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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 09 2011 07:20 Xacez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:19 MonkSEA wrote:
Nah he doesn't contribute anything. Not Builds, his thoughts on builds, live commentary, outstanding play etc. When will people understand that his stream is not hosted on TL, it's hosted on Justin.tv. IdrA does almost no contribution with the posts he make on TL, just look at his post history, this is a fact.
Ohh, but I was replying to "Community" I thought, a community was a group of people affiliated somehow, and I presumed our affiliation was all the game(s) of Starcraft. If he said "TL" then it'd be a completely different argument, but just saying he does nothing constructive for Starcraft then you're just blind.
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On May 09 2011 07:25 Deindar wrote:
Shit. I've looked for about 100 different ways to try to criticize TL on their handling of this situation of this drama because I'm a rabid IdrA fan, but I really think they handled this maturally. Well done T.T
Maturely handling it would be to ban both idra and cruncher.
Not banning cruncher because of X Y and Z is just skewing reasons. When looked at objectively they both are to blame.
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Woah! 100+ pages. Jesus how that even possible?
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On May 09 2011 07:19 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:17 fishjie wrote:
guy is pretty immature and doesn't seem like he'll ever grow up, so why not just perma ban him instead? he may be one of the best zergs (although nestea is ten million times better than he is), but he doesn't really contribute anything to the community other than constantly insulting other players and whining about balance. Nah he doesn't contribute anything. Not Builds, his thoughts on builds, live commentary, outstanding play etc.
remember that sarcasm can be hard to detect on the internet please
On May 09 2011 07:23 Xacez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:21 Asparagus wrote:On May 09 2011 07:20 Xacez wrote:On May 09 2011 07:19 MonkSEA wrote:
Nah he doesn't contribute anything. Not Builds, his thoughts on builds, live commentary, outstanding play etc. When will people understand that his stream is not hosted on TL, it's hosted on Justin.tv. IdrA does almost no contribution with the posts he make on TL, just look at his post history, this is a fact. if that's the case then...why...do...mods...want...him...back...in...90...days... he won't find jesus, i'll fucking tell you that much. I don't understand your post at all, the point with a ban is to teach people that the way they act is inappropriate for the website they got banned on. He's not banned because he doesn't contribute to the strategy section, he's banned because he told people via his Twitter to harass Chill (and we have proof that was his intention).
ur right, they can. im pretty sure they've shown that they know what they are doing..
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how is cruncher to blame, all he did was stream cheat in a ladder game.. it's kind of lame but its not a big issue at all, people do that to me all the time and it's just the price you pay for streaming your ladder games.
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On May 09 2011 07:23 Xacez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:21 Asparagus wrote:On May 09 2011 07:20 Xacez wrote:On May 09 2011 07:19 MonkSEA wrote:
Nah he doesn't contribute anything. Not Builds, his thoughts on builds, live commentary, outstanding play etc. When will people understand that his stream is not hosted on TL, it's hosted on Justin.tv. IdrA does almost no contribution with the posts he make on TL, just look at his post history, this is a fact. if that's the case then...why...do...mods...want...him...back...in...90...days... he won't find jesus, i'll fucking tell you that much. I don't understand your post at all, the point with a ban is to teach people that the way they act is inappropriate for the website they got banned on. He's not banned because he doesn't contribute to the strategy section, he's banned because he told people via his Twitter to harass Chill (and we have proof that was his intention).
look at his ban log, he won't learn. this won't teach. this is just stupidity.
keeping him around knowing he's posting only negative is stupid and this is deemed as a 90 day break from his next post that will get him another ban.
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On May 09 2011 07:24 snarl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:20 MonkSEA wrote:On May 09 2011 07:17 snarl wrote:On May 09 2011 07:15 MonkSEA wrote:On May 09 2011 07:12 RoyalCheese wrote:
What people fail to realize is that Cruncher didn't troll/whateveryoucallit via TL and therefore TL staff has no right to take any actions against him. Idra however insulted him via tl forum and got banned. Pretty fair case, imo. (btw yes i am <3 idra) Then Mr. Awesome, why was IdrA banned for 90 days when he trolled someone off of the TL website? Your logic is incorrect and therefore redundant. Did you miss the part where he told his legion of fans to send the mod a pm knowing full well it would result in spam? And did you miss the part where if we're playing this on assumptions then CrunCher should be assumed of stream cheating? Regardless of IdrA saying that, he did not out-right say "Spam Chill and harass him" he said if the ban upset you then don't ask IdrA, ask Chill. Nazgul spoke with idra after the fact, did you not read the op? IF it wasn't idra's intention to get chill spam PM'd he could have apologised and the thing would have blown over. But it clearly was his intent since he said he did not regret his actions. So please stop..you're grasping at straws here.
I saw the source, and stopped my argument. So before you accuse people of not reading, you should do it yourself. And regardless, the OP just says he thought his actions were just and he didn't want to apologize. We were left in the dark with the ASSUMPTION his intent was to spam and harass Chill, until IntoTheWoW told us directly that this is what IdrA meant.
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On May 09 2011 07:24 Angelo Corsino wrote:
TL is lame, its going down hill pretty fast and is light years behind other sites forum wise
then get out
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United States15275 Posts
On May 09 2011 07:26 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:25 Deindar wrote:
Shit. I've looked for about 100 different ways to try to criticize TL on their handling of this situation of this drama because I'm a rabid IdrA fan, but I really think they handled this maturally. Well done T.T Maturely handling it would be to ban both idra and cruncher. Not banning cruncher because of X Y and Z is just skewing reasons. When looked at objectively they both are to blame.
You can't ban Cruncher for stream sniping without definite evidence. And the problem is that such evidence can only be showed through several consecutive games. The same applies to maphacking as well. And even then, stream sniping on ladder games probably doesn't warrant a ban in the first place. Now if this was a tournament with money on the ladder, the situation would be different.
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On May 09 2011 07:28 drewbie.root wrote:
how is cruncher to blame, all he did was stream cheat in a ladder game.. it's kind of lame but its not a big issue at all, people do that to me all the time and it's just the price you pay for streaming your ladder games.
dude, how can u say that without any proof at all. or even evidence. did u even watch the game ur talking about?
god, you realize your name actually has some weight right?
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I'm idra, they didnt ban me.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 09 2011 07:26 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:25 Deindar wrote:
Shit. I've looked for about 100 different ways to try to criticize TL on their handling of this situation of this drama because I'm a rabid IdrA fan, but I really think they handled this maturally. Well done T.T Maturely handling it would be to ban both idra and cruncher. Not banning cruncher because of X Y and Z is just skewing reasons. When looked at objectively they both are to blame.
how can you prove he cheated? stream sniping isnt cheating.
i saw the game that caused all this and all that happened was cruncher walled off with a forge and double gate way... thats how i open on that map because its safe vs a all in
just because someone goes all in and it gets counter by a safe opening does not mean he was cheating at all
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On May 09 2011 07:26 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:25 Deindar wrote:
Shit. I've looked for about 100 different ways to try to criticize TL on their handling of this situation of this drama because I'm a rabid IdrA fan, but I really think they handled this maturally. Well done T.T Maturely handling it would be to ban both idra and cruncher. Not banning cruncher because of X Y and Z is just skewing reasons. When looked at objectively they both are to blame.
No, banning Cruncher would've been going beyond the evidence. It would also have been extending TL jurisdiction into an area - live streaming - that TL does not have jurisdiction over. It's like banning Idra because he talked shit about X Y Z on stream, and if that's the policy, following it consistently would lead to Idra being banned for even longer.
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idrA's just awesome. he's becoming the face of e-sports.
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On May 09 2011 07:28 drewbie.root wrote:
how is cruncher to blame, all he did was stream cheat in a ladder game.. it's kind of lame but its not a big issue at all, people do that to me all the time and it's just the price you pay for streaming your ladder games.
You can't ban Cruncher for stream sniping without definite evidence. And the problem is that such evidence can only be showed through several consecutive games. The same applies to maphacking as well.
Rather than ban him for stream cheating (which he said he did initially I believe)... why ont ban him for the OBVIOUS trolling his post contained? Or warn him?
Or let him off scot free because one person saying a throwaway pissed off comment is bannable for 2 days, but someone deliberately trolling and trying to rile up another poster is completely acceptable?
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On May 09 2011 07:16 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:12 Kamikazess wrote:
TL extended IdrA's ban, because his comment on Twitter had direct implications inside TL (the harassment to Chill). And because, after this, TL Staff asked about the intentions behind this comment, and IdrA said that wanted to annoy Chil and won't apologize. I see no source that he wanted to annoy chill. All I see is his thoughts were just, and he won't apologize. (Going on the first page source too, not some conjured members post)
No, a mod (IntoTheWow, I think) confirmed that IdrA admitted to intending to annoy Chill with the twitter post.
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[/QUOTE]
No, banning Cruncher would've been going beyond the evidence and banning someone for what you think they did as opposed to what they actually did. It would also have been extending TL jurisdiction into an area - live streaming - that TL does not have jurisdiction over. It's like banning Idra because he talked shit about X Y Z on stream, and if that's the policy, following it consistently would lead to Idra being banned for even longer.[/QUOTE]
you mean like banning idrA because of what he said on his twitter? do you even know what happened?
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On May 09 2011 07:09 GeeseHoward wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:53 huameng wrote:On May 09 2011 06:45 GeeseHoward wrote:On May 09 2011 06:40 FuTon wrote:On May 09 2011 06:33 GeeseHoward wrote:
I can provide screen shots of my conversation with Chill. At no point did he ask me to stop or imply he didn't want to receive those messages. I'm going to quote wikipedia on the subject, "It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing." Thus it's commonly accepted for a action to become harassment, a party has to ask the other party in some form to stop.
I would like to point out section 3 of your ten commandments which states, "... If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands by posting "Ban?" or telling users they will be banned. You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that."
Two things, everyone that contact Chill about the ban was in the right according to the rules as long as they were being respectful. If they choose to violate the rules that was once again, their action. Not Greg Fields.
Last, the Idra Banned for 90 Days creates a double stander. Where it implied in the rules that such threads should not be create since it seems to be TL staff would prefer to deal with such matters in private.
Thus I humbly request you do not ban Greg "IdrA" Fields for 90 days. Since his tweet did not tell people to harass it clearly states, "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you". Which is clearly in the rules that you are allow to, "If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM..." I do not see any rule that was broken to increase IdrA's ban to 90 days.
I would also like to request that moderate actions on the Team Liquid forums be base solely on items that happen on the forums. Actions that happen on other outlets should be not be dealt with on the Team Liquid forums.
Thank you. Idra told TL staffs that he did it on purpose. Proof: On May 09 2011 06:15 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 09 2011 06:04 eNtitY~ wrote:
This is a really stupid move, it's not like he told people to mass spam Chill and harass him about why. He just said he was banned and if they had a problem to PM Chill... The staff needs to lighten up a bit here because what he did really shouldn't be that big of a deal. All TL admins are doing is taking away from the community because now no one gets to benefit from the week of analysis he was going to do. Considering ~18k people watch it the first day there was a lot of interest there.
Overboard IMO. TL Staff talked about it with Idra. He said he did it on purpose to annoy Chill. We are not taking anything from you. If Idra doesn't want to stream, it's his own decision. We don't have a power button to switch his computer or stream off. I have read that, but that unrelated to my post. I personally message Chill, because I did not agree with the banned and I followed the rules. It a decision of the individual. Thus if rules were violate and Chill was harass, that is the fault of the individual who made that decision, not Greg "IdrA" Fields. I don't see how it's unrelated, it seems about as related as something could possibly be. His tweet didn't directly tell people to harass, but he meant it to harass, and since Idra did something to have Chill harassed, he is the one who gets punished. Since the PMs weren't harassment, but protesting a ban, which is standard procedure and allowed, the users who sent the PMs were not punished. But Idra, who wanted Chill to be harassed and attempted to make it happen, gets punished. It makes perfect sense to me. It's unrelated cause his intent doesn't control me. It was a clear statement which is clearly allowed in the rules. I'm sorry you don't understand. I clearly have the intent for wanting lower gas prices, but it's outside of my power to do so. Greg can clearly want people to harass Chill but it's out side of his power to make them do so. It was still a individual decision and I strongly do not support moderating actions that happen outside of the forums. It's very close if not online bulling.
Idra's actions being outside the forums are irrelevant to this discussion I think. TL taking action on stuff that happens outside the site is a totally different issue.
And yes, Idra just wanting chill to be harassed doesn't mean Idra should get banned. But he didn't just want to do so, he took action to make it happen, and this is when it crosses the line between okay and against the rules. Similarly, if you hire an assassin to get someone killed, you will still be in trouble even though you didn't actually murder anyone and it was the assassin's choice to kill.
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On May 09 2011 07:31 Deathmanbob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 07:26 Mailing wrote:On May 09 2011 07:25 Deindar wrote:
Shit. I've looked for about 100 different ways to try to criticize TL on their handling of this situation of this drama because I'm a rabid IdrA fan, but I really think they handled this maturally. Well done T.T Maturely handling it would be to ban both idra and cruncher. Not banning cruncher because of X Y and Z is just skewing reasons. When looked at objectively they both are to blame. how can you prove he cheated? stream sniping isnt cheating. i saw the game that caused all this and all that happened was cruncher walled off with a forge and double gate way... thats how i open on that map because its safe vs a all in just because someone goes all in and it gets counter by a safe opening does not mean he was cheating at all
Look, here.
1. I am not saying he cheated. He sniped (not cheated) and trolls idra, REGULARLY. This is disrespectful to a veteran, against one of the TL commandments.
2. IdrA posted on twitter, which resulted in chill being spammed. HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THIS, THIS IS NOT AGAINST THE TL COMMANDMENT RULES. as idra did NOT post it on TL. I am not using this as justification, idra deserved to be banned regardless for insulting Cruncher. If Chill got mad at people disagreeing with the ban and PMing him about it, that is a burden he has to face as a moderator.
3. Being featured should have rules imposed, like everything else on this website. There are only a few featured, and they are usually the best teams or players. They should have standards. IdrA purely ladders, and only insults people who flame him first. He is quiet and passive on ladder.
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In an effort to explain the difference between IdrA's and Cruncher's situation, I'll try to use an analogy:
What IdrA did here on TL is like a crime. He broke the law. Must go to the jail (90-day ban).
Cruncher, in the other, if he really was cheating in a ladder game, is the same thing to meet your neighbor in the elevator, without saying "Good morning". Sure it isn't a good thing, sure it isn't a well-mannered behavior, but a major punishment isn't required (and a lot of people here think he is totally wrong, because of that). Cruncher's conduct isn't listed here in TL as a bannable offense, so he didn't broke TL laws.
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EPT
