EPTOn September 07 2011 19:48 Dommk wrote:
Crossing your fingers and hoping you can get a Pylon outside a Zerg's base isn't exactly what I had in mind when I think the terms "just go fucking kill him"
Or if he had something scouting the outside of his base, the Pylon would have been denied and the Zealots would have been forced to Warpin further down the map, buying Kyrix enough time to produce whatever he needs to defend.
Queens + Larva + 3 Hatches means that the Zerg can hit 70 Drones as soon as that all-in fails and MC is shit out of luck :|
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2011 19:45 Medrea wrote:
Yeah but your also kind of implying that it would be better to try and compete with zerg in a macro sense. Much better to just go fucking kill him when he has no units. Ultra fast 3rd? Yeah might as well give up on a macro game as any race. Better to just go end the game.
On September 07 2011 19:43 Dommk wrote:
40 probes 10mins into the game is not optimal by any means.
He was banking gas because he was building nothing but Zealots. Though at the end he made some sentry warp-ins and burned it all
Regardless it was an all-in. 40 Probes just doesn't cut it considering in the next few minutes you have to rebuild an army AND Tech AND build another 20~ Probes.
Chronoboost probes for the first few minutes your mineral spending increases as you are producing probes at a faster rate, it takes a minute or two before the Probes kick in and pay themselves off, unlike Mules which are almost instant gain
On September 07 2011 19:39 Medrea wrote:
Protoss doesn't really bank resources and 2 on each patch is optimal as the third only mines half.
On September 07 2011 19:37 Dommk wrote:
That was all-in as all-in gets.
Did you look at the saturation of his natural? He only had two mining per patch on both bases, with no gas taken. On top of that he had 300gas in the bank.
If that attacked failed, if the pylon got scouted, if the Zerg saw it coming then MC would have been done. It may still have done a little damage but there is no chance in hell that he can win from there.
Protoss isn't like Terran, you can't recover from low-econ all-ins as well as Terran can because of how reliant you are on a good econ and gas.
On September 07 2011 19:30 NewteN wrote:
It's retarded is what it is. This is MC, not some bronze leaguer who's somehow going to not do enough damage with 11 +1 zealots, a sentry for ramp and 3-4 VRs for him to outright lose the game if it doesn't win right then and there. MAYBE Kyrix holds, but how the F is he going to win if MC loses 11 lots/sent and probably saves 2-3 VRs???
No tech? He's up to +1 and a Stargate? He's walled. I seriously have no idea why this is cheese or all-in.
On September 07 2011 19:23 ragnorr wrote:
he cut probes at 34, had no tech and 6 gates. Hes all in(if it dint work, he would have lost).
All in is a term that dont require you to pull workers, but a tactic that if you lose the attack, you lose the game
On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF
he cut probes at 34, had no tech and 6 gates. Hes all in(if it dint work, he would have lost).
All in is a term that dont require you to pull workers, but a tactic that if you lose the attack, you lose the game
It's retarded is what it is. This is MC, not some bronze leaguer who's somehow going to not do enough damage with 11 +1 zealots, a sentry for ramp and 3-4 VRs for him to outright lose the game if it doesn't win right then and there. MAYBE Kyrix holds, but how the F is he going to win if MC loses 11 lots/sent and probably saves 2-3 VRs???
No tech? He's up to +1 and a Stargate? He's walled. I seriously have no idea why this is cheese or all-in.
That was all-in as all-in gets.
Did you look at the saturation of his natural? He only had two mining per patch on both bases, with no gas taken. On top of that he had 300gas in the bank.
If that attacked failed, if the pylon got scouted, if the Zerg saw it coming then MC would have been done. It may still have done a little damage but there is no chance in hell that he can win from there.
Protoss isn't like Terran, you can't recover from low-econ all-ins as well as Terran can because of how reliant you are on a good econ and gas.
Protoss doesn't really bank resources and 2 on each patch is optimal as the third only mines half.
40 probes 10mins into the game is not optimal by any means.
He was banking gas because he was building nothing but Zealots. Though at the end he made some sentry warp-ins and burned it all
Regardless it was an all-in. 40 Probes just doesn't cut it considering in the next few minutes you have to rebuild an army AND Tech AND build another 20~ Probes.
Chronoboost probes for the first few minutes your mineral spending increases as you are producing probes at a faster rate, it takes a minute or two before the Probes kick in and pay themselves off, unlike Mules which are almost instant gain
Yeah but your also kind of implying that it would be better to try and compete with zerg in a macro sense. Much better to just go fucking kill him when he has no units. Ultra fast 3rd? Yeah might as well give up on a macro game as any race. Better to just go end the game.
Crossing your fingers and hoping you can get a Pylon outside a Zerg's base isn't exactly what I had in mind when I think the terms "just go fucking kill him"
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2011 19:45 Heavenly wrote:
It was 37 probes, 12 zealots, and 3 voidrays to something like 55 drones, some queens, and like 4 zerglings. For Kyrix to beat that army he would have to have much fewer drones than that, in which case MC wouldn't be as far behind as he seemed due to Kyrix's extreme greed.
On September 07 2011 19:43 Dommk wrote:
40 probes 10mins into the game is not optimal by any means.
He was banking gas because he was building nothing but Zealots. Though at the end he made some sentry warp-ins and burned it all
Regardless it was an all-in. 40 Probes just doesn't cut it considering in the next few minutes you have to rebuild an army AND Tech AND build another 20~ Probes.
Chronoboost probes for the first few minutes your mineral spending increases as you are producing probes at a faster rate, it takes a minute or two before the Probes kick in and pay themselves off, unlike Mules which are almost instant gain
On September 07 2011 19:39 Medrea wrote:
Protoss doesn't really bank resources and 2 on each patch is optimal as the third only mines half.
On September 07 2011 19:37 Dommk wrote:
That was all-in as all-in gets.
Did you look at the saturation of his natural? He only had two mining per patch on both bases, with no gas taken. On top of that he had 300gas in the bank.
If that attacked failed, if the pylon got scouted, if the Zerg saw it coming then MC would have been done. It may still have done a little damage but there is no chance in hell that he can win from there.
Protoss isn't like Terran, you can't recover from low-econ all-ins as well as Terran can because of how reliant you are on a good econ and gas.
On September 07 2011 19:30 NewteN wrote:
It's retarded is what it is. This is MC, not some bronze leaguer who's somehow going to not do enough damage with 11 +1 zealots, a sentry for ramp and 3-4 VRs for him to outright lose the game if it doesn't win right then and there. MAYBE Kyrix holds, but how the F is he going to win if MC loses 11 lots/sent and probably saves 2-3 VRs???
No tech? He's up to +1 and a Stargate? He's walled. I seriously have no idea why this is cheese or all-in.
On September 07 2011 19:23 ragnorr wrote:
he cut probes at 34, had no tech and 6 gates. Hes all in(if it dint work, he would have lost).
All in is a term that dont require you to pull workers, but a tactic that if you lose the attack, you lose the game
On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF
he cut probes at 34, had no tech and 6 gates. Hes all in(if it dint work, he would have lost).
All in is a term that dont require you to pull workers, but a tactic that if you lose the attack, you lose the game
It's retarded is what it is. This is MC, not some bronze leaguer who's somehow going to not do enough damage with 11 +1 zealots, a sentry for ramp and 3-4 VRs for him to outright lose the game if it doesn't win right then and there. MAYBE Kyrix holds, but how the F is he going to win if MC loses 11 lots/sent and probably saves 2-3 VRs???
No tech? He's up to +1 and a Stargate? He's walled. I seriously have no idea why this is cheese or all-in.
That was all-in as all-in gets.
Did you look at the saturation of his natural? He only had two mining per patch on both bases, with no gas taken. On top of that he had 300gas in the bank.
If that attacked failed, if the pylon got scouted, if the Zerg saw it coming then MC would have been done. It may still have done a little damage but there is no chance in hell that he can win from there.
Protoss isn't like Terran, you can't recover from low-econ all-ins as well as Terran can because of how reliant you are on a good econ and gas.
Protoss doesn't really bank resources and 2 on each patch is optimal as the third only mines half.
40 probes 10mins into the game is not optimal by any means.
He was banking gas because he was building nothing but Zealots. Though at the end he made some sentry warp-ins and burned it all
Regardless it was an all-in. 40 Probes just doesn't cut it considering in the next few minutes you have to rebuild an army AND Tech AND build another 20~ Probes.
Chronoboost probes for the first few minutes your mineral spending increases as you are producing probes at a faster rate, it takes a minute or two before the Probes kick in and pay themselves off, unlike Mules which are almost instant gain
It was 37 probes, 12 zealots, and 3 voidrays to something like 55 drones, some queens, and like 4 zerglings. For Kyrix to beat that army he would have to have much fewer drones than that, in which case MC wouldn't be as far behind as he seemed due to Kyrix's extreme greed.
Or if he had something scouting the outside of his base, the Pylon would have been denied and the Zealots would have been forced to Warpin further down the map, buying Kyrix enough time to produce whatever he needs to defend.
Queens + Larva + 3 Hatches means that the Zerg can hit 70 Drones as soon as that all-in fails and MC is shit out of luck :|
Well thats what the voids are for, map control to allow for such a sneaky move. Honestly if MC felt like he couldnt have done it there, he probably would have just done it somewhere else. Like bring in one more sentry and deny the third.
