EPTAperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition - Page 41
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [defense] + This was one of those non-defenses... implying active people can't be scum, and people who just post huge lists probably are. I know it's been a few posts since Part 1, but hopefully we all remember plenty of examples of Gonzaw just posting huge lists? Not alignment-indicative Speaks for itself, but even I have to admit that this sort of evidence is barely damning in and of itself. Not alignment-indicative, even you admit it is not. Semi-randomly suggesting which of his earlier town reads he'd throw out. Since he's suddenly running out of people he thought were scummy. Maybe he tried to hard to look town by calling people town? Confirmation bias Remember how hard he was trying to force me making a case? You'd think he'd have more responses than "That doesn't make sense" and "You're just too shit to get it, and that's advice, not an insult" and "OMGUS". Ok, so we're pretty caught up now. Irrelevant, not alignment-indicative I don't see anything I did wrong. In fact I should be actually calling you out since I made a perfectly reasonable defense and you straight up ignored it to post a bunch of unrelated stuff and label it a "case" (I won't since that's not really alignment-indicative of you, at least in the context of this game). | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 05 2012 13:13 gonzaw wrote: How about we lynch you until you make that case? Does that sound good? On October 05 2012 13:14 gonzaw wrote: Hell, if I'm so "obvious" scum it should be easy as hell for you to make that case on me. If I'm scum I'm basically begging you to catch me, convince everybody I'm scum and get me lynched. So why aren't you taking that chance? Don't you want other guys like austin/Crossfire/etc who think I'm town to realize what a scummy monster I am? On October 05 2012 13:18 gonzaw wrote: If you are town, make a case against me. It's what any sane townie would do in your situation (I'm "obvious scum" to you and town desperately needs a scum lynch on D3). If you don't I'll try to get you lynched for it, it's as easy as that (to either motivate you to stop fucking around if you are town or to just get you lynched if you are scum). Okay, that's as far as I'll go getting aggressive here, I'm past that point in my mafia career, no need to get all pissy about it. On October 06 2012 03:56 gonzaw wrote: I'm currently reading filters, but I'll answer some questions (I won't answer Jingle's 2nd case since I don't think there's anything to respond to): Seriously, after all that harassment, to summarily dismiss the case (Which you did with most of the first part too, in case you'd forgotten) is completely pathetic, and doesn't exactly come off very convincing. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:07 gonzaw wrote: You "ignored" my defense and completely dismissed it without any good reason and your 2nd case has nothing damning at all. + Show Spoiler [defense] + This was one of those non-defenses... implying active people can't be scum, and people who just post huge lists probably are. I know it's been a few posts since Part 1, but hopefully we all remember plenty of examples of Gonzaw just posting huge lists? Not alignment-indicative Speaks for itself, but even I have to admit that this sort of evidence is barely damning in and of itself. Not alignment-indicative, even you admit it is not. Semi-randomly suggesting which of his earlier town reads he'd throw out. Since he's suddenly running out of people he thought were scummy. Maybe he tried to hard to look town by calling people town? Confirmation bias Remember how hard he was trying to force me making a case? You'd think he'd have more responses than "That doesn't make sense" and "You're just too shit to get it, and that's advice, not an insult" and "OMGUS". Ok, so we're pretty caught up now. Irrelevant, not alignment-indicative I don't see anything I did wrong. In fact I should be actually calling you out since I made a perfectly reasonable defense and you straight up ignored it to post a bunch of unrelated stuff and label it a "case" (I won't since that's not really alignment-indicative of you, at least in the context of this game). Do you need me to quote the part of Part 1 where I straight up said I would post the other half later? Or can you find it for yourself when you're not busy dismissing the majority of my points out of hand? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I've seen you fish as town. I speculate as town. But it's troubling when you're only doing it over protective roles, and especially troubling when one reason you were fishing is to try and get scum to shoot someone who claimed a protective role so that we wouldn't have him as a suspect. Like, Drazerk's claim. Believe, not believe? If not believe, scummy or Drazerk-y? As to the momentum, yeah. 8 hours and no real push on iamperfection. But 15 hours and no real push on JH since Mattchew's vote. The biggest move on JH between Mattchew's vote and then your final vote was ... you unvoting him shortly after Mattchew's vote. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I see you are still convinced I'm scum and won't change your mind no matter anything I do. Let me give you another piece advice: Step back, read filters, preferably read the thread as well and try to analyze the flow of the thread in this game and how I participated in it, with what motivation I did and what I achieved doing so If you still think I'm scum then, well I'll be disappointed but at least I'll be somewhat relieved that you at least tried and are most likely town (if you are scum you wouldn't put that effort at all) and that you at least are trying to win this game for town (whether you are wrong about me or not). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:12 austinmcc wrote: Gonzaw, I've seen you fish as town. I speculate as town. But it's troubling when you're only doing it over protective roles, and especially troubling when one reason you were fishing is to try and get scum to shoot someone who claimed a protective role so that we wouldn't have him as a suspect. Well, I don't know any other mechanics to specify information on. There may be a "town bus driver who roleblocks those he visits and sends them to purgatory where they play cards and each gain 1-shot bullet to use at day" but I can't go asking "did someone receive a 1-shot bullet after being RBed by a town bus driver?" (yeah kind of over-exaggerating here but you get the point). I can basically just ask if someone was JK'd (the JK just flipped), RBed or if something strange happened. Like, Drazerk's claim. Believe, not believe? If not believe, scummy or Drazerk-y? Having finished reading the filters. Unless you want the "short but possibly unfounded" answer. As to the momentum, yeah. 8 hours and no real push on iamperfection. But 15 hours and no real push on JH since Mattchew's vote. The biggest move on JH between Mattchew's vote and then your final vote was ... you unvoting him shortly after Mattchew's vote. Again, Mattchew>Mementos in terms of town presence And again, I made the choice in less than 10 minutes, I couldn't analyze everything. If you want I can just answer "I flipped a coin" and be done with it, since at some level it was basically that; I'm just rationalizing why I made one decision and not the other. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:13 gonzaw wrote: I did not dismiss the case, stop lying. I see you are still convinced I'm scum and won't change your mind no matter anything I do. Let me give you another piece advice: Step back, read filters, preferably read the thread as well and try to analyze the flow of the thread in this game and how I participated in it, with what motivation I did and what I achieved doing so If you still think I'm scum then, well I'll be disappointed but at least I'll be somewhat relieved that you at least tried and are most likely town (if you are scum you wouldn't put that effort at all) and that you at least are trying to win this game for town (whether you are wrong about me or not). Some choice bits from your initial "defense"... you can feel free to explain how they aren't dismissive. I don't get what you are saying here at all. Ehmm...I don't get this part. Those are both dismissals. A lot of other things, you just say things like... It's not "lol Jingle is OMGUSing me that stupid bitch". It's advice. Advice that apparently means I was "starting a fight" with you that I still don't get at this point in time. Still don't get it? That's writing it off, I'm pretty sure anyone who speaks English knows that that sounds hostile. Although again....why does that make me scum? lol no, you only were "paranoid" about me by that point, and you even posted that post after I started working on mine There's very much an inherent dismissal in those comments. There's very little "Here's how you misunderstood me" and a whole lot of "Yeah whatever" in your "defense". The second part, you completely and literally refused to respond to. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:26 strongandbig wrote: jinglehell you're far and away more hostile than he is, why are you attacking him for being hostile? Want the link to him starting it? It was in the case, but I kind of expected everyone to ignore it, since they want to sheep the scum.... | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
One other thing (besides the whole Nisani thing that I mentioned way earlier in day2, that I still think holds merit. He defended himself, but its still scummy regardless of what he says after-the-fact), is how gonzaw, while writing pretty large walls of text, has said throughout the game "I'm in a hurry so I can't explain this right now, ask me about it and I'll explain later". Which, I could understand, under normal circumstances. But nearly every time he's said it, its been in a large post that obviously took time to write. Not necessarily scummy, but its definitely struck me as odd. However, I think we should be lynching Drazerk today. First off, the whole "fight with S&B" thing is such an easy thing to hide behind if he rolled scum. And, ironically, if he rolled scum, who would be the most likely to get him lynched? S&B. So, what has he done? 1) Pushed S&B day 1 2) Claimed to have shot S&B night 1 3) Pushed S&B day 2 4) Still wants to lynch either S&B or me on night 2 Literally everything that he has done in this game has been about eliminated S&B. I'm still not willing to divulge my powers, but if I die, then it gives scum a free kill on S&B, so you can see where 1) that benefits Drazerk and 2) I take offense to wanting to kill the only 99% confirmed town I have in this game. His entire game has felt like purely self-preservation, rather than helping the town win. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:27 JingleHell wrote: Want the link to him starting it? It was in the case, but I kind of expected everyone to ignore it, since they want to sheep the scum.... what are you, seven? and am i your dad? idgaf who started it, you are being way more aggro than he is right now. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:36 strongandbig wrote: what are you, seven? and am i your dad? idgaf who started it, you are being way more aggro than he is right now. What are you, stupid? And am I your teacher? The person who starts shit is very relevant if ongoing hostilities are somehow going to be used as a scumtell. He got on his knees and begged for it, just like he begged for the case he ignored. Trying to make me giving him what he wanted worse than him wanting it is hysterical. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
....damn communication is sure failing hard in this game. I had to be a little bit "agressive" in parts because that's how defending against cases works (in trying to convince you how bad your point is for instance). Everybody does it, in every single game, every time, whether town or scum or 3rd party. You can't get butthurt over that @Keirathi: I was getting that feel after reading some filters and reasserting town reads I had (haven't finished yet), but I want to ask you one question: S&B got shot, Drazerk claimed the shot as 1-shot vigilante, and nobody else did. We can assume then that no other townie shot S&B, and it was Drazerk either way, right? If Drazerk didn't shoot him, then he's lying, therefore he's scum, but scum shot him and that includes Drazerk; therefore Drazerk shot him. My question is: did Drazerk shoot S&B or Hiro? (S&B claimed he protected Hiro). Unless Drazerk is 3rd party SK I don't see why he'd kill S&B as scum. I mean, scum would waste 2 KP on Mementos and S&B? I don't think I buy that. So basically: is Drazerk 3rd party who killed S&B so S&B didn't get on his ass (or maybe even shot Hiro as SK); or is Drazerk scum and shot Hiro? (or of course another explanation if you have one) (let this be an answer to austin in the meatime as well...the "short unfounded one") | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:35 Drazerk wrote: Killing me is self preservation of yourself Kei.... No, killing you is trying to help the town win because I know who two townies are and you're willing to kill both of them off. You just want to kill S&B because you don't like him. There's a remarkable difference in the mindsets here, IMO. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:41 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, those are not points I'm "dismissing". Those are points I want you to address again since I didn't understand them... ....damn communication is sure failing hard in this game. I had to be a little bit "agressive" in parts because that's how defending against cases works (in trying to convince you how bad your point is for instance). Everybody does it, in every single game, every time, whether town or scum or 3rd party. You can't get butthurt over that No, that's you dismissing them. If you don't understand the points, I can't help you in the slightest. I didn't write it for your benefit anyways, because I knew you'd do exactly that. I wrote it for Keirathi, and everyone else. The people who I need to have voting for you so we can get scum again. If you refuse to read it, refuse to understand it, and refuse to address it, when others seem to at least grasp what I'm saying even when they disagree, it's no harm to me. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
.. Wait I've read the N2 thread and noticed they posted: On October 05 2012 14:12 HiroPro wrote: Why are you concerned about this? You're always the person who says that town should get rid of you at some point. On October 06 2012 00:24 ghost_403 wrote: Can anyone who actually read page 39 tell me if it's worth my time to actually read page 39? Seriously, an entire page of Gonzaw and JH bickering? ...are you guys planning on making those your only posts from N2? Sure, most likely we are 8-2 and have like 2 more days before arriving at LYLO...but seriously. On October 06 2012 04:45 JingleHell wrote: If you don't understand the points, I can't help you in the slightest ... | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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