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Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 1387

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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly.
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 05:18:36
February 22 2013 05:16 GMT
#27721
[QUOTE]On February 22 2013 12:16 jamesr12 wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 22 2013 12:08 upperbound wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 22 2013 09:58 jamesr12 wrote:
What would be a ball park cost to build something where I could run starcraft 2 smoothly on like mid or high graphics. I have [url=http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-LC19SB25U-19-Inch-720p-HDTV/dp/B0018KSPDK]http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-LC19SB25U-19-Inch-720p-HDTV/dp/B0018KSPDK[/url] I could use as a monitor maybe. I know nothing about computers could I even build one? Any recomendations for one I could just go buy?[/QUOTE]

+ Show Spoiler +
What else are you using the computer for? I'd recommend looking at the questions in the OP and filling them in. If you have monitor/keyboard/mouse/OS, then you could build a system that could run lategame SC2 at about 20 fps for about $450-500. If you want 30+ fps, you'd have to add about $100. If you want to get a newer 1920x1080 monitor and still run high, probably another $50-$100+monitor cost above that. If you want a solid state drive and a regular hard drive build, add another $100 bucks.


What is your budget?

800 max but less is better

What is your resolution?

720p ? see link (I dont know shit)

What are you using it for?

starcraft 2 and nothing else even remotely intensive surfing the internet ect.

What is your upgrade cycle?

uhhh rare

When do you plan on building it?

ASAP

Do you plan on overclocking?

Don't know what this means so no

Do you need an Operating System?

Nope

Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?

uhhh no?

Where are you buying your parts from?

Online USA
[/QUOTE]

You can save considerable money here by dropping to an i3-3225 & cutting GPU if you want to play on only low graphics settings, not getting an SSD, not getting a dvd-burner. Some other little changes, I'm sure. The build below is a little more luxury based - an i5 for a bit better late-game FPS performance, a 7750 to allow good graphics settings.

Core components: $363
i5-3350p
MSI B75ma-e33
2x4gb RAM
Sapphire 7750
+ Show Spoiler +

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75435&vpn=BX80637I53350P&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1302
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74886&vpn=B75MA-E33&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar&promoid=1387
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=44267&vpn=F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL&manufacture=G.Skill
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102985


Supporting components: $276
Bit Fenix Outlaw
XFX Core 450w
Seagate 1.5tb HDD
(optional) Samsung 840 120gb SSD
(optional) DVD-burner
+ Show Spoiler +

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63255&vpn=BFC-OLW-100-KKN1-RP&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1302
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63238&vpn=P1450SX2B9&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1257
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=70854&vpn=ST1500DM003&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1302
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=77210&vpn=MZ-7TD120BW&manufacture=Samsung Memory & Storage&promoid=1302
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=49597&vpn=DRW-24B1ST Bulk&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1302


Total: $639. This is pretty near optimal for what you're trying to do.

But if you really want to drop the cost, you can cut the CPU, GPU, SSD, DVD-burner (install OS from USB), and play SC2 only on lowest graphics settings. Replace the CPU & GPU with this processor & its integrated graphics.
i3-3225 ($135)
[url=http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75430&vpn=BX80637I33225&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1302]http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75430&vpn=BX80637I33225&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1302[/url]

New total w/i3-3225, no GPU, no SSD, no DVD-player: $396
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
February 22 2013 05:24 GMT
#27722
Is there an issue if the padding foam (between the backplate and mobo) has contact on the side of the foam with the little bits that stick out the back of the motherboard?

[image loading]
[image loading]
twitch.tv/cratonz
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 06:56:43
February 22 2013 05:38 GMT
#27723
On February 22 2013 09:12 DaHui2 wrote:
Requesting a system build.
What is your budget?
$1200 usd
What is your resolution? 1600x900
What are you using it for? Gaming (Battlefield 3, Starcraft 2, Crysis 3) and running AutoCAD
What is your upgrade cycle? 2-3 Years.
When do you plan on building it? Within the next 2 weeks.
Do you plan on overclocking? Yes.
Do you need an Operating System? Yes
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No
Where are you buying your parts from? I will buy from online stores and the Fry's Electronics if necessary


CPU -- i5-3570k $230 (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504 (Honestly I have no idea whether AutoCAD performs markedly differently on a 3770k, as I've never built an AutoCAD machine and can't find CPU benches, but it's $50 more right now so possible if you feel strongly...)
Mobo -- Asus P8-Z77-V LE $125 (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131823 (w/ free 1x8GB Corsair Vengeance (Black))
GPU -- Sapphire Radeon HD7950 $290 AR (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202026 (there are slightly different I/O configurations for $10 and $20 more; you can check and see if they matter to you. I picked this because you wanted Crysis 3 anyway, so this is good value for you. However, there's also this PNY GTX 670 for $310 AR, which is quite a good deal if you want the 3 games that come with it instead here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133452&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-14133452-L010C)
SSD -- Samsung 840 120GB $100 (Fry's) http://www.frys.com/product/7395054?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (there are also 830s left in some stores which are basically the same as the non-pro 840, for $10 less if yours has one)
HDD -- Seagate Barricuda 7200 RPM 1.5TB $70 (NCIX.US) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=70854&vpn=ST1500DM003&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1302
Heatsink -- Xigmatek Dark Knight II $35 (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029
PSU -- Rosewill Capstone 450W $65 (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066
Case -- Corsair 200R $50 AR http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139018&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_sp=&AID=10440897&PID=3332167&SID=u00000687
OS -- Microsoft Windows 8, $99.99 basically anywhere

Total (Before Shipping) $1065 with 7950; $1085 with 670

Add in: Asus VS239H-P 23" IPS $170 (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236288&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-LCDMonitors-_-24236288-L0D

Total: $1235 or $1255 (same caveat as above).

I picked this build because you (sort of, until I realized you need OS) have the budget to upgrade to a solid IPS 1080p monitor and I think it will make a big difference in your gaming and designing experience. If you want to stay with the 1600x900 monitor, scrap the monitor and get a 7850 and beast any game at that resolution while saving $250+.

EDIT: Oh ****, you need an OS. Windows 7/8 are basically uniformly $100 anywhere, so my build is about $40 over. Though, of course, it does include an overkill GPU for your current system and a new monitor, so without that it's over $200 underbudget at under $1000.
DaHui2
Profile Joined September 2012
United States25 Posts
February 22 2013 06:13 GMT
#27724
Alright, Thanks for the help.
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
February 22 2013 06:59 GMT
#27725
I've assembled an upgrade pack, just want to double check here before I order.

  • Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor
  • XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5
  • Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU
  • MSI Z77A-GD55, Socket-1155

- Expecting 1080p resolutions, used mostly for gaming (including some new releases + streaming what I play using OBS).
- My upgrade cycle is every 3 years or so.
- Plan on building it yesterday, because fuck my netbook, I want my desktop back
- No plans to SLI / Crossfire, but the option is there


From reading recommendations in this thread and elsewhere, I went with the i5-3570K, the Z77 motherboard, and the Hyper 212 with the intent to overclock the 3.4GHz processor to 4.0GHz or above. For general gaming, this should give me better performance for the price, as the i7 is only worthwhile if you're doing a lot of video editing and such.

The HD 7870 2GB seems to be an extremely solid card for the price. While I play and stream at comparatively low resolutions, this will give me the opportunity to upgrade to 1080p. I have a solid cabinet with high air flow for cooling, and a 650W 12V V2.3, 80+ power supply, which should be sufficient.

Please correct any misconceptions I've made during this assembly, and let me know if there's anything else I need to be aware of when doing this build. Doing this research in 1024x600 on a netbook that loads webpages like my desktop loads Crysis has been a character-building experience.
TL+ Member
Rollin
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia1552 Posts
February 22 2013 07:20 GMT
#27726
On February 22 2013 15:59 Aylear wrote:
I've assembled an upgrade pack, just want to double check here before I order.

  • Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor
  • XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5
  • Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU
  • MSI Z77A-GD55, Socket-1155

- Expecting 1080p resolutions, used mostly for gaming (including some new releases + streaming what I play using OBS).
- My upgrade cycle is every 3 years or so.
- Plan on building it yesterday, because fuck my netbook, I want my desktop back
- No plans to SLI / Crossfire, but the option is there


From reading recommendations in this thread and elsewhere, I went with the i5-3570K, the Z77 motherboard, and the Hyper 212 with the intent to overclock the 3.4GHz processor to 4.0GHz or above. For general gaming, this should give me better performance for the price, as the i7 is only worthwhile if you're doing a lot of video editing and such.

The HD 7870 2GB seems to be an extremely solid card for the price. While I play and stream at comparatively low resolutions, this will give me the opportunity to upgrade to 1080p. I have a solid cabinet with high air flow for cooling, and a 650W 12V V2.3, 80+ power supply, which should be sufficient.

Please correct any misconceptions I've made during this assembly, and let me know if there's anything else I need to be aware of when doing this build. Doing this research in 1024x600 on a netbook that loads webpages like my desktop loads Crysis has been a character-building experience.

Not sure if the xfx 7870 has a broken cooling system or not, some of the 7950/7970's from xfx had issues before, particularly the "Double D" range. Should be ok though. Everything else is A-OK.

And I know the pain of a netbook, mine lasted less than 6 months before I bought an ultrabook to replace it, primarily because of the abysmal resolution.
Throw off those chains of reason, and your prison disappears. | Check your posting frequency timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/mytlnet/post_activity_img.php
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 07:52:26
February 22 2013 07:38 GMT
#27727
On February 22 2013 16:20 Rollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 15:59 Aylear wrote:
I've assembled an upgrade pack, just want to double check here before I order.

  • Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor
  • XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5
  • Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU
  • MSI Z77A-GD55, Socket-1155

- Expecting 1080p resolutions, used mostly for gaming (including some new releases + streaming what I play using OBS).
- My upgrade cycle is every 3 years or so.
- Plan on building it yesterday, because fuck my netbook, I want my desktop back
- No plans to SLI / Crossfire, but the option is there


From reading recommendations in this thread and elsewhere, I went with the i5-3570K, the Z77 motherboard, and the Hyper 212 with the intent to overclock the 3.4GHz processor to 4.0GHz or above. For general gaming, this should give me better performance for the price, as the i7 is only worthwhile if you're doing a lot of video editing and such.

The HD 7870 2GB seems to be an extremely solid card for the price. While I play and stream at comparatively low resolutions, this will give me the opportunity to upgrade to 1080p. I have a solid cabinet with high air flow for cooling, and a 650W 12V V2.3, 80+ power supply, which should be sufficient.

Please correct any misconceptions I've made during this assembly, and let me know if there's anything else I need to be aware of when doing this build. Doing this research in 1024x600 on a netbook that loads webpages like my desktop loads Crysis has been a character-building experience.

Not sure if the xfx 7870 has a broken cooling system or not, some of the 7950/7970's from xfx had issues before, particularly the "Double D" range. Should be ok though. Everything else is A-OK.

And I know the pain of a netbook, mine lasted less than 6 months before I bought an ultrabook to replace it, primarily because of the abysmal resolution.


Hmm. That's disconcerting, because I went for this 7970 because of its comparatively low price. The specs were excellent, but I even saw some 7950s that were more expensive than this particular 7970, so now I'm a bit apprehensive.

There might be a 7970 that's not from XFX that's slightly more expensive, but would give me peace of mind. I guess I'll brave the waters of netbook-browsing and look into this a bit more.

Edit:

Found a PowerColor Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5, though it costs quite a bit more. Still, 1100MHz clock speed and 4.9GHz memory speed is pretty solid. Worth the peace of mind over the probably-not-but-possibly-broken XFX?
TL+ Member
Rollin
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia1552 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 07:51:40
February 22 2013 07:50 GMT
#27728
On February 22 2013 16:38 Aylear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 16:20 Rollin wrote:
On February 22 2013 15:59 Aylear wrote:
I've assembled an upgrade pack, just want to double check here before I order.

  • Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor
  • XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5
  • Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU
  • MSI Z77A-GD55, Socket-1155

- Expecting 1080p resolutions, used mostly for gaming (including some new releases + streaming what I play using OBS).
- My upgrade cycle is every 3 years or so.
- Plan on building it yesterday, because fuck my netbook, I want my desktop back
- No plans to SLI / Crossfire, but the option is there


From reading recommendations in this thread and elsewhere, I went with the i5-3570K, the Z77 motherboard, and the Hyper 212 with the intent to overclock the 3.4GHz processor to 4.0GHz or above. For general gaming, this should give me better performance for the price, as the i7 is only worthwhile if you're doing a lot of video editing and such.

The HD 7870 2GB seems to be an extremely solid card for the price. While I play and stream at comparatively low resolutions, this will give me the opportunity to upgrade to 1080p. I have a solid cabinet with high air flow for cooling, and a 650W 12V V2.3, 80+ power supply, which should be sufficient.

Please correct any misconceptions I've made during this assembly, and let me know if there's anything else I need to be aware of when doing this build. Doing this research in 1024x600 on a netbook that loads webpages like my desktop loads Crysis has been a character-building experience.

Not sure if the xfx 7870 has a broken cooling system or not, some of the 7950/7970's from xfx had issues before, particularly the "Double D" range. Should be ok though. Everything else is A-OK.

And I know the pain of a netbook, mine lasted less than 6 months before I bought an ultrabook to replace it, primarily because of the abysmal resolution.


Hmm. That's disconcerting, because I went for this 7970 because of its comparatively low price. The specs were excellent, but I even saw some 7950s that were more expensive than this particular 7970, so now I'm a bit apprehensive.

There might be a 7970 that's not from XFX that's slightly more expensive, but would give me peace of mind. I guess I'll brave the waters of netbook-browsing and look into this a bit more.

I highly doubt the issue plagues this particular model, as don't think the problems were a long time ago and limited to the 79xx series, I'd ask Medrea or someone else what they know about it. If it were me I'd probably just get it anyway, but I wouldn't get an xfx 79xx card without knowing the prior issues had been fixed.

The previous comment was more for completeness, and in the hope that someone else could comment on it that knows more than me.
Throw off those chains of reason, and your prison disappears. | Check your posting frequency timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/mytlnet/post_activity_img.php
RiSkysc2
Profile Joined September 2011
696 Posts
February 22 2013 08:18 GMT
#27729
Is there much point of upgrading from a i5 2500k to a i7 3770k or just wait for the next series of intel processors?
phar
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
February 22 2013 08:44 GMT
#27730
Depends on what you do with your computer.
Who after all is today speaking about the destruction of the Armenians?
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 09:36:50
February 22 2013 09:27 GMT
#27731
You wanna add hyperthreading? Go for it. If not, dont.

There used to be a lot of question in the overclocking community if it was worth it to get a 3770k over a 2600k, new vs new, for the same price. The added heat (as much as >20c at the same clock speeds) and hardly improved performance per clock (~7-8%?) meant that you could just run the 2600k like 300mhz faster and have it perform equally or better.

As it turns out, with a long time to play with things, Ivy's heat problem is not so bad and it is also much more tolerant of higher voltages (an advantage) and in general, not as bad of an overclocker as people thought. If you get really lucky on a chip, you can run it 5.2ghz 24/7. Most dont come close to that, but there's a slight lead for ivy bridge in terms of performance after overclocking - if it justifies the extra cost is another argument though - again, this is new vs new. People who literally do not have a CPU would pull up the question of if it's worth buying an ivybridge CPU or if the one you already have would be a better choice.

Stock vs stock, 2500k is 3.3ghz, 3770k is 3.5 with about an 8% performance per clock increase, so something like a 14% improvement in single threaded performance and 35-40% in multi-threaded.

You're talking about unlocked vs unlocked CPU's though, that gap will be brought closer with overclocking and if you dont have a higher end air cooler and a decent setup with case fans etc - the advantage just gets pushed further towards sandy bridge.

Nobody really knows what to expect from Haswell (releasing in the first days of june) but it's clocked the same as ivy bridge - i think it will be something like 10-25% performance improvements (over ivybridge), but likely to be the lower end of that

It will use a new socket and be the last intel CPU to use DDR3 RAM IIRC, so its a little tricky for upgrading into/out of - im not sure on the details if its revision (broadwell) in a year or whatever that uses DDR4 will need a whole new motherboard or anything like that, its all new to me

Haswell could have significantly better overclocking performance - ivy bridge overclocks great, better than sandy, more tolerant of even 1.55v for 24/7 overclocks whereas sandy users reported degradation at 1.4, better performance, its basically great, but just has a massive issue with running so hot. Most of them comes down to a manufacturing problem - Intel used some bad thermal interface material or whatever on the die instead of using fluxless solder (correct me if im wrong here anyone) so thermal performance is just really bad - there's a club on overclockers.net specifically dedicated to delidding CPU and applying a certain type of thermal paste (liquid ultra/pro or something) which consistently cuts temperatures by like 10-30 degrees celcius. With that mod, the CPU's are amazing overclockers, but its unknown if haswell will have the same problem, running a lot hotter than it should. Hopefully it wont, at the very least intel are aware of it
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
February 22 2013 10:05 GMT
#27732
On February 22 2013 16:38 Aylear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 16:20 Rollin wrote:
On February 22 2013 15:59 Aylear wrote:
I've assembled an upgrade pack, just want to double check here before I order.

  • Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor
  • XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5
  • Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU
  • MSI Z77A-GD55, Socket-1155

- Expecting 1080p resolutions, used mostly for gaming (including some new releases + streaming what I play using OBS).
- My upgrade cycle is every 3 years or so.
- Plan on building it yesterday, because fuck my netbook, I want my desktop back
- No plans to SLI / Crossfire, but the option is there


From reading recommendations in this thread and elsewhere, I went with the i5-3570K, the Z77 motherboard, and the Hyper 212 with the intent to overclock the 3.4GHz processor to 4.0GHz or above. For general gaming, this should give me better performance for the price, as the i7 is only worthwhile if you're doing a lot of video editing and such.

The HD 7870 2GB seems to be an extremely solid card for the price. While I play and stream at comparatively low resolutions, this will give me the opportunity to upgrade to 1080p. I have a solid cabinet with high air flow for cooling, and a 650W 12V V2.3, 80+ power supply, which should be sufficient.

Please correct any misconceptions I've made during this assembly, and let me know if there's anything else I need to be aware of when doing this build. Doing this research in 1024x600 on a netbook that loads webpages like my desktop loads Crysis has been a character-building experience.

Not sure if the xfx 7870 has a broken cooling system or not, some of the 7950/7970's from xfx had issues before, particularly the "Double D" range. Should be ok though. Everything else is A-OK.

And I know the pain of a netbook, mine lasted less than 6 months before I bought an ultrabook to replace it, primarily because of the abysmal resolution.


Hmm. That's disconcerting, because I went for this 7970 because of its comparatively low price. The specs were excellent, but I even saw some 7950s that were more expensive than this particular 7970, so now I'm a bit apprehensive.

There might be a 7970 that's not from XFX that's slightly more expensive, but would give me peace of mind. I guess I'll brave the waters of netbook-browsing and look into this a bit more.

Edit:

Found a PowerColor Radeon HD 7870 2GB GDDR5, though it costs quite a bit more. Still, 1100MHz clock speed and 4.9GHz memory speed is pretty solid. Worth the peace of mind over the probably-not-but-possibly-broken XFX?


XFX basically just has very bad quality control on its coolers. Some people get burned. Some people report their cards work fine. I don't know of any other manufacturer that has that problem. PowerColor should be fine.
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
February 22 2013 12:48 GMT
#27733
Thanks for the tips, everyone. I ordered the parts and I'm feeling confident about the purchase. Greatly appreciated.
TL+ Member
Ata
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada356 Posts
February 22 2013 13:46 GMT
#27734
Hello everyone,
Friend wants to distribute the wifi better for all the room-mates and I was telling him about the 3d party software for the router. is it dd-wrts?
And what do people usually do, limit each of the 4 peoples speed to 25% of the max dl/ul (30mbps/1mbps ) speed or something like 90% for each person to make sure that pings/responsiveness is good for all?
RiSkysc2
Profile Joined September 2011
696 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 13:49:04
February 22 2013 13:47 GMT
#27735
On February 22 2013 18:27 Cyro wrote:
You wanna add hyperthreading? Go for it. If not, dont.

There used to be a lot of question in the overclocking community if it was worth it to get a 3770k over a 2600k, new vs new, for the same price. The added heat (as much as >20c at the same clock speeds) and hardly improved performance per clock (~7-8%?) meant that you could just run the 2600k like 300mhz faster and have it perform equally or better.

As it turns out, with a long time to play with things, Ivy's heat problem is not so bad and it is also much more tolerant of higher voltages (an advantage) and in general, not as bad of an overclocker as people thought. If you get really lucky on a chip, you can run it 5.2ghz 24/7. Most dont come close to that, but there's a slight lead for ivy bridge in terms of performance after overclocking - if it justifies the extra cost is another argument though - again, this is new vs new. People who literally do not have a CPU would pull up the question of if it's worth buying an ivybridge CPU or if the one you already have would be a better choice.

Stock vs stock, 2500k is 3.3ghz, 3770k is 3.5 with about an 8% performance per clock increase, so something like a 14% improvement in single threaded performance and 35-40% in multi-threaded.

You're talking about unlocked vs unlocked CPU's though, that gap will be brought closer with overclocking and if you dont have a higher end air cooler and a decent setup with case fans etc - the advantage just gets pushed further towards sandy bridge.

Nobody really knows what to expect from Haswell (releasing in the first days of june) but it's clocked the same as ivy bridge - i think it will be something like 10-25% performance improvements (over ivybridge), but likely to be the lower end of that

It will use a new socket and be the last intel CPU to use DDR3 RAM IIRC, so its a little tricky for upgrading into/out of - im not sure on the details if its revision (broadwell) in a year or whatever that uses DDR4 will need a whole new motherboard or anything like that, its all new to me

Haswell could have significantly better overclocking performance - ivy bridge overclocks great, better than sandy, more tolerant of even 1.55v for 24/7 overclocks whereas sandy users reported degradation at 1.4, better performance, its basically great, but just has a massive issue with running so hot. Most of them comes down to a manufacturing problem - Intel used some bad thermal interface material or whatever on the die instead of using fluxless solder (correct me if im wrong here anyone) so thermal performance is just really bad - there's a club on overclockers.net specifically dedicated to delidding CPU and applying a certain type of thermal paste (liquid ultra/pro or something) which consistently cuts temperatures by like 10-30 degrees celcius. With that mod, the CPU's are amazing overclockers, but its unknown if haswell will have the same problem, running a lot hotter than it should. Hopefully it wont, at the very least intel are aware of it


Thankyou for the very detailed response, i didnt actually know haswell will have a different socket, that's kind of a bummer as i was planning of upgrading each 2 generations, i dont think haswell will justify the cost of buying a whole new mobo.

As for cooling situations, i have a very good cooler (noctua DH-14) and a decent case for cooling (coolermaster 690 II advanced), i'm able to overclock my i5 2500k to a stable 4.7ghz however i have to increase the voltage by quite a bit.

Basically i want to have a machine that's able to stream at 1080p 60fps with heavy overclocking, i imagined the 3770k can achieve that, if i get a decent chip.. What do you think? At the moment my i5 2500k can do 720p 60fps and 1080p 30fps very comfortably, will the 3770k be able to achieve 1080p 60fps?

I have heard a lot of .... mixed opinions about the overclock-ability of the 3770k, any kind of "off the cuff" benchmarks you could give me on what i may able to achieve under my cooling situations?
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
February 22 2013 16:24 GMT
#27736
Thanks for the help mister fred, is there any resources out there how to actually put it all together if i were to buy all those components
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
February 22 2013 16:31 GMT
#27737
On February 22 2013 22:47 RiSkyToss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 18:27 Cyro wrote:
You wanna add hyperthreading? Go for it. If not, dont.

There used to be a lot of question in the overclocking community if it was worth it to get a 3770k over a 2600k, new vs new, for the same price. The added heat (as much as >20c at the same clock speeds) and hardly improved performance per clock (~7-8%?) meant that you could just run the 2600k like 300mhz faster and have it perform equally or better.

As it turns out, with a long time to play with things, Ivy's heat problem is not so bad and it is also much more tolerant of higher voltages (an advantage) and in general, not as bad of an overclocker as people thought. If you get really lucky on a chip, you can run it 5.2ghz 24/7. Most dont come close to that, but there's a slight lead for ivy bridge in terms of performance after overclocking - if it justifies the extra cost is another argument though - again, this is new vs new. People who literally do not have a CPU would pull up the question of if it's worth buying an ivybridge CPU or if the one you already have would be a better choice.

Stock vs stock, 2500k is 3.3ghz, 3770k is 3.5 with about an 8% performance per clock increase, so something like a 14% improvement in single threaded performance and 35-40% in multi-threaded.

You're talking about unlocked vs unlocked CPU's though, that gap will be brought closer with overclocking and if you dont have a higher end air cooler and a decent setup with case fans etc - the advantage just gets pushed further towards sandy bridge.

Nobody really knows what to expect from Haswell (releasing in the first days of june) but it's clocked the same as ivy bridge - i think it will be something like 10-25% performance improvements (over ivybridge), but likely to be the lower end of that


It will use a new socket and be the last intel CPU to use DDR3 RAM IIRC, so its a little tricky for upgrading into/out of - im not sure on the details if its revision (broadwell) in a year or whatever that uses DDR4 will need a whole new motherboard or anything like that, its all new to me

Haswell could have significantly better overclocking performance - ivy bridge overclocks great, better than sandy, more tolerant of even 1.55v for 24/7 overclocks whereas sandy users reported degradation at 1.4, better performance, its basically great, but just has a massive issue with running so hot. Most of them comes down to a manufacturing problem - Intel used some bad thermal interface material or whatever on the die instead of using fluxless solder (correct me if im wrong here anyone) so thermal performance is just really bad - there's a club on overclockers.net specifically dedicated to delidding CPU and applying a certain type of thermal paste (liquid ultra/pro or something) which consistently cuts temperatures by like 10-30 degrees celcius. With that mod, the CPU's are amazing overclockers, but its unknown if haswell will have the same problem, running a lot hotter than it should. Hopefully it wont, at the very least intel are aware of it


Thankyou for the very detailed response, i didnt actually know haswell will have a different socket, that's kind of a bummer as i was planning of upgrading each 2 generations, i dont think haswell will justify the cost of buying a whole new mobo.

As for cooling situations, i have a very good cooler (noctua DH-14) and a decent case for cooling (coolermaster 690 II advanced), i'm able to overclock my i5 2500k to a stable 4.7ghz however i have to increase the voltage by quite a bit.

Basically i want to have a machine that's able to stream at 1080p 60fps with heavy overclocking, i imagined the 3770k can achieve that, if i get a decent chip.. What do you think? At the moment my i5 2500k can do 720p 60fps and 1080p 30fps very comfortably, will the 3770k be able to achieve 1080p 60fps?

I have heard a lot of .... mixed opinions about the overclock-ability of the 3770k, any kind of "off the cuff" benchmarks you could give me on what i may able to achieve under my cooling situations?


Sandy Bridge is one generation - Haswell is the next. The last generation before that was in 2008/9 or something - ivy bridge is just minor changes to sandy.

Your cooling situation should be pretty good, pretty high end setup for air - at that point it will depend on your luck of the draw with the CPU that you get. What voltage are you running the 2500k at for 4.7ghz? What are your temps under load (intelburntest 2/4gb/max RAM or 5-10 mins small fft prime95)

Me and a friend were overclocking recently, the 3770k i have does 4.4ghz on 1.128v. Both of the 3570k's he got needed over 1.25v for full stability - by 4.6ghz he was at 1.4v while my chip did 4.7 on 1.24v. Some CPU's are just better than others for overclocking. If you get a good one, with an NH-D14 you could go to perhaps 4.9ghz 24/7 without messing with the CPU physically - bad one, 4.4-4.5. Some numbers from your 2500k would help to get a better idea of thermal performance but it might not limit you here

Takes some careful benchmarking and stress testing under encoding and playing load etc to work out good settings - because i was experimenting a lot myself, i figured that 1920x1080, 60fps at Veryfast should be doable solidly on a 3770k at ~4.6-4.8+ghz - a lot of people throw in wrong or over the top settings that can give bad or suboptimal results at times, i think that is about the CPU threshhold when you can start using those kinds of settings. The difference from your 2500k at that point would be something like 25-40% more encoding performance on your CPU with the load of the game on, but there's the potential to be stuck a few hundred mhz down.

Its also tricky to livestream 1920x1080, 60fps because it just brings down performance so much. Tested against a 300fps base, the best performing option i have found on two systems is OBS game capture, which cuts FPS by about 45% - but i was never able to get a solid video from this - output always ranges from about 45-60fps, averaging maybe 50 without any CPU cores coming near max load - the average user would not notice but it could affect benchmark results. Im not sure how to make it work, so i never used it in depth. Xsplit screen region is notably worse, and its gamesource cuts FPS by about 65%.

With a 2500k@4.4ghz (according to R1CH's benchmark, 1v1 lategame zvz) you see FPS minimums below 40.. if you are losing half of that, its a very big deal.. and of course any time your game is above 16.67ms frametimes (below "perfect" 60fps - in reality this is closer to 80-100+fps in sc2) your stream will miss frames, or encode the same frame multiple times, because it does not have a new frame source to encode, so you start to see the effects of having lower framerate very very soon.. Its a problem at all settings, but higher resolution*fps screen/game capture makes it a lot, lot worse. Its a question to me even if you have the CPU power, if it is worth doing because you lose so much performance with every option (and i have tested them all, a lot) that the stream, being stuck at 3mbits or so regardless of settings due to internet - would suffer and be worse set to 60fps, compared to 30
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 17:11:29
February 22 2013 17:10 GMT
#27738
On February 23 2013 01:24 jamesr12 wrote:
Thanks for the help mister fred, is there any resources out there how to actually put it all together if i were to buy all those components


There's a variety of videos/guides. The one we most often link here is:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zcR8Fl8cwZk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Though I don't think you need to worry about special anti-static gloves or anything. I wouldn't worry too much about static discharge unless you live in a very dry area. I mean, don't shuffle around on carpet in socks when building a PC, but other than that you're generally fine unless you live in an area where you shock yourself every other time you open your car door.

Mostly it's just fitting square pegs into square holes and trapezoidal pegs into trapezoidal holes. Also keep in mind that when the guy in the video says "a little bit of force" is needed, I find it's more "shoving that son-bitch into place hard".

Edit: Weird, dunno what it is with responding to your posts & fail formatting. Well you can follow the url.
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
RiSkysc2
Profile Joined September 2011
696 Posts
February 22 2013 19:14 GMT
#27739
On February 23 2013 01:31 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 22:47 RiSkyToss wrote:
On February 22 2013 18:27 Cyro wrote:
You wanna add hyperthreading? Go for it. If not, dont.

There used to be a lot of question in the overclocking community if it was worth it to get a 3770k over a 2600k, new vs new, for the same price. The added heat (as much as >20c at the same clock speeds) and hardly improved performance per clock (~7-8%?) meant that you could just run the 2600k like 300mhz faster and have it perform equally or better.

As it turns out, with a long time to play with things, Ivy's heat problem is not so bad and it is also much more tolerant of higher voltages (an advantage) and in general, not as bad of an overclocker as people thought. If you get really lucky on a chip, you can run it 5.2ghz 24/7. Most dont come close to that, but there's a slight lead for ivy bridge in terms of performance after overclocking - if it justifies the extra cost is another argument though - again, this is new vs new. People who literally do not have a CPU would pull up the question of if it's worth buying an ivybridge CPU or if the one you already have would be a better choice.

Stock vs stock, 2500k is 3.3ghz, 3770k is 3.5 with about an 8% performance per clock increase, so something like a 14% improvement in single threaded performance and 35-40% in multi-threaded.

You're talking about unlocked vs unlocked CPU's though, that gap will be brought closer with overclocking and if you dont have a higher end air cooler and a decent setup with case fans etc - the advantage just gets pushed further towards sandy bridge.

Nobody really knows what to expect from Haswell (releasing in the first days of june) but it's clocked the same as ivy bridge - i think it will be something like 10-25% performance improvements (over ivybridge), but likely to be the lower end of that


It will use a new socket and be the last intel CPU to use DDR3 RAM IIRC, so its a little tricky for upgrading into/out of - im not sure on the details if its revision (broadwell) in a year or whatever that uses DDR4 will need a whole new motherboard or anything like that, its all new to me

Haswell could have significantly better overclocking performance - ivy bridge overclocks great, better than sandy, more tolerant of even 1.55v for 24/7 overclocks whereas sandy users reported degradation at 1.4, better performance, its basically great, but just has a massive issue with running so hot. Most of them comes down to a manufacturing problem - Intel used some bad thermal interface material or whatever on the die instead of using fluxless solder (correct me if im wrong here anyone) so thermal performance is just really bad - there's a club on overclockers.net specifically dedicated to delidding CPU and applying a certain type of thermal paste (liquid ultra/pro or something) which consistently cuts temperatures by like 10-30 degrees celcius. With that mod, the CPU's are amazing overclockers, but its unknown if haswell will have the same problem, running a lot hotter than it should. Hopefully it wont, at the very least intel are aware of it


Thankyou for the very detailed response, i didnt actually know haswell will have a different socket, that's kind of a bummer as i was planning of upgrading each 2 generations, i dont think haswell will justify the cost of buying a whole new mobo.

As for cooling situations, i have a very good cooler (noctua DH-14) and a decent case for cooling (coolermaster 690 II advanced), i'm able to overclock my i5 2500k to a stable 4.7ghz however i have to increase the voltage by quite a bit.

Basically i want to have a machine that's able to stream at 1080p 60fps with heavy overclocking, i imagined the 3770k can achieve that, if i get a decent chip.. What do you think? At the moment my i5 2500k can do 720p 60fps and 1080p 30fps very comfortably, will the 3770k be able to achieve 1080p 60fps?

I have heard a lot of .... mixed opinions about the overclock-ability of the 3770k, any kind of "off the cuff" benchmarks you could give me on what i may able to achieve under my cooling situations?


Sandy Bridge is one generation - Haswell is the next. The last generation before that was in 2008/9 or something - ivy bridge is just minor changes to sandy.

Your cooling situation should be pretty good, pretty high end setup for air - at that point it will depend on your luck of the draw with the CPU that you get. What voltage are you running the 2500k at for 4.7ghz? What are your temps under load (intelburntest 2/4gb/max RAM or 5-10 mins small fft prime95)

Me and a friend were overclocking recently, the 3770k i have does 4.4ghz on 1.128v. Both of the 3570k's he got needed over 1.25v for full stability - by 4.6ghz he was at 1.4v while my chip did 4.7 on 1.24v. Some CPU's are just better than others for overclocking. If you get a good one, with an NH-D14 you could go to perhaps 4.9ghz 24/7 without messing with the CPU physically - bad one, 4.4-4.5. Some numbers from your 2500k would help to get a better idea of thermal performance but it might not limit you here

Takes some careful benchmarking and stress testing under encoding and playing load etc to work out good settings - because i was experimenting a lot myself, i figured that 1920x1080, 60fps at Veryfast should be doable solidly on a 3770k at ~4.6-4.8+ghz - a lot of people throw in wrong or over the top settings that can give bad or suboptimal results at times, i think that is about the CPU threshhold when you can start using those kinds of settings. The difference from your 2500k at that point would be something like 25-40% more encoding performance on your CPU with the load of the game on, but there's the potential to be stuck a few hundred mhz down.

Its also tricky to livestream 1920x1080, 60fps because it just brings down performance so much. Tested against a 300fps base, the best performing option i have found on two systems is OBS game capture, which cuts FPS by about 45% - but i was never able to get a solid video from this - output always ranges from about 45-60fps, averaging maybe 50 without any CPU cores coming near max load - the average user would not notice but it could affect benchmark results. Im not sure how to make it work, so i never used it in depth. Xsplit screen region is notably worse, and its gamesource cuts FPS by about 65%.

With a 2500k@4.4ghz (according to R1CH's benchmark, 1v1 lategame zvz) you see FPS minimums below 40.. if you are losing half of that, its a very big deal.. and of course any time your game is above 16.67ms frametimes (below "perfect" 60fps - in reality this is closer to 80-100+fps in sc2) your stream will miss frames, or encode the same frame multiple times, because it does not have a new frame source to encode, so you start to see the effects of having lower framerate very very soon.. Its a problem at all settings, but higher resolution*fps screen/game capture makes it a lot, lot worse. Its a question to me even if you have the CPU power, if it is worth doing because you lose so much performance with every option (and i have tested them all, a lot) that the stream, being stuck at 3mbits or so regardless of settings due to internet - would suffer and be worse set to 60fps, compared to 30


My voltage is at 1.32V, my max temperatures are 83 on full load with intelburntest (at maximum settings).

It's a tricky decision to make honestly, but i think i've come to the conclusion that it's probably better to wait until Haswell. The Haswell equivalent to the i7 3770k should be able to 1080p 60fps even with an unlucky chip, correct me if you think i'm wrong on that.

Thanks very much for your help!
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
February 22 2013 19:33 GMT
#27740
I wouldn't go in expecting more than 20% better performance after overclocking, and that's assuming they overclock further, which may not necessarily be true. It's not like anybody not under NDA knows for sure right now.

It's not going to be enough of a difference to make 1080p60 from too strenuous to a joke, or anything like that.
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