On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Lil zerg boi gonna cwy?
Oh, sorry. I guess T is just supposed to be blatantly overpowered for the first year of every release.
New vid with adrenal lings going in both sides
EDIT:
On December 08 2012 05:05 Twilight Sparkle wrote:
On December 08 2012 04:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On December 08 2012 04:50 s3rp wrote:
On December 08 2012 04:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On December 08 2012 04:18 Twilight Sparkle wrote:
On December 08 2012 04:03 TheRabidDeer wrote: This is why MM is OP in drops
As long as the medivac has energy, no amount of lings will kill the drop if they get into a good position.
Even on a map that does have such a small area behind the mineral line, if you had just used the tiniest bit of micro to send a pack of lings through the top and left entrances you could have been dealing constant damage to 3 marines rather than 1 and cleaned them all up. Maybe caduceus reactor is overpowered, maybe it isn't, but you won't prove anything either way by using such contrived and unreasonable examples.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
I just think that it is a bit of a ridiculous change when medivac drops in WoL were already REALLY strong in pretty much every matchup.
Queen and spore to kill the medivac. Drops are supposed to do dmg or at least force an investment (spors). There is nothing OP there. It's like having 30 marines with their backs to a wall and dyeing to banelings, and crying OP...it's just stupid.
Queen and spore wont kill the medivac unless he doesnt pay attention to the drop at all. Historically, they have not stopped drops.
Do you want to imply you've never seen Zergs split off a few banelings to help with their drop defense, or an infestor, rather than trying to use pure lings? If you add 2 spine crawlers and a queen to that situation (with the queen targeting down the medivac) then it becomes much more reasonable.
In any case, try dropping 4 hellbats in that spot. Then infinity cracklings won't be able to force the medivac to even use any energy. Zerg can't deal with drops using pure ling in HotS. It's not a big deal.
Do you want to imply that terrans lose marines to banelings when they drop? Also, one infestor with queen doesnt stop the drop (assuming the medivac reaches solid ground to unload), nor does 1 queen and 2 spines. Spines (again, historically) dont stop drops but stall them for the army to return.
I dont get how terrans can think that drops are at all balanced with both of these changes in place. Hell, even some terrans have said "patch terran time" or something along those lines. When people of your own race say something like that, you know something is not quite right.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
As long as the medivac has energy, no amount of lings will kill the drop if they get into a good position.
Even on a map that does have such a small area behind the mineral line, if you had just used the tiniest bit of micro to send a pack of lings through the top and left entrances you could have been dealing constant damage to 3 marines rather than 1 and cleaned them all up. Maybe caduceus reactor is overpowered, maybe it isn't, but you won't prove anything either way by using such contrived and unreasonable examples.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
No, I am not implying that. In WoL drops were dealt with in the following ways for each race(high level, which you are implying you don't watch): Z Mutas Spores Queens Lings+Infestors Creep spread to spot drops Etc(but never pure lings, in high level TvZ)
Mutas have rarely seen use in ZvT for a long time. I rarely see spores used Queens are obviously used because they can help Lings + infestors is popular, however tons of drops still get through at the professional level Creep spread is cleaned up by decent terrans and rarely reaches points able to spot drops Lings are OFTEN used in high level ZvT because of their speed and they always reach the drop first.
People saying that lings are never used to deal with drops are strange and in denial.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
On December 08 2012 04:18 Twilight Sparkle wrote: [quote] Even on a map that does have such a small area behind the mineral line, if you had just used the tiniest bit of micro to send a pack of lings through the top and left entrances you could have been dealing constant damage to 3 marines rather than 1 and cleaned them all up. Maybe caduceus reactor is overpowered, maybe it isn't, but you won't prove anything either way by using such contrived and unreasonable examples.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
No, I am not implying that. In WoL drops were dealt with in the following ways for each race(high level, which you are implying you don't watch): Z Mutas Spores Queens Lings+Infestors Creep spread to spot drops Etc(but never pure lings, in high level TvZ)
Mutas have rarely seen use in ZvT for a long time. I rarely see spores used Queens are obviously used because they can help Lings + infestors is popular, however tons of drops still get through at the professional level Creep spread is cleaned up by decent terrans and rarely reaches points able to spot drops Lings are OFTEN used in high level ZvT because of their speed and they always reach the drop first.
People saying that lings are never used to deal with drops are strange and in denial.
Are you implying that Terran players have been able to drop and do damage over the past year? Are you implying that Zerg is actually not able to defend drops? Are you implying that Zs can't defend drops with just lings anymore, when they clearly don't have any other options? Are you implying that you actually don't know anything about Starcraft 2?
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
On December 08 2012 04:18 Twilight Sparkle wrote: [quote] Even on a map that does have such a small area behind the mineral line, if you had just used the tiniest bit of micro to send a pack of lings through the top and left entrances you could have been dealing constant damage to 3 marines rather than 1 and cleaned them all up. Maybe caduceus reactor is overpowered, maybe it isn't, but you won't prove anything either way by using such contrived and unreasonable examples.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
No, I am not implying that. In WoL drops were dealt with in the following ways for each race(high level, which you are implying you don't watch): Z Mutas Spores Queens Lings+Infestors Creep spread to spot drops Etc(but never pure lings, in high level TvZ)
Mutas have rarely seen use in ZvT for a long time. I rarely see spores used Queens are obviously used because they can help Lings + infestors is popular, however tons of drops still get through at the professional level Creep spread is cleaned up by decent terrans and rarely reaches points able to spot drops Lings are OFTEN used in high level ZvT because of their speed and they always reach the drop first.
People saying that lings are never used to deal with drops are strange and in denial.
They are used but not alone, usually with Infestors or Banelings.
Voidray seems REALLY good at killing armored things now. No need to be charged, just have 2 or 3 of them attacking roaches or swarm host after eliminating the anti air mais they drop like fly.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
On December 08 2012 04:18 Twilight Sparkle wrote: [quote] Even on a map that does have such a small area behind the mineral line, if you had just used the tiniest bit of micro to send a pack of lings through the top and left entrances you could have been dealing constant damage to 3 marines rather than 1 and cleaned them all up. Maybe caduceus reactor is overpowered, maybe it isn't, but you won't prove anything either way by using such contrived and unreasonable examples.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
I just think that it is a bit of a ridiculous change when medivac drops in WoL were already REALLY strong in pretty much every matchup.
Queen and spore to kill the medivac. Drops are supposed to do dmg or at least force an investment (spors). There is nothing OP there. It's like having 30 marines with their backs to a wall and dyeing to banelings, and crying OP...it's just stupid.
Queen and spore wont kill the medivac unless he doesnt pay attention to the drop at all. Historically, they have not stopped drops.
Do you want to imply you've never seen Zergs split off a few banelings to help with their drop defense, or an infestor, rather than trying to use pure lings? If you add 2 spine crawlers and a queen to that situation (with the queen targeting down the medivac) then it becomes much more reasonable.
In any case, try dropping 4 hellbats in that spot. Then infinity cracklings won't be able to force the medivac to even use any energy. Zerg can't deal with drops using pure ling in HotS. It's not a big deal.
Do you want to imply that terrans lose marines to banelings when they drop? Also, one infestor with queen doesnt stop the drop (assuming the medivac reaches solid ground to unload), nor does 1 queen and 2 spines. Spines (again, historically) dont stop drops but stall them for the army to return.
I dont get how terrans can think that drops are at all balanced with both of these changes in place. Hell, even some terrans have said "patch terran time" or something along those lines. When people of your own race say something like that, you know something is not quite right.
Yes, they do lose marines to banelings when they drop.
And I'm not saying that 2 spines and a queen hold the drop, I'm saying that 2 spines and a queen being there when you drop COMBINED with lings running in will clean up the drop. And you haven't seen spores used??? Really??
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
On December 08 2012 04:48 TheRabidDeer wrote: [quote] On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
No, I am not implying that. In WoL drops were dealt with in the following ways for each race(high level, which you are implying you don't watch): Z Mutas Spores Queens Lings+Infestors Creep spread to spot drops Etc(but never pure lings, in high level TvZ)
Mutas have rarely seen use in ZvT for a long time. I rarely see spores used Queens are obviously used because they can help Lings + infestors is popular, however tons of drops still get through at the professional level Creep spread is cleaned up by decent terrans and rarely reaches points able to spot drops Lings are OFTEN used in high level ZvT because of their speed and they always reach the drop first.
People saying that lings are never used to deal with drops are strange and in denial.
They are used but not alone, usually with Infestors or Banelings.
Just played a really fun TvZ in which my opponent tried to use the old-school rine+medis and nothing else to harass all over the map. Well, guess what?
Mutas are AWESOME now. The faster .25 speed really is noticeable, and catching those medivacs isn't hard at all with them. Also, keeping a viper along for abduction and blinding cloud really works well. And then it's easy to go on the offense, also, because blinding cloud not only works on rines, but turrets, too :D
I'm pretty much convinced that mutas can shut down drops and be used offensively in a very effective way that they weren't able to be used in WoL. This game freaking rocks.
Also: I did use lings and banelings to help shut down the rines. Can't depend on only muta and viper for everything, ya know?
wow. well we finally got the lair tech hydra speed upgrade but...at what cost. playing broodlord infestor is...definitely dead what with the increased viability of thors, stronger drops and the projectile on fungal. really wish they'd kept ultra burrow charge though, as muta-ling into ultra may end up being the new zerg lategame, especially against terran.
most of it seems pretty cool, but I'm not sure I see the need for Phoenix range buffs. seems life they counter mutas a bit too much, but I'm biased as a zerg player. also dark templar buff. really? do we really need to see a bunch more dt rushes? no, no we do not.
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
On December 08 2012 04:48 TheRabidDeer wrote: [quote] On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
No, I am not implying that. In WoL drops were dealt with in the following ways for each race(high level, which you are implying you don't watch): Z Mutas Spores Queens Lings+Infestors Creep spread to spot drops Etc(but never pure lings, in high level TvZ)
Mutas have rarely seen use in ZvT for a long time. I rarely see spores used Queens are obviously used because they can help Lings + infestors is popular, however tons of drops still get through at the professional level Creep spread is cleaned up by decent terrans and rarely reaches points able to spot drops Lings are OFTEN used in high level ZvT because of their speed and they always reach the drop first.
People saying that lings are never used to deal with drops are strange and in denial.
Are you implying that Terran players have been able to drop and do damage over the past year? Are you implying that Zerg is actually not able to defend drops? Are you implying that Zs can't defend drops with just lings anymore, when they clearly don't have any other options? Are you implying that you actually don't know anything about Starcraft 2?
I am implying that T drops were powerful enough without doubling the healing and giving an ability that lets medivacs escape even mutalisks. Drops have consistently done a lot of damage, particularly in the late game when the number of bases increase and the zerg army becomes more immobile (late game zerg units are a fair amount slower than their early units). I am not saying that zerg is unable to defend drops, just that T drops do not need buffs.
Also, before lings could clean up drops by themselves, mutas were brought in to kill the medivacs so they couldnt pick up and escape. Infestors were often used in the same fashion (fungal + 3 IT's then fungal).
On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
On December 08 2012 04:48 TheRabidDeer wrote: [quote] On the test map there is no way to get in the top, I tried to in that clip but lings dont fit. Sending lings around the left side still doesnt clear up the drop either, it does kill a single marine though. I will upload that one.
I agree that the situation isnt realistic, but neither is needing 45 lings to kill a marine drop.
Then don't build melee units to clear up entrechned ranged units.
I am sorry that roaches, banelings and hydras are all too slow to run back to the base for every single drop that occurs which will then escape because of an 80% speed boost ability on short cooldown.
PS: Adrenal lings still lose in the map I posted. Have done several tests and the best case was 3 marines killed with 45 3/3 adrenal lings
Queens, spores and spines all do an adequate job though.
Actually, queens spores and spines all do horribly. They do an adequate job of stalling, but they have to be remade every time and you still have to bring your army back to deal with the drop.
Sigh..this is just stupid. Let's wait a while to really see. You have medivacs and marines vs lings in a bad position. Where's the viper to use blinding cloud on that position? Where's the viper to abduct the medivac outta there? Where are the mutas when they should be sniping the drop in the air? Where are the hydras? Where are the spores? Where are the banelings? Where are the fungals? Where are the corruptors? Where are the infested terran? So many variables you are just ignoring. I never understood testing things like this, when it's really obvious which will win in that situation...
The testing is to show a particular situation which has been a common occurrence throughout WoL. Unless you want to imply that you havent seen a marine/medivac drop in WoL in a ZvT?
I just think that it is a bit of a ridiculous change when medivac drops in WoL were already REALLY strong in pretty much every matchup.
Queen and spore to kill the medivac. Drops are supposed to do dmg or at least force an investment (spors). There is nothing OP there. It's like having 30 marines with their backs to a wall and dyeing to banelings, and crying OP...it's just stupid.
Queen and spore wont kill the medivac unless he doesnt pay attention to the drop at all. Historically, they have not stopped drops.
Do you want to imply you've never seen Zergs split off a few banelings to help with their drop defense, or an infestor, rather than trying to use pure lings? If you add 2 spine crawlers and a queen to that situation (with the queen targeting down the medivac) then it becomes much more reasonable.
In any case, try dropping 4 hellbats in that spot. Then infinity cracklings won't be able to force the medivac to even use any energy. Zerg can't deal with drops using pure ling in HotS. It's not a big deal.
Do you want to imply that terrans lose marines to banelings when they drop? Also, one infestor with queen doesnt stop the drop (assuming the medivac reaches solid ground to unload), nor does 1 queen and 2 spines. Spines (again, historically) dont stop drops but stall them for the army to return.
I dont get how terrans can think that drops are at all balanced with both of these changes in place. Hell, even some terrans have said "patch terran time" or something along those lines. When people of your own race say something like that, you know something is not quite right.
Yes, they do lose marines to banelings when they drop.
And I'm not saying that 2 spines and a queen hold the drop, I'm saying that 2 spines and a queen being there when you drop COMBINED with lings running in will clean up the drop. And you haven't seen spores used??? Really??
I'm a Zerg player, btw.
Strange, most pros that I see pick their drop back up before banelings get to them (and some pros even picking off several banelings through targetting before they do). Are we watching the same professionals? Also, did you not miss the fact that I said spines and queen STALL the drop to let your ARMY get there to defend? Which is exactly what youre saying. And yes, I often dont see spores used to an effect that prevents a drop. I also dont see spores being an effective means with the speed boost ability that will let them get by even 2 spores (and depending on how early the queen gets to them, possibly even 2 spores + queen) now without losing the medivac.
On December 08 2012 05:57 Lobotomist wrote: wow. well we finally got the lair tech hydra speed upgrade but...at what cost. playing broodlord infestor is...definitely dead what with the increased viability of thors, stronger drops and the projectile on fungal. really wish they'd kept ultra burrow charge though, as muta-ling into ultra may end up being the new zerg lategame, especially against terran.
most of it seems pretty cool, but I'm not sure I see the need for Phoenix range buffs. seems life they counter mutas a bit too much, but I'm biased as a zerg player. also dark templar buff. really? do we really need to see a bunch more dt rushes? no, no we do not.
Without the +1 range, pheonix would probably be totaly unusable against buffed mutalisk to be fair
On December 08 2012 05:57 Lobotomist wrote: wow. well we finally got the lair tech hydra speed upgrade but...at what cost. playing broodlord infestor is...definitely dead what with the increased viability of thors, stronger drops and the projectile on fungal. really wish they'd kept ultra burrow charge though, as muta-ling into ultra may end up being the new zerg lategame, especially against terran.
most of it seems pretty cool, but I'm not sure I see the need for Phoenix range buffs. seems life they counter mutas a bit too much, but I'm biased as a zerg player. also dark templar buff. really? do we really need to see a bunch more dt rushes? no, no we do not.
Without the +1 range, pheonix would probably be totaly unusable against buffed mutalisk to be fair
Pheonix are supposed to dominate mutas. It's a hard counter. Just like you dont run marines into 20 sieged tanks you dont run mutas into pheonix. The dt buff is because detection is gained extremely early for every race and is not as all in anymore. You can defend against it much more easily. There'd be no reason to ever go dt first in HoTS if this buff wasn't created.
EPT
