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On November 02 2011 01:24 Xalorian wrote:
It's cool and all... it's a great thing that a barcraft in MTL is getting so much attention. Really nice for e-sports. But...
20$...? Seriously? It's the price for a spectator pass for the actual MLG... And for the same price, you get 3 days, you get to see the players and drinks are less expensive... how is that not a scam?
There's a production value around it... its not some crappy bar with a monitor. If they can make good money out of it, its a good thing for eSports. It will entice others to do the same and then, with more competition and different offers, we will have a better scale of prices. I won't be attending Mtl Barcraft, because it is too expensive for my student budget, but its in no way a scam.
Has far as I know if people are ready to go at 20$ (which is barely an hour worth of work anyway)... why not?? If 20$ is too expensive for you, just don't go or better yet organize something and make it less expensive. But really, I dont see how calling it a scam will ever do any good for the community.
Good luck at the MTL Barcraft people and makes has much money as you can... and do it over and over again... amen! Viva la revolutione 
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also take into accoutn that a cinema ticket is 13$ and to eat u alrdy bust de 20%, no ambiances and only for about 2 hours
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On November 02 2011 03:45 Grimberht wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 01:24 Xalorian wrote:
It's cool and all... it's a great thing that a barcraft in MTL is getting so much attention. Really nice for e-sports. But...
20$...? Seriously? It's the price for a spectator pass for the actual MLG... And for the same price, you get 3 days, you get to see the players and drinks are less expensive... how is that not a scam? There's a production value around it... its not some crappy bar with a monitor. If they can make good money out of it, its a good thing for eSports. It will entice others to do the same and then, with more competition and different offers, we will have a better scale of prices. I won't be attending Mtl Barcraft, because it is too expensive for my student budget, but its in no way a scam. Has far as I know if people are ready to go at 20$ (which is barely an hour worth of work anyway)... why not?? If 20$ is too expensive for you, just don't go or better yet organize something and make it less expensive. But really, I dont see how calling it a scam will ever do any good for the community. Good luck at the MTL Barcraft people and makes has much money as you can... and do it over and over again... amen! Viva la revolutione
If it's 20$ because it costs a lot to run (i'm seriously sceptical, that's it.) then it's all fine. But if it is to make a lot of money at the expense of the actual MLG... i'm not so sure. Well... if barcraft become a way to make easy money for some guys that run a place, i don't see how it is good for e-sports. 25 000 peoples watching MLG at barcraft is 24 999 less view for MLG stream... Wich mean less money for MLG, therefore less money for e-sports.
I'm not saying that it is indeed the case for sure, i'm just saying that it does look a bit like that.
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On November 02 2011 03:50 mark05 wrote:also take into accoutn that a cinema ticket is 13$ and to eat u alrdy bust de 20%, no ambiances and only for about 2 hours
That's true.
But cinema have to buy the movies, and THAT is expensive. Club 1234 don't have to pay MLG to have the right to stream the event and make money out of it. And Cinema do not charge 7,50 for a single drink.
I'm not screaming "SCAM!", i'm just wondering if it's normal to charge that much...
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Why are people whining about the price of tickets? If you find it is too expensive, you don't need to go.
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On November 02 2011 04:13 HypernovA wrote:
Why are people whining about the price of tickets? If you find it is too expensive, you don't need to go.
It's called principle.
Becore Club 1234 barcraft were actually there just to have fun and was free except for drinks.
Now if bar holders start to use that to make a shitload of easy money, MLG, Blizzard, GSL, NASL, etc will start to charge events for rights. And if that happen, that will hurt more that it will help e-sports, since most barcraft throught out the world can't afford that.
If the 20$ is really justified then that's fine, like I said...
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On November 02 2011 04:26 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:13 HypernovA wrote:
Why are people whining about the price of tickets? If you find it is too expensive, you don't need to go. It's called principle. Becore Club 1234 barcraft were actually there just to have fun and was free except for drinks. Now if bar holders start to use that to make a shitload of easy money, MLG, Blizzard, GSL, NASL, etc will start to charge events for rights. And if that happen, that will hurt more that it will help e-sports, since most barcraft throught out the world can't afford that. If the 20$ is really justified then that's fine, like I said...
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The last Barcraft was not free and it was 20$ as well and no one was crying about it. Now that Marko had better production value and a better atmosphere, the same price he charged is now outrageously expensive? Last I checked, 1234 is a business and the main goal of a business is to make money.
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On November 02 2011 04:34 HypernovA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:26 Xalorian wrote:On November 02 2011 04:13 HypernovA wrote:
Why are people whining about the price of tickets? If you find it is too expensive, you don't need to go. It's called principle. Becore Club 1234 barcraft were actually there just to have fun and was free except for drinks. Now if bar holders start to use that to make a shitload of easy money, MLG, Blizzard, GSL, NASL, etc will start to charge events for rights. And if that happen, that will hurt more that it will help e-sports, since most barcraft throught out the world can't afford that. If the 20$ is really justified then that's fine, like I said... You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The last Barcraft was not free and it was 20$ as well and no one was crying about it. Now that Marko had better production value and a better atmosphere, the same price he charged is now outrageously expensive? Last I checked, 1234 is a business and the main goal of a business is to make money.
I didn't meant that before this event Club 1234 was free to entry, but that club 1234 was actually the first barcraft to have that sort of entry fee, and that most barcraft around the world are not charging a dime, but are still making money out of drinks.
If Club start to see barcraft as a way to make a lot of money, it's no good for e-sport. MLG will just start to charge barcraft around the world.
And again, i'm not crying, I was asking for explanation.
Sorry if my english suck.
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On November 02 2011 04:37 Xalorian wrote:
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The last Barcraft was not free and it was 20$ as well and no one was crying about it. Now that Marko had better production value and a better atmosphere, the same price he charged is now outrageously expensive? Last I checked, 1234 is a business and the main goal of a business is to make money. [/QUOTE
I didn't meant that before this event Club 1234 was free to entry, but that club 1234 was actually the first barcraft to have that sort of entry fee, and that other barcraft around the world are not charging a dime.
Hi, I'll chime in and hopefully have you see it our way.
The reason there is an entry fee for Barcraft in this club is because of two things; 1. Because you're asking for it to be in business when it typically is not, this has a cost or a renting charge of using the space for an event. Marko is the manager, not the owner, so he doesn't have totally reign or control of the establishment (he might as well though). It starts at 12 and ends til 9 about. That's just before it cuts in into the club scene.dance/whatever. I don't even know if he remains open after for the party-goers (do they go on Sunday?)
That being said, the reason it costs more is because it accommodates to more people. For regular Barcrafts, they do it in a bar, the establishment doesn't have to do anything extra: just have StarCraft on television and in exchange, everyone there must order a drink or meal or something (ranging from 3 to 9 dollars is my estimate). HD is paid by the Barcraft goers and nothing more is offered.
This is a club, not a bar, and it's happening during off-hours, which means the Club needs to do more for the same thing, even if it lowers it's prospects. Just service alone and a proper screening has a cost more than the Bar who does nothing more but allow a television hooked up a large plasma screen. They get more business with almost no cost.
For the club, they get more business, but it also gets more demand for proper service: drinks are customary for a barcraft and for a club as well. Our surround system is monstrous, but that has a cost too. Nice projectors: it costs too. Setting up starts at 9. So you're paying people for a 12-hour shift after they did a pretty long shift til 3 in the morning (some of them).
Everything costs money, including all the people they're hiring who, probably have worked late last night the night before.
In conclusion, there is no real reason why you have to go to this barcraft and if you dislike the price, you are free to organize your own at a bar or at a school. We're going to organize this Barcraft but keep it fair and maintain the club afloat. For the record, I checked out getting my school's auditorium for a barcraft: seats about 600 people; it's a three figure cost to rent it out.
Hope this helps.
If Club start to see barcraft as a way to make a lot of money, it's no good for e-sport.
The system works like this: Go in debt by upping the value of the event with sparkly stuff, better projectors, sound system, etc. -> Get a return based on a number of goers -> subject money made by money spent -> use rest of the money to up the value for next time + profit.
All businesses look for profit. MLG is a business before it's an event. You're missing the concept that people can make money and host a killer event. You can have two motivations and two intents on an event. If you do everything in your power to make the event the best it can be, a profit is expected by rationale of: "you get what you put in".
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I understand the club is opening up during off hours but I was surprised to hear that it had an entrance fee.
Imo, organizing a barcraft should be done because you love starcraft, not because you want to make a profit.
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On November 02 2011 05:29 temps wrote:
I understand the club is opening up during off hours but I was surprised to hear that it had an entrance fee.
Imo, organizing a barcraft should be done because you love starcraft, not because you want to make a profit.
It's fine if you don't read the whole answer, but please don't say something that has already been covered by the post above yours.
It's disrespectful and has everyone else view you as someone lower than who you truly are.
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All I have to say is wow, good luck and have fun everyone.
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On November 02 2011 05:29 temps wrote:
I understand the club is opening up during off hours but I was surprised to hear that it had an entrance fee.
Imo, organizing a barcraft should be done because you love starcraft, not because you want to make a profit.
hello #stupidpost
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On November 02 2011 04:45 Torte de Lini wrote:
What he said.
Thanks,
Well, it does sound way better that way. Thanks for this in depth explanation.
I just hope that people are not using MLG as a publicity to make a lot of money, because that do not help e-sport growth nor MLG at all. But if all what you said is true, then it's all fine.
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On November 02 2011 06:23 Xalorian wrote:Thanks, Well, it does sound way better that way. Thanks for this in depth explanation. I just hope that people are not using MLG as a publicity to make a lot of money, because that do not help e-sport growth nor MLG at all. But if all what you said is true, then it's all fine.
You have to realize that MLG is a vehicle to promoting events, hence all their sponsors. They're not necessarily doing it for competitive gaming's growth, but believe there is an audience or target consumer with the event/business.
This isn't some robbing of kids' allowances. Barcrafts aren't taking advantage of MLG or their viewerbase to turn a petty profit. They're providing a service, an event of its own and it has its cost and price. But a business is a business, you can't deny it, but if the service is good, you're satisfied and you feel the price was deserving to what you experienced; regardless if the club was directly involved, then the pricetag shouldn't be an issue in the overall grand scheme of things.
No?
And if not, we took all the feedback that was suggested and tried to revise for the next barcraft. Which do you think is more important? How much someone made in one event, or the return of the city's people, a good reputation and better namesake for future events?
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Torte, does Marko pay you to say this? Cause you're good lol. But all in all, whatever torte de lini is saying is all true and i can say that the manager of the club and the one organizing this event (aZoX aka Marko) is doing it for E-sports and not for the profit. And he has huge ambitions so it's just better for us in the end.
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He should pay me in my opinion. I'm only doing it for the heaps of bags of money he stuffs in his basement-dwelling disc-changing from the ceiling office anyways.
I've played 4s with Marko on Stream and watched GSL at the Club. Hope that gives a bit more credibility.
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I'd like to chime in a bit. last time we had a good time, amiright? Well Marko being the awesome businessman he is took a risk. A risk that is now known as BarCraft Montreal, a legend amongst this new trend of BarCrafts and things are just starting. Marko saw an opportunity after the first edition to literrally up barcrafts to another level.
And when I say whole new level it is not just a figure of speech! Were literally taking the production value THROUGH THE ROOF! There will be so many new screens, new machines, new cameras and there is also us in the background that will ensure that the event runs smoothly for all of you and provide you with great entertainment! You should see Marko in meetings. The guy is passionate and he will make this as awesome as he can without raising the ticket price.
You gotta also remember what Torte said, this is off-hours. They open the club specificly for us. That is why the staff last time was a bit off, they usually dont open during those hours. Couple the staff with insurance costs and exploitation fees + a mega production + so many new screens, projectors on a day that is normally closed and youre looking at a pretty darn expensive bill! I'm pretty sure that this edition will actually be an investment, those screens wont pay for themselves!
Honestly guys, 15$ aint asking much for such an event literally the most epic nerd event of your life!
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The way I see it, a club (or even a bar for that matter) is not gonna hold a special event to sell food and drink if you can view it from that perspective.
From a club owner's view point, an event has to bring in a solid revenue in order for you to want to do it again. Considering this is event number two and the club has Clearly upped the productive budget, I'm glad the ticket price didn't get higher. Of course, that's because this one is gonna be That much more of a success If I did not convince you, then I failed at what I set out to do. Edit: I see I have been ninja'd. Economics aside...
I think you should come with some friends if at all possible ^^ See fer yourself!
Time goes by so slowly o.O I think I'm gonna get an extra gin and tonic. and drink a nice brooskii or two during breaks ! Quite excited, yes. Starcraft hits the spot
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ez ez ez ez ez.....
Ok, I don't know how to explain this, Torte made it pretty clear here with clean explanations, but it's really hard to explain until you see all the expenses behind it... People think everything has no cost, and just opening the doors and everything would roll and everything would be fine.. For 1234 it's not the reality, and this event is with no profit intentions, if there are fine, if not, we're fine with that. this event is made for eSports. Let me explain.
Please someone, explain me this. First of all, whoever has '' doubts '' about who I am, I'm a nerd, I love SC2, I love the scene, I love eSports. I do this for the community, I could sit down home on the 20th and make the same paycheck.
I'm probably the only club manager in the entire world to know, love StarCraft as much as I do, and I took massive risks with the first one, MASSIVE risks.
People think it's off business, that it's suppose to have '' less '' fees to run the place. Well guess what, it's actually more expensive. The staff you saw there, you think they're there for free as volunteers for eSports ? No they aren't, and I didn't reclaim the owner a salary for all of this, this is pure fun for me.
We could have set this up in a damn Pub, like everybody else does all around the world. That's ok, but not cool. We're Cool, the genius that came in this world, those Steve Jobs, came with new design, and new thinking, new ideas, and that's what revolutionize the world we live in, people like him. He could have designed a black mac with plastic case, he came with a stainless steel case silver. Took a step ahead, and people followed.
I know about everyone that loves this game, it's a passion, I live it myself, and guess what, I might not be the only one, the GM tickets are selling twice faster then the regulars. Any profit & regular business minded person would have raised the cost after the first barcraft and cut the drinks to 0, seeing the demand that there is, and I'm sure we would still have the same amount, if not more people with that.
It's not me, but I simply can't have a free entrance in order to have all of this running, it's not the reality we live in, and let's be honest here, we weren't close sales wise at the bar to what we are on a regular night, for more hours of business, and I'm really, really fine with that, main goal of this even is to put a smile on everyones face.
Thank god Vuugo came to give a huge kick to the production of this event, it will be awesome, but let's imagine in a perfect world that a few more business like Vuugo would exist and throw, guess what, the ticket would turn to 0$, as it would pay for all. Not there yet, soon we'll be, the 20th will open the eyes of the entire world.
I'm born to do things big, and saw the opportunity here, to make this thing a monster, a fucking gozilla BarCraft.
Let's all have a good time on the 20th, drinks on me.
For eSports <3
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EPT
