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On October 05 2012 14:01 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:58 Keirathi wrote:
I have to admit JH, you aren't doing a good job of trying to convince the rest of the town that gonzaw is scum.
Right now, I feel like you're both shitting up the thread and both of you are looking scummy for it. Would you prefer to see a "pretty" case against him? And now for the real question. Will you ACTUALLY read it objectively, or would I be wasting my time? Fact, gonzaw's little "get u lynched scrub" threats don't scare me, I'm town, an all-in probably favors us. So if someone else wants it and actually plans to read it and consider it, I'll post a "proper" case. If it's just going to get dismissed out of hand, can you blame me for not wanting to waste a pisston of time?
Of course I'll read it.
To be perfectly honest, I have points that I plan to make against both of you, but its too late tonight to get started so it will have to come in the morning.
The more solid information, the better IMO.
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On October 05 2012 05:28 Drazerk wrote:
To keep myself alive longer which is pro town as you say so yourself.
Why are you concerned about this? You're always the person who says that town should get rid of you at some point.
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Gonzaw
On October 01 2012 05:19 gonzaw wrote:I'm more concerned with JingleHell at the moment: Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 09:03 JingleHell wrote:
Hello gents. Let's get some scum. This was his first post. After this I assumed he'd come with walls of text quoting everybody, asking everybody questions and trying to actively find scum. What he actually did was disappear, then come out of nowhere to park a barely-justified vote on Drazerk and disappear again. The contrast between his initial "eagerness" to catch scum and his actual behaviour is very scummy. Again, also considering the fact that he doesn't seem to care about his read on Drazerk since he immediately disappeared later instead of trying to reason his read with others or with Drazerk himself. Players that vote just for the sake of voting (and not for the sake of trying to figure out someone else's alignment) are either ultra bored/busy townies or scum. I see no indication of JingleHell being bored because of his 1st post, nor any indication of him being busy (again, because of his 1st post as well and the lack of explanation from him), so I'm going with the 3rd option here: ##Vote: JingleHellP.S: I can't be arsed to check austin/Mementos/s&b/hiro and all those people right now.
Ok, let's get this out of the way first. He accuses me of not doing shit, when he hadn't done shit at this point, and of a bad vote. The reasoning for my vote was pretty much covered after that. Of course, he still remembers my suspicion of him as being purely an OMGUS. (Hey, I've got the perfect scum plan now, accuse everybody in post number 1, then just scream OMGUS any time someone says anything against you...)
Of course, he tried to head off any response by admitting he was calling me scummy for behavior similar to his own...
On October 01 2012 05:20 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
Also, I hope nobody will have the nerve of calling me hypocrite and vote me because of "me doing the same thing JingleHell is doing" or some shit like that.
I'm going to study for my test, but I'll be around, so I'll answer any questions you guys have and try to be here and not just disappear.
Here, he begins smearing me, suggesting the only options are "bad" and "scum".
On October 01 2012 06:03 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
JIngle, I get the feeling you are voting Drazerk and accusing him just so you can justify doing something in this game. I don't get the feeling you are trying to figure out his alignment and convince yourself he is scum, nor I get the feeling you want to convince us he is scum so we can lynch him.
I just see you lurk, then come out of lurking to park your vote using a half-assed justification for it and then going back to lurking.
Like I said, I can only see bored/trollish/busy townies doing that (although even busy townies would try to do something else to push their read), and I don't see you being any of them.
You are too serious and "eager to catch scum" to be a bored or trollish townie (for instance I could see Nisani being a bored townie, at least at this point in the game), and again there's no indication you are busy (and again even if you were I doubt you'd act like you did).
So where does that leave you? As scum unfortunately, unless someone can figure out some town motivation for Jingle's behaviour.
Absolutes like that are completely stupid.
On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads. Okay, answer me this then: 1)How do you stand in respect to Drazerk? Do you agree with Nisani/Jingle/etc about his scummy behaviour or do you think he's town or are you not sure? 2)Same about JingleHell. Do you agree with what I said about him or not? Or do you think it's not enough to judge his alignment, and if so why? 3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? I'm more interested in your thought process at the moment rather than what you actually think (I want to know if you are legitimately trying to build your reads or you are scum trying to skate by without doing anything)
Of course, Gonzaw does the same shit he's picking on Keirathi for. Oh, and here's another accusation. Keirathi, might as well not make a case, he'll just write it off as OMGUS and call you bad town.
On October 01 2012 06:45 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that. What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
Hmm, I'll wait on the contributions of other people before doing anything else. I'd really like Mementos to tell us if his austin thing is getting anywhere and if he has anything else to say.
This one actually seems to directly contradict itself, accusing me of appearance of contribution, not worried about convincing people of my read... oh but he wants the contributions of others.
On October 01 2012 07:14 gonzaw wrote:
Try not to be such an asshole Jingle, it's just freaking D1.
I'm having mixed feelings about you. I don't know if this aggressive "I don't care" behaviour of yours is a ruse or if it's legit, but it's confusing me a little bit (i.e I don't know if you'd react like that as scum).
I'm not asking people to bandwagon you, and asking for opinions and stances.
If it makes you feel any better though:
##Unvote: JingleHell
Jingle, what do you think of Mementos' 1st post about Keriathi and austin and his behaviour this game?
I wouldn't mind shifting discussion towards Mementos, ghost, S&B and maybe Nisani.
Hell S&B did absolutely nothing so far, maybe Drazerk is onto something.
P.S: Also Jingle, are you seriously saying you won't accuse anybody so they don't accuse you of OMGUSing back? Are you willing to accuse any of those people you mentioned just out of spite or because you seriously think they could be scum?
Don't start acting like the world is against you when you only have 2 votes and it's 24 hours into D1.
Remember this one, since his favorite defense is that I'm OMGUSing him. Oh, and more of that talking shit and smearing.
On October 01 2012 08:47 gonzaw wrote:
Mementos, any thoughts on JingleHell and others? (like ghost for instance)?
There's a severe lack of information going on.
I'm also severely worried/disappointed in s&b. Does he act like this when he is scum? (i.e never post anything)
Yet another post of Gonzaw wanting other people's opinions to jump on board with. It's a recurring theme.
On October 01 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:
So....hello, anybody?
austin, why aren't you making those fluffy walls of text you make when you are town?
Why does it seem nobody cares?
Damn, what a boring game :/
If this keeps up like this I'll most likely vote S&B, or ghost (if he wasn't intentionally trolling), or Jingle (if I make up my mind about him) or Mementos/Nisani/austin/iamperfection (I have "weird" feelings about all of them but there so little to go on that I can't know for sure).
Yeah, not incredibly useful, but oh well...
Hmmm, whole fucking thread is scummy...
On October 01 2012 15:38 gonzaw wrote:
Just in case I miss it I'll make a placeholder vote on iamperfection:
##Vote: iamperfection
I don't have a strong read on him at all, but after rereading it's the strongest one I have.
None of his posts seemed to contribute at all, and even his ghost vote seemed "easy" to latch on. He doesn't have anything else to go on, so it's a safe bet I think.
Soft bus, possibly? He did unvote so he could move his "placeholder" vote once perfection had votes... if it's really a placeholder on either person why would you move it when one of them gets momentum? Awkward.
On October 01 2012 23:44 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah but ghost is not Palmar.
We all know how scum Palmar works, and that's a thing a scum Palmar would do. Is it a thing scum ghost would do?
(well, to be honest I don't remember him in any games where he was scum though)
Hmm, okay people, what do you guys think about lynching one of these guys:
JingleHell
Mementos
Nisani
CrossFire
austin
iamperfection
And if you'd switch to one of them, why would you do it?
Like I said before I have that same "weird" feeling about them, but again it seems none of them other than Mementos decided to show up to contribute at all.
It wouldn't bother me too much since it's D1, but we are getting too close to the lynch deadline and we have to choose a lynch.
We have like 0 information on the table, so it's VERY likely this lynch will be a misslynch, specially if there's some incognito scum in the group of Mementos/Hiro/Keirathi/(me lol)/etc that are driving discussion.
But fuck what else can we do, right?
I'm leaving in like 20 minutes and wondering if I should put my placeholder (or basically lynch vote) onto someone else.
I'm gonna eat now....so convince me people
Another list of half the thread as possible scum...
On October 01 2012 23:58 gonzaw wrote:
##Unvote: iamperfection
##Vote: JingleHell
I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on).
Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well.
So long people!
Here's that change from one placeholder (who flipped scum) to another one. Me. A guy who thinks he's scum.
On October 02 2012 08:45 gonzaw wrote:
Town...you impress me
Jingle is town, but he's bad. Bolded bad. Chill out, don't OMGUS, pay attention and don't get all cocky and arrogant and spam the thread with those defenses of yours.
The way you argued and interacted with people and the way you kept "shitting things up" even though it was obvious you should have stopped doing that as scum makes me think there's a chance you can be town, so take that chance and try to play better.
ghost and Nisani are likely scum I think, Mementos and Crossfire are there too.
ghost/Nisani/Mementos/Crossfire/Drazerk
I think all remaining scum are in there
Talking shit, fairly random change of opinion about Draz, who he formerly thought wasn't scum, who really wasn't doing much that could be more than a null tell, yet again accusing half the thread. (Oops, like I said, if we suspect him, must be an OMGUS!)
On October 02 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote:
@S&B: Dude, start posting NOW or I'll do everything in my power to kill you.
If I can ever be justified in tunneling the hell out of you in any game we play together it's in this one. You only have 7 freaking posts, 4 of them having less than 3 lines.
Hmmm. He spent the entire next day on Nisani, IIRC?
On October 03 2012 11:08 gonzaw wrote:
Night Kill Speculation:
Well, let's just first assume it was a scum kill.
Seems that scum were scared they couldn't actively push Mementos because of his "town cred" of voting iamperfection first and sticking with his vote.
Sadly, he then says:
On October 03 2012 11:38 gonzaw wrote:
Scum Speculation:
Well, thank you scum for shooting a suspect instead of, let's say, Hiro or Keirathi or austin.
Huh? That makes a lot of sense...
I'm actually starting to get a headache. I'll come back to this either later tonight or tomorrow morning. That should be a good start to chew on, while glossing over a lot of the more personal reasons he's given me to enjoy watching him flip red.
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Well, thank you for finally getting down to it.
I'll deal with all your concerns here (yeah it will be a big post).
Hopefully we can get past this now, or at least I hope you'll try harder if you still think I'm scum:
On October 05 2012 14:35 JingleHell wrote:GonzawShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:19 gonzaw wrote:I'm more concerned with JingleHell at the moment: On September 30 2012 09:03 JingleHell wrote:
Hello gents. Let's get some scum. This was his first post. After this I assumed he'd come with walls of text quoting everybody, asking everybody questions and trying to actively find scum. What he actually did was disappear, then come out of nowhere to park a barely-justified vote on Drazerk and disappear again. The contrast between his initial "eagerness" to catch scum and his actual behaviour is very scummy. Again, also considering the fact that he doesn't seem to care about his read on Drazerk since he immediately disappeared later instead of trying to reason his read with others or with Drazerk himself. Players that vote just for the sake of voting (and not for the sake of trying to figure out someone else's alignment) are either ultra bored/busy townies or scum. I see no indication of JingleHell being bored because of his 1st post, nor any indication of him being busy (again, because of his 1st post as well and the lack of explanation from him), so I'm going with the 3rd option here: ##Vote: JingleHellP.S: I can't be arsed to check austin/Mementos/s&b/hiro and all those people right now. Ok, let's get this out of the way first. He accuses me of not doing shit, when he hadn't done shit at this point, and of a bad vote. The reasoning for my vote was pretty much covered after that. Of course, he still remembers my suspicion of him as being purely an OMGUS. (Hey, I've got the perfect scum plan now, accuse everybody in post number 1, then just scream OMGUS any time someone says anything against you...) Of course, he tried to head off any response by admitting he was calling me scummy for behavior similar to his own...
I didn't see any of them invested in discussions, specially not in discussions concerning Keirathi and Drazerk. They just came, parked their vote on the "easy" target ("easy" in relative terms) and left. I see no town motivation at all in parking your vote and disappearing before discussing your reasoning with other people and waiting to see what others have to say.
That's basically my point for being suspicious of you, along with this:
The contrast between his initial "eagerness" to catch scum and his actual behaviour is very scummy. Again, also considering the fact that he doesn't seem to care about his read on Drazerk since he immediately disappeared later instead of trying to reason his read with others or with Drazerk himself.
Is that behaviour similar to my own? I don't think so.
Leave the "OMGUS" thing out of this since you weren't accusing me back then. Those are 2 completely unrelated things.
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:20 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
Also, I hope nobody will have the nerve of calling me hypocrite and vote me because of "me doing the same thing JingleHell is doing" or some shit like that.
I'm going to study for my test, but I'll be around, so I'll answer any questions you guys have and try to be here and not just disappear. Here, he begins smearing me, suggesting the only options are "bad" and "scum".
Wut? I only anticipated that someone else may just come and say "oh lol look gonzaw is acting like Jingle!" and start a wagon on me when I wasn't actually acting like you (i.e I wouldn't vote you and disappear but would actually be there, answer questions and stuff).
That is literally written there in the post, why did you misinterpret it like me suggesting you are either only "bad" or "scum"? (of course at that point I was more suggesting you were scum...since you know...I was voting you, was suspicious of you and that shit).
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:03 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
JIngle, I get the feeling you are voting Drazerk and accusing him just so you can justify doing something in this game. I don't get the feeling you are trying to figure out his alignment and convince yourself he is scum, nor I get the feeling you want to convince us he is scum so we can lynch him.
I just see you lurk, then come out of lurking to park your vote using a half-assed justification for it and then going back to lurking.
Like I said, I can only see bored/trollish/busy townies doing that (although even busy townies would try to do something else to push their read), and I don't see you being any of them.
You are too serious and "eager to catch scum" to be a bored or trollish townie (for instance I could see Nisani being a bored townie, at least at this point in the game), and again there's no indication you are busy (and again even if you were I doubt you'd act like you did).
So where does that leave you? As scum unfortunately, unless someone can figure out some town motivation for Jingle's behaviour. Absolutes like that are completely stupid.
Not if they work.
Also completely unrelated to me being scum (maybe you can argue if I'm wrong or not, but that's for another discussion).
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads. Okay, answer me this then: 1)How do you stand in respect to Drazerk? Do you agree with Nisani/Jingle/etc about his scummy behaviour or do you think he's town or are you not sure? 2)Same about JingleHell. Do you agree with what I said about him or not? Or do you think it's not enough to judge his alignment, and if so why? 3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? I'm more interested in your thought process at the moment rather than what you actually think (I want to know if you are legitimately trying to build your reads or you are scum trying to skate by without doing anything) Of course, Gonzaw does the same shit he's picking on Keirathi for. Oh, and here's another accusation. Keirathi, might as well not make a case, he'll just write it off as OMGUS and call you bad town.
I don't get what you are saying here at all.
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:45 gonzaw wrote:And I don't think your point on JingleHell is very good. I can see someone who isn't very familiar with Drazerk jumping on that. What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it?
Hmm, I'll wait on the contributions of other people before doing anything else. I'd really like Mementos to tell us if his austin thing is getting anywhere and if he has anything else to say. This one actually seems to directly contradict itself, accusing me of appearance of contribution, not worried about convincing people of my read... oh but he wants the contributions of others.
You didn't ask for contributions of others and you were "convinced" Drazerk was scum.
There's no contradiction there.
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 07:14 gonzaw wrote:
Try not to be such an asshole Jingle, it's just freaking D1.
I'm having mixed feelings about you. I don't know if this aggressive "I don't care" behaviour of yours is a ruse or if it's legit, but it's confusing me a little bit (i.e I don't know if you'd react like that as scum).
I'm not asking people to bandwagon you, and asking for opinions and stances.
If it makes you feel any better though:
##Unvote: JingleHell
Jingle, what do you think of Mementos' 1st post about Keriathi and austin and his behaviour this game?
I wouldn't mind shifting discussion towards Mementos, ghost, S&B and maybe Nisani.
Hell S&B did absolutely nothing so far, maybe Drazerk is onto something.
P.S: Also Jingle, are you seriously saying you won't accuse anybody so they don't accuse you of OMGUSing back? Are you willing to accuse any of those people you mentioned just out of spite or because you seriously think they could be scum?
Don't start acting like the world is against you when you only have 2 votes and it's 24 hours into D1. Remember this one, since his favorite defense is that I'm OMGUSing him. Oh, and more of that talking shit and smearing.
??
What does that post have anything to do with "Jingle is OMGUSing me"? You didn't start accusing me until after I voted iamperfection I think.
If you want to get to the "OMGUSing" part: you accuse me because you were "paranoid" about me once I voted you, and then you failed to coherently explain why I was scum and started accusing me.
Yes, I assumed this was OMGUS in part.
Again, how does me thinking you were OMGUSing me makes me scum? Nevermind don't answer here I'll get to that later.
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 08:47 gonzaw wrote:
Mementos, any thoughts on JingleHell and others? (like ghost for instance)?
There's a severe lack of information going on.
I'm also severely worried/disappointed in s&b. Does he act like this when he is scum? (i.e never post anything) Yet another post of Gonzaw wanting other people's opinions to jump on board with. It's a recurring theme.
There's a difference between "wanting information" and "wanting other people's opinions".
Either way I don't see anything wrong with either of them. Townies giving other townies their opinions is what makes town lynch scum in the end right?
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:
So....hello, anybody?
austin, why aren't you making those fluffy walls of text you make when you are town?
Why does it seem nobody cares?
Damn, what a boring game :/
If this keeps up like this I'll most likely vote S&B, or ghost (if he wasn't intentionally trolling), or Jingle (if I make up my mind about him) or Mementos/Nisani/austin/iamperfection (I have "weird" feelings about all of them but there so little to go on that I can't know for sure).
Yeah, not incredibly useful, but oh well... Hmmm, whole fucking thread is scummy...
No comment
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 15:38 gonzaw wrote:
Just in case I miss it I'll make a placeholder vote on iamperfection:
##Vote: iamperfection
I don't have a strong read on him at all, but after rereading it's the strongest one I have.
None of his posts seemed to contribute at all, and even his ghost vote seemed "easy" to latch on. He doesn't have anything else to go on, so it's a safe bet I think.
Soft bus, possibly? He did unvote so he could move his "placeholder" vote once perfection had votes... if it's really a placeholder on either person why would you move it when one of them gets momentum? Awkward.
Okay, I just looked back and the only "momentum" iamperfection had was 1 post Mementos did. Nobody ever mentioned iamperfection at all before I left (check it here and in the next page). Hell other than that vote from Mementos there was no momentum on iamperfection
I did notice that, there was no momentum on iamperfection and I had to leave to uni in 10 minutes so I had to decide what to do: vote the guy that could be scum but has no momentum? Or vote the guy that could also be scum but may gain more momentum (you)?
Since Mattchew voted you I guessed the lynch would consolidate better against you than on iamperfection.
But to be honest, like I said it was a placeholder so I wasn't sure who I wanted lynched, I just voted you in the spur of the moment for those reasons above.
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 23:44 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah but ghost is not Palmar.
We all know how scum Palmar works, and that's a thing a scum Palmar would do. Is it a thing scum ghost would do?
(well, to be honest I don't remember him in any games where he was scum though)
Hmm, okay people, what do you guys think about lynching one of these guys:
JingleHell
Mementos
Nisani
CrossFire
austin
iamperfection
And if you'd switch to one of them, why would you do it?
Like I said before I have that same "weird" feeling about them, but again it seems none of them other than Mementos decided to show up to contribute at all.
It wouldn't bother me too much since it's D1, but we are getting too close to the lynch deadline and we have to choose a lynch.
We have like 0 information on the table, so it's VERY likely this lynch will be a misslynch, specially if there's some incognito scum in the group of Mementos/Hiro/Keirathi/(me lol)/etc that are driving discussion.
But fuck what else can we do, right?
I'm leaving in like 20 minutes and wondering if I should put my placeholder (or basically lynch vote) onto someone else.
I'm gonna eat now....so convince me people Another list of half the thread as possible scum...
0 consolidation on the lynch, with some random guys voting Drazerk, and I was leaving in 20 minutes.
I'm sure you can see why I was panicking right?
Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 23:58 gonzaw wrote:
##Unvote: iamperfection
##Vote: JingleHell
I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on).
Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well.
So long people! Here's that change from one placeholder (who flipped scum) to another one. Me. A guy who thinks he's scum.
lol no, you only were "paranoid" about me by that point, and you even posted that post after I started working on mine:
On October 01 2012 23:59 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 23:54 JingleHell wrote:
(Incoming accusation of OMGUS in 3, 2...) Ha this is funny (I made my previous post before you posted yours though)
Although again....why does that make me scum?
Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 08:45 gonzaw wrote:
Town...you impress me
Jingle is town, but he's bad. Bolded bad. Chill out, don't OMGUS, pay attention and don't get all cocky and arrogant and spam the thread with those defenses of yours.
The way you argued and interacted with people and the way you kept "shitting things up" even though it was obvious you should have stopped doing that as scum makes me think there's a chance you can be town, so take that chance and try to play better.
ghost and Nisani are likely scum I think, Mementos and Crossfire are there too.
ghost/Nisani/Mementos/Crossfire/Drazerk
I think all remaining scum are in there Talking shit, fairly random change of opinion about Draz, who he formerly thought wasn't scum, who really wasn't doing much that could be more than a null tell, yet again accusing half the thread. (Oops, like I said, if we suspect him, must be an OMGUS!)
Ever since this post of yours, you've been calling me almost "confirmed scum" even though the last thing you said about me was "getting paranoid".
For instance these are the next posts you make about me/Matt:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=13#248
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=13#257
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=14#265
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=15#292
Out of nowhere you suddenly have strong scumreads on me and Matt, even though you barely talked about us. Again, you just mentioned the "I'm paranoid about him because of X, Y and Z", and then you started saying things like "yeah gonzaw makes a 'placeholder' vote and will be back after the deadline that's so fabricated"
After the lynch came this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=20#399
..where you basically consider me "confirmed scum" and you keep the same attitude ever since, even though I didn't do anything at all since my last post from D1.
I just went from "guy you were paranoid about" to "confirmed scum" even when I didn't do anything at all and you didn't even "find" scummy things or made a case.
How the hell am I supposed to interpret that?
Also, I forgot:
I'm sure someone will scream OMGUS at me saying that
It's you the one that was obsessed with "people will call OMGUS on me", not me.
Again, remember this post where you were whining about the same exact thing before anything related to OMGUS happened in the thread at all: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=8#159
Also remember what I wrote:
Chill out, don't OMGUS, pay attention and don't get all cocky and arrogant and spam the thread with those defenses of yours.
It's not "lol Jingle is OMGUSing me that stupid bitch". It's advice.
Advice that apparently means I was "starting a fight" with you that I still don't get at this point in time.
Why did I make that advice? Well see above (you considering me almost confirmed scum "out of nowhere" and getting all pissy about it).
Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote:
@S&B: Dude, start posting NOW or I'll do everything in my power to kill you.
If I can ever be justified in tunneling the hell out of you in any game we play together it's in this one. You only have 7 freaking posts, 4 of them having less than 3 lines.
Hmmm. He spent the entire next day on Nisani, IIRC?
People change their minds. I said I was going to look into Nisani/Drazerk/S&B/Mementos on D2 and that's what I did. After I re-checked their filters I figured Nisani was more likely scum than S&B, even though S&B didn't do shit at all (I started to realize that maybe S&B was being too obvious as scum and was legitimately busy, which made me doubt my scumread on him later on D2)
Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 11:08 gonzaw wrote:
Night Kill Speculation:
Well, let's just first assume it was a scum kill.
Seems that scum were scared they couldn't actively push Mementos because of his "town cred" of voting iamperfection first and sticking with his vote.
Sadly, he then says: Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 11:38 gonzaw wrote:
Scum Speculation:
Well, thank you scum for shooting a suspect instead of, let's say, Hiro or Keirathi or austin.
Huh? That makes a lot of sense....
Ehmm...I don't get this part.
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Can anyone who actually read page 39 tell me if it's worth my time to actually read page 39? Seriously, an entire page of Gonzaw and JH bickering?
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It makes both of them look pretty bad. Especially jinglehell imo.
So I want to kill one of the following people tomorrow:
- Drazerk
- Gonzaw
- Jinglehell
- Ghost
based on process of elimination combining my townreads and hunches with the iamperfection voters.
Out of the iamperfection voters mattchew is the only one I think would be likely to bus his godfather on day 1 when it's completely unnecessary, so we shouldn't give him tooooo much towncred for that. Some town cred is okay though.
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i don't want no town cred for that, i want town cred for my big ass case on you thats all true except for the fact that I guess you might be town
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
we really shouldn't give anyone town cred for the Iamperfection lynch it was just a horrible day for everyone
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Gonzaw the Scum, Part 2
I'm sure you'll understand if I just completely ignore his "defense" of part 1 that mostly consists of him continuing to dismiss the case without actually defending shit, which I kinda expected anyways, hence why I waited until someone besides him asked for it.
On October 03 2012 11:42 gonzaw wrote:
Jingle, I just want you to answer me this:
You are willing to entertain the idea that 2 of the most active players, and most contributors (in a way) are scum but you won't entertain the idea that guys that didn't do shit on D1 or N1, where never around, didn't care about discussion or the lynch at all, and the only contribution they had was 1 post with a "list" of reads that were full of fluff aren't?
Entertain the idea please, at least so you pay attention to them. If you think they are town and me or austin scum then please state so
This was one of those non-defenses... implying active people can't be scum, and people who just post huge lists probably are. I know it's been a few posts since Part 1, but hopefully we all remember plenty of examples of Gonzaw just posting huge lists?
+ Show Spoiler [Rolefishing] +On October 03 2012 12:35 gonzaw wrote:
There wasn't a lightning rod in the last Aperture Mafia game...?
Do you at least have evidence of there being a lightning rod in any game of mafia?
It doesn't make much sense, who used it? Scum? Then they can't use any abilities on anybody and can only use them on the guy they kill.
Town? Then they can tunnel all scum actions into anybody of his choice. He's basically a vig that saves all scum KP and abilities the same night he makes a shot, and that's unbalanced as hell
3rd party? That's the only possibility I can see but it still seems like a stretch
Is there anything in particular why you mentioned that? What makes you think there could be a lightning rod? Aren't all KP/actions accounted for? Or is it because apparently Mementos didn't jail anybody? (Nisani, S&B and I think Crossfire have yet to claim though) On October 03 2012 13:06 gonzaw wrote:
If there is one and he's town he should claim, because if not he'll fuck any analysis that can be made from night actions (both kill and made by blues).
Doubt he exists anyway.
Drazerk, what do you think about what happened these past few hours? Do you agree with Jingle+Keirathi, or maybe with me, or with neither of us? On October 04 2012 02:56 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +also i've thought about it and i think that saying this is a good idea right now: my night action was successful but i don't have complete control over who it targets. Fuck I hate it when people do this. Now i have to wonder all game whether this is true or if you are scum that just took the chance to claim made a night action to misdirect people.
Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 23:07 austinmcc wrote:
On searching for roleblocked people
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? Anyone who was roleblocked shouldn't be claiming, and should easily understand this. Apparently there's a role that swaps players on the player list, and anyone who swaps into whoever Mementoss targeted's spot on the list would be JKed.
So claiming rb = probably claiming JK = giving mafia knowledge about protections. I don't see a town purpose to having that info in thread. How is the player list swapping important even if we know who Mementos jailed? Maybe I'm not understanding it fully though On October 05 2012 00:16 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, that's interesting, S&B could be 3rd party alright.
However there wasn't any additional KP last night, so we can assume if there's a 3rd party it's not a SK kind of role right? Maybe it's more of a survivor, or like someone said a lyncher (and he has to get Drazerk lynched for instance).
I wanted to see if someone claimed JKed or shot because of this as well, to see if there are additional KPs flying around.
If the 3rd party has no KP, shouldn't we focus on killing scum that have KP?
Hmm, I'm kind of torn about it, but it does seem like Nisani scum and S&B 3rd party are possible. I just can't comprehend S&B's play this game.
Anyways, Jingle and Keirathi, you guys have effectively spend all D2 FoSing me and nothing else, and right now you are wasting your votes and not contributing at all. Wtf dudes? On October 05 2012 01:25 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, if P-BODY claims it could go on to basically confirm both of you as town (or really bold 3rd parties), or at least put both of you into the spotlight and see if your actions at night confirm you both (if for instance you "save" another shot).
Who was your target that was shot? I don't see any reason to not claim since scum would shoot him anyways, and it may semi-confirm him as town as well (unless he was shot by a SK-type role).
When P-BODY targets player X and you target player Y, then it means both you and P-Body target both X and Y at the same time? Or did I get that wrong?
Another thing: If scum shoot you directly, do you take a hit to your "extra lives" as well? Or do you die instantly?
Hmm, well, I don't see why we shouldn't lynch Nisani today, unless in a weird state of events he claims P-Body (but I heavily doubt it).
Also, again like always I'm leaving to uni until after the deadline (cue Jingle FoSing me again). I'm leaving in about 1 hour or so.On October 05 2012 01:42 gonzaw wrote:
If P-Body claims then he couldn't have made up that stuff. That's like the easiest way to see if his claim is legit or not (P-Body should have a similar claim) On October 05 2012 01:51 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 01:48 strongandbig wrote:
Gonzaw I've said - I don't know whether or not P-BODY is town or scum or third party. I'm guessing he's town because of the flavor - I think the odds are good but I don't think it's conclusive and you can't treat it as 100% that the people claiming those are the same alignment. If someone claims P-Body it confirms both your roles. It means you weren't lying your ass out there when you are in fact "Aperture Turret Nº 2" or something like that. It proves you are ATLAS and it proves the other guy is P-BODY (and if you are both scum making a gambit, surely another ALTAS/P-BODY can claim or you'd get found out very easily) That's a lot of information that helps town tremendously, and it also puts a lot of pressure on both of you (so you keep your promises with night actions and stuff, and you keep up contributions and shit) to help us figure out your real alignments. On October 05 2012 01:53 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 01:51 Drazerk wrote:
Because role names have no say on alignment how do you not know this yet? Yeah, because GlaDOS could obviously be town. You may have been given a fake-claim as scum, it's a possibility; but if you are scum I want you to take the chance and expose yourself (even then there may be inconsistencies with what you claim and your own abilities. For instance if you claim "Companion Cube" I couldn't possibly believe you would be a vig, so we lynch you) Give us your role name Ok, I think I've made this particular point?
On October 05 2012 01:53 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 01:52 Mattchew wrote:
gonzaw how do you know the numbers of the scum team?
I'm assuming they are 3
Speaks for itself, but even I have to admit that this sort of evidence is barely damning in and of itself.
On October 05 2012 12:05 gonzaw wrote:
Yes, that's what I see now, which is why this game is giving me a headache right now.
No, Mattchew is most likely town and I don't doubt that....at least for now.
If I have to make a quick response about "who's scum" I'd have to say one of these:
Hiro-ghost-Drazerk-Jingle
But I'm not in the mood right now to start completely changing my reads on them.
Being in this situation also makes me doubt the other players still (Mattchew, austin and Crossfire).
Again, the "easiest" answer I can give you without having to drastically change my point of view is "Drazerk" and maybe "Jingle" (because honestly he's the easiest one I can FoS and just say "maybe he's that reckless as scum anyway" and brush it off).
I have to reread filters though, I can't answer anything seriously until I do. Hopefully tomorrow I have time and go to uni later in the day and not so early.
Semi-randomly suggesting which of his earlier town reads he'd throw out. Since he's suddenly running out of people he thought were scummy. Maybe he tried to hard to look town by calling people town?
On October 05 2012 13:13 gonzaw wrote:
How about we lynch you until you make that case? Does that sound good?
Remember how hard he was trying to force me making a case? You'd think he'd have more responses than "That doesn't make sense" and "You're just too shit to get it, and that's advice, not an insult" and "OMGUS". Ok, so we're pretty caught up now.
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TL;DR version, Gonzaw tries to force reactions, Gonzaw alternately suspects everyone and nobody, Gonzaw gets miffed if people ignore his accusations, then ignores other people's accusations, Gonzaw rolefishes, Gonzaw = Scum.
Make sure to read all of both parts, and check his filter for yourselves, there's so much shit in there I'm almost sure I missed stuff.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Gonzaw is probably a good target if you guys are too chicken to lynch one of the Pbody/Atlas Duo
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I think I'll stop playing mafia again for a while after this game. I felt good at D1-N1 but now I just feel kind of shitty (for various reasons)
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On October 06 2012 01:49 Drazerk wrote:
Gonzaw is probably a good target if you guys are too chicken to lynch one of the Pbody/Atlas Duo
If you're so worried about them not being the same alignment, why do you want to lynch "one of the duo"
You seem legitimately concerned about snb, but I don't see you with a scumread on Keirathi. Given that clear preference, and given that you don't seem convinced both are the same alignment, why are you advocating lynching ONE of the duo, when a Keirathi lynch wouldn't give you any information about snb if you think they could be different alignments.
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Austin, you dug through my refurbished case on Gonzaw yet? Or Drazzy? Or anyone else, but those two have posted recently. And god knows I've been asked to give opinions on other people's reads enough this game to do it myself.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:37 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:49 Drazerk wrote:
Gonzaw is probably a good target if you guys are too chicken to lynch one of the Pbody/Atlas Duo If you're so worried about them not being the same alignment, why do you want to lynch "one of the duo" You seem legitimately concerned about snb, but I don't see you with a scumread on Keirathi. Given that clear preference, and given that you don't seem convinced both are the same alignment, why are you advocating lynching ONE of the duo, when a Keirathi lynch wouldn't give you any information about snb if you think they could be different alignments.
Confirms the role but not the alignment
if they are lying about the role well we catch 2 scum
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On October 06 2012 02:42 JingleHell wrote:
Austin, you dug through my refurbished case on Gonzaw yet? Or Drazzy? Or anyone else, but those two have posted recently. And god knows I've been asked to give opinions on other people's reads enough this game to do it myself.
I've been reading Gonzaw's posts as giving out more reads than you have, doing less sheeping and trying to get other's opinions before giving his own than you put him on. But there are three things I see in his filter that I worry about, two of which you brought up:
(1)
You bring up the placeholder votes D1. He's the first vote on iamperfection, but the reasoning is:I don't have a strong read on him at all, but after rereading it's the strongest one I have.
None of his posts seemed to contribute at all, and even his ghost vote seemed "easy" to latch on. He doesn't have anything else to go on, so it's a safe bet I think.
ThenOn October 01 2012 23:44 gonzaw wrote:
We have like 0 information on the table, so it's VERY likely this lynch will be a misslynch, specially if there's some incognito scum in the group of Mementos/Hiro/Keirathi/(me lol)/etc that are driving discussion.
But fuck what else can we do, right?
I'm leaving in like 20 minutes and wondering if I should put my placeholder (or basically lynch vote) onto someone else.
I'm gonna eat now....so convince me people
And then the unvote and swap, On October 01 2012 23:58 gonzaw wrote:
Well, tough luck I'm leaving right now.
You know what, fuck it:
##Unvote: iamperfection
##Vote: JingleHell
I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on).
Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well.
So long people! Mementoss post on and votes iamperfection between Gonzaw's first and second posts there, but nothing else major happens concerning iamperfection in the meantime. Possible explanations: (1) Gonzaw doesn't want his vote stuck on scumbuddy and have to remove it later, Mementoss's joining him on iamperfection makes him want off; (2) Gonzaw actually had weak scumread on iamperfection and now feels worse about Jingle.
I dislike that swap. There's a townie explanation I guess, but neither vote is explained all that much. He also fits the bill of someone who was busy/not around towards lynch and so couldn't do anything about iamperfection.
(2)
His fishing. I found that question to snb pretty scummy, and you've pulled out a lot of other quotes. Some of your quotes I don't think are fishing, I think you're casting too wide a net, but they're there. Specifically, after N1 in trying to find out whether mementoss's role was used:
On October 03 2012 10:37 gonzaw wrote:
Interesting....very interesting.
First things first: Was someone saved? Did a vig shoot someone? Was someone RBed. On October 03 2012 11:08 gonzaw wrote:
Setup Speculation:
Disclaimer: Ignore this if you are butthurt about setup speculation and night kill speculation
I take it Mementos did jail someone last night, so anyone claiming RBed would be nice to figure out who did.
Don't really know how that Rat Den thing works...are people still allowed to be jailed?
It's possible Mementos jailed Keirathi or austin and they were shot, meaning we'd have 3 remaining scum or a SK or maybe a vig shot Mementos (unlikely but still possible). Between wanting to know how snb could be shot, and wanting to know what player slot mementoss had jailed, that's a lot of fishing for how to get around protective roles/figure out how they work. The identity of mementoss's N1 target, if he targeted anyone, isn't something we really need. It only serves to let scum know where a jail is, if the jail stays after mementoss is gone.
(3)
This is a minor thing. But it just catches my eye every time I read it. Gonzaw's return to thread N1, after lynch:On October 02 2012 08:45 gonzaw wrote:
Town...you impress me
REST OF POST
It reads like Gonzaw is dissociating himself from town. I don't think I've ever seen one of these things ACTUALLY be a scumslip though, has anyone else? I feel like people always bring up stuff like this, someone using the wrong pronoun or whatever, showing that someone's mindset is that he's not included in town, but it just feels like strange wording.
Gonzaw. Concerning your votes on iamperfection and JH D1. You saidOkay, I just looked back and the only "momentum" iamperfection had was 1 post Mementos did. Nobody ever mentioned iamperfection at all before I left (check it here and in the next page). Hell other than that vote from Mementos there was no momentum on iamperfection
I did notice that, there was no momentum on iamperfection and I had to leave to uni in 10 minutes so I had to decide what to do: vote the guy that could be scum but has no momentum? Or vote the guy that could also be scum but may gain more momentum (you)?
Since Mattchew voted you I guessed the lynch would consolidate better against you than on iamperfection.
But to be honest, like I said it was a placeholder so I wasn't sure who I wanted lynched, I just voted you in the spur of the moment for those reasons above. Can you be a little more thorough when you're talking about momentum here? What made you think that there was less momentum on iamperfection, who had just garnered 2 votes from you and mementoss, than on JH, who had an 18-hour old vote from Mattchew (and who you'd already UNVOTED after Mattchew had voted. You were on him before Mattchew's vote, then hopped off of him ATER Mattchew's vote, then back on because of the momentum of Mattchew's old vote?).
I remember you doing a lot of speculating in Can't Believe, and it looked bad. I remember finding you absolutely scummy when obsing that Magic game because of your speculating. So I know the speculation and fishing might be townie, even though you're poking around some scummy areas. But the momentum explanation for the vote doesn't really explain why you'd UNVOTE JH after Mattchew's vote, then re-vote later because of "momentum" and being more certain town would consolidate on JH. Nobody was joining Mattchew, and mementoss had just joined you on iamperfection.
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On October 06 2012 03:00 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:37 austinmcc wrote:On October 06 2012 01:49 Drazerk wrote:
Gonzaw is probably a good target if you guys are too chicken to lynch one of the Pbody/Atlas Duo If you're so worried about them not being the same alignment, why do you want to lynch "one of the duo" You seem legitimately concerned about snb, but I don't see you with a scumread on Keirathi. Given that clear preference, and given that you don't seem convinced both are the same alignment, why are you advocating lynching ONE of the duo, when a Keirathi lynch wouldn't give you any information about snb if you think they could be different alignments. Confirms the role but not the alignment if they are lying about the role well we catch 2 scum
Okay. I think it's an awful idea to lynch one of them just in case they're taking that big a risk, but I see where you're coming from with that.
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On October 06 2012 03:33 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:00 Drazerk wrote:On October 06 2012 02:37 austinmcc wrote:On October 06 2012 01:49 Drazerk wrote:
Gonzaw is probably a good target if you guys are too chicken to lynch one of the Pbody/Atlas Duo If you're so worried about them not being the same alignment, why do you want to lynch "one of the duo" You seem legitimately concerned about snb, but I don't see you with a scumread on Keirathi. Given that clear preference, and given that you don't seem convinced both are the same alignment, why are you advocating lynching ONE of the duo, when a Keirathi lynch wouldn't give you any information about snb if you think they could be different alignments. Confirms the role but not the alignment if they are lying about the role well we catch 2 scum Okay. I think it's an awful idea to lynch one of them just in case they're taking that big a risk, but I see where you're coming from with that.
Ask me after the daypost, assuming we're alive, what possible scum motive I see for lynching to confirm the roles now, rather than just holding onto the knowledge and treating them as confirmed until given a reason to do otherwise. Discussing it at night would have severe anti-town potential.
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And you're right, it may entirely be too wide of a net. I actually left a lot of shit out to try and avoid diluting excessively, but I figure given that I could easily be accused of confirmation bias (which, might I add, doesn't mean I'm automatically and categorically WRONG in finding Gonzaw scummy) it's better to provide a LOT of backing, rather than looking like I'm overly cherrypicking one or two posts.
Usually, providing a LOT of raw data increases the chances of some of that data not going the direction you want. Thus, it's more fair-minded, and demonstrates that I'm not just basing my assumptions off of one or two things that, on their own, would be tiny.
Just because a lot of the individual shreds of it are small, doesn't mean they don't add up to a lot.
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I'm currently reading filters, but I'll answer some questions (I won't answer Jingle's 2nd case since I don't think there's anything to respond to):
from austin:
Can you be a little more thorough when you're talking about momentum here? What made you think that there was less momentum on iamperfection, who had just garnered 2 votes from you and mementoss, than on JH, who had an 18-hour old vote from Mattchew (and who you'd already UNVOTED after Mattchew had voted. You were on him before Mattchew's vote, then hopped off of him ATER Mattchew's vote, then back on because of the momentum of Mattchew's old vote?).
I remember you doing a lot of speculating in Can't Believe, and it looked bad. I remember finding you absolutely scummy when obsing that Magic game because of your speculating. So I know the speculation and fishing might be townie, even though you're poking around some scummy areas. But the momentum explanation for the vote doesn't really explain why you'd UNVOTE JH after Mattchew's vote, then re-vote later because of "momentum" and being more certain town would consolidate on JH. Nobody was joining Mattchew, and mementoss had just joined you on iamperfection.
Yes, Mementos voted iamp, but that's only 1 other vote from a guy that never showed up at discussions and had very little thread presence.
If one guy shows up, casts his vote on 1 other guy and then leaves, barely showing up later to drive the wagon against that guy or be part of discussion...do you think that's momentum? (also, I don't consider my own vote as "momentum" since I can change it anytime I want).
It's not. I voted iamp based on a hunch about "who of these null guys is the most scummy?". Only Mementos showed up with his vote and after that didn't do anything about iamperfection (he just asked me 1 question).
That's the opposite of momentum, hell I'd consider that a lack of interest in his lynch. Remember 8 frigging hours passed between me voting iamperfection and me unvoting him...and nothing happened in between, there was no momentum, nothing, only iamperfection accusing ghost a little bit more and me explaining him why voting ghost is easy and why his vote on ghost was easy.
I may not have given the best explanation about thinking Jingle would have the "most momentum", but Mattchew had voted him and found him scummy, and I think other people posted suspicions on him.
You know how Mattchew acted before, he was pretty active and contributing and shit. He wouldn't act like Mementos and cast 1 vote and disappear from the face of the earth, if he wanted to lynch someone he'd get that lynch done.
Again, having lots of weak reads, with the one I had a "hunch" on not going anywhere, in the very little time I had left I rethought my stance on Jingle, thought about this whole "It's more likely Jingle can get lynched because of Mattchew/momentum/shit", got paranoid about Jingle acting all "oh if I do anything at all people will say I was OMGUSing therefore I won't do anything" and whiny and in the spur of the moment I voted him.
I don't think I even thought about voting Jingle when I was writing that 1st part of the post. When I decided to vote him I wrote that "fuck it" line and went to uni.
I don't know why speculating is bad lol. Like...townies have almost 0 information (unless they are blue). Yes, I know townies should "speculate" on their own and then basically post when everything fits in their heads...but well that rarely happens in my case. I rarely have a "very convincing idea" in my head when reading the game that I can just make into 1 post and then leave and be done with it. I need the discussion, I need people posting to see their behaviour and attitude and mannerisms when they do, and also at times some opinions on the guys I'm suspicious of to see how the rest of town thinks of them (to make up my mind).
I don't think I was ever able to fake that as scum...like ever.
This is the only aspect where people don't use meta on me to find me townie :/
About (2) (the role/blue/etc fishing):
Yes I was fishing. I want to know the crazy shit that's going on in this game to understand it better.
Also maybe you guys don't know but I also have abilities and stuff (not a big deal, I assume every townie has at least 1 ability) and I have to make sense of all that's happening to use them properly or know when/how to use them.
I didn't want people to just go claiming and shit, but rather know basic stuff like who was JKed, who was RBed, if something weird happened (like someone getting "visited by a demon" or some shit), etc.
If you remember, the night ended with just 1 kill and no claims of actions whatsoever. Considering this is a heavily themed game that was weird as fuck (I would have expected at least 1 scum having the power to incinerate someone or stripping someone from his votes or something like that).
On October 06 2012 03:41 JingleHell wrote:
And you're right, it may entirely be too wide of a net. I actually left a lot of shit out to try and avoid diluting excessively, but I figure given that I could easily be accused of confirmation bias (which, might I add, doesn't mean I'm automatically and categorically WRONG in finding Gonzaw scummy) it's better to provide a LOT of backing, rather than looking like I'm overly cherrypicking one or two posts.
Usually, providing a LOT of raw data increases the chances of some of that data not going the direction you want. Thus, it's more fair-minded, and demonstrates that I'm not just basing my assumptions off of one or two things that, on their own, would be tiny.
Just because a lot of the individual shreds of it are small, doesn't mean they don't add up to a lot.
Generally if you try to analyze every single detail about someone else's play you'll encounter that problem. You'll get a lot of "raw data" that you can't just handle and may use confirmation bias, or may get confused, or may try to dwell into WIFOM and fuck up with your head (there are times where this happens to me a lot).
Anyways, I guess I'm kind of angry at you because I know my own intentions that I had in my posts and I know you are heavily misinterpreting them.
Huh, I guess that's the problem with playing in text-form.
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EPT
