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Odeyuken
France94 Posts
Compared to this the FD interview did sound a little dull to me... I found the following sentence particularly sad : I might not seem so important because I haven’t been doing so great lately, but if you keep an eye on me from now on, I’ll repay it with quality games. Maybe it was the translation, but really... I guess I will never get the Korean mentality =( | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:22 Odeyuken wrote: It is great to see that some people actually have something to say in their interviews. Props to Strelok, I agree with him on every single point but ONE : imo TSL MUST involve Korean players so that we can witness the infamous Korea vs. rest_of_the_world challenge. But apart from that, I really liked his comments about BoxeR vs. NightEnD and HayprO vs Kas. Compared to this the FD interview did sound a little dull to me... I found the following sentence particularly sad : Maybe it was the translation, but really... I guess I will never get the Korean mentality =( You'll never understand why people act humble and polite? I personally find the attitude to be quite endearing. Sure, it gets a bit boring to hear most Koreans talk like that, but when it comes down to it, all it is is a show of humility, which I think is good for any person striving to be good at something. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10763 Posts
Most/many other sports are nothing like that. A little "shittalk" is totally normal in a competetive enviroment. | ||
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gavss
Turkey94 Posts
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:29 Velr wrote: Or you could say it's boring and a pretty "Asian" thing... Most/many other sports are nothing like that. A little "shittalk" is totally normal in a competetive enviroment. And Koreans do shit talk at times. But, back to the specific situation: What was there for FruitDealer to say? It's true that he's been underperforming lately. Would you rather he blame balance or bad luck? No - he's explicitly blaming himself, and apologizing to his fans for not playing good games for them. It seems like a perfectly stand-up thing to do. Would you rather he be unapologetic and tell his fans to "deal with it" or something when he underperforms? You might say it's boring, but being that polite is likely the Korean norm in interviews. I always found it funny and rather annoying that many in the western scene seem to approve of shit-talking, arrogance, and BM, and treat Korean shows of humility and politeness in interviews as boring. Don't forget that they happen to be ahead of the rest of the world in actual skill level right now - I find it far more impressive and admirable that most of them possess such humble attitudes in the face of their ridiculously vigorous practice regimes. They could just as easily act like asses and condescend toward the entire foreign scene, but they don't. I find that to be extremely admirable. | ||
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gamefan15
50 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:08 HolyArrow wrote: Where does he single out Koreans? How about this entire paragraph, which sounds utterly retarded and makes little if any sense at all: "And also I think that success of Koreans is pretty bad for TSL, because for example I, as spectator, really prefer to watch very nicely prepared non-Koreans against each rather than watching the usual games of Koreans, many who don't care about this tournament. If I want to watch Koreans play, I'd go to GomTV.net." And this entire piece: "I really feel that they shouldn't invite Koreans and make it like the last TSLs: an event for non-Asian community..." (Yes, I realize he also acknowledged the possibility of inviting only "true Koreans" and making the rest of the GSL foreigners qualify like everyone else, which does indeed work toward his credit a bit, but his last paragraph that I just quoted really seems to flat out say that he simply doesn't want Koreans in the TSL, so it leads me to conclude that he threw in the "true Koreans" part just to pad himself a bit from sounding completely discriminatory). It's hard to read too much into things when his statements are right there, ESPECIALLY that last paragraph. It just feels rather ugly and bitter in my eyes. I'm not simply trying to find faults with Strelok when they might not exist; I don't even know the guy in the SC2 scene. But he did make a pretty bad first impression on me. he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. | ||
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enzym
Germany1034 Posts
And I don't agree with people's criticism of Strelok at all. Yes, this time around the TSL aimed to bring us "The legends" vs "The foreigners", because it is a unique chance we could have never had in Broodwar, with players being closer together than they could have ever been there, yet still retainining their history from that game. It is a trade-off the TSL management has been very aware of from the beginning, I'm sure, but chose to use this great chance anyways instead of just letting it slip by. TSL management also stated that they would have liked to provide qualifiers for the Korean side, but just didn't have the resources to do so. Strelok on the other hand has every right to look at the TSL from whatever perspective he wants, as does everybody else, and his point is reasonable and justified and you can't give him shit for that. Disagree with him if you want, but don't give him shit just because he has an opinion different from yours. Liked the last three interviews the most, each being very peculiar/unique to the player. FruidDealer's Korean style of answering was a bit of a let down despite being the known style of answering for Koreans, but it provided good colour/contrast to the other players, which still made it fun. But of course Tyler is and will always be the champion and take this tournament, hands down. GO TYLER!!!! | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:31 gavss wrote: haypro doesn't deserve the spot. i think kas will eliminate him easily. I'll bet you the opposite. How much? :D | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:38 gamefan15 wrote: he basically liked more the format of the past TSLs where apparently there were less invites and the foreign scene was duking it out on theirselves. this also comes from the history of starcraft and bw where the korean scene was miles ahead and both scenes more isolated to themselves. you can agree with this or not but give this guy a break. you cant expect that everyone immediately changes their mindset 100% just because we have a new situation with starcraft 2 when you are used to something different. the rest imo is just getting butthurt because of missing the most possible "political correct" way to express this concern. There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:42 enzym wrote: Awesome interviews! And I don't agree with people's criticism of Strelok at all. Yes, this time around the TSL aimed to bring us "The legends" vs "The foreigners", because it is a unique chance we could have never had in Broodwar, with players being closer together than they could have ever been there, yet still retainining their history from that game. It is a trade-off the TSL management has been very aware of from the beginning, I'm sure, but chose to use this great chance anyways instead of just letting it slip by. TSL management also stated that they would have liked to provide qualifiers for the Korean side, but just didn't have the resources to do so. Strelok on the other hand has every right to look at the TSL from whatever perspective he wants, as does everybody else, and his point is reasonable and justified and you can't give him shit for that. Disagree with him if you want, but don't give him shit just because he has an opinion different from yours. Liked the last three interviews the most, each being very peculiar/unique to the player. FruidDealer's Korean style of answering was a bit of a let down despite being the known style of answering for Koreans, but it provided good colour/contrast to the other players, which still made it fun. But of course Tyler is and will always be the champion and take this tournament, hands down. GO TYLER!!!! Tell me, how is his last paragraph about not wanting to even watch Korean play and preferring "prepared non-Koreans", and the statement, "If I wanted to watch Koreans play I'd go to gomtv.net" reasonable and justified at all? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that. It seems like everyone who's defending Strelok is completely ignoring that last paragraph of his little TSL rant. I already acknowledged that I can understand his criticism of the invite system. You can't, however, excuse the obvious anti-Korean sentiment clouding his answer by saying "Oh, that's just his opinion". | ||
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Casablancas
Denmark145 Posts
If the invites get their ass handed to them in the TSL you can complain, but w8 and see... As for the koreans, what kind of tournament would it be with out the best players in the world? Would be like if US hosted a soccer tournament, with only US players and hyping it to be the best tournament in the world. And if people like Strelok, Goody, Thorzain, Ciara could qualify along wiht house hold names like White-Ra, TLO, Morrow etc. What stops Kiwikaki, Tarson, Sjow and so on from qualifiying? | ||
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SecondSandwich
United States319 Posts
On March 16 2011 17:01 Talin wrote: I can't believe people are that skeptical about Boxer. Sure he probably won't win TSL or go very far in it, but Nightend definitely isn't the sort of player that can be a favorite against him just yet. I can't imagine why people would favor Nightend over any of the Code S or Code A GSL players. Or even most top foreigners for that matter. Seconded. Though Boxer has had some mixed results (and has been demoted to code A), he is still REALLY GOOD AT SC2. It seems that people start out thinking "he's certainly not the best Korean player" and somehow end up thinking "He is not favored to win against top foreign players". Those two statements are not equal. Careful with your logic--this is the Emperor after all ;-) | ||
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enzym
Germany1034 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:47 HolyArrow wrote: Tell me, how is his last paragraph about not wanting to even watch Korean play and preferring "prepared non-Koreans", and the statement, "If I wanted to watch Koreans play I'd go to gomtv.net" reasonable and justified at all? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that. Personal preference, probably influenced by the history of TSL and a little hyperbolic because of his disappointment with the drop in competitive quality/fairness for TSL's decision to let the drawbacks of no Korean qualifiers fly. It is as reasonable as saying that you don't like vanilla ice cream. In fact it is more reasonable than that, but needs no more justification. He also didn't attack anybody even remotely as aggressively as the people commenting on him. | ||
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Odeyuken
France94 Posts
You'll never understand why people act humble and polite? I personally find the attitude to be quite endearing. Sure, it gets a bit boring to hear most Koreans talk like that, but when it comes down to it, all it is is a show of humility, which I think is good for any person striving to be good at something. I agree with you, some people are humble and I do have a lot of respect for this. What I don't understand is the fact that nearly ALL of them act like this when interviewed... You always get the same pattern : "I will do my best, fighting ~~~", "I think he's very strong but I will train non stop so I can defeat him" or "I think the game is very balanced the better player wins". Don't get me wrong, I like this attitude when it is genuine, and maybe it is the case with FD. Now the problem is : you see this with almost every Korean when he is interviewed. It was the same with Warcraft 3. As somebody posted earlier, it is possible that whenever most Koreans are asked to do an official statement, they'd rather not get too critical and/or personal about it, so that the community does not look at them the way that Strelok is being looked at right now : somebody who complains about the tournament and expresses his opinion in a very straight-forward manner. | ||
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Spidinko
Slovakia1174 Posts
I don't mind that some koreans got invited. I just hope they won't roll over foreigners  And if they do, hey, we still have NASL | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:56 enzym wrote: Personal preference, probably influenced by the history of TSL and a little hyperbolic because of his disappointment with the drop in competitive quality/fairness for TSL's decision to let the drawbacks of no Korean qualifiers fly. It is as reasonable as saying that you don't like vanilla ice cream. In fact it is more reasonable than that, but needs no more justification. He also didn't attack anybody even remotely as aggressively as the people commenting on him. You're completely sidestepping how inherently discriminatory his final paragraph sounded. There are plenty of ways to express disillusionment at how TSL is handling itself without throwing in a handful of snide snipes at Korean play. I'm repeating myself like a broken record because people seem insistent on turning his statements into mere disillusionment with the way TSL is being handled, when, in actuality, mere disillusionment with the way TSL is being handled is only half of what he's saying (the other half being the stuff that I take offense at). Everyone seems to keep missing the point. YES, I realize that his answer expresses frustration at the amount of invites. Yes, I acknowledge that that's a valid complaint. But OTHER parts of his answer clearly say, "I do not want Koreans in the TSL". That's a COMPLETELY separate issue from the invites, so stop ignoring the offensive half of what he's saying and trying to sum up his answer in a falsely innocent way. | ||
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DrakeFZX3
United States925 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:56 Odeyuken wrote: I agree with you, some people are humble and I do have a lot of respect for this. What I don't understand is the fact that nearly ALL of them act like this when interviewed... You always get the same pattern : "I will do my best, fighting ~~~", "I think he's very strong but I will train non stop so I can defeat him" or "I think the game is very balanced the better player wins". Don't get me wrong, I like this attitude when it is genuine, and maybe it is the case with FD. Now the problem is : you see this with almost every Korean when he is interviewed. It was the same with Warcraft 3. As somebody posted earlier, it is possible that whenever most Koreans are asked to do an official statement, they'd rather not get too critical and/or personal about it, so that the community does not look at them the way that Strelok is being looked at right now : somebody who complains about the tournament and expresses his opinion in a very straight-forward manner. It's a cultural thing. Humility and being polite is something that is embedded deep in a lot of asian cultures. I should know I am one of them. | ||
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gamefan15
50 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:45 HolyArrow wrote: There is no most possible "politically correct" way to express the desire to arbitrarily restrict a certain nationality or race. There's a big difference from "liking a format of the past TSLs" and making it abundantly clear that he doesn't want any Koreans competing in his precious tournament. Anyone interpreting what Strelok said as mere discontent with TSL 3's current format is completely missing the obvious anti-Korean sentiment in his post. I mean, read that last paragraph. It seems like he doesn't even like Korean play for some odd reason ("the usual games of Koreans"?) and that he wants to keep both scenes isolated - neither of which are admirable sentiments in my eyes. TBH I usually don't care about political correctness. I make seriously un-PC jokes with my friends all the time. It's only when I perceive blatant, sincere discrimination that I feel the need to speak out. if your bold part is true why does he concede then that they might use some invitespots for the "true koreans". he seem to be just not happy yet with the amount of changes, invites and so on compared to the previous tournaments probably due to the reasons I mentioned. | ||
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
Fruitdealers interview was great imo, he tells it as it is instead of making excuses. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On March 16 2011 20:52 Base wrote: The difference here is that without a Korean qualifier, it makes it literally impossible for the Liquid' players to qualify for TSL. That's just horribly unfair to them - they've given up a lot to go to Korea and play for Liquid', and not inviting them is a bit of a slap in the face. Whether or not they were the most qualified is another debate, but given that Team Liquid is hosting the tournament, compromises must be made. Notice that TLO was not invited but left to qualify on his own. Notice that TorcH was not invited, and thus "screwed." Notice that Artosis was not invited and thus "screwed." Neither of these two are "headline" players, but both are players that have given up a lot to go to Korea, as have the Liquid` guys, and yet they aren't getting this treatment. There is an inherent bias here. In the end, it's TL's choice, and the TSL will still be kick-ass, but please don't act like the Liquid` guys were the ONLY ones to go to Korea when SC2 dawned. I'm not saying the Liquid` guys don't deserve it, although I don't agree with just mass inviting all of them that are in Korea due to performance reasons, but someone said "Well why wouldn't you invite the Liquid` guys to the TSL?" and I was pointing out that - in the past - they were not automatically invited themselves. | ||
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