EPT
Team Comics' Lessons in Fandom. - Page 2
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
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SirKibbleX
United States479 Posts
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
On July 31 2011 22:52 SirKibbleX wrote: "Hey, you like us? We're the best right? Then help us make it even better!" Even if a larger prize pool would make for a better experience, why is it the community's responsibility to make MLG better? That's Team eSports thinking.... :D The old cliche is "you get what you pay for," but I think "you get paid for what you're offering" is at least as valid considering the number of competitors MLG has. Imo, MLG should be looking for ways to beat their competition, not milking their existing fanbase with sweet, yet bizarrely empty promises. "Give us 100,000 annual subscribers and MLG will double the quality of the HQ streams." Or "..will run bonus footage of the after-party on the HQ streams." Or just about anything that would whet a customer's appetite for the HQ stream. Why offer something that doesn't benefit the fans but makes you rich? Does the NFL tell their fans that if they fill up the stadium the owners will give pay raises to their players? No, because it's a stupid thing to offer paying customers. People watch these streams because they want to be entertained. Entice them with better entertainment. If you wanna go with a subscription model over an advertisement model, offer exclusive content (interviews scheduled during the free-stream's advertising breaks, for instance, or a third stream that broadcasts stuff hardcore fans would be into, like player preparations or tips from the pros or something). There's so many options available that aren't increasing the prize pool, it's a little daunting to consider them...... I feel like I'm ranting again, so I'll stop there. lol | ||
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Rustug
1488 Posts
I believe I was part of "Team e-Sports" for a while, but hanging out with my fellow "Team e-Sports" members snapped me out of it. ^^ The idea that I was responsible for the welfare of e-Sports and should show my support through buying HQ passes and merchandise of any and all events just didn't fly straight with me. Shouldn't a provider of e-Sports content be vigorously competing with other providers for my favor, and through quality get me to spend my money. Not just plainly ask for it while "the e-Sports horde" is threatening me with the downfall of e-Sports if I don't. I came to the realization, a couple months ago, that my spending on e-Sports wasn't providing me with the sensation of actually supporting competitive gaming. That is when I decided to look for a way I could and started writing thank you e-mails to all the companies that supported e-Sports through sponsorship, cheering on all the contributors on places like TL and after that I applied to join Team Grubby as a volunteer. Now I have the feeling that I'm actually doing something for e-Sports and I'm still buying HQ passes, but I'm only spending it on organizations that provide me with good content. For me, this is the way I want to support e-Sports and it's much easier on the wallet too.  On July 31 2011 23:42 Tadzio wrote:offer exclusive content (interviews scheduled during the free-stream's advertising breaks, for instance, or a third stream that broadcasts stuff hardcore fans would be into, like player preparations or tips from the pros or something). I would love something like that.. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Rustug
1488 Posts
On August 01 2011 02:33 strongandbig wrote: This sounds like a really good analysis to me. I totally agree that if the theme of "pay money now to support ESPORTS which you wouldn't otherwise pay" - the "ESPORTS charity" idea - creates an unsustainable bubble. People will eventually stop buying for that reason, and if the ESPORTS businesses that have been built up are depending on those people, the whole thing could collapse. The problem is, how else do we build up ESPORTS infrastructure, sustainably? I'm not convinced we've heard a good answer to that one. I think we should look at organizations that have build up their event and brand without Team e-Sport. Any Suggestions? | ||
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On July 31 2011 23:42 Tadzio wrote: Daigomi: Do you think helping to grow the bubble is of sufficient importance (to infrastructure, distribution and growth) that fans should purchase superfluous products and services from eSports organizations? It doesn't sound like that's what you're advocating, but that's what my OP was arguing against and you said you disagreed... I think I share your dislike of companies extorting money from fans, but unlike you I don't think the end result is necessarily bad. If fans want to purchase superfluous products, that's fine with me as I do believe it could help eSports. However, I dislike organizers making disingenuous promises or placing pressure on fans to make unnecessary promises to support eSports. I honestly feel that companies should focus more on getting advertising money than money from the fans, and this is still an area where eSports needs to develop. On August 01 2011 03:26 Rustug wrote: I think we should look at organizations that have build up their event and brand without Team e-Sport. Any Suggestions? I can say that all the TSLs have been organized purely through sponsorships, but we have an unfair advantage because we have a big community of helpful volunteers to rely on. This is also why we can't have as many TSLs as MLGs, because the volunteers can only give up so much of their own time. As such, I don't realy know if this model is sustainable on a larger scale. | ||
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shindigs
United States4795 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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UltimateHurl
Ireland591 Posts
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [the conclusion] + There's a reason that Nick and Sean Plott were able to follow Broodwar eSports, eventually translating that passion into careers, and it wasn't because they were spoiled rich kids that could afford to purchase faux-ancillary events and products attached to Broodwar. They were able to do it because it was as close to free to audience and participants as the event organizers could make them. When local events were held, they had a cover charge for attendance and most of the rest of the costs were covered by advertising. When there were Korean restreams, watching those streams was free. Occasionally, restreamers would suggest users make donations, but that's only because they were losing money on the situation and didn't have the viewership numbers to generate interest from advertisers. It had nothing to do with greed. Today we have the infrastructure in place (through Justin.tv, Livestream, Own3d.tv and other options) to attract advertising dollars no matter how small the production. It's an exciting time to grow eSports, but now we also have greed creeping in, with eSports organizers ready to exploit the passions of the fanbase for their own financial gains. They're not offering any more than what we've always had, in terms of content, they're just putting a shiny gloss on the production and charging for the privilege to see it in high quality. What's the return on investment in that? This thread should be about ways eSports organizations can provide value to their customers to justify the prices they're demanding. Alternatively, discuss advertising and sponsorship options that're available to these organizations. Paying someone to "support eSports" is a poor motivation to part with your money, and you should demand more than some empty pride in the scene's profit margins. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
When you mention the "bubble" in comics or esports are you talking about a sort of anti-capitalist form of false sustainability coming from only within the community? I don't know if that phrase makes any sense but I'm talking about a community that only exists and is funded as well as it is because people support it just to support it. I just want to ask for clarity with that. I definitely agree that Day 9 is the man in how he promotes esports. He has passion that cannot be faked in what he does and his services to his fans (dailies, signing autographs for hours, being a generally positive, inspiring, and awesome dude, ect.) is the ideal way to help esports. I'm not convinced, however, that NASL is black mailing the fans. I think you're saying this because they admitted if they didn't get the support for season 3 they couldn't afford it. They are probably just being honest. They streamed for free and for that alone I enjoyed watching a bunch of games without paying a cent. I can't get mad about that and I honestly appreciate their effort and giving me free entertainment. The stupid shit people say on TL trying to be funny about people "ruining esports" gets on my nerves. Although it's a joke it still shows that nobody wants to be labeled as a person who is against the growth of esports. Maybe I am anti-esports because I have never once paid for any starcraft related content so far. I bought starcraft 2 and that's it. No coaching lessons, GSL/MLG/NASL/whatever else passes, and I never attended a live event. The only things I did donate to were to the Day 9 fund someone else suggested and to a charity streaming event (I think TLO's). I don't think it's right to feel pressured to spend money on something that you wouldn't pay for anyway, except for a charity event. I feel no shame in "not supporting esports" and I don't believe anyone else should either. I like the idea of being a farmer rather than a strip miner. Rustug admitted to going from being on Team Esports to doing what he can that does not involve dumping money into the scene. I think this is a great way to go. Volunteering in all types of ways and sending out thank you emails is awesome. Props to you for that. | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:11 AirbladeOrange wrote: When you mention the "bubble" in comics or esports are you talking about a sort of anti-capitalist form of false sustainability coming from only within the community? I don't know if that phrase makes any sense but I'm talking about a community that only exists and is funded as well as it is because people support it just to support it. In comics the bubble was supported by the false stability provided by hard-core fans. It laid the ground work. Then speculators (folk that bought comics in the hope that their value would increase) came into the scene and the bubble exploded in a major way, collapsing about half a decade later. People that were part of "team comics" attempted, for a time, to take up the slack when speculators abandoned comics, but they only managed to soften the failure. In eSports, we've had steady growth, and the advertisers that're supporting shit now, in my view, represent the speculators. If eSports growth is naturally strong enough, they'll be rewarded. If it isn't, "team eSports" (which is being developed now) will soften the burst... but they won't be able to stop it. At a cost to themselves. The worry I have is that developing on a business model that depends on the generosity of the fans tips the scales towards the eventual burst of the bubble. If you pay extra for HQ streams... instead of additional content, you encourage prices to go up without any additional value. This makes it more difficult for potential fans to get into the scene, imo, and damages any future attempt to fall back on advertiser rates. Hope that answered your question. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On December 19 2011 13:49 Primadog wrote: Very surprised that this missed my radar last time around. I thoroughly enjoyed the history lesson and how frightening that history may be repeating itself. This was written during or around a MLG fiasco (involving incontrol) and it's in a very quiet sub-forum :B | ||
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IamNatural
64 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
If you don't read this you ruin ESPORTS! | ||
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