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On December 19 2011 15:05 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 13:49 Primadog wrote:
Very surprised that this missed my radar last time around. I thoroughly enjoyed the history lesson and how frightening that history may be repeating itself. This was written during or around a MLG fiasco (involving incontrol) and it's in a very quiet sub-forum :B
And also the title of the thread suggests some sort of event with a SC2 team called Comic. Which I wouldn't read because I have never heard of such a team. Of course article content is very different and exceptionally interesting.
On December 19 2011 15:39 IamNatural wrote:
bump
Redundant much...
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Amazing post tadzio!
I love your perspecticve on this
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I opened this thread because I thought it had to do with a SC2 team named "Comic", great read! Though I'm sure if the title were a little different lots more people would read it >.<
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Wonderful article written very thoughtfully. The GSL season ticket options have been nagging at me since I watched the GSL Blizzcup Finals and although I was incredibly inspired by the show MMA and DRG put on, I still could not get myself to drop that amount of cash for the content Gom produces. $240 for what still is a secondary english stream is just not the value I can justify as a starving college student. If this was moved to SC2 General I'm sure more people could weigh in on this as it took months and a closely related thread (thanks Mani and Torte) to find this quality opinion piece.
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Wow. Not sure how I missed this post but this is a GREAT post.
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Excellent post, and something I don't think many people realize. We, as a community, need to start speaking with where we spend our money and where we click to watch players, tournaments and other shows.
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Thats really, really good  .
The whole "hurting E-SPORTS" thing annoys me so much.
I watched SC/BW before SC2 came out... There where games nearly everyday... They were not allways commentated in english but for all intents and purposes I happily watched my SC/BW thanks to awesome streamers which did this for absolutely FREE.
Now SC2 exploded and E-Sports is bigger than ever. Well, what actually happened to my viewing experience as a general SC/BW and SC2 watcher/fan (I'm seriously not biased towards either game)?
There are way more english commentators, which is a huge improvement, and there are BIG weekend tournaments (Dreamhack/MLG/IEM) which SC/BW lacked, these are awesome.
Aside from that everyting SC2 offers is worse than what SC/BW allready offered but suddenly most of them (praise you dreamhack) want my money to watch them in good quality AND everyone seems to want me to spend money on them to "support E-SPORTS" (and not be a horrible person)... If that’s what it's all about then well "fuck E-SPORTS".
Why does everyone thinks this is perfectly normal or good? Somewhere something has gone wrong.
I never did anything for SC/BW or anything on this site, i was and I am very gratefull that this site exists. There were/are tons of people like me but now suddenly, that SC2 got big, this is not enough anymore and i am suddenly hurting E-Sports by not actively sucking some organisations cock? I and many others are into E-Sports before some of the younger/newer guys here were allowed to stay up past 8 p.m.  .
I got accoutns on some "e-sports" forums which date back to 2000... And that was when the site was created, not when i started to care be into it .
I'll gladly pay for E-Sports.. As soon as it's worth it. Right now? It is for the most part not any better, if not worse, than what i got from SC/BW for free (thanks again to the restream heroes and youtube uploaders...).
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Excellent post first off, the lower quality tournaments will hopefully dissipate, there's only one NFL right? And that only lasts half the year, approx.
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Missed this the first time, but a great read for sure.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
This is extremely well put, I can't believe this didn't generate 200 pages of discussion.
It's funny, for the NASL finals, I was toying with the idea of writing an article titled 'Why I Hope NASL Fails", but I ultimately didn't finish it or post it, mostly due to time constraints. But the point of my article was similar; I thought (hope was probably not the right word) that if the third NASL season was it's last that it would be a good thing for the scene. That's because the NASL is a product that (so far) should fail in a free market. It has been repeatedly outclassed by it's peer tournaments in terms of production quality and fan/customer service. It is the ugly ducking of major Sc2 tournaments. The NASL has gotten better, even much better. But it hasn't gotten good enough for many fans, and while I personally don't care too much about something like quality of a stream, I do care that other people care about it.
As someone who does work for the scene directly and who profits from it; it's in my interest that projects I work on appeal to as many people as possible. For example, I'm not a good enough player, nor do I have the free time to watch replay packs. I usually only find games I thought were truly amazing, or when I'm interested in a certain player. But I take a ton of pride from the This Week In Replays feature we have on TLPro, and it's extremely important to me that we have passionate, knowledgeable, and smart people working on the replay packs we release. We're putting out a product, and even if it's not a product I use, it's vital that I address the concerns and suggestions of people who do use it.
So back to the NASL (and there are other tournaments with issues, but NASL has indisputably had the most consistent ones) that all goes to mean that as ESPORTS fans, we should be concerned with the quality and sustainability of the project, just as much as we are with simply the fact that it provides entertainment. On SotG, when iNcontroL sarcastically 'put down' the NASL for doing good work for ESPORTS, I could only shake my head. I think he missed the point. Leagues that fail are as important for our scene as leagues that succeed. We need both. So it's nothing against the NASL. They've done some really cool things, like bringing in new and interesting casters, and apparently they treated the players and fans extremely well at their live event. I actually 'hope' they succeed. But I hope they succeed in the right way, and not because fans put them on life support.
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Thanks for bumping this post. Missed it the first time and it was an eye opening good read!
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On December 19 2011 17:05 BFCrimson wrote:
Wonderful article written very thoughtfully. The GSL season ticket options have been nagging at me since I watched the GSL Blizzcup Finals and although I was incredibly inspired by the show MMA and DRG put on, I still could not get myself to drop that amount of cash for the content Gom produces. $240 for what still is a secondary english stream is just not the value I can justify as a starving college student. If this was moved to SC2 General I'm sure more people could weigh in on this as it took months and a closely related thread (thanks Mani and Torte) to find this quality opinion piece.
240 dollars? I just paid 69 dollars for the GSL Light ticket for the entire year....Where in the WORLD did you get 240 dollars from?
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I would like to add my gratitude for the second opportunity to read this.
great message and well written.
honestly the intro is the best part makes me want to watch daily 100 again.
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Didn't see this the first time around. Between this and UltraDavid's article it's been nice to read some well constructed analysis of the scene from more detached perspectives. Things that people often say after a bubble pops are "How did we not see this coming?" or "why was nothing done to prevent it from crashing so badly?" Here's to hoping the right people have enough foresight to make E-Sports last.
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On December 20 2011 03:02 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 17:05 BFCrimson wrote:
Wonderful article written very thoughtfully. The GSL season ticket options have been nagging at me since I watched the GSL Blizzcup Finals and although I was incredibly inspired by the show MMA and DRG put on, I still could not get myself to drop that amount of cash for the content Gom produces. $240 for what still is a secondary english stream is just not the value I can justify as a starving college student. If this was moved to SC2 General I'm sure more people could weigh in on this as it took months and a closely related thread (thanks Mani and Torte) to find this quality opinion piece. 240 dollars? I just paid 69 dollars for the GSL Light ticket for the entire year....Where in the WORLD did you get 240 dollars from?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dfiAj.png)
If you want GSTL as well.
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I could have been extreme and said $420 for GSL + GSTL + No Ads but I don't honestly expect anyone to purchase this. GSTL is important to me and I just felt that, as others have said, is not worth the money for the content. If nothing changes I will probably end buying the $70 package but will be sad not to get the GSTL included with the package.
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This whole article was amazing. I also liked your little history lesson on comics (I didn't know anything about that) and it compares really well to the situation today. I'm surprised as well as others that this topic didn't launch a huge discussion. Why is that?!
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Wow, I have to appreciate the effort that went into that post there. However, while I agree with you on most points, I believe that e-sports is not nearly as well-established as comics were when they started selling the mint copies, so that, for the time being, money going into the e-sports scene merely helps build it as apposed to inflating it.
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I'm happy that Mani's recent blog has led me to this post. It is extremely well-written and while the analogy isn't exactly perfect we should still learn the lessons from the past. As has been mentioned the bubble could lead to a return in investment instead of a burst, but I think it's still a good idea to be careful with where your esport dollars go.
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EPT
