The Korean dominance in recent events. What to do? - Page 28

On April 11 2012 00:19 murkk wrote:


Why would my playing SC have anything to do with whether or not thousands of Koreans make horrible life decisions in what to do with their time? No need to be defensive. For every Nestea there are tens of thousands of losers who've wasted a decade or more of their life (many started with SC1/BW) for absolutely no reason. It wasn't even fun for them. It's was just a pointless grind - like working in a coal mine 12 hours a day and not getting paid for it.

And people are somehow stating that we should be more like them. LOL. Holy crap that's funny.

On April 11 2012 00:04 Nihilnovi wrote:


Well, maybe it doesn't make you racist, since that is a bit harsh, but for me, as a fan of the game i want to see the best players play. If half of oGs or FXO turned up at a local tournament near me I would be excited as all hell, while by your logic i should be annoyed that they play there. You can hardly blame the korean players for being the best, you should instead blame your countries players for being so far behind the best players around and try to support your players instead of spreading hate towards other countries(in this case korea) players.

Sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm really trying hard to see this as anything other than blind patriotism and hate towards different cultures, or just trolling.

On April 11 2012 00:19 murkk wrote:


Why would my playing SC have anything to do with whether or not thousands of Koreans make horrible life decisions in what to do with their time? No need to be defensive. For every Nestea there are tens of thousands of losers who've wasted a decade or more of their life (many started with SC1/BW) for absolutely no reason. It wasn't even fun for them. It's was just a pointless grind - like working in a coal mine 12 hours a day and not getting paid for it.

And people are somehow stating that we should be more like them. LOL. Holy crap that's funny.

On April 11 2012 00:32 RageBot wrote:


So why don't you watch GSL? or KSL? there enough good games with Koreans in them.

Also, by my logic it's not you who should be annoyed, it is me and the majority of the SC2 viewerbase, get it? I understand that you prefer to watch good games, and it's great for you to have the GSL and the KSL, but you need to understand that us a viewer, people like me are more valuable, since we are the majority of the viewers, we bring the revenue, without us there's no MLG, no IPL, no DH, and without these there won't be enough money in the Korean scene to support the houses, and there's just not enough Korean viewers at home, so the Korean scene will also shrink like hell.

You also need to understand that I don't blame them for being the best, I actually have no problems with Koreans winning everything, however, when it's a Korean only top 4, top 8, top 16 etc, it is boring, there's already a GSL with better games, most people like the Koreans not only for the games, but for stuff like Stephano, Naniwa or HuK making great runs - can the foreigner underdog beat the Korean champion? Did you notice the incredible cheers, during MLG Providence, when it was announced that Haypro have beaten Nestea? Or the cheers when he was about to beat MVP?

And what should I blame the foreigners players for? For not throwing their lives away on a pipe dream? You don't get it, while Koreans don't get money for being in a team house, they don't have to pay for food, they don't have to pay for electricity, they don't have to pay for water and they don't have to pay rent, most foreigners would love an opportunity like this, but there's nothing like this in the west.

Also, spread hate? Againt other countries? Nope, no, only a fool can read what I said as something like that.
If anything, I spread hate towards people like you, who are close-minded, incapable of viewing the big picture, incapable of understanding what other people say, not understanding that their selfishness is destroying the thing that they love, and blame other people for being a hater.

On April 10 2012 07:06 yawnoC wrote:
Foreigners just need to work harder and stop making excuses. End of story.

On April 11 2012 00:34 Assirra wrote:

Isn't that how it goes in everything in the world if you want to be best?
How many failed tiger woods or jordan's are there?
Might as well tell your kids "Don't try, you will fail anyway"

On April 11 2012 00:22 DamageControL wrote:

What're the mysterious "actual points"? The marketability issue has been discussed. You assert casual fans are the majority with no evidence to back it up. Additionally, you never articulate why all casual fans are "anti-Korean."

In terms of simply limiting Koreans, I'm confused about what the bright line would be: how many Koreans is too much?

edit: @murkk, doubtless there are people who have wasted time. That is true in every competitive activity. Why should we cater to those who haven't made it? People are only saying we should be more like them because their system has produced the best.

On April 11 2012 00:35 Ghanburighan wrote:


Wait, did you just write that you are more valuable a fan than anyone that disagrees with you? And that Koreans make for boring games? And that there are no teams in the west that pay players for practicing? On top of that you call the guys that disagree with you fools...

Keep on rocking...

On April 11 2012 00:36 ref4 wrote:
I don't know why people like to watch "pros" that suck compete.

Me, I always like to watch best of the best, no matter what their nationality happens to be, whether they are Korean, Swedish, Saudi Arabian, Kenyans, w/e.

But it's always so fun to watch foreign pros who have legions of fans just because they are from the same country (i.e. IdrA and his Merican fans) get demolished and toyed with on their own soil.

Btw I am an American I love Korean pros because they are the best.

Why would my playing SC have anything to do with whether or not thousands of Koreans make horrible life decisions in what to do with their time? No need to be defensive

So, no, it is not racist to be happier when a foreigner wins than when a Korean wins

On April 10 2012 18:04 naastyOne wrote:
Hello everyone,

While I do understand that TL webforum is quite a "certain type of people" community, there is so ridiculous amound of not called upon fail i just wanted to get in.

First of all, sport is about the SHOW, not determining who has the longest dick. While skill is an integral part of the Show, more skill doesn`t necessary means better show. When about half of matches are predictably Korean terran MMM&drops, you might as well not watch half of the tournament. Simple as that, pick the "best"(the highest in position or whatever criterium) don`t waste time on the else. Obviously this is an example, but you get the drill.

Secondly 95% to 99% will not see the difference between the "code A" and "code S" doing same BO and style of play, while they can very vell notice different styles of play and different BOs. What does it means? Basically that there is no need for 90% of tournament to be super mega pro skilled players for it to be entertaining, on contray, such tournament is less predictable, and thurs more interesting.

That is the thing that is widely seen world-wide. The lesser leagues, i mean every friging european country has 2-3 leagues of football. Strangely, they have enough fans and money to live their life, despite the fact that uniting them into one "mega" league would result in overall "higher skill".

Could continue with other sports, but pretty much all sports have their lowest competitions at inter schools or inter-university levels, with kids/students playing in free of study time, so the argument holds perfectly.

Now, Look at SC2 itself. How many of the "skilled" players praise HD/day9/whoever, and dislike Husky(H to the usky husky). Guesswhat, Husky pretty much has larger auditory than all other english casters brought together. Ever thought why? Well, he manages to do the "show" part better, while casting same replays as others.

Ever wondered why the for example Football World Cup is much more noticeable and attended event than European Cup, despite the fact that Europeans dominate football, and a part from Argentina and Brazil, pretty much no national team can stand up? Despite the fact that a lot of European underdogs are probably better than some/most of teams from other than Europe/SA region.

So what does this means? It means in an order to survive and develop any sport needs a balance of local and international events, local and international teams, and most importantly content for broad spectre of dedication, and international events should be international, it should be serving to promote and advertise the sport apon broad community.

The problem may be not the IPL itself, but the fact that there is a lack of the local/non-korean tournaments, (while there are very plenty of korean dominated tournaments) and IPL was looking like the missing part, but it was just pretty much ended up as MLG, so largely failed to provide something different and unique.

Lastly, the ones about "they need to get better" got it upside down. When korea has community, which generates enough revenue to pay large enough number of pro-gamers for a living, In NA/EU, it does not exists, so foreign players can not really dedicate themselves to SC2, because they also have education and work which is not connected to SC2 and takes time from it.

Which again brings down the question of how to build up the international community, and "international tournaments"(coupled with local ones) are a great thing to do, bot only if the "domination of one nation" is impossible, otherwise the entire event serves only as another local competition for that country.

And the words of IPL4 manager pretty much confirms it, IPL4 failed on it`s purpose of an international tournament. Still interesting event, but largely irrelevant.

On April 11 2012 00:45 sCCrooked wrote:


Actually to place certain emphasis on any quality or emotion based solely on race is the VERY definition of racism. I swear its getting harder and harder on these boards to slip by without some racist against Koreans attributing every bit of hard work you do to you "just being Korean". Its really sad for you as people to show this sort of thing to be your true nature. Just ignorant racists.

On April 10 2012 23:46 RageBot wrote:
I find it hilarious, not a single person of the "pro-korean" posters have said anything about the actual points of the "anti-korean" posters.

You just blame us for being "racist", say stuff like "we should work harder" (while you are never part of that "we" since you are just a guy posting in TL without a hint of SC2 skill), you don't realize that we (the "casual" fans) are the majority (check out the voting on HuK vs Heart on the last MLG).

You also seem to be uncapable of realizing that we don't wish to ban Koreans altogether, we just don't want 30+ Koreans in a tournemant.

On April 11 2012 00:39 RRjr wrote:

Most of them can't.

As a westerner... from the moment you turn 18 you simply can't afford to invest the time required to become as good. Our society has no respect and a hell of a lot of prejudices towards progaming and e-sports in general. Hence, there's just no cultural and almost no financial backup. As long as that remains true foreigners will never be as good as Koreans, because this backup is required for skill of such caliber to arise.
Therefor when faced with the decision of pursuing progaming or whatever else, there's no choice for 99% of western gamers but to give up on progaming as a serious venture.

Western e-sports has to bring about nothing less that a cultural paradigm shift. To pull that off, a lot more money needs to be pumped into western e-sports in general. In order for a lot more money to be invested, the audience needs to grow and pay more. In order for the audience to grow and spend more money on e-sports, tournaments need to be exciting, competitive and rewarding.

So yeah... if you let Koreans stomp each and every tournament with all the background they have coming from Korea... SC2 will not grow much more as an e-sport. It's not cool but it's just the way it is, IMO.

On April 11 2012 00:41 RageBot wrote:


Seriously? Just look at the fanclubs
Idra still has more viewes on his fanclub than all of the Korean fanclubs, combined.
Who are the Koreans with the big fanclubs? MKP and MC, why? Because MC have been making a constant effort to connect to the foreign community (remember GSL march? When he talked english on the stage?) and MKP for being a very emotional player while having a very distinct playing style (at the beginning) and after that kept on being a personality (like while casting on homestory cup).
Also, look at the rest of the top foreigners, Stephano, HuK, Naniwa, all have 150+ fans on their fanclubs, foreigners are just liked more by more people, and this is TL, which is the most hardcore SC2 site, more casual people don't even post here.
And seriously?
The most viewed MLG was Orlando, in which HuK won and Idra made a great run.

Who are the most watched streamers? Idra, Huk, Naniwa And Stephano, Stephano can actually get more viewers on his stream then all of the Korean players combined, Idra did more than that in his prime (he got to 20,000 viewers once).

In the last MLG, there was a poll on "who is going to win", when it was between Huk and Heart, when Heart was ahead, who do you think won the poll? Huk did, by a 93%-7% ratio.

It is obvious that the casual fans are the majority, and that they prefer their foreigners over most of the Koreans.