On December 08 2012 15:01 Empirimancer wrote: The Oracle's new pulsar beam ability is powerful, but really annoying to use, because it starts draining 4 energy per second not when it attacks, but as soon as it's toggled on, and then doesn't stop draining until it's toggled off or out of energy.
You'll say that no worse than banshee or ghost cloak, and that's true in a way, but the difference is that they don't drain energy as fast, and especially they have a visual effect that makes it really obvious that cloak is activated, whereas it's really easy to forget you've turned pulsar beam on.
It was done for some microing around Oracle. Instead flying over enemy territory without looking at Oracle at all, you now need to baby-sit a bit with oracles. And thats probably good, because they do tons of damage to worker lines.
On December 08 2012 08:28 aXa wrote: I'm reading a lot of happy comments about this patch note, but seriously i'm kind of worried... What's up with the flashy abilities ? Every unit has become a spellcaster or alike.. maybe I am old-fashioned but in brood-war, what made units unique and really enjoyable to watch was the combination of different factor (speed, range, attack speed..) and not "spells", which sound very LoL'esque, or even Warcraft 3 esque to me...
But well we will see ...
sc2 is not bw. the streamlining of macro due to mbs and infinitely big control group leaves apm to be used for cool abilities on units
i have to say i prefer a myriad of abilities to mindless apm in macro
if you have enough abilities even deathball vs deathball becomes interesting. just imagine how high it pushes up the skill ceiling
take the protoss deathball as an example: in WoL to micro it perfectly you basically a-move into a good concave and activate guardian shields, concentrate on FF and maybe storm
in hots to manage it perfectly you have to add another control group for your oracles and use timebomb, and also activate your voidrays/position your tempests/micro you carriers if you have any air in your ball
i like this development, its making unit compositions much more versatile with higher skill
On December 08 2012 08:28 aXa wrote: I'm reading a lot of happy comments about this patch note, but seriously i'm kind of worried... What's up with the flashy abilities ? Every unit has become a spellcaster or alike.. maybe I am old-fashioned but in brood-war, what made units unique and really enjoyable to watch was the combination of different factor (speed, range, attack speed..) and not "spells", which sound very LoL'esque, or even Warcraft 3 esque to me...
But well we will see ...
sc2 is not bw. the streamlining of macro due to mbs and infinitely big control group leaves apm to be used for cool abilities on units
i have to say i prefer a myriad of abilities to mindless apm in macro
if you have enough abilities even deathball vs deathball becomes interesting. just imagine how high it pushes up the skill ceiling
take the protoss deathball as an example: in WoL to micro it perfectly you basically a-move into a good concave and activate guardian shields, concentrate on FF and maybe storm
in hots to manage it perfectly you have to add another control group for your oracles and use timebomb, and also activate your voidrays/position your tempests/micro you carriers if you have any air in your ball
i like this development, its making unit compositions much more versatile with higher skill
You arent thinking about this correctly, because the "myriad of abilities" still needs apm to handle it and we have seen how "balanced" Blizzards spells are in todays Proleague games.
STX Soul vs. SK Telekom T1, game 5, Bifrost ... the Protoss used the ridiculously overpowered Forcefield to secure an easy victory against the Zerg. Please dont make the mistake of blaming the map for this, because it is the stupid spells and abilities which limits the mapmakers from going crazy and not the other way round. The stupid crutch spells which Blizzard needs to balance the three races against each other (because the too high unit density forces it) are a pain in the butt and really limits the gameplay rather than enhancing it.
Game 6 of the same match made yet another stupid ability very clear - at least to me - and that is the burst speed for Medivacs, which will make sure they get away safe 100% of the time due to being faster than any ground units possibly pursuing them. So the excitement of "will the Medivacs get away or will the Marines be able to get them?" is lost.
Does anyone know how does the fungal projectile stand in comparison to EMP projectile (slower/faster/same speed)? I was trying to find any information on the speed of the later, but there really isn't any on the sc wikis.
Interesting and VERY brave changes overall. Some random comments:
1. Like the Thor change, I was thinking something like that myself too.
2. Hydra change is a step in the right direction, but may not be enough, some additional buff ideas: get rid of grooved spines. Supply cost is ok I guess, but how about making it cost 90/30.
3. Hunter seeker missile: now it totally overlaps with the Yamato cannon, this was a bad idea. It needs splash and proper speed to hit targets surely but still enable the opponent to split and counter-micro. I would love to see in big championships TvP big lategame battles where HSMs go off, starting very slowly, pointing to the target, but turning to ultra-fast speed rapidly while the Protoss player does some crazy splits reducing the damage, then the bio stims and storms go off... That would have the suspense and thrill...
4. I like the Ultralisk changes as burrow charge looked kinda silly. I know SC2 is supposed to be realistic, but still...
4. I don't like both the Widow Mine and the Swarm Host. I feel that there is a basic conceptual problem with these units. The thing is that the very long cooldown makes this units randomly effective. And you have to mass them to actually accomplish something. I believe these units doesn't fit into SC. Perhaps it would be better for Blizzard to admit they cannot come up with anything better than the Spider mine and the Lurker. Even if they brought back these units, it still wouldn't be Brood War, so I don't see why not give them a try at least.
5. Just watched HD's video about the zerg changes. Fungal sems VEEEERY slow. You will be pretty hard to hit stimmed bio with that. Missed fungals=zerg lost the game, so I think this is too much. I honestly don't understand why Blizzard doesn't implement the most obious nerf, slow instead of rooting.
After watching the video below, I guess I take that back, it looks like it has the same speed as EMP. But I still don't think this was the obvious nerf to fungal.
On December 08 2012 19:22 Hren wrote: Does anyone know how does the fungal projectile stand in comparison to EMP projectile (slower/faster/same speed)? I was trying to find any information on the speed of the later, but there really isn't any on the sc wikis.
It seems to be much slower than EMP. It's funny blinking away from a Fungal that used to otherwise be instant casted and make you unable to blink away.
On December 08 2012 21:53 Zeon0 wrote: Am I the only one who thinks WoL > HotS? i just dont like so many spellcaster/special ability units.
I'm completely the opposite. I'm only watching Proleague for SKT, Flash and LiquidEG. I can't stand watching or even playing WoL anymore. T_T
You didnt notice how overpowered the use of Forcefield was in todays SKT/STX game 5? Those are basic problems of SC2 which wont disappear with HotS and a general "fix WoL" is needed first.
So far the maps have been adjusted to not allow for things to be overpowered, that has made the game quite stale IMO. The different map style of the KeSPA map making team clearly shows how terrible SC2 truly is and how much it has limited the creativity of the map makers. The reasons are easy to see if you want to see them, but too many refuse to do that ...
In essence WoL is superior to HotS because there are far less fancy spells in it and many of the new junk has the potential to be just as OP as Forcefield and Fungal are right now. The gameplay of BW beats both of them by far, but sadly the game and its graphics are a bit too old for todays expectations.
On December 08 2012 21:53 Zeon0 wrote: Am I the only one who thinks WoL > HotS? i just dont like so many spellcaster/special ability units.
I'm completely the opposite. I'm only watching Proleague for SKT, Flash and LiquidEG. I can't stand watching or even playing WoL anymore. T_T
You didnt notice how overpowered the use of Forcefield was in todays SKT/STX game 5? Those are basic problems of SC2 which wont disappear with HotS and a general "fix WoL" is needed first.
So far the maps have been adjusted to not allow for things to be overpowered, that has made the game quite stale IMO. The different map style of the KeSPA map making team clearly shows how terrible SC2 truly is and how much it has limited the creativity of the map makers. The reasons are easy to see if you want to see them, but too many refuse to do that ...
WoL is superior to HotS because there are far less fancy spells in it and many of the new junk has the potential to be just as OP as Forcefield and Fungal are right now.
STX Soul vs. SK Telekom T1, game 5, Bifrost ... the Protoss used the ridiculously overpowered Forcefield to secure an easy victory against the Zerg. Please dont make the mistake of blaming the map for this, because it is the stupid spells and abilities which limits the mapmakers from going crazy and not the other way round. The stupid crutch spells which Blizzard needs to balance the three races against each other (because the too high unit density forces it) are a pain in the butt and really limits the gameplay rather than enhancing it.
I wish you hadn't have spoiled this for me, but after watching the game you'll realise that he lost because he built nothing but drones and queens for the first half of the game.
If he'd have had any units at all he would have stopped that from happening. Don't blame forcefield for that. That was just pure greed.
Really cool changes. Everything feels very Bw-esque. -Raven Seeker missile is just the irradiate now, except it can do dmg to armored as well as bio. Should do well against very slow, high priority targets. BTW i played T in BW, irradiate and mines were seriously OP and awesome we just didn't want to blizz to notice and nerf us. -Swarm host has hp comparable to Lurker now, Cool :D -Yay Hydra Speed upgrade at Lair, now Hydras can actually be mobile when retreating or reinforcing. -Muta speed increase to make it easier to dodge projectile fungal should be a cool micro interaction. -Projectile fungal with 8 range, should be like splitting vs Plague, , units may be able to sprea slightly better with cast and travel time of projectile. -Voidray no charge up time? Maybe to encourage stargate play as well as Tempest play? -Terran having synergy in their mech upgrades will be really noticeable when late game battles occur and upgrades really matter with huge armies.
On December 08 2012 21:53 Zeon0 wrote: Am I the only one who thinks WoL > HotS? i just dont like so many spellcaster/special ability units.
I'm completely the opposite. I'm only watching Proleague for SKT, Flash and LiquidEG. I can't stand watching or even playing WoL anymore. T_T
You didnt notice how overpowered the use of Forcefield was in todays SKT/STX game 5? Those are basic problems of SC2 which wont disappear with HotS and a general "fix WoL" is needed first.
So far the maps have been adjusted to not allow for things to be overpowered, that has made the game quite stale IMO. The different map style of the KeSPA map making team clearly shows how terrible SC2 truly is and how much it has limited the creativity of the map makers. The reasons are easy to see if you want to see them, but too many refuse to do that ...
WoL is superior to HotS because there are far less fancy spells in it and many of the new junk has the potential to be just as OP as Forcefield and Fungal are right now.
STX Soul vs. SK Telekom T1, game 5, Bifrost ... the Protoss used the ridiculously overpowered Forcefield to secure an easy victory against the Zerg. Please dont make the mistake of blaming the map for this, because it is the stupid spells and abilities which limits the mapmakers from going crazy and not the other way round. The stupid crutch spells which Blizzard needs to balance the three races against each other (because the too high unit density forces it) are a pain in the butt and really limits the gameplay rather than enhancing it.
I wish you hadn't have spoiled this for me, but after watching the game you'll realise that he lost because he built nothing but drones and queens for the first half of the game.
If he'd have had any units at all he would have stopped that from happening. Don't blame forcefield for that. That was just pure greed.
If he'd had any units he wouldnt have had three bases to defend, but the map really lends itself to abusing that choke towards the third. There are too many abilities in SC2 which allow people to abuse things like this and P/T will have to cover this long path with turrets/cannons to prevent Zerg from landing a Nydus there "behind the front" outside of vision. LOTS of crappy too mobile junk spells and abilities in SC2.
On December 08 2012 21:53 Zeon0 wrote: Am I the only one who thinks WoL > HotS? i just dont like so many spellcaster/special ability units.
I'm completely the opposite. I'm only watching Proleague for SKT, Flash and LiquidEG. I can't stand watching or even playing WoL anymore. T_T
You didnt notice how overpowered the use of Forcefield was in todays SKT/STX game 5? Those are basic problems of SC2 which wont disappear with HotS and a general "fix WoL" is needed first.
So far the maps have been adjusted to not allow for things to be overpowered, that has made the game quite stale IMO. The different map style of the KeSPA map making team clearly shows how terrible SC2 truly is and how much it has limited the creativity of the map makers. The reasons are easy to see if you want to see them, but too many refuse to do that ...
In essence WoL is superior to HotS because there are far less fancy spells in it and many of the new junk has the potential to be just as OP as Forcefield and Fungal are right now. The gameplay of BW beats both of them by far, but sadly the game and its graphics are a bit too old for todays expectations.
If he'd had any units he wouldnt have had three bases to defend, but the map really lends itself to abusing that choke towards the third. There are too many abilities in SC2 which allow people to abuse things like this and P/T will have to cover this long path with turrets/cannons to prevent Zerg from landing a Nydus there "behind the front" outside of vision. LOTS of crappy too mobile junk spells and abilities in SC2.
He wouldn't have a third if he had no units? Are you serious? At any time he could have built some roaches or spines to defend that part of the map (if they know it's possible, it's easily stopped) and he tech straight to infestors as they're so broken in WOL expecting to hold off any push to his front.
He lost that game fair and square. You don't even need loads of turrets//cannons up there to prevent nyduses, you just need to learn how to play/scout.
Anyway, why are you complaining about WoL stuff in the HoTS forum possibly spoiling the games for people who haven't seen them?
On December 08 2012 08:03 FeUerFlieGe wrote: This patch honestly gave me hope for the future of SC2!
Thats false hope my friend.
SC2 has no appeal and no patch can fix that.
Once you find out you're wasting time on moving pixels and virtual rankings things become quite different.
someone is butthurt and wont stop posting in this thread to say he stopped playing , we dont care ,why are you here posting 2 time in a thread of a game you quitted.sounds like someone likes the game but cant play it haha.Or are you stil playing and rpetend not to... in both case this is sad.
changes seems nice .. need to actually play hots to test them haha
On December 08 2012 21:53 Zeon0 wrote: Am I the only one who thinks WoL > HotS? i just dont like so many spellcaster/special ability units.
I'm completely the opposite. I'm only watching Proleague for SKT, Flash and LiquidEG. I can't stand watching or even playing WoL anymore. T_T
You didnt notice how overpowered the use of Forcefield was in todays SKT/STX game 5? Those are basic problems of SC2 which wont disappear with HotS and a general "fix WoL" is needed first.
So far the maps have been adjusted to not allow for things to be overpowered, that has made the game quite stale IMO. The different map style of the KeSPA map making team clearly shows how terrible SC2 truly is and how much it has limited the creativity of the map makers. The reasons are easy to see if you want to see them, but too many refuse to do that ...
WoL is superior to HotS because there are far less fancy spells in it and many of the new junk has the potential to be just as OP as Forcefield and Fungal are right now.
STX Soul vs. SK Telekom T1, game 5, Bifrost ... the Protoss used the ridiculously overpowered Forcefield to secure an easy victory against the Zerg. Please dont make the mistake of blaming the map for this, because it is the stupid spells and abilities which limits the mapmakers from going crazy and not the other way round. The stupid crutch spells which Blizzard needs to balance the three races against each other (because the too high unit density forces it) are a pain in the butt and really limits the gameplay rather than enhancing it.
I wish you hadn't have spoiled this for me, but after watching the game you'll realise that he lost because he built nothing but drones and queens for the first half of the game.
If he'd have had any units at all he would have stopped that from happening. Don't blame forcefield for that. That was just pure greed.
If he'd had any units he wouldnt have had three bases to defend, but the map really lends itself to abusing that choke towards the third. There are too many abilities in SC2 which allow people to abuse things like this and P/T will have to cover this long path with turrets/cannons to prevent Zerg from landing a Nydus there "behind the front" outside of vision. LOTS of crappy too mobile junk spells and abilities in SC2.
You're casting judgement on a brand new map that's had exactly one televised game to point out what a broken ability forcefield is, without any regard what actually happened during the game.
If he'd had any units he wouldnt have had three bases to defend, but the map really lends itself to abusing that choke towards the third. There are too many abilities in SC2 which allow people to abuse things like this and P/T will have to cover this long path with turrets/cannons to prevent Zerg from landing a Nydus there "behind the front" outside of vision. LOTS of crappy too mobile junk spells and abilities in SC2.
He wouldn't have a third if he had no units? Are you serious? At any time he could have built some roaches or spines to defend that part of the map (if they know it's possible, it's easily stopped) and he tech straight to infestors as they're so broken in WOL expecting to hold off any push to his front.
He lost that game fair and square. You don't even need loads of turrets//cannons up there to prevent nyduses, you just need to learn how to play/scout.
Anyway, why are you complaining about WoL stuff in the HoTS forum possibly spoiling the games for people who haven't seen them?
The point why I am complaining here is that there are too many abilities which are easily abuseable in WoL already and yet "the community" is cheering when Blizzard is about to add even more of them in their next expansion. The whole point is that "too much mobility" is limiting the map makers and the KeSPA maps were really refreshing after the GOM maps, but also easily abuseable due to the racial skills.
Thus I would love to see Blizzard FIXING THE BASICS FIRST before adding new nifty stuff to the game.
Oh and in case you didnt see my complaint about game 6 yet just scroll up to HERE ... some new stuff will blatantly remove excitement for the price of efficiency. Everything has a price and most of the new stuff is over the top.
Yet another of my "ideas" which people have called "potentially awesome" was to use the Viper to simply drag your own Ultralisks around and maybe even into the base of someone else ... thus circumventing any defensive front or army. Dragging them out of a fight is also an option (instead of losing them), but thats not all you can do with that spell since it also works on enemy units. Ultralisk drag
The point is also that Zerg and Protoss get a new bunch of broken spells on top of their already broken abilities and Terrans get nothing. The game wont be fun anymore next year if Blizzard doesnt fix that drastically ... and fixing involves nerfing/removing a lot of stuff.
EPT
