EPTOn the other hand, the sentry buff from this is completly not necessary. I believe sentry should no longer be psionic.
Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 62
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On the other hand, the sentry buff from this is completly not necessary. I believe sentry should no longer be psionic. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On November 23 2012 00:11 Linwelin wrote: Zergs had to have overlords at all their bases in broodwar in order to detect DTs and stuff I don't understand why zergs can't do the same with overseers in sc2? Because they're lazy and rely on Infestors being able to do everything. ~~ Infestors not being as good as an anti harass / anti cloaked unit is good for the game. Get your freaking detection and stop being greedy, that's all to it. | ||
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
On November 22 2012 23:57 Purple Haze wrote: Mutas are about as good at killing speed prisms as slow lings are at killing scouting workers. The difference is that a handful of stim marines can kill it in a second, while a queen will have died to the warpin long before the speed prism dies. And as for our fast ground army, the whole point of these changes was supposed to be for a phase in the game where that army has been replaced. If you don't have a ground army then you should have Corruptors, not to mention spines and spores, if the Warp Prism manages to sneak in, perhaps you should take damage, did you think of that? Or is all harassment supposed to be fended off all the time so that Zerg never takes any damage? Defenses against harassment shouldn't always be perfect (like for example the Infestor) otherwise no one would ever bother to harass and we would have good old deathball vs deathball, and as a player or a spectator, that's just not the way I want the game to be. | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
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convention
United States622 Posts
On November 23 2012 00:22 Myrddraal wrote: If you don't have a ground army then you should have Corruptors, not to mention spines and spores, if the Warp Prism manages to sneak in, perhaps you should take damage, did you think of that? Or is all harassment supposed to be fended off all the time so that Zerg never takes any damage? Defenses against harassment shouldn't always be perfect (like for example the Infestor) otherwise no one would ever bother to harass and we would have good old deathball vs deathball, and as a player or a spectator, that's just not the way I want the game to be. To add to this, maybe it also would be a good thing to not phase out your entire ground army then. Infestor/BL is already unbelievably strong. Maybe instead of having BL's 15-25 and infestors 15-30, you add in a few lings and mutas. That way you have a mobile force to deal with drops, and an incredibly strong army to destroy their entire army. Sure, the zerg deathball will be slightly weaker, it might even be possible if someone had outplayed you in the late game with enough damage on drops and good positioning and snipes on infestors that they can win now. Maybe that is how it should be though. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
.................... Sentry immune to fungal is a total joke. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
Showing yallz who's boss. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On November 22 2012 17:01 MrBitter wrote: For people complaining about warp prism harass becoming too good: Some Koreans have already been experimenting with using neural parasite to combat warp prism play. If you have a spore crawler in each base (and you always should by the later parts of the game) simply neuralling the prism and flying it over the spore is already much more energy efficient than fungal + infested terrans. It effectively allows you to stop drop play with 1 infestor and zero units, assuming your fast enough to catch it before warp ins / drops. No. You cannot Neural a Warp Prism with units. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Should zerg have to build muta in every single game against protoss? Make only 2-4 mutas to follow enemy prizms? Why under "zergs need mutas" you mean 10+ only? | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On November 23 2012 01:20 Existor wrote: Make only 2-4 mutas to follow enemy prizms? Why under "zergs need mutas" you mean 10+ only? And when there are 2/3 of them? How long can you follow the 200 mineral unit until you meet stalkers? | ||
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
On November 23 2012 01:09 m0ck wrote: The warp-prism will be stupidly strong against zerg if the current implementation holds, can't everyone agree on that? Unstoppable scout/harass unit/pylon unless there are mutas, which are at best decent against it. Should zerg have to build muta in every single game against protoss? Should protoss have to build phoenix in every single game to hold off the carry-20 supply mineral only speed-medivac with blink? Should nydus be made a top speed, uncatchable flying unit? Oh, mineral only, of course. Infestors should not be able to stop drops, cloak and whatever you can serve in the game. This is the problem with zerg anti-air. you will build corruptors for BL anw, I really dont see the problem. I think it will take more skills to defend now if you choose to go ZERG DEATHBALL. most zerg simply basetrade nowadays anyway. | ||
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
On November 23 2012 01:25 Zaurus wrote: Infestors should not be able to stop drops, cloak and whatever you can serve in the game. This is the problem with zerg anti-air. you will build corruptors for BL anw, I really dont see the problem. I think it will take more skills to defend now if you choose to go ZERG DEATHBALL. most zerg simply basetrade nowadays anyway. Yes, but u dont only use the Warp Prism lategame. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 22 2012 18:02 Big J wrote: And the problem I see with DTs, is not just the "whoops, you have no overseer+army parked at one of those 3vital locations, now you lose the game"-effect, its also that you cannot prevent them from getting away anymore. Top pros simply won't lose DTs anymore, when harassing with them in PvZ. Sorry but as far as I know Zerglings still have 6.11 movespeed on creep while DTs only have 2.81 and are not immune to their attacks. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On November 23 2012 00:53 FakeDeath wrote: These changes will force zergs into heavier turtling and that is the last thing we need. .................... I think this is what a lot of people don't seem to understand. Take away dropp harass defense and what do you think the zerg will do? Turtle even more then now to get that deathball of infestor/broodlord. | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I'm a 2300 MMR Zerg on NA for those that need to know. Not good but not awful.  Looking at the proposed changes I can appreciate that Blizzard is listening to the community and attempting to address some of the larger issues, mainly the Infestor and late-game Zerg. However, looking at the proposed changes I think the negative consequences of the changes as a whole will outweigh the positives (for instance, it will strongly encourage Zergs to play more of a turtle style with static defense which is not an exciting style to watch or play). I'm sure Blizzard knows this and intends to iterate on the changes, so with that I'd like to propose changes that I think fix the core of the issues at hand while removing a lot of the risks presented in the current patch. Balance is an iterative process but I believe this is a better starting point than the current proposal: Top Issues Infestor is too good as a general purpose unit, it should be more of a support caster similar to the High Templar and Ghost. • Infestors are good in ANY composition. They should have a role in the Zerg arsenal rather than the tech that Zergs rush to and mass every game Zerg late game composition is better than Protoss and Terran (Infestor/Broodlord/Corruptor) • The Terran answer toCorruptor/Broodlord should be mass Vikings but Infestors are simply too good against them Protoss cannot engage the army directly without landing a Vortex which creates uninteresting, very one-sided battles Zerg Infestor: Fungal Growth no longer does damage • A 4-second area of effect stun is powerful enough in its own right, no need for this spell to do the damage that it does. Chain fungals are also not interesting from a player or user perspective. • If this becomes too large of a nerf then Fungal Growth could have an effect similar to Corruption that amplifies damage. This at least maintains the role of the Infestor being a support unit and requires the Zerg to have other units to make the Infestor viable. Infested Terrans take any damage that was received while an egg • Infested Terrans have become useful as tanks (damage soakers, not siege tanks) in high-level games which makes no sense and is fairly imbalanced. • If ITs are somehow considered too good still consider increasing the energy cost to 40 from 25. (lowers the number of ITs a full-energy Infestor can spawn to 5 from 8) Fungal Growth no longer affects air units • Dangerous change for sure and changes ZvX matchups significantly. • Stargate, Spire, and Starport play are all buffed in ZvX. • All types of drop play are buffed in ZvX • Helps weaken the late game Zerg composition at the cost of making Zerg extremely vulnerable to mass air. To make a change like this the Zerg must receive a buff against massed air in some other area. Hydralisk: New togglable Split-Shot mode added (similar to Medusa from DOTA) •When toggled the Hydralisk goes into Split-Shot mode immediately •Toggling of Split-Shot mode has a 5-second cooldown on Split-Shot mode the Hydralisk launches 3 Projectiles that each do 50% of their base damage • Improves Zerg Hydra compositions vs. mass air and improves the Hydralisk vs. the powerful Sentry/Immortal all-in • Hydras may be viable vs. massed Bio As with any subjective proposal I'm sure there are holes in my logic but I'm always happy to have constructive discussion that hopefully leads to a more compelling and well-balanced game. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 23 2012 01:09 m0ck wrote: The warp-prism will be stupidly strong against zerg if the current implementation holds, can't everyone agree on that? Unstoppable scout/harass unit/pylon unless there are mutas, which are at best decent against it. Should zerg have to build muta in every single game against protoss? Should protoss have to build phoenix in every single game to hold off the carry-20 supply mineral only speed-medivac with blink? Should nydus be made a top speed, uncatchable flying unit? Oh, mineral only, of course. This problem exists in TvP for months in a much worse way because we don't have any flexible anti-ground static defence and our basic units don't have a 6.11 movespeed on creep to clean warp-ins in the next 15-20 seconds. You still have better tools to deal with it, so I'm afraid I won't shed any tear for Zergs regarding this matter. | ||
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Cybren
United States206 Posts
On November 22 2012 10:50 zhurai wrote: why the fuck does lore matter over balance anyways. plus they're really creative so they'll think of something. that's not our job. (hint: creative team at blizzard, who isn't entirely creative but that's their job, and you don't have to do their job for them) There's a certain point where the games mechanics and lore become so disconnected we may as well remove all the graphics and names and just have polygons of different shapes and colors. When things stop making internal,resonant sense 1) newer players are annoyed and confused 2) casual players get less "into it" 3) the game becomes more and more abstract and arbitrary | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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