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[TSL] Tyler, Strelok, FruitD, Thorzain Interviews
March 16th, 2011 05:27 GMT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/TSL3_Logo_Banner_1.png)
TSL3 Pre-Round of 32 Interviews Part 1 of 8
We're happy to bring you the first part of our Pre-Round of 32 Interview series with TSL3 players. This part will have interviews with all four players from two of the Day 1 matches: Liquid`Tyler, mouz.Strelok, Prae.ThorZaIN, and TSL_FruitDealer.
TLAF-Liquid`Tyler Protoss Q: You are the defending champion. What do you remember most fondly about your TSL2 winning experience? What are your goals for this tournament?I remember the preparation for each match the most. I loved seeing who my next opponent was and then brainstorming how I was going to approach the match, spending a lot of time working on builds, then practicing the builds against real opponents. It was a scramble to bring out a finished product in time and it was exciting going into each match to see how my plans would work and how well I could execute my builds when the pressure was on. Q: What do you think are your greatest strengths and weaknesses as a player?My greatest strength is my vision. I can always see how to do things better, both strategically and mechanically. While other players are content with being masters at the current level of play, I'm always looking to be the first to make the next improvement. My greatest weakness is my practice routine. If I were locked away in a room where I could only eat, sleep, and practice StarCraft, I'd be a much better player. Of course this is something I'm constantly working on and improving and I admire the folks who have amazing practice routines, even if it comes naturally to them. Q: If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself? Write a few sentences about your personality.I'm very competitive but I get more pleasure from playing the game well than from defeating players and winning tournaments. I love interacting with the community. Q: Your opponent is Strelok, who was a former SC:BW player like yourself. What are your thoughts about him? Are you confident you can win?I respect Strelok. He was a great SC:BW player and he's a great SC2 player. But I think I will win. I'm very comfortable strategically in PvT. I think the games will be decided on mechanics and my mechanics are really good right now! Q: Which other matches are you interested in? Who do you believe will win?I'm mostly interested in the games not involving Koreans. Matches like Ret vs Naniwa, Jinro vs Morrow, and Huk vs Hasuobs, are all matches that could easily be the semifinals or finals of a major tournament. I'm of course cheering for my teammates and think they will win all their matches. I'm also looking forward to some really refined strategies and plans since players have a lot of time to prepare for a specific player, matchup and map set. Q: Many fans are predicting the Koreans to dominate this tournament. Which player do you believe will be "upset" first?I don't think Boxer will make it to the Ro16. TLO may upset NaDa but it's going to be a very tough match. Q: Your road to the finals is a hard one -- you could face up to 3 GSL champions. Other than yourself, who would you predict to make the finals?I think MC and Nestea are the favorites for the finals. Q: Do you have anything to say to your fans and supporters before the Round of 32?Thanks so much for the videos, the fan art and the comments. Not only will I win in the Round of 32, I will show everyone that I have what it takes to win the whole thing.
mouz.Strelok Terran Q: You were the last player to qualify, winning 3-0 over Select. How did you feel about the qualifiers? I played very bad in the qualifiers and shouldn't have qualified. But someone somewhere decided that I deserved a chance and gave me a tie-break. So I was motivated to prove that I deserved it, and I am very happy to qualify for the main event. Q: Your first round opponent is last season's champion, Liquid`Tyler. At Assembly you went 1-2 against Tyler. Are you feeling more prepared this time? How do you feel about him and are you confident you can win?In Finland after the first day of LAN-event, I went shopping and got flu. The second day it was really hard to play vs Tyler, I was even happy that I lost and didn't need to play more. However, this time it will be different. Q: Three mouz players made it in -- Morrow, HasuObs, and yourself. All three of you are playing Liquid` players. How do feel your team will do?From the spectator's view, we all are underdogs with almost the same chance. 40 to 60. Everything else will depend on preparation. Q: How do you think the international players will do against the Koreans and other invites? Which of the Korean invites do you feel is likely to be "upset" first?First of all I want to say I really don't like the invites system of TSL. They invited everyone: previous winner in SC:BW, Koreans, non-Korean guys who live in Korea. It's good that at least some spots left for qualifiers (sarcasm). I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community, or they should invite only true Koreans and let the foreigners in Korea qualify themselves. Sixteen invites for the TSL 32-man tournament -- it is really way too many. Socke, Mana, Sjow, Tarson just to mention few who deserve to be there, but couldn't qualify because of a very hard system of qualifications. And so many people got it simply for free. Now to answer your question: I am sure Nightend will win against Boxer. For me it's not an upset, but I am pretty sure for the majority of community it will be. Also I am absolutely sure that Kas will beat Haypro. In other matches invitees have at least 50% or better chances. Generally, Koreans will do very well and the only reason why they won't make Top 4 is that the right part of grid has only one good Korean, while the left part has four. Sorry, Boxer fans. I do love Boxer, but my pick is NightEnd. And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net. Q: If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself? Write a few sentences about your personality.Lazy hardworker. And yes i know that those things are quite opposite =). I know that laziness is my main problem, but if I am interested in something - I will work 24/7 to succeed in it. Q: What do you think are your greatest strengths and weaknesses as a player?I depend on mood a lot. That is why I struggle to play one-play-per-a-day tournament, because I can't be in a good mood all the time. When I have the right mood -- I can easily play very well. Q: Which other matches are you interested in? Who do you believe will win?For me the most interesting match is White-Ra against Loner. This is a game where great creativity plays against very strong standard play. I will watch Nightend vs Boxer for sure, but I fear it will be painful to watch, as always, when a legend loses. Also TLO vs Nada can be kind of interesting but only if TLO plays Terran. Q: Do you have anything to say to your fans and supporters before the Round of 32?I want to say huge thanks to people who helped me to prepare for Select. Special thanks goes to BratOK and Kas who really treated to this match as it is their own. And it will sound a-little-Korean-style but I will practice hard and do all I can to win against Tyler!
Prae.ThorZaIN Terran Q: You qualified by winning TSL Qualifier #5. What are your thoughts on the qualification process? Have you been practicing hard since then?The qualification process was good, giving many players quite some time to prove themselves through the points system and still allowing for some "surprise-qualifiers" through the tournament winner system. When I qualified, I kept on practicing as usual. When I found out my opponent, I started to practice more in order to beat just that player. I’ve been playing a lot lately. Q: Your first round opponent is the GSL Open Season 1 champion TSL_FruitDealer. What do you think of him as a player? How do you think your opponent will play?FruitDealer is a GSL champion and obviously a great player. He has his ups and downs however and didn’t seem to play superbly well the last couple of GSLs. As a player I know that he is capable of playing a lot of different styles, from macro games to baneling busts to 6 pools, which makes it hard to prepare for him. Q: How confident are you that you can win? Will you have something special prepared for FruitDealer?I’m definitely the underdog, and rightfully so. In my practice games however, I’ve won like 90% of my games, so I feel pretty comfortable against Zerg atm. I hope to at least put up a fight! I have prepared, but I don’t know if it’s anything special per se. Q: How do you think the international players will do against the Koreans and other invites? Which of the Korean invites do you feel is likely to be "upset" first?If I got this question prior the the IEM World Championships in Cologne, I would have said that I think that the European and American players are pretty on par with the Koreans with just the slightest difference in skills. But now after that tournament I’m convinced that the Koreans are a bit more ahead of us than that, and it will be hard for foreigners to go far. But it's definitely not impossible. Q: If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself?I’m a friendly guy who strives to get better at everything I do, be it StarCraft II, school or sports. I like challenges and to prove people wrong ^^. Q: What do you think are your greatest strengths and weaknesses as a player?I’m a pretty well rounded player skill-wise. I have good micro, macro and strategic knowledge of the game. I think about my play A LOT. My weaknesses I think are that I’m not varying my style enough, and knowing when to attack and where in TvT. I also play too little  . Q: Which other matches are you interested in? Who do you believe will win?I’m super hyped about the MorroW Vs. JinrO match. Both incredibly strong players, and both are Swedes. I guess that JinrO is the favourite but I would definitely not be surprised if MorroW was able to take this. I’m also excited about NesTea vs GoOdY. NesTea is a formidable player (best Zerg IMO), and GoOdY having his own playstyle. I’m interested in seeing how NesTea deals with it. Q: Do you have anything to say to your fans and supporters before the Round of 32?I just hope you tune in on the 19th and cheer for me! Be there or be square! ^_^
TSL_FruitDealer Zerg Korean Version: + Show Spoiler [Korean Version - 한국어 원문] +안녕하세요? TeamLiquid Starleague 3에 환영합니다. 어떤 이유로 TSL3 초대를 승락하게 되었습니까? 대회 초대 받기 전에 TeamLiquid.net에 대해 들어본적이 있었습니까? 이번 대회의 목표는 무엇입니까?
최근 너무 부진한성적때문에 팬분들에게 좋은게임을보여준적이 없다고생각됩니다. TSL에서 좋은성적으로 팬분들에게 보답도하고싶고 개인적으로 요즘너무부진하기때문에 기회로 만들고싶어서 참가하게됐습니다. 팀리퀴드는 아주오래전부터알고있엇습니다. 이번대회목표는 최소 4강으로잡고있습니다.
GSL을 시청하고 스타2에 관심을 갖고있는 해외팬들을 어떻게 생각합니까? 해외팬들에게 전할 말이 있다면?
요즘 너무부진해서 민망할뿐이지만, 열심히하고있습니다 조만간 좋은경기로 찾아뵙겠습니다
한국 프로게이머들은 외국 대회를 많이 인지하고 있습니까? 예를 들어 미국, 유럽 지역에 IEM이나 MLG처럼 큰 규모의 대회가 많은데, 미래에 참여하고 싶습니까?
해외에서 하는대회들 나가고싶습니다. 블리즈컨때 경험해봤던게 있기때문에 해외대회에대해서 아주긍정적입니다
비한국인 선수중에서 잘하는 선수가 누가 있습니까? 이중에서 경기를 해보고 싶은 선수가 있다면?
아무래도 GSL에서 활약하고있는 진로선수 아닐까생각합니다. morrow선수와 경기해보고싶습니다
대회 첫 상대가 Prae.Thorzain, 스웨덴의 테란 선수입니다. 상대에 대해 어떤 정보를 가지고 있습니까? 경기를 위해 어떤 준비를 할것이며, 이길 자신이 있습니까?
아무런정보가없는상태입니다. 테란전은 실수하면 패배할수있기때문에 상대방의 전략을 중점으로 상대할생각입니다. 이길수있다고생각합니다
한국 선수와 외국 선수의 경기 스타일이 많이 다릅니까? 다르다면 어떤 면에서 다릅니까?
많이 경기를 해보지않아서 모르겠습니다
GSL 오픈 1시즌을 우승했는데, 팬분들께서는 아직도 우승에대해 좋은 추억을 많이가지고 있습니다. 하지만 이후에 조금 침체된 모습입니다. 단지 운이 안 좋은건가요? 아니면 Code S가 어려워진것입니까?
제가 잘못했다고 생각합니다. 이번 TSL대회에서 예전모습을 찾을려고 최선을 다할것입니다
김원기 선수의 경기를 처음보는 스타2 팬에게 자신을 소개한다면?
한국TSL팀에 속해있는 저그유저 김원기 라고합니다 요즘은 많이부진해서 임팩트가없을수도있지만 앞으로 저를기억하신다면 좋은경기로 답해드리겠습니다
이번 대회 우승 후보로는 누가 있습니까? 그리고 한국인 선수들의 외국 최상급 선수 상대로의 성적을 예상해본다면?
아마 제가우승할거같습니다(--) 4강에 2명이상의 한국인선수는 올라갈것같습니다 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/FDinterview.jpg) Q: Welcome to the TSL3 tournament! Have you heard of TeamLiquid before? What made you decide to accept your invite? What are your goals for the TSL3?I’ve played very poorly lately, and haven’t been able to show any my fans any good games. I decided to participate in the TSL because I wanted to try and repay my fans with some good tournament results, and I personally wanted an opportunity since I’ve been doing so poorly. I’ve known about TeamLiquid since very long ago. My goal for this tournament is a top four finish. Q: What do you think of the international fans who watch GSL and follow Starcraft? Do you have anything to say to them?I’m embarrassed because I’ve been doing so poorly, but I’m trying hard. I hope I can show people some good games soon. Q: Do you think Korean Pro-gamers are more aware of international events? There are many big events like IEM and MLG with big prizes in America and Europe. Would you like to go to any of them in the future?I’d like to compete in some overseas tournaments. My experience from Blizzcon makes me think very positively about foreign tournaments. Q: Who do you feel are the best non-Korean players? Who have you heard of and who do you wish to play against?I suppose it would have to be Jinro, who is competing in GSL. Of the foreign players, I’d like to face Morrow. Q: Your opponent is Prae.Thorzain, a Terran from Sweden. Do you know anything about him? How will you prepare for him? Are you confident you will win?I have no information about him whatsoever. Since a single mistake can cost you the game in ZvT, I’ll be focusing on preparing against my opponent’s strategic play. I think I can win. Q: You won the first GSL and many fans have very pleasant memories about that. Since then however you have not had as much success. Is it bad luck? Is Code S becoming harder to win?I think it’s all my fault. I’ll do my best to recover my old form in the TSL. Q: If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself? Write a few sentences about your personality.Hello, my name is Kim Won Ki and I am a Zerg player for the TSL team. I might not seem so important because I haven’t been doing so great lately, but if you keep an eye on me from now on, I’ll repay it with quality games. Q: Who do you believe will win the TSL3? How do you feel the Koreans will do against the best international players?I think I’ll win -_- I think there will be two Koreans or more in the top four.
Stay tuned for interviews with the other Round of 32 players in the next few days!
This TSL is sponsored by PokerStrategy.com, the world's largest poker school and community. With hundreds of Poker VODs and an assortment of learning material in 18 different languages, PokerStrategy.com offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to a professional level. Sign up using TL's referral link.
By signing up, you can also enter the TSL3 Raffle, where you can win a 5-night trip to South Korea for 2 people to watch StarCraft live in person and tour the oGs-Liquid house.
Discuss with other fans in the TSL3 Forum.
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Wow! I never thought you'd be presenting interviews of each players before each match. Awesome, just awesome.
It really helps getting to know players, props TL.
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Amazing once again! TL you cease to amaze with your content.
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wow FD is looking forward to play with Morrow. That's sick. Didn't know Koreans were paying close attention to foreigner scene.
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Thank you so much for these interviews! hype!
I like Fruit's answer to "who do you wish to play against?"
Of the foreign players, I’d like to face Morrow.
FRUITDEALER FIGHTING ! I'm still a huge fan despite recent results
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Whoa, FD in more international tourneys! That's awesome!
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Nice interviews. I hope to see Tyler and FruitD win!
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Wow great interviews, love how honest Strelok was in his really shows that he is passionate about his opinion. Tyler your my guy for this thing GL this weekend and i hope you one day achieve a practice regiment that you can be proud of.
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wow, fruitdealer is so modest.
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United States4714 Posts
Awesome job by TL. I am really looking forward to reading all the koreans interviews and their views on TL/foreigners.
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I tend to agree with Strelok actually.. too many Korean invites, I would probably prefer a strictly "foreigner" tournament
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Hype!!!! Oh my god I'm getting so pumped for this.
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I don't see why everyone thinks that a korean will win this, the only reason you have to support this is IEM results, of which neither Moon, Ace, or Squirtle will be participating in this tournament. There are some sick players from GSL in this one, but no reason to think this will be "korean favoured", at least from my perspective. In any case this should be pretty awesome, looking forward to it!
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Fruitdealer to humiliate thorzain and tyler to play solid as usual and take down strelok in a close series!
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hype hype hype! like bart scott... CANT WAIT
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Wow great interviews! Really nice to get this insight before the games, both of these match ups will be really fun to watch!
Thorzain is definitely the underdog, but his TvZ is really good and it'll be a lot harder (I think) for FD to prepare for him than vice versa.
Today's Up/Down Matches: + Show Spoiler +But the way FD played in the up/down matches today...wow. Thorzain has his work cut out for him.
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You see why Koreans are so good when you see how much he criticizes himself.
Still rooting for non-Koreans.
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On March 16 2011 14:44 Jesushooves wrote: I don't see why everyone thinks that a korean will win this, the only reason you have to support this is IEM results, of which neither Moon, Ace, or Squirtle will be participating in this tournament. There are some sick players from GSL in this one, but no reason to think this will be "korean favoured", at least from my perspective. In any case this should be pretty awesome, looking forward to it!
"Korean favoured" doesn't have to necessarily mean a Korean will win. However, TL spared no expense and invited literally the best of the best of the Korean scene. Moon, Ace, and Squirtle, while showing amazing play at IEM, barely cracked the surface of Code A before being knocked out.
That said, I think there will be a lot of upsets (BoxeR, Genius, etc.) but when the dust settles the ro8 and ro4 will be fairly predictable. Some all-star Koreans and some very solid NA/EU players. Either way, they're bound to be exciting games and I can't wait!
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Fruitdealer's interview seemed pretty sparse. I'm sure he will still take TSL seriously though... he has a lot to prove.
Nony fighting! Thanks TL for the tournament, the hype, and the interviews!
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Great interviews.
I can't wait to get all the other korean's perspective. It's rare that we get to hear them talk about events outside of korea that are important to us.
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Fruitdealer shouldn't be so hard on himself. :[ I am really excited for these games!
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Tyler Fighting ^^
I hope Fruitdealer can pull out some really good games, he was SO good in the first GSL! I hope to see him in form again, though I'm still rooting for tyler in the Ro16 match (assuming both players make it there).
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Great stuff, want more shit-talk next time though. Add a shit-talk question to the interview! 8D
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Is it me or doesnt Strelok seem a bit pissed O.o
I love the interviews so keep them coming!
Also, FD seems to be having a tough time with his slump : (
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Man, Fruitdealer is so modest!
(On a side note, everytime I read TSL (the Korean team) I think about the TSL tourney >< )
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I think there will be two Koreans or more in the top four. Sad but true I can see MVP, MC, and Nestea taking top 3.
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God I'm getting so hyped. Really nice to have these interviews, especially Thorzain's since I didn't know anything about him and he seems like a really good guy.
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Great interviews, can't wait to see the rest for all the other players. Really hope Tyler gets enough practice and gets his BW form back and dominates everyone.
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i dont agree with strelok. we or at least me, wants to see the best of the best playing around the world. same as in soccer or other big sport events. its like saying, i dont want brasil and argentina playing in world cup, if you want to see messi playing watch go south america...
the way he says that makes me think. it seems like he is afraid of koreans or maybe racist against them. i dont understand why people say that again and again. to be best at this game there should be the best players involved. its just good for the game in the long term...or it will disappear soon, coz i get bored of it already
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Strelok is shit. He will get knock OUT first IMO.
Koreans Fighting.
User was warned for this post
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I don't know how true it is but I get the feeling that the general thought amongst a lot of European players is that Koreans are overrated. Like they're almost jealous of the spotlight put on them... I dunno... Just a thought...
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Oh god these were awesome, its cool that fruitdealer knows morrow:D, also streloks quote of "Lazy hardworker. And yes i know that those things are quite opposite =). I know that laziness is my main problem, but if I am interested in something - I will work 24/7 to succeed in it." describes me personally:D
Also I think anyone with practice partners of kas and bratok could beat select, holy shit
So excited!!!!
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Yea, strelok is being stupid. "If you want to watch korean, go to gomtv"?? seriously, gomtv is koreans vs koreans. This is exciting because it is koreans vs top hero foreigners. If you want to watch foreigner only tournmanet thers TONS out there, but few koreans vs foreigners like FXO
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On March 16 2011 15:18 dennistoo wrote: Strelok is shit. He will get knock OUT first IMO.
Koreans Fighting.
he is not shit but he will get knocked out soon hopefully
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I am getting so hyped for this. I'm cutting into the few hours of sleep I might get before work just to read this the moment it came up.
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On March 16 2011 14:34 AlBundy wrote:Thank you so much for these interviews! hype! I like Fruit's answer to "who do you wish to play against?" FRUITDEALER FIGHTING ! I'm still a huge fan despite recent results 
haha, he wants to play MorroW because he knows about the Swede's current ZvZ skills :D
But I definitely think MorroW is a beast of a player and once he gets a chance to practice with some zergs he will be dominant in that matchup like the two others.
Great Interviews! Nice to match a personality with the names.
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I hope all the Koreans destroy the non Koreans so the non Koreans realize their practice regiment is what's holding them back, not their nationality.
I hope the non Koreans face stomp the Koreans so people will stop saying being Korean makes you better at video games.
Liquid Tyler fighting
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wow strelok sure is salty
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Strelok just lost a fan. His explanation was very negative and biased(although this is somewhat understandable). He's throwing assumptions left and right. He needs to go. Poor sport.
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Obviously the players in the tournament are not too fond of having to play Koreans, seeing as they're fighting them for the prize money. However, for the spectator it makes for a much more competitive and exciting event.
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While i like that he is willing to voice his opinions i have to disagree with Strelok. The koreans and the TL guys are the players im excited to see playing, you often dont notice it because both players have less stuff but the koreans are much more refined on the whole. I do think players like MC are going to suffer in TVP for example though as he is so dependent on perfect force fields which is impossible cross server.
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HYPE HYPE HYPE
TSL2 was awesome and this will be no different. Go foreigners! Let's upset some koreans!
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Thank you so much for the interviews! I love all of the content we're getting for TSL3! <3
I'm quite amused that Strelok made a comment about answering a part of a question "Korean-style" and then FruitDealer pretty much answered every single question in the same way with that type of expected answer, lol.
I partly agree with Strelok, but I think that TSL was aiming to be more than just a "Western" tournament, so he's not entirely looking at it from the right perspective.
Very worried about BoxeR. Like everyone else, I want him to win really badly because . . . well . . . he's BoxeR! But + Show Spoiler +going down to Code A makes me worry a lot about his current skill level and level of preparedness.
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FruitDealer is so nice and restrained (two or more in top four) haha. GL to all players!
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On March 16 2011 15:18 SeraKuDA wrote: I don't know how true it is but I get the feeling that the general thought amongst a lot of European players is that Koreans are overrated. Like they're almost jealous of the spotlight put on them... I dunno... Just a thought...
Yeah, they seem to have their superiority complex crushed by cold hard facts. Strelok is being a B@¢¤@
``The foreigners aren`t so far away, we`re on par``
''They should have this a non-asian community tournament''
Man, first and foremost, that`s a contradicting statement, and also, what does that mean, a non asian tournament?? If SelecT or KawaiiRice or Sjow whose half asian qualify,what happen? They`re not from Asia but they`re asian? A bigotted statement, that`s all it is. The community is based on the Korea SC culture. All the slangs are from Korean reference, you want to take them all as well to replace them with whiter terms maybe?
When you read Fruit`s interview, you see the difference: A guy who`s hard on himself, and not a slacker with talent. It`s always the same thing. Guillaume Patry, he was the most talented guy in the begining of SC:BW, he made me think of Tyler in fact (Well, it;s the opposite but whatever), both werent practicing enough, and when the hardworking AND talented guy started to appear, he faded away after a year or so.
Strelok`s gonna get crushed, utterly. I read Fruit`s word and man, you got to like a guy like that. Props to Thorzain for being humble in his skills as well.
Fruitdealer fighting!! And Tyler,crush that Chobo.
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On March 16 2011 14:44 RogueStatus wrote: I tend to agree with Strelok actually.. too many Korean invites, I would probably prefer a strictly "foreigner" tournament
I think the only problem with that is then it feels like you're not inviting the best of the best. I understand the sentiment of wanting to watch more foreign players, but i think a tournament loses some "credibility" in terms of being a globally competitive tournament if it doesn't include koreans. Perhaps there are too many korean invites but then again quite a few of them are foreigners in korea so i don't think it's Too bad.
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Great interviews! Man the guys putting on the TSL really know how to hype a tourney up!
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Plssss!!! Let it be less than 3 Koreans in top4!!!
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Aww I felt sorry for FruitDealer in that interview. Just kept putting himself down 
You'll do just fine in TSL3 mate FruitDealer fighting!
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On March 16 2011 15:38 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 15:18 SeraKuDA wrote: I don't know how true it is but I get the feeling that the general thought amongst a lot of European players is that Koreans are overrated. Like they're almost jealous of the spotlight put on them... I dunno... Just a thought... Yeah, they seem to have their superiority complex crushed by cold hard facts. Strelok is being a B@¢¤@ ``The foreigners aren`t so far away, we`re on par`` ''They should have this a non-asian community tournament'' Man, first and foremost, that`s a contradicting statement, and also, what does that mean, a non asian tournament?? If SelecT or KawaiiRice or Sjow whose half asian qualify,what happen? They`re not from Asia but they`re asian? A bigotted statement, that`s all it is. The community is based on the Korea SC culture. All the slangs are from Korean reference, you want to take them all as well to replace them with whiter terms maybe? When you read Fruit`s interview, you see the difference: A guy who`s hard on himself, and not a slacker with talent. It`s always the same thing. Guillaume Patry, he was the most talented guy in the begining of SC:BW, he made me think of Tyler in fact (Well, it;s the opposite but whatever), both werent practicing enough, and when the hardworking AND talented guy started to appear, he faded away after a year or so. Strelok`s gonna get crushed, utterly. I read Fruit`s word and man, you got to like a guy like that. Props to Thorzain for being humble in his skills as well. Fruitdealer fighting!! And Tyler,crush that Chobo. Uh what? Strelok didn't say anything about non-Koreans being on par with Koreans. You just made up a quote and then claimed that it contradicts his wish for a non-Asian tournament.
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10387 Posts
Just because of Strelok's stupid comments, I'm hoping for this tournament to be dominated by Koreans. Foreigners moved to SC2 because they saw that they would finally have equal footing with the Koreans and more money potential, but now that the Korean practice regime is finally starting to show results (i.e., IEM, FXOpen), people are calling for tournaments that exclude Koreans because they're afraid of it being like BW all over again
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Don't really care much for Strelok now after reading his interview. I'm hear to watch the TSL to see the BEST players in the world compete. If I really wanted to see subpar non-Korean players compete I'd go watch one of the many, many insignificant and boring tournaments out there. I stopped watching the majority of foreigner tournaments months ago simply because the games were utterly terrible. TSL is special because it wants to have the absolute best players, with a meaningful prize pool, and stellar production.
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not to derail or anything but i completely agree with strelok. the appeal of the BW TSLs for me was having a tournament with a lot of money for the best non-koreans with an unmatched production quality for its time. i'm really gonna feel bad if koreans wreak havoc on this tournament
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Strelok didn't get it... what makes TSL even more special is that you can see foreigners vs koreans. if it was only about foreigners, it wouldn't be that much awesome.
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You guys sure know how to hype an event! Fantastic interviews! With the element of surprise I think Thorzain v FD series might actually be really entertaining. Since at times FD is his own worst enemy anyways.
Our protoss hero feeling confident and clearly knows how to practice for this event is ready to stomp Strelok. Which is great because after that interview by Strelok, I'm not a fan.
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I cant see the reason why Strelok complains about the invited guess, to make TSL a world-class tournament this is really what the organizer boards should do, what he complain is just like we Asia complain about the number of Europe or SA team can join the World Cup. Also many Korean great player has been left out as well (talking July or Lyn, or even Ace (IEM winner)). Im glad to see the lvl of the tournament reaching this high, been counting down the days for this ^^. Gogo FD
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In short, the whites are afraid of taking on the koreans. Enough said.
If you want it, prove it. SLACKERSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
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thanks for the great interviews! Hoping for some exciting games
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Fruit Dealer hero zerg of the world I'm pretty excited.
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i think people are being way too harsh on strelok.. i thought he was just expressing his frustration with the fact that they hand out 16 invites to players while the 16 qualifiers have to play their hearts out weekend after weekend to get in and then players like socke mana etc dont make it in because tl is going out of its way to invite korean players instead. also i'm pretty sure his explanation of wanting to see the foreigners duke it out is because tsl is team liquid star league and has always been a competition between the members of the tl community to see who was the best, not the best in the world.
these mob cries of racism seem unwarranted to me.. seems like he worded it poorly but it hardly seems like it has something to do with not liking koreans or fearing them..
also we all know that tl invited the people they did specifically because they couldn't participate in the tl opens but the fact remains that the tl opens were very difficult to win, took up a lot of time, and had a lot of variance due to the format of so many bo1s and then having so many players in each tournament. both sides are of the argument are reasonable but nowhere does strelok say anything about not wanting the koreans because 4/4 of the semifinalists will be korean or anything.
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On March 16 2011 16:07 NonSenSeWins wrote: i think people are being way too harsh on strelok.. i thought he was just expressing his frustration with the fact that they hand out 16 invites to players while the 16 qualifiers have to play their hearts out weekend after weekend to get in and then players like socke mana etc dont make it in because tl is going out of its way to invite korean players instead. also i'm pretty sure his explanation of wanting to see the foreigners duke it out is because tsl is team liquid star league and has always been a competition between the members of the tl community to see who was the best, not the best in the world.
these mob cries of racism seem unwarranted to me.. seems like he worded it poorly but it hardly seems like it has something to do with not liking koreans or fearing them..
absolutely agree, especially with the bit about members of the tl community. clearly TL wants to expand the TSL beyond this scope, which is absolutely fine, but i think strelok's frustration (and, to some degree, mine) are completely justified and not xenophobic
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ok, nony's interview got me hype, hopefully his play will deliver
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Well I guess we know FruitDealer is hoping to give us good games. I would like to see Koreans show some personality in their interviews instead of being so modest and giving the exact same answers as every other Korean.
NOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYY
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On March 16 2011 15:48 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 15:38 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:On March 16 2011 15:18 SeraKuDA wrote: I don't know how true it is but I get the feeling that the general thought amongst a lot of European players is that Koreans are overrated. Like they're almost jealous of the spotlight put on them... I dunno... Just a thought... Yeah, they seem to have their superiority complex crushed by cold hard facts. Strelok is being a B@¢¤@ ``The foreigners aren`t so far away, we`re on par`` ''They should have this a non-asian community tournament'' Man, first and foremost, that`s a contradicting statement, and also, what does that mean, a non asian tournament?? If SelecT or KawaiiRice or Sjow whose half asian qualify,what happen? They`re not from Asia but they`re asian? A bigotted statement, that`s all it is. The community is based on the Korea SC culture. All the slangs are from Korean reference, you want to take them all as well to replace them with whiter terms maybe? When you read Fruit`s interview, you see the difference: A guy who`s hard on himself, and not a slacker with talent. It`s always the same thing. Guillaume Patry, he was the most talented guy in the begining of SC:BW, he made me think of Tyler in fact (Well, it;s the opposite but whatever), both werent practicing enough, and when the hardworking AND talented guy started to appear, he faded away after a year or so. Strelok`s gonna get crushed, utterly. I read Fruit`s word and man, you got to like a guy like that. Props to Thorzain for being humble in his skills as well. Fruitdealer fighting!! And Tyler,crush that Chobo. Uh what? Strelok didn't say anything about non-Koreans being on par with Koreans. You just made up a quote and then claimed that it contradicts his wish for a non-Asian tournament.
Opps my bad, he got me so pissed, i think it was Thorzain who said something of this nature. But the Asian portion of the statement was bigotted regardless. You can be an asian foreigner.
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Really didn't like Strelok's interview, he comes off as a complete ass. Won't bother to list all that bothered me but one bit:
I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net.
It isn't "usual games of Koreans," it's just a few Koreans playing against mostly foreigners. Practically everyone wants to see how the top foreigners can do against the best in the world, and this TSL will finally set the stage for it.
As for those who he felt deserved to be there -
Socke, Mana, Sjow, Tarson just to mention few These guys are good, but none would draw a crowd anywhere near the likes of FruitDealer, NesTea, MC, Mvp, Boxer etc would. In fact, I wouldn't be very excited at all were it not for all the Korean invites (including IdrA, Jinro etc), would not have even have bothered to watch most of it.
If he or anyone wants to watch non-Koreans play exclusively, there are more than enough tournaments out there for him.
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really appreciate these interviews. gives a whole new awareness to the matchup
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I've to say I sympathize with Strelok's point about the invitees, but only because some of them definitely did not deserve to be invited based on results. This would have been less significant if the qualifying players didn't have to play their hearts out to qualify.
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Excited for TSL because of all the big names coming together. Strelok seemed really angry, although its slightly understandable but the Koreans are those who have placed extremely well in past GSLs, although not going through the TL qualifiers I think that doing well in the GSL should qualify them to be in this tournament. Hope to see Koreans do well just to show him.
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I thought Strelok's interview was cocky sounding and I didn't appreciate it. I appreciated all the invites to the tournament and I thought the qualifiers were extremely open. I was neutral on him until now, but I now look forward to Tyler Demolishing him.
Hoping for some Korean upsets as well. I think some of our foreigners (read: Idra, TLO, Jinro, Huk, Ret and maybe a few others... look for a possible QXC v. Genius upset as Genius hasn't been playing well lately) have legitimate potential to knock out Korean players.
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On March 16 2011 14:52 SiguR wrote: Great interviews.
I can't wait to get all the other korean's perspective. It's rare that we get to hear them talk about events outside of korea that are important to us.
what this man said^
i'd also like to reiterate the statement about great interviews. keep em comin!
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Streloks comments weren't bigotted, they were more to the point that the Asian community has its own scene and hasnt really shown much interest in the western scene, so he feels they should do their thing and we can do ours, instead it feels to him like we're rolling out the red carpet for these guys while euros grind it out in the coal mines that were the TSL quals.
Understandable... but GUESS WHAT Strelok? These are the players that everybody wants to see, these are the matches everybody wants to see, and this is the tournament the fans have been waiting for for a long time! CANT WAIT!
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Great read, I wish fruitdealer all the best :D. I hope lag wont be an issue. Also very much agree that getting to know how the koreans feel about western tournaments is very valuable ^^. TL fighting~
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Gogo fruitdealer
Just went back to read Strelok's interview, will not be rooting for this guy.
Don't know why he would comment about others' matches, especially Boxer. I hope he realizes that him being a pro is very much thanks to Boxer's popularity helping Esport grows in the past and even now with his Intel Razor Sponsors.
Show some respect.
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I'm not exactly sure if Strelok understands how much work it is to be in the Korean seen, code A and code S. The qualifiers for code A are extremely difficult, showing that those in code S really are some of the top players from Korea that I think are more than qualified to participate in the TSL.
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Clearly Strelok is afraid of the Korean players.
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Strelok gained a fan! Nice to see someone with a little bit of personality. Fruitdealers interview was so typical lol. Seriously, so tired of this bullshit "I will practice hard and try to impress with my games." It's boring as hell.
So much qq in this thread about Strelok when he is the only one who said anything interesting. Even if you disagree, at least he said something different.
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On March 16 2011 16:57 zerglingsfolife wrote: Strelok gained a fan! Nice to see someone with a little bit of personality. Fruitdealers interview was so typical lol. Seriously, so tired of this bullshit "I will practice hard and try to impress with my games." It's boring as hell.
So much qq in this thread about Strelok when he is the only one who said anything interesting. Even if you disagree, at least he said something different.
Fruit is a sincere and appreciative guy due to his rather unfortunate and humbled life. As for Strelok, if you prefer implicit prejudice then I guess hes the man for you.
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I can't believe people are that skeptical about Boxer.
Sure he probably won't win TSL or go very far in it, but Nightend definitely isn't the sort of player that can be a favorite against him just yet. I can't imagine why people would favor Nightend over any of the Code S or Code A GSL players. Or even most top foreigners for that matter.
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All due respect to Strelok, he is entitled to his opinion but I disagree. If we wanted to watch a westerner dominated tournament, there's always MLG. GSL only gives us Koreans vs Jinro or Huk. TSL gives us insane Korean vs non-Korean matchups we wouldn't ever see otherwise. It's the Teamliquid starleague. Every Korean invite is more popular on TL than Strelok is.
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wow, I really hope Tyler stomps all over Strelok now. What a poor attitude about the TSL. Apparently he has missed out on all the announcement threads for the Korean invites, because every single other spectator is fucking excited to see Koreans vs. non-Koreans.
My favorite part of these interviews, Fruitdealer totally disproving Strelok's comment:
Strelok: "...Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament."
FruitDealer: "I’d like to compete in some overseas tournaments. My experience from Blizzcon makes me think very positively about foreign tournaments."
Good interview from ThorZaiN, I hope he does well vs. FD.
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On March 16 2011 15:51 benjammin wrote:not to derail or anything but i completely agree with strelok. the appeal of the BW TSLs for me was having a tournament with a lot of money for the best non-koreans with an unmatched production quality for its time. i'm really gonna feel bad if koreans wreak havoc on this tournament
In BW even the best foreigners would have been curbstomped by Korean b teamers. With SC2, although there is a gap, it isn't nearly as big. TSL3 will be the first true test of the difference in skill between Koreans and non-Koreans.
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If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability...
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A very small part of me agrees with Strelok in that some of the "Korean" invites don't deserve their invitations (the two that he named i agree with). However, the rest of me wishes he would make it to the next round or was playing a korean to start off with to see him get stomped on.
Great job with the interviews and i am really looking forward to hearing more from the rest of the players about their thoughts on this tournament. I am amped for this, 3 more days!
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I want to see foreigners beating Koreans. Without this I would rather watch TLO vs morrow on youtube.
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i love this type of hype building. Cant wait to see the actual games. I have to agree with Strelok on the TSL should be non korean thing but the way it is now a non korean win would be ever so epic. Tyler fighting!!!!!
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I'm probably gonna root for Strelok. His interview actually makes sense.
Seriously... A 32 Man tournament with that many invites just does not feel right. It doesn't even matter if they are Koreans or not, some of the other invites are even more "questionable".
The amount of invites is just too big. I see 0 reasons to have Huk there but not Mana or Socke, Sjow. There are also about ZERO justifiable reasons to have Haypro there from what he has shown, if he wouldn't be on Liquid, he would not be in this tournament, he would probably not even make it in to cnbc (i really hope he will do good, i really, really do ).
I just think this takes away from what this tournament could have been and adds about nothing.
SOME invites (people that did really good in GSL's for isntance like Idra, Jinro, MC and Nestea) would be perfectly fine, many others just seem forced to generate hype or are fan favorites (Boxer, some liquid guys).
Invites are not bad, there are just to many and to many not logical invites.
A Grand Slam Tennis tourney is also not inviting Becker/Sampras/McEnroe just because they generate Hype (hi Boxer).
If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability...
Lol, seriously? Money.
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On March 16 2011 17:10 kenkaze291 wrote: If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability...
Strelok said many Koreans not all. And do you honestly think they would have got all the big names without the $$$ on the line? There's one reason for you. Also what is with several people calling Strelok racist? Wtf...
Also I agree with Strelok on that there were too many invites. I have no problem with having Koreans in the tournament or invites, but considering the qualifying process having half invites is too much imo.
That said, I'm still looking forward to the tournament a great deal.
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Is it just me or do koreans suck at interviews? It may be the language barrier, but most of FD's answers are shorter then the questions.
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On March 16 2011 17:02 red4ce wrote: All due respect to Strelok, he is entitled to his opinion but I disagree. If we wanted to watch a westerner dominated tournament, there's always MLG. GSL only gives us Koreans vs Jinro or Huk. TSL gives us insane Korean vs non-Korean matchups we wouldn't ever see otherwise. It's the Teamliquid starleague. Every Korean invite is more popular on TL than Strelok is. QFT, I'm way more hyped about watching those top Koreans compete in the TSL than some of the random foreigners that I honestly don't care about. E.g. a Cruncher vs Ciara finals would be so boring compared to something like Nada vs Nestea.
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On March 16 2011 17:24 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:10 kenkaze291 wrote: If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability... Strelok said many Koreans not all. And do you honestly think they would have got all the big names without the $$$ on the line? There's one reason for you. Also what is with several people calling Strelok racist? Wtf... Also I agree with Strelok on that there were too many invites. I have no problem with having Koreans in the tournament or invites, but considering the qualifying process having half invites is too much imo. That said, I'm still looking forward to the tournament a great deal.
This TSL season is ALOT more exciting due to the Korean invites. I'm pretty sure people wanted even more Koreans in such as MKP but there weren't enough room.
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OMG I can't wait anymore...all this hype is killing meeee!!! Go FD!!
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In interview one of my phrazes was deleted by editor, which totally changed whole meaning. I complainted not about koreans being invited, but about very big number of invited slots and proposed to change it either way: or invite foreigners in Korea or invite only koreans and let the foreigners in Korea qualify themselves. I asked editor to change it right now.
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On March 16 2011 17:25 Slaytilost wrote: Is it just me or do koreans suck at interviews? It may be the language barrier, but most of FD's answers are shorter then the questions. Nah, that's always been the case.
It's funny that Strelok poked fun at the Korean interview answering style and then FD dropped a wonderful example of said style.
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On March 16 2011 17:31 thopol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:25 Slaytilost wrote: Is it just me or do koreans suck at interviews? It may be the language barrier, but most of FD's answers are shorter then the questions. Nah, that's always been the case. It's funny that Strelok poked fun at the Korean interview answering style and then FD dropped a wonderful example of said style.
I'm sure the other Koreans will do their best to improve their interview style.
:D
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Strelok's concerns are pretty justified IMO. A tourney of such high calibre to give away half the slots does seem a bit excessive. But you really have to look at both sides. I personally believe TL made the right decision; their reasoning for the Korean invites is perfectly acceptable for me. Hopefully for TSL4 there will be a way to have Korean qualifiers too.
So stoked. Sooooooooooooo stoked. Three more days. =D
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On March 16 2011 17:27 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:24 nihlon wrote:On March 16 2011 17:10 kenkaze291 wrote: If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability... Strelok said many Koreans not all. And do you honestly think they would have got all the big names without the $$$ on the line? There's one reason for you. Also what is with several people calling Strelok racist? Wtf... Also I agree with Strelok on that there were too many invites. I have no problem with having Koreans in the tournament or invites, but considering the qualifying process having half invites is too much imo. That said, I'm still looking forward to the tournament a great deal. This TSL season is ALOT more exciting due to the Korean invites. I'm pretty sure people wanted even more Koreans in such as MKP but there weren't enough room.
I'm sure, and I'm also sure that there are people that feel otherwise. As I've said, I have no problem with Koreans in the tournament but that half of the spots being invites considering the qualifying process.
On March 16 2011 17:30 Strelok wrote: In interview one of my phrazes was deleted by editor, which totally changed whole meaning. I complainted not about koreans being invited, but about very big number of invited slots and proposed to change it either way: or invite foreigners in Korea or invite only koreans and let the foreigners in Korea qualify themselves. I asked editor to change it right now.
That's how I interpeted it pretty much.
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I can agree with Strelok's opinion about how many invitees there are but wishing it was a non-Asian tournament is a ****ing joke. I don't care how TSL was run before but if that was a rule I wouldn't have bothered with TSL.
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On March 16 2011 17:24 Velr wrote:I'm probably gonna root for Strelok. His interview actually makes sense. Seriously... A 32 Man tournament with that many invites just does not feel right. It doesn't even matter if they are Koreans or not, some of the other invites are even more "questionable". The amount of invites is just too big. I see 0 reasons to have Huk there but not Mana or Socke, Sjow. There are also about ZERO justifiable reasons to have Haypro there from what he has shown, if he wouldn't be on Liquid, he would not be in this tournament, he would probably not even make it in to cnbc  (i really hope he will do good, i really, really do  ). I just think this takes away from what this tournament could have been and adds about nothing. SOME invites (people that did really good in GSL's for isntance like Idra, Jinro, MC and Nestea) would be perfectly fine, many others just seem forced to generate hype or are fan favorites (Boxer, some liquid guys). Invites are not bad, there are just to many and to many not logical invites. A Grand Slam Tennis tourney is also not inviting Becker/Sampras/McEnroe just because they generate Hype (hi Boxer). Show nested quote +If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability... Lol, seriously? Money.
It's the teamliquid starleague. How can you expect TL not to invite it's own players.
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On March 16 2011 14:27 Hot_Bid wrote:
And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net.
Am i missing something or when did the koreans say they don't care about TSL? Is he just assuming this? Completely baseless and stupid to be honest.
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I agree with Strelok about the invite system. In the broodwar TSLs the grandeur was due in part to the "belongingness" that could be attributed to all the players involved. In TSL3, I can't quite say this. It feels more like a hodgepodge of baller invites than an epic storyline of struggle to the top.
Of course, Im sure there is something to do with the fact that a ladder qualifier was impossible due to Blizzard Bnet design.
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Well, even though the non-koreans are underdogs by default, I hope that they'll show the results of their hard practise and maybe there will be more "upsets" than anticipated. :-)
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I dunno I kind of agree with Strelok's point that Korean players in general are somewhat apathetic about foreigner tournaments; it's been this way since BW. For a Korean progamer, it's just another tournament that they think they have a good shot at, but for the foreign community, it's huge.
In the end it's better that there are Korean invites, though. It's not a global tournament if you exclude certain players. Not to mention, it adds way more excitement to see your favorite pros pitted up against the Koreans and we get to watch some hype matches like TLO vs freakin NaDa.
I'm actually expecting a lot of upsets after initially thinking the Koreans would take this pretty handily. The previous TSLs have been the biggest sc tournaments in the foreign community and you can bet the foreigners will work their asses off to take this down.
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Uh, if we're actually debating the format, I have more issues with the qualifiers than with the invites. I do agree with Strelok in the sense that if they've already invited half the tournament, they might as well have invited the other half and make it an invite-only.
Qualifier tournament format was quite horrible to be honest. TL Opens are fun to watch as actual tournaments, but I can't help but feel that using them as TSL qualifiers didn't really work that well.
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Wow people just seem to put way too much into what Strelok said, calling him various things because of those few lines. If you disagree with him, just say why and be content at that, no need to sound like you wanna beat him up. He's the one whos calmly explaining things without using words like "pissed" "shit" "stupid" or "fucking joke", you're not. Think about what you say about Strelok and how you look yourself.
As for the criticism itself, I think the main problem is that there couldnt be any qualifiers taking place in Korea. Had it been that, everything sort of would have solved itself. But since that wasnt a possibility, things pretty much have to end up "unfair" in one way or another. Whereas some EU/NA players undoubtedly would have been invited had they been EU/NA invites also, they were forced to go through a hard qualifier instead, where players in Korea got it for free. Im not doubting that those players have the quality to participate in TSL, but they sort of didnt earn their spot in the same way as the EU/NA players did.
There might also become a extra skill difference between the Korean players and the rest, as they seem to largely been chosen depending on GSL result. Meaning that they had several seasons to prove they are among the best in Korea, whereas precvious achievements didnt mean anything for NA/EU players and opened up for more "one-hit-wonders" rather than the best EU/NA had to offer.
Anyway, not saying it could have been done in a much better way without a Korean qualifier. Still pumped for TSL3 and hoping to see a Korean qualifier for TSL4 =).
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Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of
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On March 16 2011 17:44 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:24 Velr wrote:I'm probably gonna root for Strelok. His interview actually makes sense. Seriously... A 32 Man tournament with that many invites just does not feel right. It doesn't even matter if they are Koreans or not, some of the other invites are even more "questionable". The amount of invites is just too big. I see 0 reasons to have Huk there but not Mana or Socke, Sjow. There are also about ZERO justifiable reasons to have Haypro there from what he has shown, if he wouldn't be on Liquid, he would not be in this tournament, he would probably not even make it in to cnbc  (i really hope he will do good, i really, really do  ). I just think this takes away from what this tournament could have been and adds about nothing. SOME invites (people that did really good in GSL's for isntance like Idra, Jinro, MC and Nestea) would be perfectly fine, many others just seem forced to generate hype or are fan favorites (Boxer, some liquid guys). Invites are not bad, there are just to many and to many not logical invites. A Grand Slam Tennis tourney is also not inviting Becker/Sampras/McEnroe just because they generate Hype (hi Boxer). If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability... Lol, seriously? Money. It's the teamliquid starleague. How can you expect TL not to invite it's own players.
Some invites, ok, totally "normal", no problem.
Having invited basically all of them, no matter if they have shown anything "great" or not, is overdoing it from my point of view.
Or in other words: Jinro - Totally justified, would be a shame if he wasn't there. Ret/Haypro - "Questionable "(and i want nothign more than Ret to win this thing , well, except for Mondragon :p).
I somehow feel a 64 Slot tournament would have been better. This all suddenly wouldn't be an "issue" anymore.
Will be an awesome tourney and i can't wait for it to start anyway
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Lol@fruitdealer describing his personality in a few words. "I will work hard to show you quality games" the same thing every Korean pro says in every interview ever... Oh well he'll always be one of my favorites for defying the might of Terran in season 1.
Looking forward to reading MC's interview, he always seems to show us a little personality.
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Strelok was just annoyed at how they just got handed free invites whilst he and every other "foreigner" had to fight week after week just to qualify on points and quite a number of people missed out because of it. I'm happy to see a player voice his opinion and not just give robotic and standard answers to everything ranging from the invites to his thoughts on other matches, so well done Strelok!
Thorzain is underrated in the foreign scene, hopefully he can give fruitdealer a good game!
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goody will never win vs nestea not in a million years xD sorry thorzain xP but i think you can win vs fruitdealer
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On March 16 2011 18:00 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:44 red4ce wrote:On March 16 2011 17:24 Velr wrote:I'm probably gonna root for Strelok. His interview actually makes sense. Seriously... A 32 Man tournament with that many invites just does not feel right. It doesn't even matter if they are Koreans or not, some of the other invites are even more "questionable". The amount of invites is just too big. I see 0 reasons to have Huk there but not Mana or Socke, Sjow. There are also about ZERO justifiable reasons to have Haypro there from what he has shown, if he wouldn't be on Liquid, he would not be in this tournament, he would probably not even make it in to cnbc  (i really hope he will do good, i really, really do  ). I just think this takes away from what this tournament could have been and adds about nothing. SOME invites (people that did really good in GSL's for isntance like Idra, Jinro, MC and Nestea) would be perfectly fine, many others just seem forced to generate hype or are fan favorites (Boxer, some liquid guys). Invites are not bad, there are just to many and to many not logical invites. A Grand Slam Tennis tourney is also not inviting Becker/Sampras/McEnroe just because they generate Hype (hi Boxer). If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability... Lol, seriously? Money. It's the teamliquid starleague. How can you expect TL not to invite it's own players. Some invites, ok, totally "normal", no problem. Having invited basically all of them, no matter if they have shown anything "great" or not, is overdoing it from my point of view. Or in other words: Jinro - Totally justified, would be a shame if he wasn't there. Ret/Haypro - "Questionable "(and i want nothign more than Ret to win this thing  , well, except for Mondragon :p). I somehow feel a 64 Slot tournament would have been better. This all suddenly wouldn't be an "issue" anymore. Will be an awesome tourney and i can't wait for it to start anyway 
I can see why you'd say Haypro doesn't have the resume, but Ret won Assembly didn't he? That should be enough of an accomplishment to warrant an invite considering his limitations on participating in non-Korean tourneys.
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On March 16 2011 18:01 imJealous wrote: Lol@fruitdealer describing his personality in a few words. "I will work hard to show you quality games" the same thing every Korean pro says in every interview ever... Oh well he's always be one of my favorites for defying the might of Terran in season 1.
Looking forward to reading MC's interview, he always seems to show us a little personality.
What do you want him to say in his interview? That him and the Koreans are gonna crush all foreigners extremely badly in a foreigner's tournament? Yea I would totally say that and be hated by the foreigner's community for being cocky.
And for the Koreans saying that they will work hard is not just a common interview's formality, they really mean that they will work hard. You want them to lie and say: "nah I won't work hard since I'll crush everyone anyway cause I'm amazing?" just to make the interview more exciting and fresh?
I said this before but maybe some people who are only into NA/EU scene do not know but Fruit actually had a trouble past that made him very reserved and appreciative. He was actually really good at SC1 and beating Boxer near his prime but his father was hospitalized so he had to quit progaming and sell fruits on the street (really harsh life that we seldom see in western countries). Now he came back and became successful but still not forgetting his root and is rather proud about a less desirable job by using that as his account name.
If that is not a great personality and emotional far away from being robotic, I don't know what is. Boring interview is only because he really does not know the foreigner's scene that well yet. Korean GSL interviews do bring out exciting stuff in the form of rivalries ect.
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Germany2762 Posts
nice interviews 
fruitdealer seems to be so sorry for not performing that well lately -.-
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Incredible how some people shit on Strelok like he was some kind of Nazi just because he has a different personal opinion on what would be the best format for this tournament. Poor Strelok!
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On March 16 2011 18:06 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 18:00 Velr wrote:On March 16 2011 17:44 red4ce wrote:On March 16 2011 17:24 Velr wrote:I'm probably gonna root for Strelok. His interview actually makes sense. Seriously... A 32 Man tournament with that many invites just does not feel right. It doesn't even matter if they are Koreans or not, some of the other invites are even more "questionable". The amount of invites is just too big. I see 0 reasons to have Huk there but not Mana or Socke, Sjow. There are also about ZERO justifiable reasons to have Haypro there from what he has shown, if he wouldn't be on Liquid, he would not be in this tournament, he would probably not even make it in to cnbc  (i really hope he will do good, i really, really do  ). I just think this takes away from what this tournament could have been and adds about nothing. SOME invites (people that did really good in GSL's for isntance like Idra, Jinro, MC and Nestea) would be perfectly fine, many others just seem forced to generate hype or are fan favorites (Boxer, some liquid guys). Invites are not bad, there are just to many and to many not logical invites. A Grand Slam Tennis tourney is also not inviting Becker/Sampras/McEnroe just because they generate Hype (hi Boxer). If the Korean's didn't care about the tournament, why would they agree to participate in it. They will still prepare for their matches and everything to the best of their ability... Lol, seriously? Money. It's the teamliquid starleague. How can you expect TL not to invite it's own players. Some invites, ok, totally "normal", no problem. Having invited basically all of them, no matter if they have shown anything "great" or not, is overdoing it from my point of view. Or in other words: Jinro - Totally justified, would be a shame if he wasn't there. Ret/Haypro - "Questionable "(and i want nothign more than Ret to win this thing  , well, except for Mondragon :p). I somehow feel a 64 Slot tournament would have been better. This all suddenly wouldn't be an "issue" anymore. Will be an awesome tourney and i can't wait for it to start anyway  I can see why you'd say Haypro doesn't have the resume, but Ret won Assembly didn't he? That should be enough of an accomplishment to warrant an invite considering his limitations on participating in non-Korean tourneys.
Yes, Ret has "some" resume (basically Assembly and one weekly tourney, iirc?), but so do tons of others not invited. Just look at the records from some guys like Sjow in the weekly cups/iem and so on, for me the tournament just does not feel "complete" whiteout them... Instead we got some guys, that no one erally knows (they qualified, that makes them entirely legitimate competitors) and "some" questionable invites.
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On March 16 2011 18:09 Leviance wrote: Incredible how some people shit on Strelok like he was some kind of Nazi just because he has a different personal opinion on what would be the best format for this tournament. Poor Strelok!
It isn't Strelok's complaint about the number of invites that's the problem. It's this quote that's the problem
And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net.
How can Korean success be bad for TSL? 99% of the people on TL creamed their pants when it was revealed MC/Nestea/MVP were going to play. And why does Strelok assume Koreans don't care about this tournament? I've yet to see one Korean say that.
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On March 16 2011 17:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of
If it was just a US vs US tournament Strelok wouldn't even be in it unless that little flag next to his name is wrong. If you mean it's a us vs us tournament I'm pretty sure I've seen Korean posters on TL.net.
Just as Strelok is entitled to his opinion even though I want to see him get stomped in his games now, I am entitled to mine. Seems like you want to call me out so I might as well say I don't play SC2 at all I just love watching good games with good commentators. If you're saying the tournament would be better without Koreans I'm not seeing how.
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On March 16 2011 18:52 Hostile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of If it was just a US vs US tournament Strelok wouldn't even be in it unless that little flag next to his name is wrong. If you mean it's a us vs us tournament I'm pretty sure I've seen Korean posters on TL.net. Just as Strelok is entitled to his opinion even though I want to see him get stomped in his games now, I am entitled to mine. Seems like you want to call me out so I might as well say I don't play SC2 at all I just love watching good games with good commentators. If you're saying the tournament would be better without Koreans I'm not seeing how.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526
Previous TSLs
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Ah, cool. Not half bad interviews. Thanks for this.
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Only some americans could see the TSL as a US vs US "thing".
Hint: Last time the Top 3 was iirc: Nony, Mondragon and Sen (USA, Germany, Taiwan).
The TSL was basically everything except South Korea...
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Nice interviews! I'm thinking this could be the most exciting sc2 tournament to date! Have to agree a little bit with Strelok on so many invites and wish we could see Sjow and Socke but it still should be an awesome tourney! gogogog MVP. I'd love to see a foreigner take it but have a feeling it's gonna be 1-2-3 all Koreans. Either way should be awesome to watch...can't wait.
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heh, strelok critical as always. but he has a point - at least in my opinion. the invites should be a little less and the qualification over ladder should grant more spots. still, I guess he reminisces in the good old times of TSL 1 - 2 where it was indeed the best thing to only have foreigners - it was the biggest and most important foreigner tournament, which was taken very seriously by everyone and already one korean would have destroyed it. that's different nowadays. koreans are beatable and the perfection by training that was on an incomprehensibly high level in sc:bw is not yet as far in sc2 (let's just say IEM Hanover was 80% coincidence and 20% skill margin).
if korean training will own white dudes on a more regular basis in the future, as it did in sc:bw, maybe TSL will have to become a foreigner tournament once again.
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Don't hate on strelok because he expressed his opinions in an interview...
I thought FD interview was lacking, he said the same thing over and over and didnt show much personality.
Excited for GoOdy vs Nestea!
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On March 16 2011 18:58 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 18:52 Hostile wrote:On March 16 2011 17:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of If it was just a US vs US tournament Strelok wouldn't even be in it unless that little flag next to his name is wrong. If you mean it's a us vs us tournament I'm pretty sure I've seen Korean posters on TL.net. Just as Strelok is entitled to his opinion even though I want to see him get stomped in his games now, I am entitled to mine. Seems like you want to call me out so I might as well say I don't play SC2 at all I just love watching good games with good commentators. If you're saying the tournament would be better without Koreans I'm not seeing how. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526Previous TSLs
Strelok said non-Asians so he wants an even bigger ban than before?
Like I said before, if that was how the TSL3 could have been run I wouldn't bother watching. Excluding good players because they're Korean is just dumb and as much as I want to see foreigners defeat Koreans in the GSL (same for TSL3), I hate the idea of that kind of ban, much like how I would be sad if GOMTV stopped inviting foreigners onto their show.
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I was already rooting for Tyler, but after reading Strelok's interview I hope Tyler mercilessly crushes him.
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all of you people hating on strelok is the reason koreans give such cookie butting interviews. They want to avoid that hate for expressing their opinion
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i kind of understand Strelok, and i really dont think its mainly targeted@ the korean gsl-winners like nestea, fd, mvp and mc, but more @ the likes of mondragon, sen, haypro, nony, ret etc.
I DO understand that former winners (or top 3 for that matter) get an edge in another tournament, but i really really really think it is a mistake this time. This is sc2, it has nothing to do with sc:bw in questions of performance or smtg.
A sen hasnt performed lately, mondragon hasnt been seen around at all, nony hasnt lived up to his potential. Haypro, HuK, Ret would all have had their problems in the us/eu qualifier (even if we take lag out of consideration)
Thats 6 potential spots for player who really "deserve" a spot in this tournament. It feels really undeserving in those cases (though of course a tyler/huk/ret could have possibly snatched a spot in the qualifiers).
Its a strong opinion strelok showed there, but hey, its his opinion and he is entitled to it. And what better way to tell it than in a interview at tsl3.
Think about it, those 6 spots alone (dont even count in a boxer/genius/loner f.e.), that wouldve been 3 more qualifier (and three more ladder qualificants).
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On March 16 2011 19:11 Hostile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 18:58 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 16 2011 18:52 Hostile wrote:On March 16 2011 17:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of If it was just a US vs US tournament Strelok wouldn't even be in it unless that little flag next to his name is wrong. If you mean it's a us vs us tournament I'm pretty sure I've seen Korean posters on TL.net. Just as Strelok is entitled to his opinion even though I want to see him get stomped in his games now, I am entitled to mine. Seems like you want to call me out so I might as well say I don't play SC2 at all I just love watching good games with good commentators. If you're saying the tournament would be better without Koreans I'm not seeing how. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526Previous TSLs Strelok said non-Asians so he wants an even bigger ban than before? Like I said before, if that was how the TSL3 could have been run I wouldn't bother watching. Excluding good players because they're Korean is just dumb and as much as I want to see foreigners defeat Koreans in the GSL (same for TSL3), I hate the idea of that kind of ban, much like how I would be sad if GOMTV stopped inviting foreigners onto their show.
You don't have to ban them but let them qualify just as foreigners had to do for the first season of the gsl.
They could have had an seperate Korean qualifiers or something for x amount of spots to the tsl.
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United States5162 Posts
On March 16 2011 19:20 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 19:11 Hostile wrote:On March 16 2011 18:58 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 16 2011 18:52 Hostile wrote:On March 16 2011 17:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of If it was just a US vs US tournament Strelok wouldn't even be in it unless that little flag next to his name is wrong. If you mean it's a us vs us tournament I'm pretty sure I've seen Korean posters on TL.net. Just as Strelok is entitled to his opinion even though I want to see him get stomped in his games now, I am entitled to mine. Seems like you want to call me out so I might as well say I don't play SC2 at all I just love watching good games with good commentators. If you're saying the tournament would be better without Koreans I'm not seeing how. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526Previous TSLs Strelok said non-Asians so he wants an even bigger ban than before? Like I said before, if that was how the TSL3 could have been run I wouldn't bother watching. Excluding good players because they're Korean is just dumb and as much as I want to see foreigners defeat Koreans in the GSL (same for TSL3), I hate the idea of that kind of ban, much like how I would be sad if GOMTV stopped inviting foreigners onto their show. You don't have to ban them but let them qualify just as foreigners had to do for the first season of the gsl. They could have had an seperate Korean qualifiers or something for x amount of spots to the tsl.
It was explained right at the beginning why they didn't have Asians, or people living in Asia, qualify. The logistics involved were simply too great. You either had a bunch of people using other peoples accounts and having to worry about latency and the like, or you had a bunch of massive tournaments with a bunch of Koreans participating of which 90% can't speak English. It'd be a clusterfuck.
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On March 16 2011 19:20 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 19:11 Hostile wrote:On March 16 2011 18:58 zerglingsfolife wrote:On March 16 2011 18:52 Hostile wrote:On March 16 2011 17:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Strelok, thank you for telling it how it should be. What I remember from the previous two TSLs was it was the best foreigners, and adding Koreans makes this TSL feel like its tainted or something, and it is total crap that HALF of the players are invited, when most of them should have had to qualify.
EDIT: after going through and reading the comments, I see that most people that are saying "Strelok is wrong about not wanting Koreans" joined TL for SC2, you people have no idea what TSL was like before this. TSL was AMAZING and it made everyone in the foreigner community want to watch cuz it was just US vs US. People with 6 posts saying that what Strelok says is a joke need to step back and realize they cant comment on things they kno nothing of If it was just a US vs US tournament Strelok wouldn't even be in it unless that little flag next to his name is wrong. If you mean it's a us vs us tournament I'm pretty sure I've seen Korean posters on TL.net. Just as Strelok is entitled to his opinion even though I want to see him get stomped in his games now, I am entitled to mine. Seems like you want to call me out so I might as well say I don't play SC2 at all I just love watching good games with good commentators. If you're saying the tournament would be better without Koreans I'm not seeing how. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105526Previous TSLs Strelok said non-Asians so he wants an even bigger ban than before? Like I said before, if that was how the TSL3 could have been run I wouldn't bother watching. Excluding good players because they're Korean is just dumb and as much as I want to see foreigners defeat Koreans in the GSL (same for TSL3), I hate the idea of that kind of ban, much like how I would be sad if GOMTV stopped inviting foreigners onto their show. You don't have to ban them but let them qualify just as foreigners had to do for the first season of the gsl. They could have had an seperate Korean qualifiers or something for x amount of spots to the tsl.
I'm not sure you've been following the TSL3, but they addressed this earlier in the process. They felt they couldn't handle the logistical aspect of having a qualifier in Korea. I.e. getting enough translators, get korean accounts (you need to have a korean unique identification nymber), the latency issue, etc.
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On March 16 2011 18:22 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 18:09 Leviance wrote: Incredible how some people shit on Strelok like he was some kind of Nazi just because he has a different personal opinion on what would be the best format for this tournament. Poor Strelok! It isn't Strelok's complaint about the number of invites that's the problem. It's this quote that's the problem Show nested quote + And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net.
How can Korean success be bad for TSL? 99% of the people on TL creamed their pants when it was revealed MC/Nestea/MVP were going to play. And why does Strelok assume Koreans don't care about this tournament? I've yet to see one Korean say that.
With "format" I didn't exclusively mean number of invites. He stated his opinion as you stated yours. Just for the record: I disagree with him, too. But let's look at some other of his opinions:
Strelok wrote: I played very bad in the qualifiers and shouldn't have qualified.
Noone mentioned this, but people accuse him of being afraid to face a Korean -> he isn't even sure to deserve to be in TSL himself.
The way some people insult Strelok for expressing his opinion just doesn't seem adequate. Basically he just stated that he personally would be more excited about a format like TSL1 and TSL2 with only top foreigners going at it.
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god tsl 2 was awesome, just can not wait for tsl3
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Aw, fruitdealer almost seems depressed in the interview. But then again, in his up-n-down match he absolutely smashed Virus. I like Thorzain from Wc3, but I don't think playing lame will be an option against 'dealer in his current shape.
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Strelok said everything right, they should have either make non-Korean tournament or don't invite Liquid members as 'Koreans'. They could qualify in fair way just like TLO did.
But obviously any criticism will be received negatively here by Liquid fanboys that don't bother enough to read twice to understand what man said.
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first of all, great interviews!
secondly, am i the only one who hates how koreans answer interviews? i really don't know if it's cultural thing or not, but it's like fruitdealer got no personality whatsoever. he answered his questions with one-two short sentences, with usual "i wiill practice hard and try to win" bullshit. compared to the other 3, his interview was the worst one.
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I have to say I kinda agree with Strelok. You don't get quite as excitied when most matchups are pretty predictible.. Even in FD's interview he basically said he accepted the invite because he had performed poorly lately and wanted to feel good about himself through stomping some noobs. I guess everything can happen in a game of starcraft, but to me top 4 sadly seems pretty predetermined.
On March 16 2011 19:39 Madest wrote: Strelok said everything right, they should have either make non-Korean tournament or don't invite Liquid members as 'Koreans'. They could qualify in fair way just like TLO did.
But obviously any criticism will be received negatively here by Liquid fanboys that don't bother enough to read twice to understand what man said.
I don't agree with him saying that it's bad they invited the Liquid players. I mean come on. This is the Team Liquid Starleague.. You can't expect them not to invite their own players -.-' That's like not showing up to your own birthday party. If you're gonna go all out emo, and talk about Liquid fanboys on Team fucking Liquid.net, you should pack and leave, kid.
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Great, great interviews. Some hardcore words from Strelok. Thanks for the interviews!
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I think most people need to read streloks interview one more time. He is not saying "NO KOREANS NO INVITES". HE just think there were too many invites, specially the "forigners" in korea like Idra, Liquid guys. And I can agree with that, even tho I like theese players, I think they should have been forced to play in the normal qualifiers and only invites should have been "real" koreans.
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On March 16 2011 19:57 SayTT wrote: I think most people need to read streloks interview one more time. He is not saying "NO KOREANS NO INVITES". HE just think there were too many invites, specially the "forigners" in korea like Idra, Liquid guys. And I can agree with that, even tho I like theese players, I think they should have been forced to play in the normal qualifiers and only invites should have been "real" koreans.
Uh, no. He said that they in his opinion either should make it foreigner only, or only invite the koreans. As I said earlier. This is the Team Liquid starleague. It would make no sense whatsoever if the liquid players didn't compete in it.
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On March 16 2011 19:55 Euronyme wrote: I don't agree with him saying that it's bad they invited the Liquid players. I mean come on. This is the Team Liquid Starleague.. You can't expect them not to invite their own players -.-' That's like not showing up to your own birthday party.
Yeah, just like they did in TSL1 and TSL2... oh wait.
If you're gonna go all out emo, and talk about Liquid fanboys on Team fucking Liquid.net, you should pack and leave, kid.
Now that's some strong argument. You've just proved my statement.
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On March 16 2011 20:03 Madest wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 19:55 Euronyme wrote: I don't agree with him saying that it's bad they invited the Liquid players. I mean come on. This is the Team Liquid Starleague.. You can't expect them not to invite their own players -.-' That's like not showing up to your own birthday party. Yeah, just like they did in TSL1 and TSL2... oh wait. Show nested quote +If you're gonna go all out emo, and talk about Liquid fanboys on Team fucking Liquid.net, you should pack and leave, kid. Now that's some strong argument. You've just proved my statement.
What are you even doing on this site? You're talking down on the community you're trying to be a part of. It's just sad. Edit: If you don't understand what a huge privilege it is to be a part of team liquid, you really don't deserve to be here.
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Not wanting a freepass for every Luiquid-Player and not supporting them are two diffrent things. entirely diffrent things.
Gosh... You know why the Koreans give such bad and bland interviews? Because people like you begin to shit at each other as soon as there is some line that could start a discussion.
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On March 16 2011 19:46 Lipski wrote: first of all, great interviews!
secondly, am i the only one who hates how koreans answer interviews? i really don't know if it's cultural thing or not, but it's like fruitdealer got no personality whatsoever. he answered his questions with one-two short sentences, with usual "i wiill practice hard and try to win" bullshit. compared to the other 3, his interview was the worst one.
I am signing the "great interviews" part, loved them, but not some reactions by users to streloks one in the comments.
so I guess the reason for FDs interview style you can also see in this reactions. when people get all mad, wirte something like ".. lost a fan" and a big attack and defense discussion would start, when I would write my honest opinion on a subject or say something that can be seen somewhat negative, then I would also think twice next time what I want to reveal of myself and it doesnt matter if streloks point is valid or not.. is just his opinion, it wont change the way the world works, but people are way overreacting.
so I guess this FD style of interview is this sort of professional kind of interview where you want to give the bare minimum, let the world remain in peace and just keep your head free for the games. also bear in mind that the foreign scene are even more unknown waters for him in this regard.
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South Africa4316 Posts
It should be pointed out that Strelok's interview has been edited to make it more representative of what he intended. As such, those reading it now will probably interpret it differently from those reading it earlier. Either way, feel free to agree or disagree, but don't flame.
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On March 16 2011 20:04 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 20:03 Madest wrote:On March 16 2011 19:55 Euronyme wrote: I don't agree with him saying that it's bad they invited the Liquid players. I mean come on. This is the Team Liquid Starleague.. You can't expect them not to invite their own players -.-' That's like not showing up to your own birthday party. Yeah, just like they did in TSL1 and TSL2... oh wait. If you're gonna go all out emo, and talk about Liquid fanboys on Team fucking Liquid.net, you should pack and leave, kid. Now that's some strong argument. You've just proved my statement. What are you even doing on this site? You're talking down on the community you're trying to be a part of. It's just sad. Edit: If you don't understand what a huge privilege it is to be a part of team liquid, you really don't deserve to be here. I don't know if you're an idiot or just a troll. I enjoyed TSL2 and TSL3, but I don't like current format and agree with Strelok. And I'm not talking down on community, only on the worst representatives.
Edit: If you don't understand what a huge privilege it is to be a part of team liquid, you really don't deserve to be here. Last time I checked there were 7 members of team Liquid. Or do you seriously think that registering on a forum on the internet is a privelege?
User was warned for this post
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FruittttttttttttDealllleerr!!! Gogogo and win it -__-
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Thanks for the Interviews and gogo Tyler! I've never been so hyped for tournament, and that is thanks to the korean invites. So far everything TL did for their Starleagues, for all of them, was top notch. I don't agree with Strelok.
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On March 16 2011 18:22 red4ce wrote: How can Korean success be bad for TSL? 99% of the people on TL creamed their pants when it was revealed MC/Nestea/MVP were going to play. And why does Strelok assume Koreans don't care about this tournament? I've yet to see one Korean say that.
I think you overestimate how many people got excited for the Koreans.
Being around for the first 2 TSLs, watching the grind of the qualifying ladders, the surges players made to reach the top 48 in the waning hours of the ladder phase, then the grind of the qualifiers - like someone said, there was a story to it.
A number of the Korean players, I don't care about them now, and I won't care about them later. Half the bracket being invites takes away that feel of "Wow - you really earned this," that there was when a player made it to the Ro16 in the previous TSLs.
On March 16 2011 19:55 Euronyme wrote:
I don't agree with him saying that it's bad they invited the Liquid players. I mean come on. This is the Team Liquid Starleague.. You can't expect them not to invite their own players -.-' That's like not showing up to your own birthday party.
I do remember NonY and Drone both had to qualify for TSL2 on their own merit. Liquid wasn't as active of a team then, but the point remains - Liquid players weren't automatically invited into the previous TSLs, they had to earn their spot.
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This is great hype. I really liked FD's and Tyler's interview. Thanks!
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Wow FruitDealer is so honest criticizes himself etc that takes balls.
liked this writeup!
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On March 16 2011 20:22 Madest wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 20:04 Euronyme wrote:On March 16 2011 20:03 Madest wrote:On March 16 2011 19:55 Euronyme wrote: I don't agree with him saying that it's bad they invited the Liquid players. I mean come on. This is the Team Liquid Starleague.. You can't expect them not to invite their own players -.-' That's like not showing up to your own birthday party. Yeah, just like they did in TSL1 and TSL2... oh wait. If you're gonna go all out emo, and talk about Liquid fanboys on Team fucking Liquid.net, you should pack and leave, kid. Now that's some strong argument. You've just proved my statement. What are you even doing on this site? You're talking down on the community you're trying to be a part of. It's just sad. Edit: If you don't understand what a huge privilege it is to be a part of team liquid, you really don't deserve to be here. I don't know if you're an idiot or just a troll. I enjoyed TSL2 and TSL3, but I don't like current format and agree with Strelok. And I'm not talking down on community, only on the worst representatives. Show nested quote +Edit: If you don't understand what a huge privilege it is to be a part of team liquid, you really don't deserve to be here. Last time I checked there were 7 members of team Liquid. Or do you seriously think that registering on a forum on the internet is a privelege?
Yes I do. This site is by far the best community site there is. To find your way here, discussing the game you love is a huge privilege. Talking smack about team liquid fanboys is pretty retarded, considering you're posting on team liquid. You basically either love it or don't play starcraft.
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Im so hyped about this! This is gonna be an amazing tournament! Fruitdealer wants to play Morrow, i wonder why that is.
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Top 4 100% korean gogogo! Let's just end the debate once and for all.
On March 16 2011 20:30 Mawi wrote: Wow FruitDealer is so honest criticizes himself etc that takes balls.
liked this writeup! Hmmm korean players have always been modest like that.. Typical korean interview.
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On March 16 2011 20:28 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
I do remember NonY and Drone both had to qualify for TSL2 on their own merit. Liquid wasn't as active of a team then, but the point remains - Liquid players weren't automatically invited into the previous TSLs, they had to earn their spot.
The difference here is that without a Korean qualifier, it makes it literally impossible for the Liquid' players to qualify for TSL. That's just horribly unfair to them - they've given up a lot to go to Korea and play for Liquid', and not inviting them is a bit of a slap in the face. Whether or not they were the most qualified is another debate, but given that Team Liquid is hosting the tournament, compromises must be made. Notice that TLO was not invited but left to qualify on his own.
As the administration explained at the very beginning, the logistics of holding Asian qualifiers were a true nightmare. This is unfortunate, and hopefully future TSLs will be able to remedy this, but we can't have it all.
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On March 16 2011 15:34 Char711 wrote:[...] Very worried about BoxeR. Like everyone else, I want him to win really badly because . . . well . . . he's BoxeR! But + Show Spoiler +going down to Code A makes me worry a lot about his current skill level and level of preparedness.
How much of a spoiler is that? Do you really think that putting this sentence after the word "but.." in spoiler tags will make your statement completely spoilerless?? From what you write it is TOTALLY OBVIOUS that boxer (who JUST played) lost today
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i hope GoOdy will beat NesTea, him and Jinro are the most exciting Terrans to watch (due to them using mech more often then the others). Not sure he can beat NesTea with that TvZ of his though :/
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On March 16 2011 20:53 MapleLeafSirup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 15:34 Char711 wrote:[...] Very worried about BoxeR. Like everyone else, I want him to win really badly because . . . well . . . he's BoxeR! But + Show Spoiler +going down to Code A makes me worry a lot about his current skill level and level of preparedness. How much of a spoiler is that? Do you really think that putting this sentence after the word "but.." in spoiler tags will make your statement completely spoilerless?? From what you write it is TOTALLY OBVIOUS that boxer (who JUST played) lost today
He played yesterday actually.
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Can't wait!
I'll be rooting hardcore for ThorZaIN, gogogo.
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Fruitdealer so sad...  I want him to win. Or give him a hug.
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I know alot of you guys dont agree from the latest results from Fruitdealer, but I have to say that I still think he is the best zerg of em all. His micro is superb aswell as his macro, If he didnt get drunk so often and stopped fool around and praticed instead, he would easily be performing as the best zerg should be.
Glad to see that he stayed in GSL code S. He really deserves to be there.
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Q: Who do you feel are the best non-Korean players? Who have you heard of and who do you wish to play against?
I suppose it would have to be Jinro, who is competing in GSL. Of the foreign players, I’d like to face Morrow.
LOL. whats going on here?? Is there a feud I'm not aware of? Morrow said in the zerg invites thread that he liked all of them except FD lol
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Good luck FD. Can't wait to see you play well again.
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I like Strelok, a honest man.
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I agree with Strelok, hopefully less invites in the next tsl and instead make open qualifiers in Korea as in all other regions.
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United States7116 Posts
FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive.
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Strelok gives an awesome interview, it's rare that you see someone actually say what they're thinking in these things.
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United States7116 Posts
Also, I agree that it is usually admirable to speak one's mind, but I strongly disagree against speaking one's mind when you end up sounding flat-out rude and discriminatory.
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Strelok's criticism of the invite system and Fruitdealer's rather dejected demeanor really stand out to me the most. Hopefully, Strelok will eat his own words once he tears through several rounds of Koreans, assuming he beats Tyler.
I also hope for Fruitdealer to show us some excellent games. Like a true champion, he's placing blame on himself for his recent lack of performance in GSL, unlike certain other people who would rather point towards maps and balance. I heard that Fruitdealer has a rather loose practice regimen, and that he's been slacking off a bit lately. Hopefully, that will change.
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I dont like what Strelok is saying in his interview about the TSL invites. You can see he is very upset that so many players got their TSL spots for "free", and he doesnt like that Koreans are invited to non-korean tournament at all. But this is the power and uniqueness of TSL3 that it has the best players from all over the world, none of the SC2 tournaments have been like this one before.
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On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive.
Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this...
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I disagree with Strelock's view on Korea vs. non-Korea, I want it to be like WC3 where the best players aren't in one region. With the NASL it's possible for the game not to be centered around one country and the only way for that to happen is continued competition between the best Korea has to offer vs. everyone else.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this...
Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all:
"And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net."
And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory).
It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me.
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On March 16 2011 21:00 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 20:53 MapleLeafSirup wrote:On March 16 2011 15:34 Char711 wrote:[...] Very worried about BoxeR. Like everyone else, I want him to win really badly because . . . well . . . he's BoxeR! But + Show Spoiler +going down to Code A makes me worry a lot about his current skill level and level of preparedness. How much of a spoiler is that? Do you really think that putting this sentence after the word "but.." in spoiler tags will make your statement completely spoilerless?? From what you write it is TOTALLY OBVIOUS that boxer (who JUST played) lost today He played yesterday actually.
So what? Either he thinks the game is old enough that he can spoil anybody or he does not think like that and wants to avoid spoiling us (which seems to be the case) then he did it in a terrible way
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If you fall over and die due to a spoiler of a game that was yesterday... then you might should not visit a gaming website featuring that game...
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On March 16 2011 22:11 MapleLeafSirup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:00 Euronyme wrote:On March 16 2011 20:53 MapleLeafSirup wrote:On March 16 2011 15:34 Char711 wrote:[...] Very worried about BoxeR. Like everyone else, I want him to win really badly because . . . well . . . he's BoxeR! But + Show Spoiler +going down to Code A makes me worry a lot about his current skill level and level of preparedness. How much of a spoiler is that? Do you really think that putting this sentence after the word "but.." in spoiler tags will make your statement completely spoilerless?? From what you write it is TOTALLY OBVIOUS that boxer (who JUST played) lost today He played yesterday actually. So what? Either he thinks the game is old enough that he can spoil anybody or he does not think like that and wants to avoid spoiling us (which seems to be the case) then he did it in a terrible way
Personally I avoid TL like the plague if I don't wanna get spoiled of a game I missed to watch live. You should too.
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It is great to see that some people actually have something to say in their interviews. Props to Strelok, I agree with him on every single point but ONE : imo TSL MUST involve Korean players so that we can witness the infamous Korea vs. rest_of_the_world challenge. But apart from that, I really liked his comments about BoxeR vs. NightEnD and HayprO vs Kas.
Compared to this the FD interview did sound a little dull to me... I found the following sentence particularly sad :
I might not seem so important because I haven’t been doing so great lately, but if you keep an eye on me from now on, I’ll repay it with quality games.
Maybe it was the translation, but really... I guess I will never get the Korean mentality =(
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:22 Odeyuken wrote:It is great to see that some people actually have something to say in their interviews. Props to Strelok, I agree with him on every single point but ONE : imo TSL MUST involve Korean players so that we can witness the infamous Korea vs. rest_of_the_world challenge. But apart from that, I really liked his comments about BoxeR vs. NightEnD and HayprO vs Kas. Compared to this the FD interview did sound a little dull to me... I found the following sentence particularly sad : Show nested quote + I might not seem so important because I haven’t been doing so great lately, but if you keep an eye on me from now on, I’ll repay it with quality games. Maybe it was the translation, but really... I guess I will never get the Korean mentality =(
You'll never understand why people act humble and polite? I personally find the attitude to be quite endearing. Sure, it gets a bit boring to hear most Koreans talk like that, but when it comes down to it, all it is is a show of humility, which I think is good for any person striving to be good at something.
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Or you could say it's boring and a pretty "Asian" thing...
Most/many other sports are nothing like that. A little "shittalk" is totally normal in a competetive enviroment.
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haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:29 Velr wrote: Or you could say it's boring and a pretty "Asian" thing...
Most/many other sports are nothing like that. A little "shittalk" is totally normal in a competetive enviroment.
And Koreans do shit talk at times. But, back to the specific situation: What was there for FruitDealer to say? It's true that he's been underperforming lately. Would you rather he blame balance or bad luck? No - he's explicitly blaming himself, and apologizing to his fans for not playing good games for them. It seems like a perfectly stand-up thing to do. Would you rather he be unapologetic and tell his fans to "deal with it" or something when he underperforms?
You might say it's boring, but being that polite is likely the Korean norm in interviews. I always found it funny and rather annoying that many in the western scene seem to approve of shit-talking, arrogance, and BM, and treat Korean shows of humility and politeness in interviews as boring. Don't forget that they happen to be ahead of the rest of the world in actual skill level right now - I find it far more impressive and admirable that most of them possess such humble attitudes in the face of their ridiculously vigorous practice regimes. They could just as easily act like asses and condescend toward the entire foreign scene, but they don't. I find that to be extremely admirable.
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On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me.
he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves.
you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different.
the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern.
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Awesome interviews!
And I don't agree with people's criticism of Strelok at all. Yes, this time around the TSL aimed to bring us "The legends" vs "The foreigners", because it is a unique chance we could have never had in Broodwar, with players being closer together than they could have ever been there, yet still retainining their history from that game. It is a trade-off the TSL management has been very aware of from the beginning, I'm sure, but chose to use this great chance anyways instead of just letting it slip by. TSL management also stated that they would have liked to provide qualifiers for the Korean side, but just didn't have the resources to do so.
Strelok on the other hand has every right to look at the TSL from whatever perspective he wants, as does everybody else, and his point is reasonable and justified and you can't give him shit for that. Disagree with him if you want, but don't give him shit just because he has an opinion different from yours.
Liked the last three interviews the most, each being very peculiar/unique to the player. FruidDealer's Korean style of answering was a bit of a let down despite being the known style of answering for Koreans, but it provided good colour/contrast to the other players, which still made it fun.
But of course Tyler is and will always be the champion and take this tournament, hands down. GO TYLER!!!!
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On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily.
I'll bet you the opposite. How much? :D
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern.
There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:42 enzym wrote: Awesome interviews!
And I don't agree with people's criticism of Strelok at all. Yes, this time around the TSL aimed to bring us "The legends" vs "The foreigners", because it is a unique chance we could have never had in Broodwar, with players being closer together than they could have ever been there, yet still retainining their history from that game. It is a trade-off the TSL management has been very aware of from the beginning, I'm sure, but chose to use this great chance anyways instead of just letting it slip by. TSL management also stated that they would have liked to provide qualifiers for the Korean side, but just didn't have the resources to do so.
Strelok on the other hand has every right to look at the TSL from whatever perspective he wants, as does everybody else, and his point is reasonable and justified and you can't give him shit for that. Disagree with him if you want, but don't give him shit just because he has an opinion different from yours.
Liked the last three interviews the most, each being very peculiar/unique to the player. FruidDealer's Korean style of answering was a bit of a let down despite being the known style of answering for Koreans, but it provided good colour/contrast to the other players, which still made it fun.
But of course Tyler is and will always be the champion and take this tournament, hands down. GO TYLER!!!!
Tell me, how is his last paragraph about not wanting to even watch Korean play and preferring "prepared non-Koreans", and the statement, "If I wanted to watch Koreans play I'd go to gomtv.net" reasonable and justified at all? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.
It seems like everyone who's defending Strelok is completely ignoring that last paragraph of his little TSL rant. I already acknowledged that I can understand his criticism of the invite system. You can't, however, excuse the obvious anti-Korean sentiment clouding his answer by saying "Oh, that's just his opinion".
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TLO had to earn his spot too? Tyler earned it by winning the last TSL. Jinro and Idra are the two best foreigners, what kinda tournament would it be without them? Ret, Haypro and HuK couldnt qualify from the korean servers, but HuK just made Code S, Ret won Assembly, and Haypro just beat TLO and Tyler at Pax.
If the invites get their ass handed to them in the TSL you can complain, but w8 and see...
As for the koreans, what kind of tournament would it be with out the best players in the world? Would be like if US hosted a soccer tournament, with only US players and hyping it to be the best tournament in the world.
And if people like Strelok, Goody, Thorzain, Ciara could qualify along wiht house hold names like White-Ra, TLO, Morrow etc. What stops Kiwikaki, Tarson, Sjow and so on from qualifiying?
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On March 16 2011 17:01 Talin wrote: I can't believe people are that skeptical about Boxer.
Sure he probably won't win TSL or go very far in it, but Nightend definitely isn't the sort of player that can be a favorite against him just yet. I can't imagine why people would favor Nightend over any of the Code S or Code A GSL players. Or even most top foreigners for that matter.
Seconded. Though Boxer has had some mixed results (and has been demoted to code A), he is still REALLY GOOD AT SC2. It seems that people start out thinking "he's certainly not the best Korean player" and somehow end up thinking "He is not favored to win against top foreign players". Those two statements are not equal. Careful with your logic--this is the Emperor after all ;-)
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On March 16 2011 22:47 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:42 enzym wrote: Awesome interviews!
And I don't agree with people's criticism of Strelok at all. Yes, this time around the TSL aimed to bring us "The legends" vs "The foreigners", because it is a unique chance we could have never had in Broodwar, with players being closer together than they could have ever been there, yet still retainining their history from that game. It is a trade-off the TSL management has been very aware of from the beginning, I'm sure, but chose to use this great chance anyways instead of just letting it slip by. TSL management also stated that they would have liked to provide qualifiers for the Korean side, but just didn't have the resources to do so.
Strelok on the other hand has every right to look at the TSL from whatever perspective he wants, as does everybody else, and his point is reasonable and justified and you can't give him shit for that. Disagree with him if you want, but don't give him shit just because he has an opinion different from yours.
Liked the last three interviews the most, each being very peculiar/unique to the player. FruidDealer's Korean style of answering was a bit of a let down despite being the known style of answering for Koreans, but it provided good colour/contrast to the other players, which still made it fun.
But of course Tyler is and will always be the champion and take this tournament, hands down. GO TYLER!!!! Tell me, how is his last paragraph about not wanting to even watch Korean play and preferring "prepared non-Koreans", and the statement, "If I wanted to watch Koreans play I'd go to gomtv.net" reasonable and justified at all? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that. Personal preference, probably influenced by the history of TSL and a little hyperbolic because of his disappointment with the drop in competitive quality/fairness for TSL's decision to let the drawbacks of no Korean qualifiers fly. It is as reasonable as saying that you don't like vanilla ice cream. In fact it is more reasonable than that, but needs no more justification. He also didn't attack anybody even remotely as aggressively as the people commenting on him.
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You'll never understand why people act humble and polite? I personally find the attitude to be quite endearing. Sure, it gets a bit boring to hear most Koreans talk like that, but when it comes down to it, all it is is a show of humility, which I think is good for any person striving to be good at something.
I agree with you, some people are humble and I do have a lot of respect for this. What I don't understand is the fact that nearly ALL of them act like this when interviewed... You always get the same pattern : "I will do my best, fighting ~~~", "I think he's very strong but I will train non stop so I can defeat him" or "I think the game is very balanced the better player wins".
Don't get me wrong, I like this attitude when it is genuine, and maybe it is the case with FD. Now the problem is : you see this with almost every Korean when he is interviewed. It was the same with Warcraft 3. As somebody posted earlier, it is possible that whenever most Koreans are asked to do an official statement, they'd rather not get too critical and/or personal about it, so that the community does not look at them the way that Strelok is being looked at right now : somebody who complains about the tournament and expresses his opinion in a very straight-forward manner.
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I actually liked strelok's interview. Honest man. And I sort of agree with him. It was really hard to qualify for this tournament and some people just got it for free. We've seen many upsets in EU/NA qualifiers and I believe not all of foreigners in KR would have qualified.
I don't mind that some koreans got invited. I just hope they won't roll over foreigners And if they do, hey, we still have NASL
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:56 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:47 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 22:42 enzym wrote: Awesome interviews!
And I don't agree with people's criticism of Strelok at all. Yes, this time around the TSL aimed to bring us "The legends" vs "The foreigners", because it is a unique chance we could have never had in Broodwar, with players being closer together than they could have ever been there, yet still retainining their history from that game. It is a trade-off the TSL management has been very aware of from the beginning, I'm sure, but chose to use this great chance anyways instead of just letting it slip by. TSL management also stated that they would have liked to provide qualifiers for the Korean side, but just didn't have the resources to do so.
Strelok on the other hand has every right to look at the TSL from whatever perspective he wants, as does everybody else, and his point is reasonable and justified and you can't give him shit for that. Disagree with him if you want, but don't give him shit just because he has an opinion different from yours.
Liked the last three interviews the most, each being very peculiar/unique to the player. FruidDealer's Korean style of answering was a bit of a let down despite being the known style of answering for Koreans, but it provided good colour/contrast to the other players, which still made it fun.
But of course Tyler is and will always be the champion and take this tournament, hands down. GO TYLER!!!! Tell me, how is his last paragraph about not wanting to even watch Korean play and preferring "prepared non-Koreans", and the statement, "If I wanted to watch Koreans play I'd go to gomtv.net" reasonable and justified at all? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that. Personal preference, probably influenced by the history of TSL and a little hyperbolic because of his disappointment with the drop in competitive quality/fairness for TSL's decision to let the drawbacks of no Korean qualifiers fly. It is as reasonable as saying that you don't like vanilla ice cream. In fact it is more reasonable than that, but needs no more justification. He also didn't attack anybody even remotely as aggressively as the people commenting on him.
You're completely sidestepping how inherently discriminatory his final paragraph sounded. There are plenty of ways to express disillusionment at how TSL is handling itself without throwing in a handful of snide snipes at Korean play. I'm repeating myself like a broken record because people seem insistent on turning his statements into mere disillusionment with the way TSL is being handled, when, in actuality, mere disillusionment with the way TSL is being handled is only half of what he's saying (the other half being the stuff that I take offense at). Everyone seems to keep missing the point. YES, I realize that his answer expresses frustration at the amount of invites. Yes, I acknowledge that that's a valid complaint. But OTHER parts of his answer clearly say, "I do not want Koreans in the TSL". That's a COMPLETELY separate issue from the invites, so stop ignoring the offensive half of what he's saying and trying to sum up his answer in a falsely innocent way.
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On March 16 2011 22:56 Odeyuken wrote:Show nested quote + You'll never understand why people act humble and polite? I personally find the attitude to be quite endearing. Sure, it gets a bit boring to hear most Koreans talk like that, but when it comes down to it, all it is is a show of humility, which I think is good for any person striving to be good at something.
I agree with you, some people are humble and I do have a lot of respect for this. What I don't understand is the fact that nearly ALL of them act like this when interviewed... You always get the same pattern : "I will do my best, fighting ~~~", "I think he's very strong but I will train non stop so I can defeat him" or "I think the game is very balanced the better player wins". Don't get me wrong, I like this attitude when it is genuine, and maybe it is the case with FD. Now the problem is : you see this with almost every Korean when he is interviewed. It was the same with Warcraft 3. As somebody posted earlier, it is possible that whenever most Koreans are asked to do an official statement, they'd rather not get too critical and/or personal about it, so that the community does not look at them the way that Strelok is being looked at right now : somebody who complains about the tournament and expresses his opinion in a very straight-forward manner.
It's a cultural thing. Humility and being polite is something that is embedded deep in a lot of asian cultures. I should know I am one of them.
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On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out.
if your bold part is true why does he concede then that they might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned.
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God i hate the racism card, but when so many people complain about koreans it's hard to not raise an eyebrow, they're boring, they all play the same, they give shit interviews etc. It's such unjustified bullshit.
Fruitdealers interview was great imo, he tells it as it is instead of making excuses.
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On March 16 2011 20:52 Base wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 20:28 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
I do remember NonY and Drone both had to qualify for TSL2 on their own merit. Liquid wasn't as active of a team then, but the point remains - Liquid players weren't automatically invited into the previous TSLs, they had to earn their spot. The difference here is that without a Korean qualifier, it makes it literally impossible for the Liquid' players to qualify for TSL. That's just horribly unfair to them - they've given up a lot to go to Korea and play for Liquid', and not inviting them is a bit of a slap in the face. Whether or not they were the most qualified is another debate, but given that Team Liquid is hosting the tournament, compromises must be made. Notice that TLO was not invited but left to qualify on his own.
Notice that TorcH was not invited, and thus "screwed." Notice that Artosis was not invited and thus "screwed." Neither of these two are "headline" players, but both are players that have given up a lot to go to Korea, as have the Liquid` guys, and yet they aren't getting this treatment. There is an inherent bias here. In the end, it's TL's choice, and the TSL will still be kick-ass, but please don't act like the Liquid` guys were the ONLY ones to go to Korea when SC2 dawned.
I'm not saying the Liquid` guys don't deserve it, although I don't agree with just mass inviting all of them that are in Korea due to performance reasons, but someone said "Well why wouldn't you invite the Liquid` guys to the TSL?" and I was pointing out that - in the past - they were not automatically invited themselves.
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On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily.
Would you like to make a friendly wager?
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 23:07 gamefan15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. if your bold part is true why does he concede then that their might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned.
I acknowledged that point in a previous post, but I'll say it again for you. Yes, he does concede that there might be some invite spots for "true Koreans", but he shoots himself in the foot in his last paragraph, where he goes on to say that he'd rather watch only foreigners play against each other in the TSL, and that if he wanted to watch Koreans, he'd go to gomtv.net. That last paragraph clearly shows his true feelings on the matter - he doesn't want Koreans in the TSL. I don't know how else you'd interpret that last paragraph.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 23:07 pezit wrote: God i hate the racism card, but when so many people complain about koreans it's hard to not raise an eyebrow, they're boring, they all play the same, they give shit interviews etc. It's such unjustified bullshit.
Fruitdealers interview was great imo, he tells it as it is instead of making excuses.
Yeah, it's funny how many are giving Strelok credit for being brutally honest, while few people are giving FD credit for stepping right up and saying, "Yeah, I've been doing badly and it's all my fault. I fucked up and I completely take responsibility." Instead, I just see lots of disparaging comments about Koreans being boring.
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On March 16 2011 23:12 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 23:07 pezit wrote: God i hate the racism card, but when so many people complain about koreans it's hard to not raise an eyebrow, they're boring, they all play the same, they give shit interviews etc. It's such unjustified bullshit.
Fruitdealers interview was great imo, he tells it as it is instead of making excuses. Yeah, it's funny how many are giving Strelok credit for being brutally honest, while few people are giving FD credit for stepping right up and saying, "Yeah, I've been doing badly and it's all my fault. I fucked up and I completely take responsibility." Instead, I just see lots of disparaging comments about Koreans being boring. FruitDealer ain't korean, he is zerg man. He belong to humanity. Comment about korean being boring does not apply to him.
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Great interviews! Gotta agree with Strelok that a lot of "upsets" are going to occur, with foreigners beating Koreans.
Too bad Strelok himself is going to be knocked out by Tyler :p
Liquid'Tyler fighting!!
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On March 16 2011 14:44 Jesushooves wrote: I don't see why everyone thinks that a korean will win this, the only reason you have to support this is IEM results, of which neither Moon, Ace, or Squirtle will be participating in this tournament. There are some sick players from GSL in this one, but no reason to think this will be "korean favoured", at least from my perspective. In any case this should be pretty awesome, looking forward to it! Here is some additional evidence to IEM results:
Foreign Tournaments: MLG - Won by HuK; no Koreans there. IdrA (from Korean server at that time). Jinro (from Korean server at that time) IEM- slaughtered by the Korean server players- Top 5. Dreamhack 2010- involved only 2 koreans, + Show Spoiler +and it's not like Inca and Top are anywhere near MC and MVP's calibre both of whom qualified and had to face each other in first round of playoffs, Top lost 3rd place game to Fenix. EDIT; FXO Invitationals - won by oGstheSTC and oGsHero
Consider that the tournaments involving any Korean server players have almost all been won by them respectively (except for Dreamhack).
I think the misconception is that Koreans themselves are better, rather it's the people who are playing on that server that are the top, since the Korean server seems to emphasize better mechanics (imo). I don't think a Korean person will win this necessarily, but I'd say odds are very likely someone from the Korean server wins this. EDIT; added for additional support-
On March 16 2011 23:28 ptbl wrote:Also the last two FXO invitationals were won by Koreans. The first was won my oGstheStC and the second was won by oGsHero.
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On March 16 2011 23:25 Durp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 14:44 Jesushooves wrote: I don't see why everyone thinks that a korean will win this, the only reason you have to support this is IEM results, of which neither Moon, Ace, or Squirtle will be participating in this tournament. There are some sick players from GSL in this one, but no reason to think this will be "korean favoured", at least from my perspective. In any case this should be pretty awesome, looking forward to it! Here is some additional evidence to IEM results: Foreign Tournaments: MLG - Won by HuK; no Koreans there. IdrA (from Korean server at that time). Jinro (from Korean server at that time) IEM- slaughtered by the Korean server players. Dreamhack 2010- involved only 2 koreans + Show Spoiler +and it's not like Inca and Top and anywhere near MC and MVP both of whom qualified and had to face each other in first round of playoffs, Top lost 3rd place game to Fenix. Consider that the tournaments involving the Korean server players have all been won by them respectively (except for HuK's victory). Most international tournaments are won by Korean server players. I think the misconception is that Koreans themselves are better, rather it's the people who are playing on that server that are the top. I don't think a Korean person will win this necessarily, but I'd say odds are very likely someone from the Korean server wins this.
Also the last two FXO invitationals were won by Koreans. The first was won my oGstheStC and the second was won by oGsHero. The only "foreigners" i see having a shot taking down the koreans are the foreigners who are training in Korea like Jinro.
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On March 16 2011 22:44 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily. I'll bet you the opposite. How much? :D
10 bucks. he is invited because he is a teamliquid member.
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On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily.
Did you watch haypro vs TLO and haypro vs tyler?
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On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily.
Don't think this is fair at all. Haypro looked really strong, creative and ahead of the metagame in that recent Liquid showmatch. His ZvP was really brilliant.
I love that you're getting Korean interviews as well as EU/NA ones, and I am absolutely PSYCHED about seeing FD against Kas. Also love that he wants to face Morrow, would be an absolutely amazing match I'm sure.
So psyched. <3 TL <3
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On March 16 2011 23:33 gavss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 22:44 nihlon wrote:On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily. I'll bet you the opposite. How much? :D 10 bucks. he is invited because he is a teamliquid member.
Have you seen the PAX East tournament involving HayprO?
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Great stuff. Thanks a ton, this will be my first TSL as well so can't wait :>
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It's not about Haypro being bad or anything like that, for sure he isn't, he wouldn't be in Korea anymore if he wouldn't be damn good. The thing is that there are many other players, that also could have been invited which didn't get an invite. Thats what makes this taste a little bitter.
A bigger field which would have invited every player that won something major (Assembly, Dreamhack, MLG 1-3, IEM... + most concistend "weekly" or "monthly final" winning persons) would make this look "better".
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I always love Fruitdealer interviews.
Maybe now that his money is running low from GSL1 his drive to win will be back.
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South Africa4316 Posts
I personally loved FD's interview. If you followed FD a few years ago, he was one of the most self-confident/arrogant players in BW. Although this interview might seem typical for a Korean (not that I think it is, he is being way more apologetic about his own performances than is the norm), it is very atypical for FruitDealer. To me, he seems like he really wants to succeed and wants to play good games. His interview seemed very heartfelt to me.
Also, regarding the Strelok comment, I think everyone understands that TL would have preferred to have open qualifiers for Asia. Unfortunately this was not possible, so TL had to invite players. The rationale behind the specific invites were explained quite well in the post on the Terran invites. That said, it's understandable that players who had to work hard for weeks to qualify feel a bit aggrieved by the invites. Unfortunately, until we can host a Korean TL Open, there aren't many alternatives except for purposefully excluding many of the best players in the world from TSL.
The way I see it, the compromise which was made is the best for the spectators and fair for the competitors. All the international players had a fair chance of qualifying, and any players who did not qualify simply failed to perform in the eight tournaments made available to them. The international players that were invited might have had an easier path, but as was said in the post on the rationale, these players worked hard and sacrificed a lot to go to Korea, and penalizing them for this seems the worse of the available options.
On March 16 2011 23:44 Velr wrote: It's not about Haypro being bad or anything like that, for sure he isn't, he wouldn't be in Korea anymore if he wouldn't be damn good. The thing is that there are many other players, that also could have been invited which didn't get an invite. Thats what makes this taste a little bitter.
A bigger field which would have invited every player that won something major (Assembly, Dreamhack, MLG 1-3, IEM... + most concistend "weekly" or "monthly final" winning persons) would make this look "better".
Players were only invited if they were unable to qualify due to being in Asia. The plan was always to invite Koreans after the deserving foreigners in Korean had been invited. Which international players in Korea do you believe should also have been invited, considering that the invitations were sent around December/January?
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Great interviews!
Interesting that Fruit Dealer said he would like to meet Morrow. :D
Hope to see some good games!
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streloks interview was very disapointing, not knowing who he is and seeing that was so sad safe. I hope tyler rips him apart!!!
gogogogo liquid!
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On March 16 2011 23:44 Velr wrote: It's not about Haypro being bad or anything like that, for sure he isn't, he wouldn't be in Korea anymore if he wouldn't be damn good. The thing is that there are many other players, that also could have been invited which didn't get an invite. Thats what makes this taste a little bitter.
A bigger field which would have invited every player that won something major (Assembly, Dreamhack, MLG 1-3, IEM... + most concistend "weekly" or "monthly final" winning persons) would make this look "better".
i agree. if u invite haypro, u should also invite sjow, socke, kiwikaki, select, dimaga, qxc, mana, morrow, white-ra, demuslim, etc.
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Awesome interviews, can't wait until Saturday. Tyler is going to destroy Strelok :D
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ThorZaIN fighting! Sweden represent!
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On March 16 2011 23:10 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 23:07 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. if your bold part is true why does he concede then that their might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned. I acknowledged that point in a previous post, but I'll say it again for you. Yes, he does concede that there might be some invite spots for "true Koreans", but he shoots himself in the foot in his last paragraph, where he goes on to say that he'd rather watch only foreigners play against each other in the TSL, and that if he wanted to watch Koreans, he'd go to gomtv.net. That last paragraph clearly shows his true feelings on the matter - he doesn't want Koreans in the TSL. I don't know how else you'd interpret that last paragraph.
well I dont agree with this paragraph either. but I also dont have hard feelings about just one paragraph in such an interview. yes it is obviously more appealing to him if only the foreign scene like it was in starcraft 1 would duke it out on their own in this tournament. but isnt this to a certain extent understandable from his player view and given the starcraft and foreign sc tournament history which he is used to? this obviously has more practicable, what you are used to and what you can identify more with due to the past reasons than it got anything to do with racism.
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Tyler Fighting! So stoked on this tournament. Given the circumstances I think the Korean invites were completely legit. Maybe having 1/2 of the bracket Korean invites is a bit much, but in all honesty I think it makes for a better tournament for the viewers.
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I wonder if rekrul is gonna give us some good nony vs [insert korean] action this tsl. :D
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haha.i do feel that part of the reason why nony against idra was so epic was that massive bet that rek had against everyone. Would be fun!
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Streloks interview was nice.
The interview of Fruitdealer was boring as expected.
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Damn korean interviews are all the same they never really seem to share anything about themselves just talk about their performance in game. Ah well was a fun read, and yeah Tyler fighting!
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I don't think people should bash Strelok for his opinion. I agree with him about the invite situation though. Either open it up to a full qualifier, or make it fully invitational.
On the issue of inviting koreans or keeping it a non-korean tournament. I think the answer is very simple:
1. Worldwide tournament. Why limit who can play and who can't based on their specific location? If a player from Russia or NA can play, why can't a player from South Korea participate? Makes no sense to me. However, if this was an NA tournament, then yes, it makes sense to only allow NA players to play.
2. Worldwide tournament - people living in US or wherever the tournament is based are only allowed. Therefore if a Korean player wants to play in the tournament, he has to move into a house or rent their own apartment on site. Same goes for all international players. No games allowed to be played outside borders.
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loving the story development for the TSL, so entertaining
TL Fighting
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Great Interview, thank you! Glad to see Tyler is in good shape, hope he can pull it off to Ro4 at least (or hell, win the whole thing). Even though I'm excited for the pool of players, I gotta agree with Strelok: I would have liked less Korean players and more foreign ones who deserved it. Hope it doesn't go as IEM this year.
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United States17042 Posts
I really want to see the top foreigners destroy in this tsl; that would be amazing.
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Nice interviews. Can't wait to read more.
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:O TSL3 coverage has been pretty sick so far, I hope the tournament itself is this good :D
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I think Strelok's anger is in that he's been trying in the qualifiers to get in for months, and then other guys just get seeded in. Of course, they obviously deserve the seeds, but I completely understand his frustration. And honestly, if there really is that much thought that foreigners are actually going to win, I would totally pull a Rekrul. That would be easy cash
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On March 16 2011 22:29 Velr wrote: Or you could say it's boring and a pretty "Asian" thing...
Most/many other sports are nothing like that. A little "shittalk" is totally normal in a competetive enviroment. He has never even heard of his opponent, why would he "shittalk" him that would be disrespectful in any sport
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Socke, Mana, Sjow, Tarson just to mention few who deserve to be there, but couldn't qualify because of a very hard system of qualifications
yeah right... Socke is exactly where he belongs
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On March 17 2011 01:39 storm8ring3r wrote:Show nested quote +Socke, Mana, Sjow, Tarson just to mention few who deserve to be there, but couldn't qualify because of a very hard system of qualifications yeah right... Socke is exactly where he belongs ... Are you saying he doesn't deserve to be in the tourney? He is the best or second best Protoss in Europe IMO. I don't get this statement at all.
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I didn't realize there were going to be pre-game interviews. This is awesome! I didn't know anything about Thorzain, but after reading his interview I'm not sure who to root for.
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On March 17 2011 01:39 storm8ring3r wrote:Show nested quote +Socke, Mana, Sjow, Tarson just to mention few who deserve to be there, but couldn't qualify because of a very hard system of qualifications yeah right... Socke is exactly where he belongs Wtf are you talking about? Well yes, I suppose as he didn't manage to qualify he doesn't belong in the tournament, but to consider socke anything other than one of the absolute top foreign protoss' is silly.
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On March 17 2011 00:07 gamefan15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 23:10 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 23:07 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. if your bold part is true why does he concede then that their might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned. I acknowledged that point in a previous post, but I'll say it again for you. Yes, he does concede that there might be some invite spots for "true Koreans", but he shoots himself in the foot in his last paragraph, where he goes on to say that he'd rather watch only foreigners play against each other in the TSL, and that if he wanted to watch Koreans, he'd go to gomtv.net. That last paragraph clearly shows his true feelings on the matter - he doesn't want Koreans in the TSL. I don't know how else you'd interpret that last paragraph. well I dont agree with this paragraph either. but I also dont have hard feelings about just one paragraph in such an interview. yes it is obviously more appealing to him if only the foreign scene like it was in starcraft 1 would duke it out on their own in this tournament. but isnt this to a certain extent understandable from his player view and given the starcraft and foreign sc tournament history which he is used to? this obviously has more practicable, what you are used to and what you can identify more with due to the past reasons than it got anything to do with racism.
Lingering familiarities from the BW era scenes being more isolated doesn't justify it at all in my book. That's just silly. That's like saying it's okay for someone to be racist, because in the past they had participated in a war against whoever they're racist towards. The reason Koreans weren't in the previous TSLs was due to the skill gap just being too great. Now that that's clearly changed and foreigners have a legitimate perceived shot at taking a tournament seeded with top korean players, there's no longer a reason for them to not participate. I'm with HolyArrow. That last paragraph just came across as really xenophobic and I lost a lot of respect for Sterlock there.
Otherwise though, I'm loving these pre-game interviews. I'm getting more hyped every day. I really hope FD catches a break, I felt bad for the guy.
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Is it just me or is mouz.Strelok kind of a douche? Hes bashing how the TSL is set up in his interview? manner up man. Be more like FD! haha
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Great interviews! I think it would be awesome if Thorzain came out and beat FD, Thorzain Fighting!
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Strelok likes NightEnd over Boxer? That's very interesting.
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<3 Fruit Dealer! Win the TSL!
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Strelok are you kidding me? Manner up bro you've lost any potential fan in me.
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Awesome awesome more hype for what looks to be an amazing tourney.
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posts like this really help you get to know the players and pick someone too cheer for in each match :p
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Excellent interviews all around!
I really respect Strelok for being totally opinionated and up front. He has paid his dues and is entitled to his opinion, and him vs Nony is a great matchup.
Also I am such a Fruitdealer fanboy. :D
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On March 17 2011 02:53 Ghad wrote: Excellent interviews all around!
I really respect Strelok for being totally opinionated and up front. He has paid his dues and is entitled to his opinion, and him vs Nony is a great matchup.
Also I am such a Fruitdealer fanboy. :D
I'm not sure qualifying for a tournament someone else sets up, knowing in advance the format, and then complaining about what the tournament organizers chose to do, qualifies as paying one's dues. If he wants to state, "I would have set it up differently," fine, but he didn't leave it at that.
On a related note, in NA and Korea we probably ignore most of the European scene, except the fan favs like White-Ra and TLO, for example. I can see how it seems unfair that there not be any EU or NA invites, but it is TL's tournament, and they can invite all six of their players, who are certainly among the top foreigners anyway.
Also, the TL qualifiers might have been hard, but just getting into GSL is hard too, and they had the format worked out for a long time.
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Anyone notice that when Koreans are asked about foreigners, they always know who Morrow is?
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
Strelok speak clear, some invites free and hard qualy, its true, i agree
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Tyler and FD, man! Gogogogo.
Strelok is free to have his own opinion - but I think it would be a tough argument to make that any of the people he mentioned (Socke, Sjow, Mana, Tarson) could legit-beat any of the invited Koreans. I mean, it'd be great if this was like the NCAA tourney with a bajillion spots, but y'know, you do what you gotta do.
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can't wait, and love the interviews!
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On March 16 2011 22:29 Velr wrote: Or you could say it's boring and a pretty "Asian" thing...
Most/many other sports are nothing like that. A little "shittalk" is totally normal in a competetive enviroment.
I know this comment was a few pages back, but many great sports player are humble and absolutely do not shit talk at all. For example, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are always humble and "bland" in interviews but they let their skill and results do all the talking. They know they are professionals and are role models to many people. Many shit talkers in competitive sports that I heard of are not well respected in my opinion.
Not to mention Korean Progammers shit talk from time to time ie. the GSTL.
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On March 17 2011 02:08 Riotbot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 00:07 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 23:10 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 23:07 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. if your bold part is true why does he concede then that their might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned. I acknowledged that point in a previous post, but I'll say it again for you. Yes, he does concede that there might be some invite spots for "true Koreans", but he shoots himself in the foot in his last paragraph, where he goes on to say that he'd rather watch only foreigners play against each other in the TSL, and that if he wanted to watch Koreans, he'd go to gomtv.net. That last paragraph clearly shows his true feelings on the matter - he doesn't want Koreans in the TSL. I don't know how else you'd interpret that last paragraph. well I dont agree with this paragraph either. but I also dont have hard feelings about just one paragraph in such an interview. yes it is obviously more appealing to him if only the foreign scene like it was in starcraft 1 would duke it out on their own in this tournament. but isnt this to a certain extent understandable from his player view and given the starcraft and foreign sc tournament history which he is used to? this obviously has more practicable, what you are used to and what you can identify more with due to the past reasons than it got anything to do with racism. Lingering familiarities from the BW era scenes being more isolated doesn't justify it at all in my book. That's just silly. That's like saying it's okay for someone to be racist, because in the past they had participated in a war against whoever they're racist towards. The reason Koreans weren't in the previous TSLs was due to the skill gap just being too great. Now that that's clearly changed and foreigners have a legitimate perceived shot at taking a tournament seeded with top korean players, there's no longer a reason for them to not participate. I'm with HolyArrow. That last paragraph just came across as really xenophobic and I lost a lot of respect for Sterlock there. Otherwise though, I'm loving these pre-game interviews. I'm getting more hyped every day. I really hope FD catches a break, I felt bad for the guy.
aside from the discussion I wanted to say something to the part I marked bold. I am not totally sure about that. ofc its not like it was in bw. but the korean sc2 progamers train probably in nearly the same conditions and schedule like the sc 1 progamers whereas I dont expect "foreigners" which dont live in a korean programing house atm to have the same quality and amount of training.
in IEM guys like Moon, Squirtle, Ace wouldnt even to be considered such top tier players like Mvp, Nestea etc and still you could see the result. again I am not saying that I myself would like to execlude them. I like it better how TSL did this.. just that I can understand if you from a foreign player perspective kind of feel more uncomfortable to go against them.
but ofc I would be glad if the korean and foreign scene will move more together and if on the long run both can compete on the same level.
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What i like about TL is how fast people forget. Just 2 months ago, there was a series of interview with Fruitdealer, that was then asked to name a Progammer to had to be interview next. He asked for NaDa and postulated the following question..
''How did it feel to get your command center infested back in the days of BW..''
That`s a troll question right there. Fruit`s notorious for posting troll post on PlayXP while drunk.
And right now, it`s his first Foreigner Tournament, and its the first time meeting us, and he`s being a nice guy about it. You`d prefer a guy kicking at your door, screaming ''Helloooooo bitches'' while entering your place?
And this is not boxing, i wouldn`t want SC to turn like that, a smack talk fest, made by nerds. How ridiculous would that be. Like Nerd please, 99.9% of the nerds that play SC cant back their smacktalk, they would never talk like that in the Streets to no one. Most of the shit talkers, they cant back it up in real life. That`s not being real to me.
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Gooo Fruitdealer!!.. Out of all SC2 players I think FD is one of the most iconic, because of how epic his GSL1 run was. Don't care if he's been sloppy as of late. I'm definitely a fan!
Ones I'd like to see win TSL3:
-FD -White-Ra -Jinro -MC
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I couldn't agree less with Strelok. I think most people would like to see top Koreans fighting the best foreigners.
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I'm suprised how many people are bashing Strelok here, he's totally right. But when I think about it most of these people are very new to Starcraft, e-sport and competitive gaming. You guys don't even know how it was before SC2, koreans didn't give a shit to foreign scene for 10 years, why would we start inviting them to our events? To be politically correct and avoid those ridiculous "stop being racist" comments? That is insane. Moreover there is another obvious reason. All these top korean pros will just own foreigners, before IEM nobody really knew how big the skill gap between these two scenes is. Now we know that we can't match with them in skill and the foreigner-v-korean games will be completely one-sided. I guess TL didn't know that before invites and even I thought that the gap is not that huge. If there are smart people in TL staff I'm sure they regret their decision and are scared of the upcoming games. I suspect that TSL4 will be foreign-only again.
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awesome interviews. though i gotta say that i disagree with strelok's opinions. The reason why no koreans were invited for the previous two tsl is because the they would utterly destroy everyone in the tournament easily lololol. However, in sc2 the skill gap is a lot closer and it would be a lot more intersting to have the stars from different parts of the world face off for the first time.
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Wow, FD is really short spoken in these answers and very hard on himself.
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On March 17 2011 04:17 xCyan1de wrote: Wow, FD is really short spoken in these answers and very hard on himself. If you strive to be the best you have to be hard on yourself when you're not the best.
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Ofc fruitdealer's gonna take this.. hes from the goddam TSL team
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Wow. My brother somehow beat Strelok at the last TL Qualifier and he simply says he played bad? At least give credit where credit is due.
Also I really hope Boxer wins his first round since everyone is saying he'll most likely lose .
And I hope FruitDealer can make top 4 this tournament.
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On March 17 2011 01:34 1Eris1 wrote: I think Strelok's anger is in that he's been trying in the qualifiers to get in for months, and then other guys just get seeded in. Of course, they obviously deserve the seeds, but I completely understand his frustration. And honestly, if there really is that much thought that foreigners are actually going to win, I would totally pull a Rekrul. That would be easy cash
The rules and guidelines for the TSL3 was set way long ago. I cannot believe Strelok did not know about the invitations.
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This whole "Koreans are boring" thing is common to all sports. The less skilled guys have to stay relevant with talk and "personality." The top tier guys in terms of skill let their abilities do the talking and realize that true fans will appreciate what they accomplish in the actual sport.
So I guess the question you have to ask yourself is this: do you love watching Starcraft enough to just enjoy the games, or are the games themselves boring without all the surrounding drama? If a game played between two of the best players available doesn't interest you, maybe you just don't like watching the actual game all that much. Maybe for you SC2 is just not that interesting as a sport.
As a fan of BW, I could care less about whatever weak trash talk happens outside the game and will enjoy the game as long as it's played between the most skilled people. I will honestly admit that for SC2 I care about skill but it's kinda boring unless there is drama or hype outside the actual game (or if I really like a particular player like NaDa, Boxer, or Tyler). Therefore I would consider myself a hardcore BW fan and a casual SC2 fan.
This means I don't appreciate SC2 as much as hardcore fans and that maybe I shouldn't talk shit about the "personalities" of the top SC2 players when I can't appreciate their ability in the game itself.
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On March 17 2011 04:03 rafaliusz wrote: I'm suprised how many people are bashing Strelok here, he's totally right. But when I think about it most of these people are very new to Starcraft, e-sport and competitive gaming. You guys don't even know how it was before SC2, koreans didn't give a shit to foreign scene for 10 years, why would we start inviting them to our events? To be politically correct and avoid those ridiculous "stop being racist" comments? That is insane. Moreover there is another obvious reason. All these top korean pros will just own foreigners, before IEM nobody really knew how big the skill gap between these two scenes is. Now we know that we can't match with them in skill and the foreigner-v-korean games will be completely one-sided. I guess TL didn't know that before invites and even I thought that the gap is not that huge. If there are smart people in TL staff I'm sure they regret their decision and are scared of the upcoming games. I suspect that TSL4 will be foreign-only again.
They didnt because the BW community got overrun by the Wc3 community which was actually competitive. The foreigner never were at BW, that`s life. Sour grapes my dude.
And if Tsl becomes foreigner only again, it would mean that we failed as a community. I hope you`re going to be happy about it. I know i won`t.
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I wasn't really that excited about TSL before... but the interviews really peaked my interest. I care more about who wins/loses well beyond just hoping for good games. (Tyler fighting!)
Also can't wait for the MC interview.
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On March 17 2011 05:30 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: I wasn't really that excited about TSL before... but the interviews really peaked my interest. I care more about who wins/loses well beyond just hoping for good games. (Tyler fighting!)
Also can't wait for the MC interview.
"Ciara drone drone drone, me win win. " Hell yea mc
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And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net.
but you are a player. you should be wanting to compete with the best.
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On March 17 2011 04:03 rafaliusz wrote: I'm suprised how many people are bashing Strelok here, he's totally right. But when I think about it most of these people are very new to Starcraft, e-sport and competitive gaming. You guys don't even know how it was before SC2, koreans didn't give a shit to foreign scene for 10 years, why would we start inviting them to our events? To be politically correct and avoid those ridiculous "stop being racist" comments? That is insane. Moreover there is another obvious reason. All these top korean pros will just own foreigners, before IEM nobody really knew how big the skill gap between these two scenes is. Now we know that we can't match with them in skill and the foreigner-v-korean games will be completely one-sided. I guess TL didn't know that before invites and even I thought that the gap is not that huge. If there are smart people in TL staff I'm sure they regret their decision and are scared of the upcoming games. I suspect that TSL4 will be foreign-only again. Koreans didn't give a shit about the foreign scene? You make it sound like they owed foreigners something. And Koreans did make an effort to bring in top foreigners. You know what the real problems was? Aside from some small communities, the foreign scene didn't care about BW nearly as much as the Koreans do.
We Americans had every opportunity to create a thriving North American BW league and link up with Korea. What, you think we couldn't because we were too poor and Korea should have helped the foreign scene by giving us handouts? No, the foreign scene was weak and had weaker players because we weren't as fanatical about BW.
How many foreigner players had the dedication to succeed in Korea? Idra was one of the few and he wasn't even close to the skill level of the top Korean pros. You think the Koreans wouldn't invite a "foreigner" who was as good as Flash or Bisu? Oh please. The Koreans wanted a foreigner pretty bad and they tried to make it happen, but the hard fact is there weren't a lot of us willing to sacrifice our lives and dedicate everything to being as good.
The Koreans never discriminated against the most skilled players because of where they're from or personalities. In fact Idra can be seen as a case of affirmative action to be honest. You think a random Korean would have gotten the opportunities in Korea that he had? It's not that Koreans didn't care about the foreign scene, it's that the foreign scene never cared about BW the way the Koreans did.
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On March 17 2011 05:38 Slow Motion wrote: In fact Idra can be seen as a case of affirmative action to be honest. You think a random Korean would have gotten the opportunities in Korea that he had?
Exactly what I have thought since Idra had joined CJ Entus/ESTRO.
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On March 17 2011 05:45 lyk503 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 05:38 Slow Motion wrote: In fact Idra can be seen as a case of affirmative action to be honest. You think a random Korean would have gotten the opportunities in Korea that he had? Exactly what I have thought since Idra had joined CJ Entus/ESTRO. And this is not to denigrate Idra. I have all the respect in the world for him loving the game and being dedicated enough to sacrifice as much, if not more, as other Korean players to become great at the game. I'm merely pointing out that Korea was very open to not only the most skilled players, but even to helping skilled foreigners who weren't as good as Koreans make it in Korea.
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On March 17 2011 04:03 rafaliusz wrote:
Moreover there is another obvious reason. All these top korean pros will just own foreigners, before IEM nobody really knew how big the skill gap between these two scenes is. Now we know that we can't match with them in skill and the foreigner-v-korean games will be completely one-sided. I guess TL didn't know that before invites and even I thought that the gap is not that huge. If there are smart people in TL staff I'm sure they regret their decision and are scared of the upcoming games. I suspect that TSL4 will be foreign-only again.
I disagree that all korean v non-korean games will be slaughters. In IEM the non-Korean players were completely taken aback by the builds and timings of the korean trained players. White-ra said, regarding his loss to Idra, if Idra had been just a little bit later on the 200 food push he would have been able to defend it. Moon and Ace roflstomped their way through to the finals by utilizing builds the non-Koreans were completely unprepared for.
The results of IEM have given the foreign scene a wakeup call. Before IEM many foreign pros were saying Koreans weren't all that much better. Obviously they are. Now white-ra, morrow, qxc, etc will be studying Korean strategies and practicing their balls off to take them down. Most will be unsuccessful, but someone will succeed and become a legend in the foreigner community. SC2 is still a volatile game, the Ro32 is Bo3, and not every Korean will be in his top form come gameday. Upsets will happen, and all this talk about an impossible gap between Koreans and non-Koreans will die at least for a little while.
To those complaining about Fruitdealer's interview being boring. Maybe he realizes how much of a privilege it isto be an invite to a non-Korean tournament and he's being polite and respectful to not step on anyone's toes. If you were a guest in someone else's house you don't just walk in the first day and say 'jyeaaah imma own diz shit up Koreans raawk we gonna pwn u foreign noobies.' If you want to know more about his personality, read up on his Korean interviews because they're much more insightful.
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Would be great to see a non Korean win, but cant help but get pumped anytime I see Boxer coming around again!
GL to all, should be a amazing tournament.
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Regarding the invites vs opne spots issue, would it not have been enough enough when the amount of open spot would have been increased from 16 to 48?
This way we would have a ro64 and i vaguely remember it was the same way for previous tsl? Something is rings when remembering top64 of iccup ladder : P
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Really surprised by what strelok said in his interview. I'm confused to as why he thinks 1) koreans don't care about this tournament 2) foreigners will prepare more (sort of implied in what he says)... The korean players obviously do care about this tournament. Not sure what strelok was trying to say, it was as if he was saying Koreans play boring or something...
Also confused as to why he doesn't want the best of the best players to play against. Sounds like he was just a bit butthurt that certain people simply got invited while he had to work really hard for his spot, but the rules were pretty clearly written out way before, and it now just sounds like he's just whining... kind of a bad mindset if you ask me. Why would he want TSL to be foreigner (non-korean) only? Really don't see his reasoning behind it, other than making the tournament "easier."
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*sorry, accidently pressed quote instead of edit*
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God TSL is going to be SO good. The kind of growth in quality and scale of event that has taken place with it annually to leave it THIS awesome by now is just, unh. I love TL. So pumped.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 17 2011 02:08 Riotbot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 00:07 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 23:10 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 23:07 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote:On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote:On March 16 2011 21:44 quarky wrote:On March 16 2011 21:38 HolyArrow wrote: FruitDealer's interview was so endearing. I hope he does well in this TSL. It's nice to see that he completely blames himself for his failures and is stating that he's making a very sincere attempt at improving.
On the other hand, Strelok's interview made me an anti-fan. I can understand his bitching about invites, but I find it odd that he singles out Koreans suddenly in the middle of his complaint about invites. Why single out Koreans? I just went to the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg invite threads and I counted seven Korean invites out of 13 total invites (unless there are 3 invites that I'm not aware of since it seems like Strelok thinks there were 16 invites...). I don't see the need to single out Koreans when they were only barely over half the invites. Furthermore, he makes assumptions that Koreans "don't seem to care about this tournament" when FruitDealer's interview professes the exact opposite. To his credit, he mentions inviting only "true Koreans" and making the foreigners in the GSL qualify like all other foreigners, but I still don't like the assumptions he makes and his general attitude against Koreans. Also, he needs to fix his wording - since when did Korean become synonymous with Asian? Would he also think it acceptable to bar players like Sen and Loner access from the TSL? I find his overall statements like "keep this a non-Asian tournament" to be offensive. Where does he single out koreans, he just says that the invites are all over the place. I think you are reading too much into this... Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. if your bold part is true why does he concede then that their might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned. I acknowledged that point in a previous post, but I'll say it again for you. Yes, he does concede that there might be some invite spots for "true Koreans", but he shoots himself in the foot in his last paragraph, where he goes on to say that he'd rather watch only foreigners play against each other in the TSL, and that if he wanted to watch Koreans, he'd go to gomtv.net. That last paragraph clearly shows his true feelings on the matter - he doesn't want Koreans in the TSL. I don't know how else you'd interpret that last paragraph. well I dont agree with this paragraph either. but I also dont have hard feelings about just one paragraph in such an interview. yes it is obviously more appealing to him if only the foreign scene like it was in starcraft 1 would duke it out on their own in this tournament. but isnt this to a certain extent understandable from his player view and given the starcraft and foreign sc tournament history which he is used to? this obviously has more practicable, what you are used to and what you can identify more with due to the past reasons than it got anything to do with racism. Lingering familiarities from the BW era scenes being more isolated doesn't justify it at all in my book. That's just silly. That's like saying it's okay for someone to be racist, because in the past they had participated in a war against whoever they're racist towards. The reason Koreans weren't in the previous TSLs was due to the skill gap just being too great. Now that that's clearly changed and foreigners have a legitimate perceived shot at taking a tournament seeded with top korean players, there's no longer a reason for them to not participate. I'm with HolyArrow. That last paragraph just came across as really xenophobic and I lost a lot of respect for Sterlock there. Otherwise though, I'm loving these pre-game interviews. I'm getting more hyped every day. I really hope FD catches a break, I felt bad for the guy.
Your analogy to racism pretty much hit the nail on the head. You can't justify discriminatory feelings by going "Oh, but his feelings are understandable to due to history". That's like excusing most of the deep south in the U.S for discrimination against African Americans today because of the history there. Note that I am not trying to draw moral equivalence here. I'm just using the analogy to make the general argument that you don't just excuse xenophobia/discrimination by citing someone's history. Doesn't work that way. To me, and likely to many other people criticizing Strelok, people simply sense lots of bitterness toward Koreans in his post, which is childish and short-sighted. I admire the Korean scene for all its attempts to give foreigners opportunities in Korea. Their actions to try to reach out to the foreign community can't be understated. Yet there are still people like Strelok who don't seem to acknowledge any of that, and just complain about Koreans in western tournaments, wanting to keep THEM out of the foreigner scene. It boggles my mind. Way to be totally fucking ungrateful.
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I strongly disagree with Strelok--
It seems lazy and almost bigoted to say "don't let in the koreans, they'll destroy us." I think it's an awesome opportunity for fan favorites from Korea to play against non-Korean fan favorites like Jinro, Morrow, etc. And the foreign scene really can't grow if it internalizes inferiority like Strelok does; as tournaments like MLG and NASL create prize pools large enough to make foreign players take SC2 training as seriously as a job, and foreigners continue to compete in Korea, I really don't see why the player field for SC2 can't be more equal.
+ Show Spoiler +If SanZenith can knock NesTea down to Up-and-Down matches, if MVP can knocked down to Code A, and if HuK can make Code S, I really think anything is possible. If TLO took down Nada or Tyler knocked out NesTea, wouldn't that be AMAZING?! This isn't MLG New York; it is precisely this unique mixture of foreigners and Koreans that makes it so intriguing and unique.
Finally-- I think I speak for a lot of casual spectators when I say that I'm a lot more interested in seeing players like MVP, MC and NesTea in this tournament than I am in seeing MouzStrelok, so his argument that inviting Koreans weakens the foreign e-sport scene is ridiculous. If Strelok takes down a top-level Korean player, I would be the first person to clap for him, and I think he'd change his tune about this issue. Tournaments like this bridge the global scene, and I applaud the organizers for putting together the strongest field they could while leaving qualifier spots open.
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I feel like a lot of confusion could come from TSL (Teamliquid Star League) and TSL (The SCV Life)...
I'm rooting for FD! Still a loyal fanboy since GSL1!
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i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD
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On March 17 2011 06:30 MorroW wrote: i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD
Hopefully, you'll be able to show off your zvz skills in Korea during the GSL World Championship. Make us foreigners proud .
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Oh man i love the interviews, TSL is definitly going to be awesome. I find it kinda funny though seeing the personality in strelok's, Taylor's and thorzain's interviews as opposed to fruitdealers classic korean, "must do better/impress the fans/show good games" crap lol.
On March 17 2011 06:30 MorroW wrote: i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD
To bad you uphold like 2% of the european zerg population lol, best of luck MorroW!
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United States7116 Posts
On March 17 2011 06:30 MorroW wrote: i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD
It's true, that's what he said. I don't think anyone criticizing Strelok has any problems with that. What they have issues with is the overall undertone of discrimination/xenophobia/bitterness/whatever you want to call it in the rest of his answer. Again, look at that last paragraph in his TSL rant. What was he trying to say there? That had nothing to do with foreigners. It is completely about how he just doesn't want to see Koreans play in the tournament for some reason.
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Interviews. Cool.
Aha and I like how everyone is picking on FD's interview. Shows that people will look for ANYTHING to complain about. Reminds me of how everyone hated/hates Rafael Nadal's interviews because they were "too humble" and robotic--he let his racquet do the talking.
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CMONNNNN Fruitdealer!!!
want you to win so badlyyyyyyyyy!
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I find most interviews with korean players almost offensive. Why do they even bother with interviews when all they want to provide is copy-paste answers without any trace of honest opinions.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 17 2011 06:46 Zaixer wrote: I find most interviews with korean players almost offensive. Why do they even bother with interviews when all they want to provide is copy-paste answers without any trace of honest opinions.
I find your lack of cultural acceptance to be almost offensive. Why do you even bother voicing your opinion on their interviews when all you want to provide is blatant cultural ignorance?
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Zaixer, how on earth is it offensive that FD is polite/business-like in his interviews?
The vast majority of successful professional athletes given answers/interviews like that (see: New England Patriots).
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On March 17 2011 06:46 Zaixer wrote: I find most interviews with korean players almost offensive. Why do they even bother with interviews when all they want to provide is copy-paste answers without any trace of honest opinions.
Look at each of the individual questions...how do you think he should have answered them differently?
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It's amazing how fast you can be labelled as a "racist" just because you are not fond of the interviews of the Koreans. I mean, everyone understands the cultural difference and I'm perfecly fine with that, but still I think it's amazingly lame and boring.
And yes, most professional athletes are being like this as well, that's why it's always fun to have people that act a bit differently and try to be more bold during their interviews.
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On March 17 2011 06:30 MorroW wrote: i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD
The reason why they invited some of the foreigners living in Korea is because Asia as a whole was excluded from the qualifies - based on location, not country of origin, and due to logisticl reasons.
Had they allowed Jinro, HuK, etc. qualify, they would've had to allow other people currently residing in Asian countries participate in some kind of a qualifier. They had stated they are currently incapable of handling something of this magnitude.
I think the system was fine with all that in mind.
Looking forward to Strelok vs. Tyler (rooting for Strelok) and FA vs. Morrow (FA fighting! ^__^). I also think Ciara will upset MC. O_o
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This is why i wanted select, not strelok. Any competitive player who is not willing to play with the best should not be in this TSL.
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Great interviews guys!!! I like how FruitDealer says that he'll go and show us that he is the old FruitDealer we all now!!! :D
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United States7116 Posts
On March 17 2011 07:07 Odeyuken wrote: It's amazing how fast you can be labelled as a "racist" just because you are not fond of the interviews of the Koreans. I mean, everyone understands the cultural difference and I'm perfecly fine with that, but still I think it's amazingly lame and boring.
And yes, most professional athletes are being like this as well, that's why it's always fun to have people that act a bit differently and try to be more bold during their interviews.
I'll assume that was mainly directed at me. Two things:
1. Cultural ignorance =/= racist. I didn't accuse anyone criticizing FD's interview of being racist.
2. You say everyone understands cultural difference. My point was that Zaixer evidently didn't. There's a difference between not being fond of their interviews and outright going "Oh man, that interview was almost offensive. He just lied through his teeth throughout the interview without providing any honest input!" That shows a clear lack of understanding of Korean culture.
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I actually have a question. If TSL is casted by replays, would the players/casters be playing on smurf or people can look up match history of casters/players and spoil us before the matches?
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I don't really like Strelok's "as a spectator" attitude. It's really easy to say "I'd rather not have Korean in these tournaments" when for competitors because they actually have something directly to gain from it. If there weren't Koreans, Strelok would have a much easier time getting money.
That doesn't necessarily mean spectators are hurt by seeing the best Koreans playing. On the contrary, watching MC compete is an absolute treat.
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Fruitdealer is a baller ... good luck!
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United States13896 Posts
On March 17 2011 07:27 baoluvboa wrote: I actually have a question. If TSL is casted by replays, would the players/casters be playing on smurf or people can look up match history of casters/players and spoil us before the matches? Players do not use their normal accounts to play any official TSL games. This was the case for TL Opens as well. Guest accounts are used to prevent people from looking up match histories and spoiling any results.
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To me, it felt like strelok's complaint was heavily oriented in the "half of the slots in this tournament are invites" and less entirely directed at the Koreans. Also, a ton of people are being matched up against a invited players in their first round - which is a little awkward when you earned a good seed (Yes, I know Strelok isn't one of the people who earned a good seed.)
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TL content surpasses my expectations once again!!
Fruitdealer fighting!!!!!!!! Big fan here, I know he won't see this particular comment, but
This is your tournament to win!
이 승리로 대회입니다! 과일 딜러와의 싸움!!
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Great interviews, and I think Strelok might have a point about the 16 invites, it would be more fair to have everyone qualify.
Though I'm sure half the hype-factor for this event is because of the invites, just think about it, compare the hype of a Thorzain vs Strelok match and TLO vs Nada..
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i really want tyler to show us some amazing games because his strength seems to be his preparation for matches. Since he's going to get the chance to prepare i really hope he goes far in this TSL.
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Great interviews. can't wait for tylers games.
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Sick interviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GL to everyone, personally, it can't come soon enough when tournament start. Hope to see great games!!!!!!!!!!! Ukraine FTW
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Zerg for the win :D However i think protoss will win the tournament... On a highly competitive level where every mineral or gas spend on unit or upgrade is crucial for me other races aren't even near protoss army variety and flexibility. Its sad that at this stage of the game a match is over as soon as zerg gets behind the protoss or even terran, while both have the units( voidrayes, colosuss, dts, blink stalkers, helions, tanks, marines).Nearly every unit after it gets upgraded becomes deadly to basically every zerg unit and can get you back in the game. Imagine good protoss, he can always dictate the battle with good forcefields or , storms or blink stalkers, while zerg can only turn back and hope it doesn't loose too many units and die little by little, without even killing a protoss unit. I think even the usage of infestors won't change the situation, as protoss and terran have feedback or emp( hardcounters to all casters), Even though fungal is a great spell, other infestors spells are basically useless vs someone on a high level. I don't understand how all protoss and terran units upgrades are making them in times stronger, while zerg unit upgrades should be made just in order to not die in the beginning of the game from the same protoss and terran units. To sum up I just wanna say it's sad that even though you want to make something as a zerg player, you can be easily countered even though the other 2 races are not prepared, while the cost effectiveness of protoss and terran units gives them the ability to damage zerg even though you know whats coming. Moreover compared to SC:BW all zerg units are nerfed, while other races units get additional upgrades(combat shields, feedback, siege tanks now don't overkill) and mixed in army are much more effective. Just ask yourself if you have seen a long terran or protoss vs zerg game where you saw the zerg win, as soon as both races get enough bases to get different high tech units or strong upgrades zerg is mostly dead. Marines or Maroders with 3 3 upgrades and 1 medivac with good positioning can kill zerglings, workers and buildings in just a matter of seconds, and while other races don't suffer when they divide their army, zerg cannot really afford it as part of the army dies even before they reach core of the battle. I love playing Sc2, as I loved playing Sc and Wc3, but at this stage I can compare Sc2 balance with the one in the end in wc3. One strong race, decimating everything ruthlessly, just because they have spells or units, which can hardcounter everything. For the wc3 player who can understand what im saying just think about ( windwalk=observer, ensnare=forcefield, spirit-link= balance shield) I mean why do you think nearly every single player from wc3 is playing mostly protoss and a little terran in SC2, simple cause they are sick of being on the other side, loosing to all this imbalances, standing helplessly and being destroyed.
User was temp banned for this post.
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All i want are amazing matches (=
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So Excited! I'm sure this comparison has been made before, but it's kinda like march madness. Will a relatively unknown foreigner take down a korean gsl champion? Who will be the Cinderella story? Just can't wait!
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I don't often read interviews of players I'm not a close fan of, but these were fantastic. Thank you! Really can't wait to see what each player pulls out of the bag after spending so much time preparing for each opponent.
TSL Fruit Dealer making the top 4 of the TSL would just be badass!
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FruitDealer is so modest, he is an awesome person and player, hope see him winning the tournament.
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Strelok lost all my respect. The balance of Koreans vs non Koreans is fine.
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So cool to see FruitDealer here! 과일장수 화이팅! Going to be tough to decide who to root for So many great players!
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Go FD! And Tyler! Strelok is full of it, all I have to say about that. Thorzain is exactly the kind of person who has my respect. Humble, modest, yet confident guy. He's not being cocky and going "oh yea foreigners are gonna have this in the bag". He knows his place as an underdog, good for him. Though I can't say I want him to beat FD. GL to them.
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Hehe, sounds like Strelok is scared. I hope Tyler dominates him to show that it's not just Koreans he should be worried about.
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United States10328 Posts
Clicking "NightEnd" in Liquibet yields "Unknown player!" Pretty much sums it up.
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I'd really love to see a FruitDealer v MorroW final now.
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On March 17 2011 07:33 hmunkey wrote: I don't really like Strelok's "as a spectator" attitude. It's really easy to say "I'd rather not have Korean in these tournaments" when for competitors because they actually have something directly to gain from it. If there weren't Koreans, Strelok would have a much easier time getting money.
That doesn't necessarily mean spectators are hurt by seeing the best Koreans playing. On the contrary, watching MC compete is an absolute treat. This sums up my thoughts exactly. As a spectator, this is the most loaded field we've yet seen. Sure, half of the players are invites, but they're some of the best players in the world. You're right; he really comes off as whining about the draw rather than looking at it from our perspective.
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On March 16 2011 14:33 LeFroMaGe wrote: Amazing once again! TL you cease to amaze with your content.
I think you want to say you never cease to amaze
/grammar nazi
Of the Koreans, I truly think Boxer and FD will see an early exit to this tourny. Just intuition I guess.
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Tyler fighting! I would love to see Tyler crush Fruitdealer, MC, and then MVP.
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Definitely rooting for Nony in the TSL. Looking for a relatively easy win versus Strelock and we'll see after that. Not sure how he'll do against FruitDealer (his likely opponent).
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These are just awesome. Hype levels went from 10/10 to a sideways 8  TYLER FIGHTING!!!!! THIS WILL BE EPIC!!!! Yeah I think that its generally agreed that Boxer is gonna be the first upset. Sad to see that of such an awesome player.
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so sexy interviews! just loving all the hype, but please make the counter tick faster!
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On March 17 2011 07:19 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 07:07 Odeyuken wrote: It's amazing how fast you can be labelled as a "racist" just because you are not fond of the interviews of the Koreans. I mean, everyone understands the cultural difference and I'm perfecly fine with that, but still I think it's amazingly lame and boring.
And yes, most professional athletes are being like this as well, that's why it's always fun to have people that act a bit differently and try to be more bold during their interviews. I'll assume that was mainly directed at me. Two things: 1. Cultural ignorance =/= racist. I didn't accuse anyone criticizing FD's interview of being racist. 2. You say everyone understands cultural difference. My point was that Zaixer evidently didn't. There's a difference between not being fond of their interviews and outright going "Oh man, that interview was almost offensive. He just lied through his teeth throughout the interview without providing any honest input!" That shows a clear lack of understanding of Korean culture.
Actually that was somebody else calling the racism card. I'm not that used to quoting every single post so things might seem a bit unclear... sorry about that. And I would tend to agree with you on the points you just made.
+ Show Spoiler +Still, FD was booooring 
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I lol'ed hardcore in the middle of class at strelok's "Well i wish Koreans weren't allowed, cause I at least wanted a shot at winning... or at least my team could have had a shot. IMO we shouldnt allow Koreans in tournaments cause they are too good. They already have the GSL, it's not fair that they can win TSL too."
I hope we don't see more of this from respected "foreign" players, because this was kind of embarrassing to read as a "foreign" starcraft player.
This is like USA going into the world cup, "can we just not invite england, brazil, spain? that'd be sweet!"
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On March 18 2011 05:16 mnofstl007 wrote:
This is like USA going into the world cup, "can we just not invite england, brazil, spain? that'd be sweet!"
what?

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United States13896 Posts
Ohhhh man Leviance we're gonna some angry brits on our hands man. Low blow!
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On March 18 2011 05:29 p4NDemik wrote: Ohhhh man Leviance we're gonna some angry brits on our hands man. Low blow!
Because USA beat england 1-1:D?
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Thanks for the interviews! Agreeing with a person or not, I like interviews with people who try to speak their honest opinion. Sometimes it can be hard making your thought process clear in the time frame of a short interview.
Strelok's interview was awesome, from his Assembly to TSL predictions it was pure enjoyment to read. I got the impression he really wanted the invites-grudge off his chest. I also the parts where the players talk about themselves, their personality shines through there.
On March 16 2011 17:30 Strelok wrote: In interview one of my phrazes was deleted by editor, which totally changed whole meaning. I complainted not about koreans being invited, but about very big number of invited slots and proposed to change it either way: or invite foreigners in Korea or invite only koreans and let the foreigners in Korea qualify themselves. I asked editor to change it right now.
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Lol the koreans are so nice. They dont expect us to support them just bcause they havent been getting to r04 every gsl. We support you to the end fruitdealer! (and boxer)
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On March 17 2011 07:09 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 06:30 MorroW wrote: i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD The reason why they invited some of the foreigners living in Korea is because Asia as a whole was excluded from the qualifies - based on location, not country of origin, and due to logisticl reasons. Had they allowed Jinro, HuK, etc. qualify, they would've had to allow other people currently residing in Asian countries participate in some kind of a qualifier. They had stated they are currently incapable of handling something of this magnitude. I think the system was fine with all that in mind. No they wouldn't, they could just have allowed foreigners living in Korea to participate and thereby making them ineligible from being invites.
Strelok has a valid point. As the invites was obviously based on (1) promoting players on Team Liquid (2) popularity and only lastly results it undermines the "logistical argument". An invite system put in place to replace a qualification system would only be based on results.
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United States7116 Posts
On March 18 2011 01:27 Odeyuken wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 07:19 HolyArrow wrote:On March 17 2011 07:07 Odeyuken wrote: It's amazing how fast you can be labelled as a "racist" just because you are not fond of the interviews of the Koreans. I mean, everyone understands the cultural difference and I'm perfecly fine with that, but still I think it's amazingly lame and boring.
And yes, most professional athletes are being like this as well, that's why it's always fun to have people that act a bit differently and try to be more bold during their interviews. I'll assume that was mainly directed at me. Two things: 1. Cultural ignorance =/= racist. I didn't accuse anyone criticizing FD's interview of being racist. 2. You say everyone understands cultural difference. My point was that Zaixer evidently didn't. There's a difference between not being fond of their interviews and outright going "Oh man, that interview was almost offensive. He just lied through his teeth throughout the interview without providing any honest input!" That shows a clear lack of understanding of Korean culture. Actually that was somebody else calling the racism card. I'm not that used to quoting every single post so things might seem a bit unclear... sorry about that. And I would tend to agree with you on the points you just made. + Show Spoiler +Still, FD was booooring 
Fair enough. I agree with you that actually playing the racism card is pretty uncalled for in most cases.
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Wow that's a pretty friggin good interview. I guess he's gotten like interview training after that like most pros in sports. I suppose if you havn't been asked the same question a gazillion times, you can give a more elaborate answere
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Very good interviews, thank you for these!
PS: FD sounds like a little sweetheart! Gl mate.
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dont be jealous strelok, start practicing as hard as the koreans and ull get preferred treatment. i hope and think boxer will crush knigthend.
and fruitdealer i still watch ur GSL 1 highlights video to pump myself up <3
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On March 17 2011 04:03 rafaliusz wrote: I'm suprised how many people are bashing Strelok here, he's totally right. But when I think about it most of these people are very new to Starcraft, e-sport and competitive gaming. You guys don't even know how it was before SC2, koreans didn't give a shit to foreign scene for 10 years, why would we start inviting them to our events? To be politically correct and avoid those ridiculous "stop being racist" comments? That is insane. Moreover there is another obvious reason. All these top korean pros will just own foreigners, before IEM nobody really knew how big the skill gap between these two scenes is. Now we know that we can't match with them in skill and the foreigner-v-korean games will be completely one-sided. I guess TL didn't know that before invites and even I thought that the gap is not that huge. If there are smart people in TL staff I'm sure they regret their decision and are scared of the upcoming games. I suspect that TSL4 will be foreign-only again.
i dont mind watching koreans crush NA/euro players. it's quite entertaining.
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Great job TL, really good to see the players thoughts on other people and themselves excellent question list. The best of luck to them all specially Tyler who has a tough bracket and fruit dealer who is being a bit hard on himself
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On March 18 2011 07:53 Blueblister wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 07:09 maybenexttime wrote:On March 17 2011 06:30 MorroW wrote: i think strelok said that its silly to invite foreigners who are living in korea as 'korean invites'. he thinks jinro and idra etc would have to qualify just like the rest of us, which i think wouldnt be too unfair. again im not sure if strelok meant this or not but this is what i got from it :p
on a sidenote, nice interviews but cant help to think ive been trolled by FD bashing on my zvz xD The reason why they invited some of the foreigners living in Korea is because Asia as a whole was excluded from the qualifies - based on location, not country of origin, and due to logisticl reasons. Had they allowed Jinro, HuK, etc. qualify, they would've had to allow other people currently residing in Asian countries participate in some kind of a qualifier. They had stated they are currently incapable of handling something of this magnitude. I think the system was fine with all that in mind. No they wouldn't, they could just have allowed foreigners living in Korea to participate and thereby making them ineligible from being invites. Strelok has a valid point. As the invites was obviously based on (1) promoting players on Team Liquid (2) popularity and only lastly results it undermines the "logistical argument". An invite system put in place to replace a qualification system would only be based on results.
The "logistical argument" is also language barrier. Yes, there's Korean/English speaking people involved who invited the Korean players currently in TSL3, but if there were opens, that's a considerably larger number of players to coordinate, and instead of simply a bracket and a schedule, there has to be explanations for how the qualifiers work, and so on. It's not impossible by any means, but TL only has so much resources since it's volunteer work, generally.
I can see how it feels unfair to work so hard solely to get into TSL and have others simply invited, but I'd rather see us welcoming Koreans as potential friends and guests into the foreign community, which is at least one reason why FD's interview was a bit generic (guests should be manner too). His interview already referenced, in which he jokes about the Infested Terran against Nada on Arkanoid, was fantastic and anything but the "typical" some are complaining about.
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Fruitdealer has such a badass pic. It's all white guys in weird poses (still love you Tyler!) and then this beastly Korean with a smirk, looking down upon the camera... I still think he's going to roll Thorzain, no matter what he thinks himself. "The sun's either going to rise tomorrow, or turn into a tomato..." -iNcontroL on Fruitdealer vs Thorzain
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BL Strelok, you lost. Not wanting Koreans in the tournament is only because you don't think you can win against them, but I guess we'll never see. :X
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Looks like Strelok doesn't need to worry about Korean domination; North America was more than he could handle.
Tyler Fighting!
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thorzain gunna win the tsl, he just owned fruit dealer without trying
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