|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On July 08 2012 13:18 KingLumps wrote:
What are your guys' thoughts on a colossus-less PvZ? I've been playing my PvZ without them lately and getting ht/storm instead. So my army is usually immortal/stalker/ht/archon mid to mid late game (the only thing you really have to get after is ms) before mass bls.
My thoughts are:
1) colossus aren't really good after Zerg starts getting a lot of bl, they help in the beginning but not much longer than that, while hts and archon are needed late game
2) colossus seem to be good for hitting a timing right before hive and/or greater spire are done. I feel this is a great time to do lots of damage but if you don't, or zerg can delay you until he has his tier 3, seems kinda scary
3) hts are needed against a muta transitions
4) storm plus immortals seem to handle any late heavy roach play just as well as colossus
5) colossus aren't good against any (rare) ultra bane style as archons and storm are better. Seriously Colossi arent good vs any tier 3 Zerg tech
The cons that I can think of:
1) colossus are better at countering the infestor tech that zergs have to get
2) lack of robo bay means no warp prism speed which is very helpful for harassment
3) colossus have an attack, hts don't so it's more micro intensive.
Just wondering what other fellow toss think
Nothing stops you from adding on a couple colossus later on into your composition; they definitely give blink stalkers breathing room from broodlings/fungals vs broodlords. Regardless, stalker/ht/immortal is a perfectly viable composition and has been for a long time.
|
Hey guys, can i know whether MC's 2base 7gate all in is a good choice for a PvZ when a Z goes for 2/3base play ?
|
On July 09 2012 19:53 Misuari wrote:
Hey guys, can i know whether MC's 2base 7gate all in is a good choice for a PvZ when a Z goes for 2/3base play ?
As the name says its an allin. Excecute it well, hide it from your opponent and if he does not respond well you win the game. Otherwise you most likely will not because its the equivalent to an 6 Rax Marine-Allin in TvP.
|
Hi everyone,
I hear a lot of the protoss 2 bases all-in, but i never really tried it except for the 8 gates +1 attack push @9:00.
So which easy all-in can i do against Terran and particularly against Zerg.
Not only all-in but also good timing push on 2 base
I'm top plat.
Thank you.
|
|
|
On July 08 2012 13:18 KingLumps wrote:
What are your guys' thoughts on a colossus-less PvZ? I've been playing my PvZ without them lately and getting ht/storm instead. So my army is usually immortal/stalker/ht/archon mid to mid late game (the only thing you really have to get after is ms) before mass bls.
My thoughts are:
1) colossus aren't really good after Zerg starts getting a lot of bl, they help in the beginning but not much longer than that, while hts and archon are needed late game
2) colossus seem to be good for hitting a timing right before hive and/or greater spire are done. I feel this is a great time to do lots of damage but if you don't, or zerg can delay you until he has his tier 3, seems kinda scary
3) hts are needed against a muta transitions
4) storm plus immortals seem to handle any late heavy roach play just as well as colossus
5) colossus aren't good against any (rare) ultra bane style as archons and storm are better. Seriously Colossi arent good vs any tier 3 Zerg tech
The cons that I can think of:
1) colossus are better at countering the infestor tech that zergs have to get
2) lack of robo bay means no warp prism speed which is very helpful for harassment
3) colossus have an attack, hts don't so it's more micro intensive.
Just wondering what other fellow toss think
I kinda agree on most of your points, but I still feel its good with a couple of colossus later in the game when the
zerg probably have a ton of spines and infestors. You can deal with infestors with HT, but if they play very defensive and
stay around the spines it can be hard. Colossus have the great range to deal with them both
|
On July 09 2012 14:13 etherealfall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 10:38 Czarkasm wrote:
What is the "Standard" build vs. each race? I would like to know 1 to learn against each race for starting out PvZ - I FFE into fast third off 1 gate and robo PvP - I FE off 1 gate and robo after 2 sentries and an immortal PvT - I FE off 1 gate and proceed into CreatorPrime double forge
So FE is the safe standard way to go against each matchup you think?
|
Ok thank you,
but i dont really think i have enough multitasking to macro while blinking my stalker... I am false ? Im only plat
|
|
|
7 gate Blink stalker is fine; I remember seeing a platinum player who was getting coached by Axslav win games with it, and he didn't even do any blink micro, he just threw down some force fields.
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On July 10 2012 00:13 Czarkasm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 14:13 etherealfall wrote:On July 09 2012 10:38 Czarkasm wrote:
What is the "Standard" build vs. each race? I would like to know 1 to learn against each race for starting out PvZ - I FFE into fast third off 1 gate and robo PvP - I FE off 1 gate and robo after 2 sentries and an immortal PvT - I FE off 1 gate and proceed into CreatorPrime double forge So FE is the safe standard way to go against each matchup you think?
Not really in PvP. Only if the other guy isn't agressive, if he is aggressive - FE will die, die and die. What this guy is doing, FE of 1 gate robo after 2 sentries and immortal, i really admire him if he is pulling that off on ladder.
|
|
|
On July 10 2012 01:07 Mesha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 00:13 Czarkasm wrote:On July 09 2012 14:13 etherealfall wrote:On July 09 2012 10:38 Czarkasm wrote:
What is the "Standard" build vs. each race? I would like to know 1 to learn against each race for starting out PvZ - I FFE into fast third off 1 gate and robo PvP - I FE off 1 gate and robo after 2 sentries and an immortal PvT - I FE off 1 gate and proceed into CreatorPrime double forge So FE is the safe standard way to go against each matchup you think? Not really in PvP. Only if the other guy isn't agressive, if he is aggressive - FE will die, die and die. What this guy is doing, FE of 1 gate robo after 2 sentries and immortal, i really admire him if he is pulling that off on ladder.
You can actually hold nearly everything with a 3 stalker rush into expand at 30 then 2 sentries then robo then another 2 sentries. The only thing that is really hard is delayed 4 gate and pheonix 4 gate.
|
Hey guys, Masters player on NA here. I haven't played SC2 since September 2011 and wondering whats the new Protoss builds that people generally do?
PvT
PvZ
PvP
What maps are bad for Protoss? Also, if you could link me to the B.O. it would be nice, but thanks anyways, for just reading!
|
On July 10 2012 17:23 MuffinFTW wrote:
Hey guys, Masters player on NA here. I haven't played SC2 since September 2011 and wondering whats the new Protoss builds that people generally do?
PvT
PvZ
PvP
What maps are bad for Protoss? Also, if you could link me to the B.O. it would be nice, but thanks anyways, for just reading!
PvT, 1 gate expand (variations on this), into some tech or gateway allin.
PvZ, forge expand into early pressure, 4 gate, immortal/sentry allin or taking 3rd.
PvP, 2 gate robo -> expo, blink + obs
|
On July 10 2012 17:23 MuffinFTW wrote:
Hey guys, Masters player on NA here. I haven't played SC2 since September 2011 and wondering whats the new Protoss builds that people generally do?
PvT
PvZ
PvP
Fus did a pretty good job explaining these, but I could give a few other details:
In PvT, the industry standard for playing a macro game is generally to go with a mass gateway style with double Forge, using blink stalkers to defend drops @~10 minutes and then getting charge and HTs after that for major engagements. It's not the only way to play the midgame, but it's the most common one these days.
In PvZ, there was a pretty long period of time when the standard was FFE vs 3 hatch no-gas into a ~12 minute Roach max attack on multiple fronts. It's a way easier attack to execute than it is to defend, so if you're not used to it then you're going to want to practice against it, or at least do some reading on how people handle it. This is prettymuch why the main midgame composition for taking a 3rd base in PvZ is a lot of sentries and boosted Immortals, and then you generally get blink stalkers from there so you can reinforce locations (or potentially defend muta switches, which are very common).
In PvP some maps are really good for Robo (Immortal) expansions and some are really good for blink stalkers. Cloud Kingdom and Antiga are really good for blink stalker play, so positioning your immortals is pretty challenging to the point where expansions are often delayed a little bit until you can stand up to blink stalkers with a critical mass of units or with your own blink. On Entombed Valley, however, blink isn't as hard to defend, so it's really easy to expand on that map and hold it.
What maps are bad for Protoss? Also, if you could link me to the B.O. it would be nice, but thanks anyways, for just reading!
Tal Darim Altar is a 4gate festival in PvP, since you don't have a 1 forcefield-sized ramp to defend your main base. It really narrows down the available strategies on that map, so a lot of protosses (including myself) thumbs it down.
Condemned Ridge was made by Blizzard, so it has a lot of serious problems: way too much dead space for air units, extremely wide-open third, etc. I love the concept, but Blizzard doesn't seem to understand some very fudamental concepts when it comes to fine-tuning their maps.
I would recommend thumbsing those down. I personally thumbs down Antiga as the third choice because I like the option to take a fourth base without jumping through a ton of hoops.
|
On July 10 2012 17:23 MuffinFTW wrote:
Hey guys, Masters player on NA here. I haven't played SC2 since September 2011 and wondering whats the new Protoss builds that people generally do?
PvT
PvZ
PvP
What maps are bad for Protoss? Also, if you could link me to the B.O. it would be nice, but thanks anyways, for just reading!
PvT: The same old 1 gate expand (nexus after stalker) is still by far the most popular build. However, there's a gate nexus core expand floating around (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341631) that some people use. A few months ago FFE (discussion here, couldn't find guide http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330756) had a spike in popularity but it seems to have died down a bit since then.
PvZ: I think the biggest innovation build-wise has been refined builds designed to take a third and put you in a good position against mass roach play as well as infestor/muta (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905). You might remember doing a lot of FFE into 4 gate +1 zealot pressure. It's much less common to do direct damage with this now; the best you can hope is some units but even then zergs are better at holding this off with minimal and late-as-possible units. It's basically just a tool to keep zergs honest now so faking it is a nice trick some people like to do. The main all-in people do these days is a mass gate immortal sentry push, either with robo first or 4 gate pressure first (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346737); this is popular to the point that a lot of casters try to call it when they see robo right after core (even when it ends up being an expand build). Late game it's always brood lord infestor mass spine for the zerg, and you pretty much need to get mothership archon to have a chance against this. Air play (carriers) is a very late-game transition that everyone talks about but it can only happen if you secure a lot of bases...
PvP: 4 gate is rare and definitely considered a cheese. 2 gate and 2 gate robo expands are much more common now (but I wouldn't say they are standard yet). Stargate openers are also way more common now (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=350993).
In addition to the maps mentioned by ineversmile I personally dislike antiga shipyard because of the layout of the main/nat/third and large surface area the main in pvt. It's also pretty difficult to hold a hard roach push because of the different angles an attack can strike when your army is positioned by the choke to the third. Here's a map veto thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344709).
|
On July 10 2012 00:13 Czarkasm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 14:13 etherealfall wrote:On July 09 2012 10:38 Czarkasm wrote:
What is the "Standard" build vs. each race? I would like to know 1 to learn against each race for starting out PvZ - I FFE into fast third off 1 gate and robo PvP - I FE off 1 gate and robo after 2 sentries and an immortal PvT - I FE off 1 gate and proceed into CreatorPrime double forge So FE is the safe standard way to go against each matchup you think?
Well PvP is still doubtful, though more and more people go for a risky FE instead of 1 base play.
But I must mention that on TDA it's 4 gate only (if it's still in ladder pool, as i vetoed it out)
|
Hey, I'm a 700 point master level protoss, pretty frustrated with PvT at the moment, I'm thinking my opener in the issue, I'm using the Sase/Naniwa double gas opener with 2 probes on each, doing the opening pretty well, but I have trouble following it up, there's always a point where the terran is 20 supply ahead of me, and I don't know how to fix that, and generally, if they attack me (like in this replay) I just die.
http://drop.sc/218006
|
Lately I've been attempting some 3 base play in PvZ, but still find it quite difficult to hold off mass roach, and find myself losing probably 70% of games against Stephano's build, despite using a build that's meant to be good against it. Thus I've gone back to using 2 base timings much more frequently. I've always used the immortal/sentry all-in variation with a warp prism that moves out around 10:00 and hits around 10:45 - 11:00. Though I've found that this timing seems to hit a bit too late against good zergs who can macro well enough, and if they're able to set up a good surround with enough units the push just dies. Are there variations of immortal/sentry that hit earlier (9-10 minutes), and if so how do they differ from the version I've been using?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
