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Mocsha soooo scummy!!!
Clear evidence of lying and trolling up the thread since his first post:
On February 05 2013 10:03 Mocsta wrote:
Im pretty excited for the even day dynamics.
The risk/reward of putting 3 town for nomination, reminds me of the whole bodyguard speculation.
It can even go as wild as putting in 3 scum; to bus one and clear the other 2.
Either way, wont talk about this anymore till game starts.
On February 06 2013 11:02 Mocsta wrote:
Hey all
the usual stuff
Im +8 GMT
&
nominating myself for mayor
o.0
On February 06 2013 11:04 Mocsta wrote:ooo.. nominations referred to Even Days. *sigh* VE: Plan is still in action 
Pretends to not know about the game when he already did speculate about the nomination mechanic... wtf is this?
That coupled with oats' meta read doesn't make it look too good for you mochsta
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.... prplhz you look like the most sensible out of this lot so far.
I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him?
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Sloosh, can you comment on the Big things that are happening in the thread?
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Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?"
Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats?
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United States22154 Posts
Mr. Cheesecake replaces Keirathi
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Yea. I think it should stop because it is fueled primarily by emotions and egos and the misunderstanding that just because a person thinks differently of an issue doesn't make them scum. You and Mocsta have 7 pages of filter between you guys, most of it just jabbing at each other.
If you think he is scum, then lay it out clearly and precisely why. Don't needle him. Don't call him names. If you think he is calling you names a la scum, incorporate that into your case. Because not only does your interaction make the thread harder to read, it allows scum to lurk. Yes - that's right. Lurking is pretty easy when townies are ripping at each other's throats (Right now I read you both on the town side) and like prplhz said, you need to step back and refocus, because the method you are taking isn't the most helpful.
So I instead choose to focus on someone like phagga, on whom no one has commented on.
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On February 07 2013 01:41 phagga wrote:
Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?"
Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats?
I'm going to wait on what prplhz thinks before clarifying it to the subject we are talking about.
What do you think about Djodref?
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11589 Posts
I see what Sloosh is saying about Phagga, and I agree on some level that his entrance to the thread has been weak, and relatively quiet so far. There are some things that make me doubt his scumminess, however, so what I need from him is some more meaningful contribution on things that aren't setup. That also goes for VE, who was here early spouting setup info, and then dropped off.
My strongest mafia read is Mocsta. This game has begun exactly the same way as NMM XXXV where Oats was town and Mocsta the mafia. I think getting a lynch rolling on him is an excellent idea. Any doubters need to go read the game I mentioned and see the similarities, and then read his LIX filter to see the difference between this game and his more amicable town game.
Palmar needs to not lynch prplhz. I sense the troll with Palmar on this one, so hopefully he doesn't act the same way he did in LVIII and derail day 1. Prplhz is looking decently townie, I will not jump on lynching him any time soon.
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11589 Posts
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11589 Posts
Anyone not willing to lynch Mocsta after reading his filter in those two games needs to provide a better reason than his "activity", please. It's quite clear to me that he's mafia.
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Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?
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On February 07 2013 01:59 yamato77 wrote:
I see what Sloosh is saying about Phagga, and I agree on some level that his entrance to the thread has been weak, and relatively quiet so far. There are some things that make me doubt his scumminess, however, so what I need from him is some more meaningful contribution on things that aren't setup. That also goes for VE, who was here early spouting setup info, and then dropped off.
My strongest mafia read is Mocsta. This game has begun exactly the same way as NMM XXXV where Oats was town and Mocsta the mafia. I think getting a lynch rolling on him is an excellent idea. Any doubters need to go read the game I mentioned and see the similarities, and then read his LIX filter to see the difference between this game and his more amicable town game.
Palmar needs to not lynch prplhz. I sense the troll with Palmar on this one, so hopefully he doesn't act the same way he did in LVIII and derail day 1. Prplhz is looking decently townie, I will not jump on lynching him any time soon.
The onus is on you to show that he is mafia, not on us to show that he is town. If it is as clear as you indicate, I'm sure it won't be hard to make a case compare and contrasting his play this game to the ones that you cite.
Additionally, please expound on the things that make you doubt his scumminess. I've already asked him for a specific contribution, so as we wait you can tell me what sticks out. It helps us get a clearer read on him, but also helps me get a clearer read on you (thinking process etc.)
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11589 Posts
I'll make my case on Mocsta, then.
I won't be giving out my town tells, however.
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11589 Posts
QUOTE]On January 20 2013 22:18 Mocsta wrote:
On January 20 2013 22:11 Djodref wrote:
@ Mocsta
Sorry, I didn't see your answer.
Do you really think yamato is going to be elected today ? I personally don't think so becauset yamato didn't "officially" campaign, and he is not known to have good reads so...
If not, I'm curious to know what raised your attention in his posts.
It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22.
I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad.
Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate.
Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently.
[/QUOTE]
This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia.
On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast.
... @Sn0_ManI appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above.
This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here?
On February 06 2013 15:49 Mocsta wrote:
Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph.
You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else.
I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia.
I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town,
I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker
I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier.
He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play.
On January 12 2013 22:38 Mocsta wrote:
Well im going to bed anyways.. will check in the thread in the morning, and will then be away for at least 6 hrs. *sigh*
Please generate some discussions USA shift ! There are still plenty of players who have not even posted yet.
zebezt, trust me.. I know the feeling to want some discussion happening, but, as town we don't want to create spam. Unfortunately now its just a waiting game for some activity.
[Unless 24hrs has expired.. thats my personal deadline for lurker calling]
On February 06 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Oats,
Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions.
If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems.
And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel.
Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose?
Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not.
Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread.
Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one.
On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote:
Wow. Thats it over the night shift.
Oats u sound like sno_man.
perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion.
I think u should read what i posted to him.
My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation.
@oatsmaster
Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations
On February 06 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote:
VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released.
My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult.
I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices.
I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know.
Again, two similar posts in rationale from NMM XXXV and this game. In both posts, he wants to paint what he's doing as "pro-town" by, again, promoting a positive discussion-based atmosphere. He's concerned with how people perceive what he's doing, and wants to control the discussion on the matter. It's mafia mentality, plenty of people, Marv included, attempt to play "pro-town" when mafia. Mcosta, when mafia, is obsessed with the concept, just like he is in this game.
I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town.
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I'm going to play devil's advocate here. At the point in the game where Mocsta was most active, over half of the people who have checked in now had not at the time. Does that, in your mind, explain the "lack of scumhunting" you're seeing here yamato?
I want to kill Palmar for being a useless...thing...that is useless...
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Also where the piss is our replacement? Keir was on a short list of people who haven't contributed fuck all and now he's replaced out...I figured we'd have gotten something from his replacement by now. Sup Cheese?
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Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend.
##Vote: Palmar
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I don't see why town wouldn't want to look town, especially when people are throwing mud on them. Being concerned about how you are perceived is alignment null because no one wants to get lynched, town or mafia. Whilst I agree that an unnatural concern for perception is a tell, I don't think what he did was unnatural, as it was in direct defense / response to people calling him out.
What's most concerning for me, is that for you, Phagga should be just as guilty of these tells:
Focus on lurkers:
On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote:
He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one.
On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'
Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 17:13 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'
Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread. I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available.
And calling out bad play rather than scum play:
On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote:
He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play.
On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Show nested quote +Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level.
Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you.
So it is a huge deal that you, have some things that make you doubt his scumminess when you are oh so certain that Mocsta is mafia. I think you are lying and I want you to put your money where your mouth is. What about Phagga makes you doubt his scumminess?
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VE let's work with what we got instead of focusing on what we don't. I'd appreciate thoughts on yamato and to a lesser degree Phagga.
Also if you could start consolidating your posts that would be great - a huge advantage in this setup is that scum have one less avenue to bury good posts / posts on the right track (by NK the dude). Take away spamming and they have even less to work with, and are forced to confront tough issues / take stances etc.
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EPT
