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On February 15 2014 07:16 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:12 Ishentar wrote:
As far as I know, no official reason was given to justify why the french community can't have a french stream. But I think it is safe to assume that the Twitch problem isn't the real deal. indeed.
But well, so far we can make guesses :
The facts :
- O'Gaming/Millenium/aAa had all talks with Blizzard and ESL to try to have the right to stream the WCS.
- LoL IEM had a french stream on Twitch, same for some other events such as DreamHacks... french organizations would agree to stream these events on twitch but not WCS ? I don't think that our french community is making drama just to make drama.
- O'Gaming/Millenium/aAa said that the french community isn't allowed to have his own WCS stream.
Then, I guess that the Twitch reason isn't a real reason. Indeed french TVs that are "on air" all the day long on SC2 must have like at least 3 times less viewers on their stream than on big tournaments streams. Then, except if Dailymotion pays like 10 times better than twitch (i highly doubt it), this isn't less worth for them than a standard stream (which must be worth, either the TV would die). In the end, the reason must be elsewhere but remains unknown.
Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:13 andoRRR wrote:
Well, if Twitch pays money to Blizzard, which is highly possible, then it's the same as in real sports. just because NBC says "we want to show NBA games" they are not allowed to do that because other stations paid for the rights. If that's the case here with Twitch/Dailymotion then it's totally understandable. In this case, then it might be a revenue sharing issue. This is pure speculation here. But ESL might have wanted the revenues generated from French streams, while the French organizers wanted to keep the revenue. Since French organizers wouldn't give up the rights to the revenues, ESL denied them? I repeat, this may be pure speculation on the issue. If it wasn't a streaming platform issue, that is.
i didn't think of that but it can be this, because like i said before wcs were already streamed on twitch by french organization so i don't know why it would be an issue here
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Could it be a matter of not wanting to have casts in other languages? Just trying to think outside the box a bit.
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On February 15 2014 07:18 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:16 Waise wrote:On February 15 2014 07:14 Complete wrote:
...It's slightly ridiculous that their response to this is to make it public to get the community mad at them.
... true, but the community shares blame for being drama-hungry and being willing to get angry or make assumptions based on very few facts The community isn't a professional organization.
so what? people should behave rationally whether they're professional or not o_O i agree professionalism is a separate issue, but let's call a spade a spade. if people overreact and help create drama, that's their fault. no one is forcing people to do that
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On February 15 2014 07:14 Complete wrote:
...It's slightly ridiculous that their response to this is to make it public to get the community mad at them.
...
I'd say it's more than slightly ridiculous, and highly unproffesional. O'Gaming basicaly shot themselfs in a foot in any incoming bussines negotiations. If it was me to make a deal with them... i just wouldn't make anymore deals with them.
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Northern Ireland26362 Posts
On February 15 2014 07:09 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:06 Wombat_NI wrote:
Not sure what to think.
I don't like the Twitch monopoly, frankly I think it has given them carte blanche to not improve their service for quite some time now. However, they do have an exclusivity contract by the sounds of it, so are within the rights to enforce it. it's hard to call it a "monopoly" because SC2 esport is a very niche business and WCS/blizzard are the only relevant organization in terms of providing the content that most people care about watching. it's different from talking about something like, for example, cable companies being bought out in the US, because millions of people watch cable for lots of different reasons and different tastes. SC2 is just SC2 and if one organization has the winning bid to provide streaming service, what can you do about it? you have to treat it with the perspective that SC2 just isn't a major enterprise
Streaming as a whole business appears to be on the upward curve though, Twitch getting exclusive access to such premium content to the detriment of other services means they don't have to address the problems of their service, especially to certain parts of the globe.
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How can anyone be so ignorant to say that they would have to use Twitch.tv if asked for over Dailymotion?
At the end of the day, this is blizzards tournament, and according to their official rules they only suggest Twitch as the platform to use, it's not a requirement for WCS tournaments.
If using Dailymotion is the platform which has the biggest reach in the French community, it should be their obligation to use it, for the sake of eSport and the tournament.
Also, while it might be due to the fact that it has lower amount of streamers but Dailymotion is soo much more stable to watch than Twitch who has only gotten worse at least in EU over a long period of time(ok, recently they improved their servers slightly but in the past it used to be better than it is currently, it's still a horrible platform).
As with everyone, of course I don't know if this was the deciding factor, but that people can even think for a second that ESL should be able to dictate the streaming platform of their partners is just disgusting....
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Well it does only make sense for them to ban streams on a competing platform, seeing as they're partnered with Twitch. And as for people voluntarily using Dailymotion for anything, well, Twitch must be really awful in the French speaking parts of Europe if that's what they're resorting to.
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This sucks. Twitch is a pretty terrible streaming service for vast majority of European regions and have been for sometime. Not much effort on twitch side of things to fix a lot of their problems because they have no real competition. Hope they work things out, besides Sweden, France has a pretty huge sc2 following.
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On February 15 2014 07:27 Cinim wrote:
How can anyone be so ignorant to say that they would have to use Twitch.tv if asked for over Dailymotion?
At the end of the day, this is blizzards tournament, and according to their official rules they only suggest Twitch as the platform to use, it's not a requirement for WCS tournaments.
If using Dailymotion is the platform which has the biggest reach in the French community, it should be their obligation to use it, for the sake of eSport and the tournament.
Also, while it might be due to the fact that it has lower amount of streamers but Dailymotion is soo much more stable to watch than Twitch who has only gotten worse at least in EU over a long period of time(ok, recently they improved their servers slightly but in the past it used to be better than it is currently, it's still a horrible platform).
As with everyone, of course I don't know if this was the deciding factor, but that people can even think for a second that ESL should be able to dictate the streaming platform of their partners is just disgusting....
Well ESL is organizer of WCS EU and because of this has right to dictate everythink that is legal to their partners. Theres nothing disgusting about that. Its just bussines and ESL is sharing the cake by giving the rights to stream something, so they obiviously can make the rules about this sharing. Parties in this situation are definityly not equal.
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All I can say by having a good knowledge of these structures is that they are all very serious and professional ones, certainly better than 90 % of other WCS streams.
All of them have the blizzard licence to make tournaments, all of them have decent webTVs all of them always paid their players on time and all of them are very implied in the starcraft II scene.
This news is bullshit, i can understand if its for the dailymotion thing tho since blizzard have signed a contract its only normal to respect it.
Any other reason is not acceptable.
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On February 15 2014 07:27 Cinim wrote:
How can anyone be so ignorant to say that they would have to use Twitch.tv if asked for over Dailymotion?
At the end of the day, this is blizzards tournament, and according to their official rules they only suggest Twitch as the platform to use, it's not a requirement for WCS tournaments.
If using Dailymotion is the platform which has the biggest reach in the French community, it should be their obligation to use it, for the sake of eSport and the tournament.
Also, while it might be due to the fact that it has lower amount of streamers but Dailymotion is soo much more stable to watch than Twitch who has only gotten worse at least in EU over a long period of time(ok, recently they improved their servers slightly but in the past it used to be better than it is currently, it's still a horrible platform).
As with everyone, of course I don't know if this was the deciding factor, but that people can even think for a second that ESL should be able to dictate the streaming platform of their partners is just disgusting....
...It really isn't, It's called a partnership.
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The main problem here is that we're discussing why the french community isn't allowed to stream the WCS whereas no official reason has been given...
An official statement would really help the point.
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French organisations quarreling with internationals ones and acting like childrens.
How fucking familiar. And they wonder why only pure casuals watch french streams.
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Why would you defend ESL's anti-competitive behavior (if we accept the above premise, we're still speculating)? Even if it makes business sense for ESL to make their partner twitch the sole platform, it is obviously harmful to the SC2 scene as a whole to cut off the very important french community from streaming on what is for them a very important platform (as backer of the teams and organizations). Only ESL wins, everyone else loses. Why anyone without a financial stake in ESL would accept that is beyond me.
I understand that daeilymotion has the same problems in the US that twitch has in much of Europe, but trust me when I tell you that for many Europeans dailymotion is the better and more consistent platform.
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Dailymotion has a CPM 4 or 5 times higher than twitch, that's why they want to use the french platform otherwise it's not profitable.
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Poland375 Posts
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL
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On February 15 2014 07:41 Amiralsims wrote:
Dailymotion has a CPM 4 or 5 times higher than twitch, that's why they want to use the french platform otherwise it's not profitable.
Yeah, in fact they would lose money by streaming WCS on Twitch (compared to an average stream on DM).
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On February 15 2014 07:41 m0ck wrote:
Why would you defend ESL's anti-competitive behavior (if we accept the above premise, we're still speculating)? Even if it makes business sense for ESL to make their partner twitch the sole platform, it is obviously harmful to the SC2 scene as a whole to cut off the very important french community from streaming on what is for them a very important platform (as backer of the teams and organizations). Only ESL wins, everyone else loses. Why anyone without a financial stake in ESL would accept that is beyond me.
I understand that daeilymotion has the same problems in the US that twitch has in much of Europe, but trust me when I tell you that for many Europeans dailymotion is the better and more consistent platform.
Maybe people here understand that if ESL wont make a profit they will not organize anything? And ESL giving up on SC2 would be more harmful to the scene?
Or maybe people here simply understand how the bussines work and dont like childish behaviour, from serious companies.
//EDIT
Well seeing Carmac's response i guess there is nothing more to talk about. Maybe except who the heck posted that info in the first place and why.
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On February 15 2014 07:32 Kylo55 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:27 Cinim wrote:
How can anyone be so ignorant to say that they would have to use Twitch.tv if asked for over Dailymotion?
At the end of the day, this is blizzards tournament, and according to their official rules they only suggest Twitch as the platform to use, it's not a requirement for WCS tournaments.
If using Dailymotion is the platform which has the biggest reach in the French community, it should be their obligation to use it, for the sake of eSport and the tournament.
Also, while it might be due to the fact that it has lower amount of streamers but Dailymotion is soo much more stable to watch than Twitch who has only gotten worse at least in EU over a long period of time(ok, recently they improved their servers slightly but in the past it used to be better than it is currently, it's still a horrible platform).
As with everyone, of course I don't know if this was the deciding factor, but that people can even think for a second that ESL should be able to dictate the streaming platform of their partners is just disgusting.... Well ESL is organizer of WCS EU and because of this has right to dictate everythink that is legal to their partners. Theres nothing disgusting about that. Its just bussines and ESL is sharing the cake by giving the rights to stream something, so they obiviously can make the rules about this sharing. Parties in this situation are definityly not equal.
If you think the business part of it truly matters that much you are quite wrong. To an organisation as a whole, the ad revenue from twitch is quite unsignificant, why else do you think that they show advertisements on the stream, independent from twitch itself?
And yes it is disgusting, they are basicly giving one platform monopoly, something which in the EU is actually illegal(once again, if the platform really IS the dealbreaker)
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Carmac improved a lot his english since he was a troll on sk forums I must say. No offense, no ban pls, I used to argue a lot with him back in the days 
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EPT
