meant BESIDES Onegu. But you would think that he wouldn't forget his top scum read.
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On November 23 2013 23:21 sciberbia wrote:@Onegu I'm unconvinced by your case on Bereft. Here are a few problems I see with it. Convince me I'm wrong.
In the post where you made a case on Mocsta, you quoted Mocsta's case on Cora, but the quoting was messed up so I assume Bereft must have read it as YOUR case on Cora with a case on Mocsta tacked on the end. I guess this proves that he wasn't reading very closely, but I don't see how this makes him scum. Your post was hard to follow. He basically said that he couldn't understand what you were talking about at all so he probably only skimmed it and assumed it was your case + vote on Cora. It's not true that he never mentions Rean again. He has mentioned rean as someone we should consider lynching today. I don't blame him for not saying more about rean as rean has literally not been posting so it's hard to talk about him. I just went through Rean's filter for Aquanim and I had trouble finding things that weren't already beaten to death. Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 22:31 Onegu wrote:
And I hate this post he tunneled rayn the entire time, gives reasons why he was ok to lynch him even if he wasnt scum, then says yeah hindsight it was a bad lynch. This would be a valid point if the bolded were true, but I don't think it is. Bereft never said lynching a town rayn would be good for town, as far as I can recall.
Ok the thing with my case was yes the quoteing was messed up, but when bereft quotes it he only quotes the part I wrote, he didnt quote the whole thing. So he pulls that part out that he knows its from me but doesnt read it, why would he quote that part, the correct part without reading. If you actually read the first line you know I am responding to the original poster and that was mocsta. So why pull that out but not read it?
And the second part what is his motivation for posting the venn diagram in the first place if he truely believes rayn is town? Thats why I dont get a town person who has been tunneled the entire time on rayn post that venn diagram.
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Ebwop If he truely believes rayn is scum
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I'm sick of this shit. My play has been nitpicked more than anyone else's the entire game and it has gone nowhere. Why does everyone think that they are required to post every single thought of theirs? That is how threads get to be 200 pages long.
I'm done. I'm absolutely done. From now on, I'm just going to vote everyone who nitpicks my posts for no reason. Fuck you guys.
##unvote
##Vote: JarJarDrinks
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On November 23 2013 17:26 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 16:48 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 23 2013 16:47 Onegu wrote:
Nor did you ask them questions for when they came back, you didnt mention them at all. At least I participated in the discussion. Corazon, Please listen carefully - I mean the below respectfully. You are acting like Rayn last cycle - If someone mentions your name negatively, you bark back. This is forum mafia, and pressure is a part of the game. We all have reasons to pressure both our scum reads and our town reads. There is no such thing as confirmed, unless its mod-related. People have a right to query your actions without receiving ad-hominems/denigration in return.
That aside: Why do you not want to join my vote on jampidampi?
This is forum mafia, I dont want to start a shit storm so I will say nothing ,ore on the subject nor will I repond to any flames and I suggest no one else does either. But cora thats what people do, the see something they dont like as town (and they could be right or wrong) it could be something no one else sees, and it could be no one else sees it because they are wrong. Or scum see something that some people might look at if it is pointed out even of it isnt anything. Thats how the game is played. So play the game cora, dont policy vote someone because they question you, or if your scum feel free to continue doing it as it will get you lynched.
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Just stop talking to me Onegu, you can't even explain why you aren't scum and you nitpicked on the fact that I contributed to town discussion in a different way than I had promised. You fail to realize that if you are town you automatically promise to contribute to town discussion in ANY way and you have failed at that.
Go back to your QT and figure out a way not to get lynched, idiot.
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Case on mocsta will come tomorrow morning. Also if cora plays the game great, if not just let me know when he is the lynch. Because gamewise what he is doing is scummy, he can just hide behind his votes without actually voteing for his reads.
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On November 24 2013 00:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm sick of this shit. My play has been nitpicked more than anyone else's the entire game and it has gone nowhere. Why does everyone think that they are required to post every single thought of theirs? That is how threads get to be 200 pages long.
I'm done. I'm absolutely done. From now on, I'm just going to vote everyone who nitpicks my posts for no reason. Fuck you guys.
##unvote
##Vote: JarJarDrinks
Im about to sleep but I want to explain why this post is very scummy, first if he actually plays like this, his vote will always be on someone who attacked him, and not necesseraly on his scumreads, even if he scum hunts like normal but votes like this he can make any case he wants because it doesnt matter, he never has to follow it up.
Second If he takes this stance back, he has already put it in peoples head that if you make a case on him he will jump you for it, so some people who like to avoid confrontation have a null read on him they wont push him when they would normally because of this post. (not saying anyone is like this but there could be)
Also he is the one who decides if someone is nit picking or not, your post could be a legit thing to point out like I feel mine was. Everyone else in the thread could feel it is legit but if cora doesnt you get his vote.
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MOAR NITPICK MOAR VOTE SWITCH
##unvote:
##Vote: Onegu
I'll only be a detriment to the scum-hunt if you guys force me to.
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Reminder that this is a GMarshal game and a Bootcamp Game. Consider this a general friendly warning.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4t8oM40)
