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On November 22 2012 20:31 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 17:51 Salteador Neo wrote:On November 22 2012 17:27 Slackzftw wrote:
So, what's the lore explanation for fungal growth not being able to affect psionic units?
LOL! Whats the lore behind a Viking being slower thana Marine. "Lore" does not excist in SC2 Multiplayer. My thoughts lol :D Fungal rooting a giant spaceship flying some km above their heads? Lore. In reality marines and stalkers and hydras would be completely useless against a battle crusier, probably has 12 inches thick steel plating all over it in addition to the distance
I've always thought of the units as being representative rather than literal, so one marine unit actually represents an entire squad or platoon of marines in-universe, and a zergling represents an entire swarm om them, etc. Makes it a little more "realistic", if that's what you're looking for. 
Anyway, more on topic: I havn't had the time to test the map myself, but I think these changes are pretty cool. It will probably make multiple warp prism play more viable in PvZ lategame, which might make the MU so much more dynamic if they make it work. I wouldn't mind if Ghosts became a viable option to Tanks in TvZ, either. Zerg might need some other buff to compensate, but I'd prefer if they buffed something else than the Infestor.
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Raven HSM does nothing. It simply reminds people that it is there.. For instance, if you have a raven with 125+ energy, why not use it? Something like that...
The buff itself is only a reduction of 150/150 from your resources pool, which is insignificant once 3 bases is established. Then you may ask: use it prior to 3 bases, why not?
Answer: because you are very, very open to exploitable things during that huge window where you invested 200 gas for every raven. Say you have 4 ravens out of 2 starports... By the time the 2nd wave of ravens finish, you still won't have energy for the first ones to cast HSM, and that's a whole 800 gas and 2 minutes. In 2 minutes out of 2 factories with 800 gas I could have almost 6 siege tanks. And I guarantee, 6 siege tanks are SIX SIEGE TANKS. 4 ravens, with 2 ALMOST ready to cast HSM are trash and other 2 with more or less half the energy needed for the cast is trash.
Thoughts??
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No fungal on sentries and warp prisms? gg
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On November 22 2012 18:02 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 17:45 Telenil wrote:On November 22 2012 17:16 Big J wrote:
Oh, I think the prism is fine on its own. But I'm not so sure about prism+DT. 1-2spores fall so quickly to DTs, that you basically need overseer coverage everywhere on top of different (more) army coverage. Really, not revealing DTs is stupid imo. It's like they suddenly decide that Terrans can't reveal DTs with scans anymore... Not quite, this is as if Dark Templar couldn't be affected by EMPs any more. And the problem I see with DTs, is not just the "whoops, you have no overseer+army parked at one of those 3vital locations, now you lose the game"-effect, its also that you cannot prevent them from getting away anymore. Top pros simply won't lose DTs anymore, when harassing with them in PvZ.
What is this obsession of the race with the fastest units ingame that they need to be able to completely root all units to kill them? How wouldnt you lose DTs anymore if you cant root them?
Terran also has no rooting abilities, yet we have also no issues with killing DTs. Yes we have scan, but overseer > raven and spore crawler > missile turret for detection, so I really dont see any reason why you wouldnt be able to kill a DT without root.
(Same for speed prisms, terran also cant root them, yet we can counter them fine).
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On November 22 2012 20:54 xTrim wrote:
Raven HSM does nothing. It simply reminds people that it is there.. For instance, if you have a raven with 125+ energy, why not use it? Something like that...
The buff itself is only a reduction of 150/150 from your resources pool, which is insignificant once 3 bases is established. Then you may ask: use it prior to 3 bases, why not?
Answer: because you are very, very open to exploitable things during that huge window where you invested 200 gas for every raven. Say you have 4 ravens out of 2 starports... By the time the 2nd wave of ravens finish, you still won't have energy for the first ones to cast HSM, and that's a whole 800 gas and 2 minutes. In 2 minutes out of 2 factories with 800 gas I could have almost 6 siege tanks. And I guarantee, 6 siege tanks are SIX SIEGE TANKS. 4 ravens, with 2 ALMOST ready to cast HSM are trash and other 2 with more or less half the energy needed for the cast is trash.
Thoughts??
This is why they rather should buff snipe.
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My take on the balance changes:
utterly stupid.
Not being able to deny micro while sentry deny your micro makes me so fucking angry
Thank you dev team for ruin this game lol
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On November 22 2012 21:57 Suikakuju wrote:
My take on the balance changes:
utterly stupid.
Not being able to deny micro while sentry deny your micro makes me so fucking angry
Thank you dev team for ruin this game lol
Actually it makes the game a little bit better, less micro denying.
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On November 22 2012 22:03 PanzerElite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 21:57 Suikakuju wrote:
My take on the balance changes:
utterly stupid.
Not being able to deny micro while sentry deny your micro makes me so fucking angry
Thank you dev team for ruin this game lol Actually it makes the game a little bit better, less micro denying.
unfortunatly not for my race lol
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Horrible changes for everyone who actually plays the game, seems blizzard guys really doesnt 
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Sure people will use raven more often, but do people really want to see more ravens? They are just slow and boring anyway.
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Making DTs immune to fungal makes me nervous. They should at least reveal cloaked units, like EMP does.
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On November 22 2012 22:18 Jounas wrote:
Making DTs immune to fungal makes me nervous. They should at least reveal cloaked units, like EMP does.
I would say the opposite, so at least they have a little weakness to banshees, instead of being the counter to pretty much every kind of possible harrasment.
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On November 22 2012 21:24 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 18:02 Big J wrote:On November 22 2012 17:45 Telenil wrote:On November 22 2012 17:16 Big J wrote:
Oh, I think the prism is fine on its own. But I'm not so sure about prism+DT. 1-2spores fall so quickly to DTs, that you basically need overseer coverage everywhere on top of different (more) army coverage. Really, not revealing DTs is stupid imo. It's like they suddenly decide that Terrans can't reveal DTs with scans anymore... Not quite, this is as if Dark Templar couldn't be affected by EMPs any more. And the problem I see with DTs, is not just the "whoops, you have no overseer+army parked at one of those 3vital locations, now you lose the game"-effect, its also that you cannot prevent them from getting away anymore. Top pros simply won't lose DTs anymore, when harassing with them in PvZ. What is this obsession of the race with the fastest units ingame that they need to be able to completely root all units to kill them? How wouldnt you lose DTs anymore if you cant root them? Terran also has no rooting abilities, yet we have also no issues with killing DTs. Yes we have scan, but overseer > raven and spore crawler > missile turret for detection, so I really dont see any reason why you wouldnt be able to kill a DT without root. (Same for speed prisms, terran also cant root them, yet we can counter them fine).
Sorry, starting now I'm just gonna kill the prism with my roaches and zerglings. You opened my eyes, Protoss cannot pick up DTs, because my mineral only unit is the best GtA unit in the game, thanks for reminding me.
Also the fact that my spores only have ~60% of your turrets dps really helps me killing those pesky warp prisms more easily.
please come up with more strawmans, I have never said I want to root something.
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This does nothing to change the fact that rooting units makes for a boring viewing and playing experience. Seriously, remove the rooting. Gameplay before balance.
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On November 22 2012 22:18 Jounas wrote:
Making DTs immune to fungal makes me nervous. They should at least reveal cloaked units, like EMP does.
Understand the concern, but if they reveal cloaked units, I don't think Ghosts will be particularly useful vs Infestors.
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On November 22 2012 22:28 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 21:24 Sissors wrote:On November 22 2012 18:02 Big J wrote:On November 22 2012 17:45 Telenil wrote:On November 22 2012 17:16 Big J wrote:
Oh, I think the prism is fine on its own. But I'm not so sure about prism+DT. 1-2spores fall so quickly to DTs, that you basically need overseer coverage everywhere on top of different (more) army coverage. Really, not revealing DTs is stupid imo. It's like they suddenly decide that Terrans can't reveal DTs with scans anymore... Not quite, this is as if Dark Templar couldn't be affected by EMPs any more. And the problem I see with DTs, is not just the "whoops, you have no overseer+army parked at one of those 3vital locations, now you lose the game"-effect, its also that you cannot prevent them from getting away anymore. Top pros simply won't lose DTs anymore, when harassing with them in PvZ. What is this obsession of the race with the fastest units ingame that they need to be able to completely root all units to kill them? How wouldnt you lose DTs anymore if you cant root them? Terran also has no rooting abilities, yet we have also no issues with killing DTs. Yes we have scan, but overseer > raven and spore crawler > missile turret for detection, so I really dont see any reason why you wouldnt be able to kill a DT without root. (Same for speed prisms, terran also cant root them, yet we can counter them fine). Sorry, starting now I'm just gonna kill the prism with my roaches and zerglings. You opened my eyes, Protoss cannot pick up DTs, because my mineral only unit is the best GtA unit in the game, thanks for reminding me. Also the fact that my spores only have ~60% of your turrets dps really helps me killing those pesky warp prisms more easily. please come up with more strawmans, I have never said I want to root something.
Yeah how can I kill warp prisms with my marauders...
Why on earth would the toss use DTs if he is going to have warp prisms continiously around them to pick them up? Just use zealots then, alot cheaper. Sorry but you should stick to your story and not think up different scenarios all the time. But do consider mutas, also alot faster than my vikings.
And yoru spores have way more HP than turrets, can move around, and are alot harder to kill while being produced. Making them alot better for detection than turrets.
Anyway the TL;DR is that you should stick with your story. Is the problem now warp prisms or DTs? If it is DTs, then dont suddenly switch to warp prisms. You do know your roaches and lings can attack DTs? And your overseers are great detection?
Edit: BTW just for clarity, I think it is ridiculous warp prisms are psionic, and I gave the fungal change a thumbs down. I consider makign it a slow and possibly also projectile (stupid that would be only HotS, got to buy expansion to have balanced game?) a way better idea. I just disagree with the zerg who claim their only way to kill stuff is being able to completely root it.
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On November 22 2012 22:37 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 22:28 Big J wrote:On November 22 2012 21:24 Sissors wrote:On November 22 2012 18:02 Big J wrote:On November 22 2012 17:45 Telenil wrote:On November 22 2012 17:16 Big J wrote:
Oh, I think the prism is fine on its own. But I'm not so sure about prism+DT. 1-2spores fall so quickly to DTs, that you basically need overseer coverage everywhere on top of different (more) army coverage. Really, not revealing DTs is stupid imo. It's like they suddenly decide that Terrans can't reveal DTs with scans anymore... Not quite, this is as if Dark Templar couldn't be affected by EMPs any more. And the problem I see with DTs, is not just the "whoops, you have no overseer+army parked at one of those 3vital locations, now you lose the game"-effect, its also that you cannot prevent them from getting away anymore. Top pros simply won't lose DTs anymore, when harassing with them in PvZ. What is this obsession of the race with the fastest units ingame that they need to be able to completely root all units to kill them? How wouldnt you lose DTs anymore if you cant root them? Terran also has no rooting abilities, yet we have also no issues with killing DTs. Yes we have scan, but overseer > raven and spore crawler > missile turret for detection, so I really dont see any reason why you wouldnt be able to kill a DT without root. (Same for speed prisms, terran also cant root them, yet we can counter them fine). Sorry, starting now I'm just gonna kill the prism with my roaches and zerglings. You opened my eyes, Protoss cannot pick up DTs, because my mineral only unit is the best GtA unit in the game, thanks for reminding me. Also the fact that my spores only have ~60% of your turrets dps really helps me killing those pesky warp prisms more easily. please come up with more strawmans, I have never said I want to root something. Yeah how can I kill warp prisms with my marauders... Why on earth would the toss use DTs if he is going to have warp prisms continiously around them to pick them up? Just use zealots then, alot cheaper. Sorry but you should stick to your story and not think up different scenarios all the time. But do consider mutas, also alot faster than my vikings. And yoru spores have way more HP than turrets, can move around, and are alot harder to kill while being produced. Making them alot better for detection than turrets. Anyway the TL;DR is that you should stick with your story. Is the problem now warp prisms or DTs? If it is DTs, then dont suddenly switch to warp prisms. You do know your roaches and lings can attack DTs? And your overseers are great detection? Edit: BTW just for clarity, I think it is ridiculous warp prisms are psionic, and I gave the fungal change a thumbs down. I consider makign it a slow and possibly also projectile (stupid that would be only HotS, got to buy expansion to have balanced game?) a way better idea. I just disagree with the zerg who claim their only way to kill stuff is being able to completely root it.
The TL; DR is that you should read before you write.
That was what I wrote. That was my story.
Oh, I think the prism is fine on its own. But I'm not so sure about prism+DT.
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And then the question is still why the DT would there be anything different than a zealot. Zerg has plenty of detection without fungal giving detection.
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On November 22 2012 22:48 Sissors wrote:
And then the question is still why the DT would there be anything different than a zealot. Zerg has plenty of detection without fungal giving detection.
Spore and overseer, where is this plenty of detection?
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EPT
