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On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL
Well, I hope that is true, and also that you allow them to stream on whatever platform they choose, at the end of the day openness like that will benefit all of you the most
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On February 15 2014 07:48 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:32 Kylo55 wrote:On February 15 2014 07:27 Cinim wrote:
How can anyone be so ignorant to say that they would have to use Twitch.tv if asked for over Dailymotion?
At the end of the day, this is blizzards tournament, and according to their official rules they only suggest Twitch as the platform to use, it's not a requirement for WCS tournaments.
If using Dailymotion is the platform which has the biggest reach in the French community, it should be their obligation to use it, for the sake of eSport and the tournament.
Also, while it might be due to the fact that it has lower amount of streamers but Dailymotion is soo much more stable to watch than Twitch who has only gotten worse at least in EU over a long period of time(ok, recently they improved their servers slightly but in the past it used to be better than it is currently, it's still a horrible platform).
As with everyone, of course I don't know if this was the deciding factor, but that people can even think for a second that ESL should be able to dictate the streaming platform of their partners is just disgusting.... Well ESL is organizer of WCS EU and because of this has right to dictate everythink that is legal to their partners. Theres nothing disgusting about that. Its just bussines and ESL is sharing the cake by giving the rights to stream something, so they obiviously can make the rules about this sharing. Parties in this situation are definityly not equal. If you think the business part of it truly matters that much you are quite wrong. To an organisation as a whole, the ad revenue from twitch is quite unsignificant, why else do you think that they show advertisements on the stream, independent from twitch itself? And yes it is disgusting, they are basicly giving one platform monopoly, something which in the EU is actually illegal(once again, if the platform really IS the dealbreaker)
It seems that the whole thing was simply not true. But i have to say that telling partner that you can broadcast ONE event on only one platform is far from monopoly, as far as it gets i would say. Nothing to argue about though. Im not a lawyer, but i would never call a thing like that a monopoly.
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On February 15 2014 06:57 Norz wrote:
This is typical french to refuse to adapt to english though. I do agree they kinda have a point, but it's so typical of them, really annoys me.
Also dailymotion is really, REALLY terrible.
For those that doesn't understand French situation. A lot of french internet providers are reducing heavily the band on purpose on TwitchTv and youtube so the only healthy streaming place is Dailymotion for us. So please don't say bullshit assumptions without knowing the french situation at least . Thanks!
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On February 15 2014 06:57 MCXD wrote:Can someone enlightenment as to why the french organizations in particular associate with Dailymotion so much in the first place? Is DM french owned or something? (EDIT: Okay I checked, it is indeed french owned) Also yeah if there is some sort of money being passed around for twitch exclusivity and what have you, then I see no problems here, had they refused to stream on twitch. Alternatively, is there something in the Blizzard rules or whatever that disallows restreaming? It could be as simple as that. This entire thing reeks of taking things out of context and trying to stir up drama over nothing.
DM is indeed french owned, but it's also been stated by all french streamers that it's CPM is also higher.
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On February 15 2014 04:54 SC2Kerri wrote:
Dear Starcraft II community,
My name is Sebastien « Kerri », I am the Starcraft II Tournament Director at O’Gaming TV.
France has one of the biggest community in Europe and is very structured thanks to two very professional TVs: O’Gaming TV & Millenium TV. You probably know us and you already followed our different products: Dailymotion Cup , NationWars, MSI Pro Cup, Numericable M-House Cup, Iron Squid I & II. We made the best players come in our country, we gave to the Starcraft II fans the best shows and gathered the French-speaking countries on high-quality streams.
O’Gaming, aAa – which was in charge of casting WCS in 2013 - and Millenium have recently wanted to build a partnership and to work together to apply for casting in French WCS Europe. This Partnership is for us the best way to enable all our fans meet the biggest SC2 competition with all the best French casters.
Today, ESL Decision was given to us: Access to the WCS is forbidden to French organizations.
On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL
So now we have two completely conflicting statements. However, if O'Gaming wont broadcast when Carmac has said they are free to do so, then I'm more inclined to believe O'Gaming. If they don't broadcast, then I think it's likely they have a reason that they can't.
At the same time, Michal is probably much higher up on the ladder than Sebastien is, so his word does carry a bit more weight.
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not sure why it is even a problem. esl/blizzard is providing the WCS EU, therefore they make the rules.
I feel bad for the french SC2 community as they are the ones who suffer from this without being at fault at all here. it seems to work well with every other casting partner why cant the french organisations just follow suit?
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On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
so it IS a twitch exclusivity issue
Kerri was just plain lying to get the community in his favor (french is forbidden), really bad way to address the issue and to communicate (big surprise...)
On February 15 2014 06:59 Lonyo wrote:
If it's a Twitch thing, that's really stupid. If the Twitch partnership is preventing people streaming on other services, Twitch should make their service usable first, THEN ban other services.
or, you know, just make their service better and not ban anything at all
anyway, i'll just resume on hating on blizzard for being bad (every other game handles esport better, lol, dota, csgo... multiple streaming platforms, ingame spectating, etc...)
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On February 15 2014 07:47 Kylo55 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:41 m0ck wrote:
Why would you defend ESL's anti-competitive behavior (if we accept the above premise, we're still speculating)? Even if it makes business sense for ESL to make their partner twitch the sole platform, it is obviously harmful to the SC2 scene as a whole to cut off the very important french community from streaming on what is for them a very important platform (as backer of the teams and organizations). Only ESL wins, everyone else loses. Why anyone without a financial stake in ESL would accept that is beyond me.
I understand that daeilymotion has the same problems in the US that twitch has in much of Europe, but trust me when I tell you that for many Europeans dailymotion is the better and more consistent platform. Maybe people here understand that if ESL wont make a profit they will not organize anything? And ESL giving up on SC2 would be more harmful to the scene? Or maybe people here simply understand how the bussines work and dont like childish behaviour, from serious companies. //EDIT Well seeing Carmac's response i guess there is nothing more to talk about. Maybe except who the heck posted that info in the first place and why.
If you remember, Dreamhack very much wanted to be the European partner for the broadcasting of WCS Europe. This is not a situation without viable alternatives to ESL and in any case, jumping to an extreme and letting the question of choice of platforms be a matter of life or death for ESL is laughable and wholly invented by you in order to defend ESL's decision.
Calling people disagreeing with the decision childish speaks more to your view of authority than anything else, I think.
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i hope everything will resolve asap
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On February 15 2014 07:14 Complete wrote:
...It's slightly ridiculous that their response to this is to make it public to get the community mad at them.
...
How do you figure? What should they have done? waited for this season to be over and fuck over tous les personnes francais!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I think they're doing the right thing, especially if they have exhausted all other options. They weren't disrespectful or unprofessional about ESL in the post, just stated the problem, the facts from their side, and called it a day.
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The problem is not twitch or dailymotion.
The fact is that ESL claiming a percentage of income that generate the stream of wcs on millenium or ogaming. The fact is that ESL is too greedy.
So in the end it's all a question of money.
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On February 15 2014 07:52 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL Well, I hope that is true, and also that you allow them to stream on whatever platform they choose, at the end of the day openness like that will benefit all of you the most
Wouldn't put my hopes up high. Blizzard made it clear that Twitch is the official partner for WCS, so I doubt that we will ever see the main events of WCS on a plattform other than Twitch. I don't like it either, but that decision has been made over half a year ago.
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On February 15 2014 08:11 iknowthetrue wrote:
The problem is not twitch or dailymotion.
The fact is that ESL claiming a percentage of income that generate the stream of wcs on millenium or ogaming. The fact is that ESL is too greedy.
So in the end it's all a question of money.
Do you have any sources for this? And also do they want extra money from the french stream compared to the several streams of the other countries?
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On February 15 2014 08:14 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:52 Cinim wrote:On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL Well, I hope that is true, and also that you allow them to stream on whatever platform they choose, at the end of the day openness like that will benefit all of you the most Wouldn't put my hopes up high. Blizzard made it clear that Twitch is the official partner for WCS, so I doubt that we will ever see the main events of WCS on a plattform other than Twitch. I don't like it either, but that decision has been made over half a year ago.
I said it before, saying it again now. Twitch tv is according to blizzard NOT the official partner.
ESL might say it is for EU but blizzard has never announced anything, please read their full report about it...
Twitch is a partner of WCS but there is no requirement that you only stream on that platform,
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On February 15 2014 08:09 ProBot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 07:14 Complete wrote:
...It's slightly ridiculous that their response to this is to make it public to get the community mad at them.
... How do you figure? What should they have done? waited for this season to be over and fuck over tous les personnes francais!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I think they're doing the right thing, especially if they have exhausted all other options. They weren't disrespectful or unprofessional about ESL in the post, just stated the problem, the facts from their side, and called it a day.
Stating that WCS has banned French organizations from streaming when the issue is in fact all about the platform is a very deliberate way of trying to re-frame the issue to make ESL look bad by implying that they have some kind of prejudice against France or the French language. It's a distortion that sidesteps the real issue in favor of something inflammatory and misleading.
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On February 15 2014 08:16 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 08:14 JustPassingBy wrote:On February 15 2014 07:52 Cinim wrote:On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL Well, I hope that is true, and also that you allow them to stream on whatever platform they choose, at the end of the day openness like that will benefit all of you the most Wouldn't put my hopes up high. Blizzard made it clear that Twitch is the official partner for WCS, so I doubt that we will ever see the main events of WCS on a plattform other than Twitch. I don't like it either, but that decision has been made over half a year ago. I said it before, saying it again now. Twitch tv is according to blizzard NOT the official partner. ESL might say it is for EU but blizzard has never announced anything, please read their full report about it... Twitch is a partner of WCS but there is no requirement that you only stream on that platform,
Aren't you contradicting yourself? I claimed that Twitch is the (I meant in the sense of streaming plattforms) official partner for WCS, then you say that it is "NOT the official partner" only to say "Twitch is a partner of WCS" afterwards...
Anyways, my point is that according to blizzard's WCS site, Twitch is a partner of WCS. So even if there is no clause of having to broadcast on Twitch exclusively, it wouldn't be a wise decision to sour the relationship too your partner by broadcasting on a competitor.
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On February 15 2014 08:22 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 08:09 ProBot wrote:On February 15 2014 07:14 Complete wrote:
...It's slightly ridiculous that their response to this is to make it public to get the community mad at them.
... How do you figure? What should they have done? waited for this season to be over and fuck over tous les personnes francais!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I think they're doing the right thing, especially if they have exhausted all other options. They weren't disrespectful or unprofessional about ESL in the post, just stated the problem, the facts from their side, and called it a day. Stating that WCS has banned French organizations from streaming when the issue is in fact all about the platform is a very deliberate way of trying to re-frame the issue to make ESL look bad by implying that they have some kind of prejudice against France or the French language. It's a distortion that sidesteps the real issue in favor of something inflammatory and misleading.
It's funny and quite ironic that exactly what you are claiming that the guy from O'gaming is doing to ESL is what you are doing right now the other way around, please think before doing your next comment 
Especially because to the french community, outting Dailymotion and banning them completely from covering the tournament is almost the same thing ^^
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On February 15 2014 08:26 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 08:16 Cinim wrote:On February 15 2014 08:14 JustPassingBy wrote:On February 15 2014 07:52 Cinim wrote:On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL Well, I hope that is true, and also that you allow them to stream on whatever platform they choose, at the end of the day openness like that will benefit all of you the most Wouldn't put my hopes up high. Blizzard made it clear that Twitch is the official partner for WCS, so I doubt that we will ever see the main events of WCS on a plattform other than Twitch. I don't like it either, but that decision has been made over half a year ago. I said it before, saying it again now. Twitch tv is according to blizzard NOT the official partner. ESL might say it is for EU but blizzard has never announced anything, please read their full report about it... Twitch is a partner of WCS but there is no requirement that you only stream on that platform, Aren't you contradicting yourself? I claimed that Twitch is the (or 'a') official partner for WCS, then you say that it is "NOT the official partner" only to say "Twitch is a partner of WCS" afterwards... Anyways, my point is that according to blizzard's WCS site, Twitch is a partner of WCS. So even if there is no clause of having to broadcast on Twitch exclusively, it wouldn't be a wise decision to sour the relationship too your partner by broadcasting on a competitor.
Yes true, I phrased that a bit wrongly according to what I meant to say.
But still, since it's not an actualy requirement that they have to stream on twitch, it's really disgusting if that is indeed the reason that they exclude them from covering the event.
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On February 15 2014 08:27 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 08:22 forsooth wrote:On February 15 2014 08:09 ProBot wrote:On February 15 2014 07:14 Complete wrote:
...It's slightly ridiculous that their response to this is to make it public to get the community mad at them.
... How do you figure? What should they have done? waited for this season to be over and fuck over tous les personnes francais!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I think they're doing the right thing, especially if they have exhausted all other options. They weren't disrespectful or unprofessional about ESL in the post, just stated the problem, the facts from their side, and called it a day. Stating that WCS has banned French organizations from streaming when the issue is in fact all about the platform is a very deliberate way of trying to re-frame the issue to make ESL look bad by implying that they have some kind of prejudice against France or the French language. It's a distortion that sidesteps the real issue in favor of something inflammatory and misleading. It's funny and quite ironic that exactly what you are claiming that the guy from O'gaming is doing to ESL is what you are doing right now the other way around, please think before doing your next comment Especially because to the french community, outting Dailymotion and banning them completely from covering the tournament is almost the same thing ^^
But "outting Dailymotion", if you mean not allowing Dailymotion, makes sense though, banning them outright does not.
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On February 15 2014 08:28 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 08:26 JustPassingBy wrote:On February 15 2014 08:16 Cinim wrote:On February 15 2014 08:14 JustPassingBy wrote:On February 15 2014 07:52 Cinim wrote:On February 15 2014 07:44 Carmac wrote:
It is not true that OgamingTV, Millenium or Team aAa were barred from broadcasting WCS Europe. OgamingTV is free to broadcast WCS Europe on Twitch, the broadcasting partner of WCS Europe, next Tuesday.
Obtaining broadcasting rights for WCS Europe was not something that we made difficult and the fact that the league has been broadcasted in five different languages is evidence of that.
The ESL and Blizzard have nothing against OgamingTV broadcasting the StarCraft II World Championship Series in French. We have the highest regard and admiration for the quality of their work and see them as a valued supporter of the StarCraft II community.
The conversations about the conditions which OgamingTV would want to stream WCS Europe under (including broadcasting on platforms other than Twitch) were ongoing in good faith and we hope those will continue.
Michal Blicharz
Managing Director Pro Gaming, ESL Well, I hope that is true, and also that you allow them to stream on whatever platform they choose, at the end of the day openness like that will benefit all of you the most Wouldn't put my hopes up high. Blizzard made it clear that Twitch is the official partner for WCS, so I doubt that we will ever see the main events of WCS on a plattform other than Twitch. I don't like it either, but that decision has been made over half a year ago. I said it before, saying it again now. Twitch tv is according to blizzard NOT the official partner. ESL might say it is for EU but blizzard has never announced anything, please read their full report about it... Twitch is a partner of WCS but there is no requirement that you only stream on that platform, Aren't you contradicting yourself? I claimed that Twitch is the (or 'a') official partner for WCS, then you say that it is "NOT the official partner" only to say "Twitch is a partner of WCS" afterwards... Anyways, my point is that according to blizzard's WCS site, Twitch is a partner of WCS. So even if there is no clause of having to broadcast on Twitch exclusively, it wouldn't be a wise decision to sour the relationship too your partner by broadcasting on a competitor. Yes true, I phrased that a bit wrongly according to what I meant to say. But still, since it's not an actualy requirement that they have to stream on twitch, it's really disgusting if that is indeed the reason that they exclude them from covering the event.
Well, whether that is disgusting depends on personal opinion. I for one think that it makes sense not to start anything with a competitor of a partner in the context of the very project that you are partnering up for. Besides, we are purely speculating in the first place whether this criteria (a) exists and (b) was the main point of contention.
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EPT
