EPTGG.net bans all TSL2 abusers for six months - Page 6
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MageKirby
United States535 Posts
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Intr3pid
Switzerland336 Posts
2) I agree that the detailed extent of the punishment should be announced beforehand. This is not just to make it clear, that cheating is not allowed (which IS common sense), but just to make it less probable for players to cheat to begin with. Then they can calculate, ok if they catch me, I'll pretty much gonna be out of the tournament scene for that long. Especially good players will be less prone to cheat, which is good for the scene. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Celial
2602 Posts
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
everyone who thinks of cheating in any (hopefully just as and even more succesful) future TSL events will think thrice of the risk of being caught and effectively losing face and committing reputational suicide. some people are prolly dumb enough to not really think of the consequences and/or care too little (dimaga stroke me as that) but the rest will know what to expect if they think of any fishy moves. | ||
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Lord_of_Chaos
Sweden372 Posts
On December 18 2009 17:51 Celial wrote: Who exactly cares about the rankings and noobbash tournaments GG provides? I mean it's a great sign, but the effects are rather mediocre. Feel free to give us advice on how to punish them further. It's not a question on how effective the punishment will be, it's about taking a stand against abusing. As pointed out, some people will think it's too lenient. We decided that this form of abuse is not as bad as maphacking and therefore did not warrant a full one year ban. However it is still a high level event with a huge prize pool, and a huge amount of work put in to it. That means we couldn't just sit back and pretend like nothing. Also, if they ever get caught for anything again, it's a life time ban. That means no DreamHack, no replay uploads, no coverage of their games. No publicity what so ever from GG.net. That would hurt even the best players. They are on a tight leash now, and will be so for the rest of their careers, even after this ban. And to the question if we are punishing them for this to stop them from doing it again, the answer is no. Our punishment cannot stop a player from abusing as we're not locking him up. It's simply revenge. The community's urge for justice has to be satisfied, and only revenge can do that. That is a major part of all judicial systems. They hurt the community, we hurt them back, even if it's ever so little. However, if we are lucky, this stand against abusing might deterr a few from abusing in the future, or deterr these players from doing it again. Unlikely, but we hope for it. | ||
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Rus_Brain
Russian Federation1893 Posts
For this season even a ban was too hard (the resetstats would have sufficed). But additional condition could be included the next season or next tournament. Lifetime ban. Well, the person who actualy declare it should take the responsibility for death penalty. Who will? Or some 20-25 year guy realy think he can show "the way of light" only because he is an admin? Yet again, make the rules. You want ban? Okay, so be it. But in this case ban for every abuse, not for "so good event with a big prize pool". | ||
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Vernom
Spain374 Posts
On December 18 2009 18:31 Lord_of_Chaos wrote: Feel free to give us advice on how to punish them further. Permaban | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
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_Grazze_
834 Posts
EDIT: Yes, GG.net is right in punishing them as well. If a long distance runner cheats in the olympics, should he be able to participate in the world championships? Creds to both GG.net and TL! | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On December 18 2009 19:05 meRz wrote: Really good move by GG.net, and I'm glad TL.net is planning further punishments. Unless you draw a really hard line and point out that cheating really is forbidden and punishable, people will just continue doing it. It doesn't matter that the cheaters happened to be some of the very top players in the foreign community, if they cheat, they're out, simple as that. Keep it clean and rely on your skill and determination instead of trying shit like this. Exactly, zero tolerance for cheaters! | ||
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CoL_Drake
Germany455 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:47 Korn wrote: This aspect of the Starcraft community hasn't really changed much, it reminds me of discussions in 1999 when the first map hackers/abusers got caught in proper competitions. List of invalid arguments that were used then and are still being used now: 1) "But they didn't need the abuse/hack to quality..." That's like arguing that a fast runner who took Gold in the Olympics but was doped shouldn't be punished because he didn't need the doping in the first place. Cheating/abusing is quite simply wrong and unfair and a sign of huge disrespect for the game, the tournament, the tournament organisers and of course all the players who do not cheat or abuse. 2) "But they deserve a second chance / they shouldn't be banned for that long, etc" Well, apparently they should. It's a huge disgrace that so many players still cheat at Starcraft nowadays. One of the key reasons here is that players simple historically didn't have to fear much. I mean, think about it: there is such a huge culture of leniency that even very decent personalities are starting to cheat. 3) "Oh, but they just abused in this tournament" Well, this tournament involves a price pool or more than $20.000 USD. If you cheat others out of that money or a part of that money, you'd usually face criminal charges. Just because it's a computer game doesn't make this less worse. All the cheating and abusing takes place at the expensve of all the legit players, who have a right to a fair and proper competition and a fair and proper reward for their performance. 4) "But these players shouldn't be banned, they are so good ..." The easy truth of the matter is that while they might be very good players, they are very very bad for the entire Starcraft community, the perception of the game and of course any sort of competitive Starcraft that most here enjoy very much. I think the entire Starcraft, or entire e-Sports community, should endorse a very strict and very consequential anti-cheating and anti-abuse policy. korn said everything ! | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
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CoL_Drake
Germany455 Posts
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KwarK
United States43271 Posts
Yeah. Permaban. Abusing in a ladder like this is way worse than hacking in normal games or clan wars or whatever. There are players who played hundreds of games to get top 48 who wouldn't have made it if the abusers had gotten away with it. Hacking one game gives the victim a negative result from that one game. Abusing a ladder gives your victim a negative result from all the games he played in it. Furthermore, in terms of seriousness/$ value TSL is way, way above any random tournaments, leagues or clan wars. We're talking serious $ here. The only type of cheating which is in the same region of bad as this would be hacking in WCG qualifiers. | ||
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
On December 18 2009 19:16 MorroW[MB] wrote: its good to see that ggnet and tlnet can have a good trust with each other when it comes to important stuff as banning cheaters Yeah I thought the same And I agree with everithing korn wrote about the issue! What I want to add is that the point of "they didnt need to cheat, they are godd enough without it" makes them look even more stupid. Why the hell do people cheat and risk all this when they dont need to do so to qualify?? I really dont get it!! | ||
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Oxygen
Canada3581 Posts
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
On December 18 2009 19:50 Oxygen wrote: does Team Liquid have the legal right to sue over abuse? i.e. can they demand penalty fines? the players were required to sign contracts or something? | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On December 18 2009 18:31 Lord_of_Chaos wrote: Also, if they ever get caught for anything again, it's a life time ban. That means no DreamHack, no replay uploads, wait so if i get caught cheating you wont post any more replays of me? hey guys i gave ret a freewin that last game | ||
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