EPT[Q] Importance of upgrades? - Page 2
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
that means that at +3 you get 70+15 = 85 damage, which isn't that much compared to marines gaining a +50% bonus (6+3=9, 3 is 50% of 6  )I guess why plasma shields upgrades are skipped is because they matter the least, since everything does FULL damage to shields anyway However I digress, most good players forget to upgrade shields even in lategame when resources are available(in PvT, in PvZ and PvP they're upgraded more often). I think shields SHOULD be upgraded because even if they're down to 0, they quickly regenerate and that 1 extra shield point will prevent 4 damage points actually, and this may be vital in an mined-out map micro struggle (maybe less against Terran, but still ! ) | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On February 04 2009 20:46 quirinus wrote: +3 attack allows goons to kill the mines in just one hit, not many know that, but it's a very good upgrade not true goon has explosive damage type (half damage on small units) even if it has 26 or 29 damage (i don't know if it gets +2 or +3 damage per upgrade), the half of that is 13 or 14.5 so it can't kill a mine with 20 HP... Where did you hear this info ~~ though zealots can kill a mine with one hit after two upgrades. | ||
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noname_
466 Posts
On February 04 2009 22:24 freelander wrote: not true goon has explosive damage type (half damage on small units) even if it has 26 or 29 damage (i don't know if it gets +2 or +3 damage per upgrade), the half of that is 13 or 14.5 so it can't kill a mine with 20 HP... Where did you hear this info ~~ though zealots can kill a mine with one hit after two upgrades. Dragoons have 2 dmg/up. The zealots do two hits. So (8+3)+(8+3). They can do one hit damage, if they get killed while they attack (8+x). Even with 2 wpn upgrade zealots can kill mines. A 3 level carapace zergling need 3 shots from cannon to die. 35-(20-3)=18 18+1-(20-3)=2 2-(20-3)=dead zergling | ||
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Choros
Australia530 Posts
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noname_
466 Posts
On February 04 2009 23:50 Choros wrote: Shield affects regeneration thus it is upgraded last by pro protoss players. I don`t think that could be true. | ||
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MuR)Ernu
Finland768 Posts
By far the most useful upgrade for the Protoss, the Plasma Shield upgrade will add to the shield maximum for all units and buildings. Combined with Armor upgrades, you can noticeably increase the lifespan of your units. As such, the Plasma Shield Upgrade should always be researched as early as possible. That is from starcraft compendium. I think its bullshit. XD Edit: I tested it. It reduces damage by 1 per upgrade i think. It also works on buildings. So it might give those few secs for your buildings vs mass ling and stuff. Also pretty neat for archons. And goons will take even less damage from vultures too. Its good vs anything with low damage really. I'd really advise you to upgrade it in PvZ and maybe pvt if you have the time and resources =P And in pvp it might give your units that 1 extra hit so its pretty nice. | ||
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
tvz: +1 marines will really help vs mutalisks because they have such low health. tvz: +1 armor, 3 shots to kill marines with lurkers, as opposed to 2. if you stim the meds will heal some of your marines, so some of them can still take 3 shots. tvt: +2 attack lets you 2 shot tanks in siege mode, as opposed to 3 tvt: armor isnt that important, ill usually get it though at like +2 attack tvp: a lot of flash style tvp revolves around upgrades and timing your push on 2-1, 3-2, or 3-3. upgrades help terran a lot in this matchup. | ||
Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
PvT: P - Attack is very important, armor is pretty important, shields are not important. T - Attack is very important, armor is very important (until 2). PvZ: P - Attack is crucial, armor is very important, shields are less important. Z - Melee attack is important, armor is crucial, ranged attack is less important (depending on unit composition). TvT: I have no idea. I'd imagine Attack is very important and armor is not important. TvZ: T - Attack is crucial, armor is crucial. Z - Melee attack is very important, carapace is crucial, ranged attack is not important. ZvZ: Flying carapace is important (depend on play style). | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On February 05 2009 01:30 Chill wrote: PvP: Attack is very important, armor less important, shields are not important. PvT: P - Attack is very important, armor is pretty important, shields are not important. T - Attack is very important, armor is very important (until 2). PvZ: P - Attack is crucial, armor is very important, shields are less important. Z - Melee attack is important, armor is crucial, ranged attack is less important (depending on unit composition). TvT: I have no idea. I'd imagine Attack is very important and armor is not important. TvZ: T - Attack is crucial, armor is crucial. Z - Melee attack is very important, carapace is crucial, ranged attack is not important. ZvZ: Flying carapace is important (depend on play style). in TvT Armor can be important but you can put it all into attack and be fine i guess. Tanks have 85 damage so armor doesnt really matter at all when they attack | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 05 2009 01:30 Chill wrote: PvZ: P - Attack is crucial, armor is very important, shields are less important. I don't think shields are less important at all. The majority of damage that a zerg army deals comes from zerglings. Having 3 shield will reduce the damage of a fully upgraded crackling by 37.5%. I think it's pretty significant. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
On February 05 2009 01:37 T.O.P. wrote: I don't think shields are less important at all. The majority of damage that a zerg army deals comes from zerglings. Having 3 shield will reduce the damage of a fully upgraded crackling by 37.5%. I think it's pretty significant. Shields take full damage from everything, meaning Hydralisks deal 100% to Zealots' shields and 50% to armor. You're right, late game shields are nice, but much less important than the other upgrades. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I used Reavers as a main example considering after a fights over and a protoss loses the bulk of their army, the remaining units are usually spellcasters/reavers for some reason. At least in my games :D and its obviously beneficial to have to spend less money replenishing your gas heavy spellcasters. Most of that was obvious I think :D Just my thoughts as a Zerg adn thinking of what makes lategame ZvP hard for me, when I am scrambling around with my ragtag groups of ultra/ling. I find it annoying when he also has very high upgrades. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
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KwarK
United States44049 Posts
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
On February 05 2009 01:30 Chill wrote: PvP: Attack is very important, armor less important, shields are not important. PvT: P - Attack is very important, armor is pretty important, shields are not important. T - Attack is very important, armor is very important (until 2). PvZ: P - Attack is crucial, armor is very important, shields are less important. Z - Melee attack is important, armor is crucial, ranged attack is less important (depending on unit composition). TvT: I have no idea. I'd imagine Attack is very important and armor is not important. TvZ: T - Attack is crucial, armor is crucial. Z - Melee attack is very important, carapace is crucial, ranged attack is not important. ZvZ: Flying carapace is important (depend on play style). Why is ranged attack for ZvT not that important (since it takes out marines in 2 hits)? I know carapace is a lot more important, as well as melee, but 2 hits instead of 3 is a pretty big deal no? I'v been thinking about this a fair bit lately, and it is making me want to just go 3 evo all upgrades. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 05 2009 05:49 Resonance wrote: Why is ranged attack for ZvT not that important (since it takes out marines in 2 hits)? I know carapace is a lot more important, as well as melee, but 2 hits instead of 3 is a pretty big deal no? I'v been thinking about this a fair bit lately, and it is making me want to just go 3 evo all upgrades. Marines stim anyway, and that often negates the 3-hit kill thing, and unless you're planning on going hydralurk the gas is better spent on getting ultralisks. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
On February 04 2009 23:50 Choros wrote: It was Tasteless who said during a commentary fairly recently that + Shield affects regeneration thus it is upgraded last by pro protoss players. Given that shields recharge based on points and not percentages, I can't fathom how this could be true. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 05 2009 06:07 koreasilver wrote: Marines stim anyway, and that often negates the 3-hit kill thing, and unless you're planning on going hydralurk the gas is better spent on getting ultralisks. Heard of medics? They heal damn fast. On February 05 2009 04:58 Kwark wrote: You literally need to be 200/200 to justify shields in non PvZ. Yes, it's a difference. About 4% less damage from goons, 10% less from zealots, 1% less from reavers, 0% less from storms, 2.5% less from archons. But those numbers aren't great. You won't notice the lack of them. True, it's only a little useful in PvZ, not that good in PvP and PvT, what ???? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Even if you do get the upgrades, a lot of Terran bio users micro so well nowadays that they will disengage before your lurkers can even touch the marines unless you flank them. If you do flank them, well then the number of lurker spines will kill the marines at once regardless of upgrades anyway. | ||
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