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KT vs OZ : Flash vs JD - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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krzych113
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United Kingdom547 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 00:57:10
May 07 2011 00:56 GMT
#21
I got shivers after watching this game, for me Jaedong is just tremendous
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
May 07 2011 01:09 GMT
#22
Was definitely over regardless of irradiate. Way too much stimming and lings on the way. An irradiate isn't going to kill or damage enough of the muta's to hold it back, it wasn't like it was close after. It wasn't close at all.

Remember that when defending Flash would be targeting the top muta, so aside from turret damage the other muta's in the stack would have reasonably good health. There was no way they suffered enough extra damage from the small period of harass that they would be weak enough to retreat after irradiate.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
May 07 2011 02:04 GMT
#23
Anyone remember game one from the Korean air osl finals S2?
Jaedong was on the ragged edge on his defense of his third, and then the defiler came out, without energy and consume. Jaedong lost.
Same thing happened here, considering he may as well have not researched irridate.
The stim fail was kind of suicide in it's own right/
☺
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
May 07 2011 03:44 GMT
#24
Just watched the vod. It was over even if the irradiate hit a full health muta. Just a moment after the irradiate, the mutas destroyed the remaining marines and then the zerglings went in.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
tabula rasa
Profile Joined December 2010
360 Posts
May 07 2011 08:41 GMT
#25
On May 07 2011 11:04 Release wrote:
Anyone remember game one from the Korean air osl finals S2?
Jaedong was on the ragged edge on his defense of his third, and then the defiler came out, without energy and consume. Jaedong lost.
Same thing happened here, considering he may as well have not researched irridate.
The stim fail was kind of suicide in it's own right/

Jaedong had consume. The defiler died immediately after it consumed a unit.
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
May 07 2011 16:44 GMT
#26
Just watched the game,
I think Flash would have died regardless of how well that irradiate came off, the build is quite interesting in its own way though, hopefully we'll see it used more effectively.
Considering the lings issue, I wonder if Flash might incorporate building 1vulture before add-on rather than tank to deal with them.
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
May 08 2011 02:29 GMT
#27
On May 08 2011 01:44 Armathai wrote:
Just watched the game,
I think Flash would have died regardless of how well that irradiate came off, the build is quite interesting in its own way though, hopefully we'll see it used more effectively.
Considering the lings issue, I wonder if Flash might incorporate building 1vulture before add-on rather than tank to deal with them.

There's many games where Terran go Science Vessel rush to reasonable success. Nothing too innovative that we missed out on here, just a standard loss. I think playing against the legend killer is getting to Flash and he is making mistakes he wouldn't normally make. All a part of Jaedong's power, even if he has a lower winrate than Flash vs normal players, he is still capable of embarrassing God. I always like how much romance it adds to the game when players fulfill their nicknames.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
SoKHo
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)1081 Posts
May 08 2011 09:22 GMT
#28
Flash's build is to fragile. Relies too much on luck in my opinion.
"If you don't understand my silence, you won't understand my words"|| Big Nal_rA fan boy!! Nal_rA, Bisu, Huk, MC, Hero fighting! SKT1---->
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
May 08 2011 22:48 GMT
#29
Flash lost because of his overstim and his unlucky irradiate.

To me, he was in a solid position as long as he placed maybe one marine in that bunker (which was empty wtf?) and hadn't stimmed so readily.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Pengtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
207 Posts
May 08 2011 23:35 GMT
#30
On May 07 2011 06:11 11cc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2011 05:29 WWJDD wrote:
This is the new Power Outage.


Nah. This is nothing compared to power outage. This is more like the game where jaedong lost pathetically after forgetting to research consume, but would've surely won easily otherwise.


Are you applying the consume failure=JD's downfall to Flash in this game? ...because flash would likely still have lost even if he had gotten the irradiate off on a full-health muta afaik
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2267 Posts
May 08 2011 23:55 GMT
#31
On May 07 2011 09:56 krzych113 wrote:
I got shivers after watching this game, for me Jaedong is just tremendous

StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 09 2011 11:44 GMT
#32
There was no luck involved in this game.
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
May 09 2011 12:21 GMT
#33
I've been trying out this build on ladder.

I'm not any good (only C-/C max), but the build has a lot of potential at these levels. Zergs just don't expect science vessels this fast, and it's relatively safe...even against lings, granted you place bunkers well and all that.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
May 09 2011 18:18 GMT
#34
On May 07 2011 09:56 krzych113 wrote:
I got shivers after watching this game, for me Jaedong is just tremendous


That's what she said...

Anyways, watching JD (especially triumphing over Flash) is instantaneously a highlight of my day.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Nakata
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria67 Posts
May 09 2011 22:48 GMT
#35
I was shocked that Flash died to the mutas. But Jaedong plays beastly the recent games.
Terran is IMBA!!!
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 10 2011 09:13 GMT
#36
just rewatched the game. Its 100% flash already lost. amazing how good jaedong were at forcing stims and how antsy flash was. 2 marines died even when he was shooting an SCV.

Pretty crazy
Jaedong :3
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
May 13 2011 04:52 GMT
#37
Just a little note, after a little testing, this is what I have at the moment for a tentative build that Flash used:


9 supply
11 rax
16 cc
18 supply
18 refinery
22 supply
25 factory (transfer)
31 academy
32 starport (machine shop on factory)
36 supply
36 refinery
38 stim/comsats/science facility
40 ebay/2nd rax
44 marine range + science vessel
50 irradiate
@100 gas tank

If people want to try it out go ahead. I've had pretty good success with the Zergs as I've moved up to C- level.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
0mgVitaminE
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1278 Posts
May 13 2011 05:41 GMT
#38
On May 09 2011 21:21 Zergneedsfood wrote:
I've been trying out this build on ladder.

I'm not any good (only C-/C max), but the build has a lot of potential at these levels. Zergs just don't expect science vessels this fast, and it's relatively safe...even against lings, granted you place bunkers well and all that.

I'm gonna have my friends play this build against me sometime soon. Seems strong and like you said relatively safe. Flash's irradiate was unlucky, but a few more turrets and it looks like you would be able to defend against quite a bit, more than people are giving it credit for.
Hi there. I'm in a cave, how bout you?
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
May 13 2011 05:47 GMT
#39
On May 13 2011 14:41 0mgVitaminE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2011 21:21 Zergneedsfood wrote:
I've been trying out this build on ladder.

I'm not any good (only C-/C max), but the build has a lot of potential at these levels. Zergs just don't expect science vessels this fast, and it's relatively safe...even against lings, granted you place bunkers well and all that.

I'm gonna have my friends play this build against me sometime soon. Seems strong and like you said relatively safe. Flash's irradiate was unlucky, but a few more turrets and it looks like you would be able to defend against quite a bit, more than people are giving it credit for.


People forget not everyone has the muta micro of JAEDONG
DarkSaieden
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
South Africa254 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 09:01:18
May 13 2011 06:03 GMT
#40
i think in general, JD is too good for this build.. flash just had faaaarrr to few mm/turrets to deal with aggression from JD, but more impotantly, he had far too small an army to exert map control. if the irr was a win, flash would'v had a bit of time to regroup, but jd could easily get 2 groups of lings and scourge in no time. if flash tried to move out, he would scourge those vessels so bad it wouldn't even be funny.. with less than 2 groups of mm, there's no way, imo, he'd really be able to stop the ling sac and with vessels down, he's back to square one with JDs 4th wasily takable.

another point about the 6 stims.. with so few mm/turrets, flash has no choice but to stim every time because he didn't have enough defence to cover his base. with the build that flash went, its easy to se the heavy gas nature, but tally up the min of fac+port+tower+sci fac+irr research+vessel.. thats all minerals that would be pumped into rax and mm, ie defence against muta and map control, and a tvz w/out, map control mid game is pretty futile against the best zvt in the world..

edit: tbh, imo this is exacty what day9 means when he talks about "counter builds"; they just dont stand up against solid play.
a wc3->bw lesson comes to mind: there are no heroes in bw.
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