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What not to do:
Limit seeds or opportunities for the best players of the world to enter tournaments
What to do:
Increase interest in the personalities behind the players, International or Korean. People don't necessarily cheer for players representing their country or 'the West'. People cheer for people with great skill and an interesting and engaging personality. Focus on building up personality (as in marketing).
I talked to Kennigit about marketing Korean players. I think he explains the point about marketing very well. Here's what he says about it:
Kennigit talks eSports - Koreans missing out on marketing opportunities?
Plus, what the post below says.
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1019 Posts
Come on dudes, these kinds of threads are ridiculous now. Threads like the OP are just thinly veiled suggestions at limiting or banning koreans from tournaments with the stupid reason that they are "too good". Foreigners hyped SC2 because they finally had a chance to compete with the koreans on a level playing field and now they are squirming in their seats because SC2 is not turning out how they thought it would. It's simply the difference in the effort that the koreans and the foreigners put in. If the koreans are going to put in 10 hours of practice everyday and if the foreigners are unwilling to do the same, the skill gap is only going to widen - and it already has.
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I find it hilarious, not a single person of the "pro-korean" posters have said anything about the actual points of the "anti-korean" posters.
You just blame us for being "racist", say stuff like "we should work harder" (while you are never part of that "we" since you are just a guy posting in TL without a hint of SC2 skill), you don't realize that we (the "casual" fans) are the majority (check out the voting on HuK vs Heart on the last MLG).
You also seem to be uncapable of realizing that we don't wish to ban Koreans altogether, we just don't want 30+ Koreans in a tournemant.
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Um, I guess we should be happy the best players in the world want to travel long distances so that a broader audience can enjoy the best play around?
I don't really see why this needs a topic :o
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On April 10 2012 22:48 white_horse wrote:
Come on dudes, these kinds of threads are ridiculous now. Threads like the OP are just thinly veiled suggestions at limiting or banning koreans from tournaments with the stupid reason that they are "too good". Foreigners hyped SC2 because they finally had a chance to compete with the koreans on a level playing field and now they are squirming in their seats because SC2 is not turning out how they thought it would. It's simply the difference in the effort that the koreans and the foreigners put in. If the koreans are going to put in 10 hours of practice everyday and if the foreigners are unwilling to do the same, the skill gap is only going to widen - and it already has.
I agree with this. Koreans are willing to work extremely hard for almost no pay. The majority of Korean pros make hardly any money except for the ones at the top (MKP, MC , Nestea etc).
In most foreign societies its more profitable to just get a random fast food job then to join a pro team as an unknown getting paid squat, training 10 hours a day and then not even be certain that you will "make it" as a pro.
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So many noobs in this thread don't understand how far back this korean dominance has went. It's not simply "You must work harder ", the Koreans have a better atmosphere than us.
A lot of ignorant answers to a problem that isn't simple.
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Whaddya mean "recent" events, Koreans have always been dominant...
Other than that, I agree that it was maybe a little too many Koreans this IPL, but other than that I think foreign tournaments have had a pretty good Korean/Foreigner ratio. You gotta remember that the GSTL Finals meant that a lot of Koreans made their way to Las Vegas that probably wouldn't have come otherwise.
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This is sad. If you want to compete with Korea's level, then get on Korea's level. Otherwise? Kindly keep to yourself. Its literally whining about people being better at something than you are and how apparently the very fact there are people better than you is "unfair". The casual fans need to accept that this is a game based off a game that spawned the world's greatest e-sport imho. Its GOING to be competitive and its GOING to have a very high skill ceiling that's practically impossible for 99.9999999999% of people to ever even dream of reaching simply because of constraints like time put into practice, monetary/budget issues, etc.
If you make this game your living, you too can become Korea's level. You want proof? Just look at what Sziky in BW managed to do against the odds in the amateur-pro scene. I'm sorry that the concept of "congregating gamers with like interests" or "setting up connections so you play with the best" is just beyond so many these days. Its not even a problem with the game or the system at that point, its under-developed people whining about their inability to network with people.
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On April 10 2012 23:46 RageBot wrote:
I find it hilarious, not a single person of the "pro-korean" posters have said anything about the actual points of the "anti-korean" posters.
You just blame us for being "racist", say stuff like "we should work harder" (while you are never part of that "we" since you are just a guy posting in TL without a hint of SC2 skill), you don't realize that we (the "casual" fans) are the majority (check out the voting on HuK vs Heart on the last MLG).
You also seem to be uncapable of realizing that we don't wish to ban Koreans altogether, we just don't want 30+ Koreans in a tournemant.
Well, maybe it doesn't make you racist, since that is a bit harsh, but for me, as a fan of the game i want to see the best players play. If half of oGs or FXO turned up at a local tournament near me I would be excited as all hell, while by your logic i should be annoyed that they play there. You can hardly blame the korean players for being the best, you should instead blame your countries players for being so far behind the best players around and try to support your players instead of spreading hate towards other countries(in this case korea) players.
Sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm really trying hard to see this as anything other than blind patriotism and hate towards different cultures, or just trolling.
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Um who cares if they are Korea or not? I want the best players to be at every tournament. Foreigners need to step up.
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It's true I quickly lose interest in a tournament after all foreigners have been beaten and only Koreans remain.
But that's also precisely why its so exciting to watch foreigners go far in, or even win tournaments.
We're all humans. If Koreans are better its because they're practicing, talking, experimenting, innovating. Nothing now is preventing foreigners from doing the same. The hardest working foreigners are still talking games off top Koreans. Yes the Koreans are advantaged from a historical/cultural standpoint for adopting high speed internet and PC rooms. I don't consider that a 'problem.' If it hurts your enjoyment of the game, tough (that goes for me too). If you think its 'unfair,' you need to grow up.
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On April 10 2012 11:35 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 10:11 murkk wrote:On April 10 2012 10:07 EchoZ wrote:
Work harder. People in NA and EUR are kinda wierd. We tend to like getting paid when we work. Generally more than 25 cents an hour. Cool. Stop playing SC then.
Why would my playing SC have anything to do with whether or not thousands of Koreans make horrible life decisions in what to do with their time? No need to be defensive. For every Nestea there are tens of thousands of losers who've wasted a decade or more of their life (many started with SC1/BW) for absolutely no reason. It wasn't even fun for them. It's was just a pointless grind - like working in a coal mine 12 hours a day and not getting paid for it.
And people are somehow stating that we should be more like them. LOL. Holy crap that's funny.
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On April 10 2012 23:46 RageBot wrote:
I find it hilarious, not a single person of the "pro-korean" posters have said anything about the actual points of the "anti-korean" posters.
You just blame us for being "racist", say stuff like "we should work harder" (while you are never part of that "we" since you are just a guy posting in TL without a hint of SC2 skill), you don't realize that we (the "casual" fans) are the majority (check out the voting on HuK vs Heart on the last MLG).
You also seem to be uncapable of realizing that we don't wish to ban Koreans altogether, we just don't want 30+ Koreans in a tournemant.
What're the mysterious "actual points"? The marketability issue has been discussed. You assert casual fans are the majority with no evidence to back it up. Additionally, you never articulate why all casual fans are "anti-Korean."
In terms of simply limiting Koreans, I'm confused about what the bright line would be: how many Koreans is too much?
edit: @murkk, doubtless there are people who have wasted time. That is true in every competitive activity. Why should we cater to those who haven't made it? People are only saying we should be more like them because their system has produced the best.
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Foreign pros: "dey derk er jerbs!!"
Korean pros: "lol u mad brahs?" or "하하는 화를 형제입니다?"
google translate
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On April 11 2012 00:22 DamageControL wrote:
edit: @murkk, doubtless there are people who have wasted time. That is true in every competitive activity. Why should we cater to those who haven't made it?
WHo says anything about catering? I love to watch the Koreans play. However, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to be like them.
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Internet wipes out the borders of nationality and lets us communicate across the world. E-sports exists to me in a world without borders, it should be above petty discussions on nationality. Embrace the possibility of communication, the beginning steps towards a unified mankind; wipe out that that separates us, because we are all brothers and explorers building a new world!
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Foreigners like to support foreigners.
We have come to a state where people from USA can feel connected to a player from Sweden or France. This is pretty funny. But why have it come down to this? How come a Korean player can't be loved as much as a Ukrainian?
I would say it is because of the language barrier. Koreans tend to have worse English than most foreigners since they don't get exposed to the western culture as much. People like to have an English speaking player win a tourney and hear them say what they feel from their own mouths. Translators are great but it just isn't the same feeling when the message is conveyed through a third party. As JOJOsc2news said about marketing, we need to market the Koreans more. These foreign teams who have acquired Korean progamers should encourage them to stream more, speak more English and be more involved with the fans. Also making a lot of HYPE videos are good, especially by fans who support the players. If we look at MarineKingPrime, he has almost the whole reddit fanbase behind him which is huge.
So to ban Koreans only would be a stupid thing to do. The Korea vs the world state of SC2 isn't good. Exclusively kicking out these players who work hard and live in a very harsh environment, i.e 12 people living in one flat, is very unfair. You guys are judging a person because of where he is born.
If we had a tournament with a "3 person maximum from each country" requirement and only SaSe, Naniwa and MorroW were allowed to participate I would have been FURIOUS. Why no ThorZaIN, HayprO, Bischu, SjoW? Oh yeah, because apparently Swedish players are too good. Does that sound fair? Of course not, but to some people Koreans are the exception and to me these people are hypocrites.
![[image loading]](http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45815000/jpg/_45815682_koreamourner.jpg)
Embrace the world of Starcraft 2 and stop making restrictions. You want the game to evolve, you want players to improve, why the hell do you want to isolate the best players in the world from competing with your favourite player?
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I am very concerned that the skill-gap seems to be widening. With the exception of Stephano there is not a single player in the foreign scene able to challenge the Korean players with any kind of consistency. Even IdrA's ability to produce a brilliant series here and there seems to have vanished. Huk and Naniwa are also great foreign players, but by now they are more a product of the Korean scene than the foreign scene. That distinction is important because, perhaps in the future the foreign scene will fall behind so far that sending any of its products to train in Korea is going to be meaningless. With Stephano likely to retire for good in September, I hope more foreigners are going to develop an ability to compete.
Though I understand that some people are just interested in seeing the best compete, regardless of where they are from, many more people will not be as interested in Starcraft 2 if it is going to turn into a mostly Korean affair. If this happens I fear the global interest in the game will decline quite rapidly, this is bad news not just for the foreign scene, but can potentially kill the Korean scene aswell. I do not know the numbers, but I do believe GOM depends heavily on revenue generated by international viewership. Perhaps the involvement of Kespa will be able to awaken more domestic interest in the game in the future, but right now I feel it is foreign viewership that fuels the pro competition in Korea.
So, no, it is not racist to be happier when a foreigner wins than when a Korean wins, it is good for the scene as a whole, Koreans included. I cheer for foreigners to win, not because I identify more strongly with Koreans than, for example a Frenchman, but because I know that the success of foreign players is pivotal to the existence of global Starcraft.
That said,restricting the numbers of Koreans in foreign events is not going to solve anything in the long-term, if this ever happens it means that the scene is dying already. It would be nothing more than an ultimately futile attempt to keep the foreign interest alive artificially. I hope it is never deemed necessary.
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878 Posts
Man...What will happen when KESPA takes over and a flood of S-Class BW progamers and also young up and comers i.e. courage winners switch over to SC2?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://tgn.tv/assets/images/down-arrow-64y.png){kind=icon}
