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On April 14 2010 02:56 Stormer wrote:
I'm currently doing the anabolic diet and some weird combination of SS + HIIT, that is i do the A and B workouts monday and thursday and i do HIIT on a recumbent bike tuesday and friday. Does that look good as far as fat loss is concerned which is my main goal. Also I've been wondering about German Volume Training, if I could incorporate it once a week with switching between squat and deadlift or is that detrimental to muscle since I'm low carbing it?ž
EDIT: Concerning the fasted cardio it's supposed to work, I haven't seen much on the topic but Shellby Starnes who is pretty famous around the bodybuilding crew says it does show results.
Uhhh, it's not a good idea to do SS and HIIT at the same time.
I would suggest you follow SS with a strict diet. You will definitely increase muscle mass and lose a bit of the fat which will make you much leaner which is what you're looking for.
Low carbing will probably stall you faster. But that's fine. Take most of your carbs post workout.
On April 14 2010 02:38 Warrior Madness wrote:
Hey guys, I need some help with nutrition. Nutrition has always been my least favourite part of being active. I always try to be as strict as I can and since I don't have much money to throw around I find myself often chained to bland, repetitive preplanned meals, such as: "Tuna fish sandwich" twice or three times a day or oatmeal (which makes me dry heave) for breakfast.
Here is my list of foods.
Oatmeal
Tuna Fish sandwich
Turkey Breast sandwich with cottage cheese in it
banana
Whey proten + milk
Fried Chicken breast + brown rice
What can I do to spice things up while keeping to a poor man's budget? I'm definitely going to start buying salmon, and I should probably start eating pasta as well. I don't really get tired of that.
I've tried subsituting oatmeal with sweet potatoes but those taste TERRIBLE. Maybe there's some sort of sweet potato blended recipe out there?
I like sweet potatoes with butter and cinnamon added.
More fruits and veges is OK.
Lots and lots of eggs. Hard boiled, in the morning, omlettes, etc.
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On April 14 2010 10:17 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 07:11 cz wrote:On April 14 2010 06:59 Malinor wrote:On April 14 2010 03:56 cz wrote:On April 13 2010 10:07 eshlow wrote:On April 12 2010 13:19 cz wrote:On April 12 2010 13:11 eshlow wrote:On April 10 2010 23:35 RowdierBob wrote:
Eshlow, what in your opinion is the best bench press to do?
I've been doing an all-round body routine lately due to time constraints and only have time for one form of bench. Incline, decline or flat - which is best and why?
Cheers mate. Regular one is fine. If you want a bit more triceps emphasis go with close grip bench. Kinda already answered right below your post though... On April 11 2010 20:04 evanthebouncy! wrote:here's my question now: school getting super busy, probably no time to excercise.. what do I do  People always make time for the things they want to do... as stated already. On April 11 2010 21:54 Energies wrote:
Wow, eshlow is spiderman.
My lower back is killing me, I have no idea why. I am getting the same muscle soreness I would get after a day of heavy deadlifts or squats but this time it has stayed with me for like 2 weeks, admittedly I have done some running and light squats in that period. I thought it would be fine yesterday and did some squats, I was working my way up to around 250-260lb, I went to 176lb on my third warm up, it was strange, lifting the weight was easy but the pain after each set was excruciating so I stopped.
Also my deadlift has tanked. I haven't dead lifted in about 3 weeks, I was at around 350lb if the deadlift was my first exercise, but I could still bust out a set of 280-300lb fatigued. I tried it a few days ago and I hadn't worked legs or back that day, I just chose it as a compound exercise. There was 220lb on the bar, I did 3-4 reps and placed the weight down, it was just... too hard.
At the moment my lower back is a little bit tense but no pain. Cycling or running strains it slightly but doing any squats or dead lifts and I'm sure the pain would return. I'm confident the issue will resolve it self if I just allow it enough time to recover but how can I currently maintain my strength and mass without being able to do exercises like squats/deadlifts/Overhead press/cleans ??
I would start to do more mobility work for your back.. maybe some mckenzie exercises too. Maintaining strength and mass is fairly easy -- just eat well. You can still go to the gym and do upper body or bodyweight strength work. Sprinting is great for maintaining mass (and even building it as well). There are lots of alternatives. As for conditioning, you're likely better off doing sprinting and stair running work. That's the most applicable for trekking as well. Stair runs with a heavy backpack would be fun.  Remember, the terrain is pretty uneven so I would skip a stair here and there to not let your body get into a rhythm. On April 12 2010 03:35 shmay wrote:On April 11 2010 18:19 Ero-Sennin wrote:On April 11 2010 10:02 shmay wrote:
Speaking of SS. I did my third round of Squats/Deadlifts yesterday and once again felt completely drained today. Is there some way to combat this, or do I just need to wait it out? Drained as in lacking energy? Are you eating a well balanced meal? Eating at least a 3:1 Carb to Protein ratio after working out? Because taking in carbs after a workout can increase your capacity to store muscle gylcogen up to 300%, according to recent studies, anyways. That would definitely help with the "drained" feeling. Headache, and zero energy. I had stuff to do but never made it past my couch. I basically spent my entire day watching DBZ abridged episodes and surfing random sites, then laying down every couple hours because even that fatigued me. Yeah I'm on the PaNu diet, so I'm not getting much carbs haha. Maybe I'll start adding sweet potatoes post work out. Feeling better today tho. On April 11 2010 20:04 evanthebouncy! wrote:here's my question now: school getting super busy, probably no time to excercise.. what do I do pushups / planks. maybe a short run? Low carb is going to be energy draining when you switch... you may want to transition with a bit more carbs. Eat some vegetables, maybe have some fruit. You can drop the carbs from week to week as your body adapts. On April 12 2010 12:36 cz wrote:
Am I the only one here whose primary goal is size? I'm on HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training), a counter-intuitive workout plan and have been noticing visible results quite quickly. I used to do HIT training with a 3-4 day split, always to failure, but it was more tiring on the CNS (really dead between workouts) and gave medium size gains, at least compared to HST. HIT is garbage: 1. without gear (steroids), or 2. unless you're at elite levels where you need such high volume specific focus on a bodypart and the recovery after it (while doing multiple practices a day. HST is fine for hypertrophy. Most of the basic barbell stuff is great for hypertrophy as well. Full body routine in general are superior for most beginners and intermediates. Failure too much is just crappy. HIT is low-volume, high intensity. I have no idea what to think of it as I haven't done enough other programs (my primary goal is size, btw). There's a huge debate with respect to HIT vs volume workouts that is not at all resolved yet: for every guy who thinks HIT is garbage there's a guy who thinks volume is a waste of time. What program would you recommend for an intermediate lifter whose goal is size? One of the basic barbell intermediate programs and lots of food. Likely a linear intermedaite program like Bill Starr's 5x5 So you recommend a strength program for someone looking for size gains? This love for starting strength and its ilk is completely out of hand: sure it's a nice base, but if you have lifted before and want size it is not at all the ideal path. Notes for everyone in this thread: Programs whose goal is to increase muscle size are better at increasing muscle size than programs whose goal is to increase strength, and vice versa. Very basic tenet. This applies less and less, of course, the more of a beginner / novice you are. I happen to think that at the intermediate level, you are still on a strength-level, where you have so much potential. In the end your muscles will grow better if you can squat 400 instead of 300 pounds. So I personally would still go for more strength gains at that level (since you won't gain strength on BB programms so easily), and do hypertrophy-specific stuff later. Besides that, my legs have grown immensly with 3x5/5x5. But that may not account for much, I grow from pretty much anything. But mass gains with 5x5 should be pretty good if you eat enough. I really disagree with this line of thinking, that doing strength programs at novice/beginner/intermediate levels results in better size at a later date than someone who did size programs the entire way. In my view, and unlike some others on this thread I actually don't just state everything as being obvious fact, size programs are better for size than strength programs, at whatever time period you want to measure the finish line. I also don't understand your reasoning with respect to why doing a strength program for a long time, even at intermediate levels, before switching to size programs would result in the largest size. If you can squat 400 pounds and you switch to a hypertrophy program, you have little room to improve. If you can squat 200 pounds and start a hypertrophy program, you have a long way to improve while making size gains before nearing your genetic limit. In other words, strength first seems detrimental to overall later size as you have less room to travel. I have no doubt, though, that you gained size and strength on a 5x5. Hypertrophy programs will lead to increased strength and strength programs will lead to increased size, it's just the proportions of which are different, which is why (along with what I said above) that I think it's silly and in fact less than optimal advice to suggest to someone who is aiming purely for size and isn't a complete beginner (and even if he was...) to start a strength-oriented program like 5x5s. The vast majority of problems with people not getting big is because they don't eat enough. I assume you would agree that Starting Strength is very near optimal for a complete novice (from what I gathered). But that you disagree that a strength related intermediate program would be even close to optimal for someone looking to put on size. If these are not the case then I misunderstood your post a bit. "In other words, strength first seems detrimental to overall later size as you have less room to travel." I do not agree with that at all. Any weight class athletes move up by lifting heavy and just packing in the kcals. Size follows. As long as you have the stimulus for mass (whether it be high intensity, high volume, etc.) and you eat enough you will gain mass. I do agree (if you would agree with this) that optimize muscle mass gains it would be better to switch to a higher volume (reps) routine after either SS or a linear intermediate program. Anyway, from what I've experienced on the net it's pretty easy to criticize. However, what exactly would you suggest for a specific hypertrophy program then?
I agree with respect to diet and its limitations upon gains. As for SS being optimal for a novice, I believe it is entirely dependent on their goals. If size is the priority, then I think 3x10 in the SS form (replace 5x5 with 3x10) would be more optimal, or any full-body routine that emphasizes either volume or higher reps. If strength is the priority, then obviously any strength program such as SS. I don't buy the 'strength then aim for size' is better than 'size all the way' program recommendations though.
As for "eat enough, you will gain mass," I agree, but it's not about gaining it's about maximizing the amount of size-gains with all other variables fixed, and to that point SS or Starr's 5x5 or any other program that isn't size-oriented isn't going to be ideal. It's kind of like arguing that 3x15 is a good pick for a strength-prioritizing person because if you eat enough you will gain strength on it, which you will. It's just not optimal and therefore not the best program choice.
As for the ideal hypertrophy program, I'm not sure yet. HST seems interesting, as do larger volume training programs like German Volume Training or Optimized Volume Training, or a full-body routine that is on 3x10 or 4x8 or something. There's also HIT. I think all of those programs are better for hypertrophy and size than SS or any 5x5, and of course all worse for strength.
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One of SS's big positives for complete novices is that it teaches proper form and gets the practitioner into big lifts with barbells and therefore away from doing a machine circuit or something similar. It teaches good, basic skills and comes in a nice complete package, whereas most programs have to be scrapped together from bits and pieces, an impossibility for someone entirely new. That said, simply changing the 5x5 to 3x10 or 4x8 would increase size gains at a corresponding loss in strength, making it more ideal for someone who prioritizes size.
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SS is 3x5 for squat, bench, press, clean, and 1x5 DL (has A&B days). StrongLifts is a 5x5 novice program. All of the other programs I mentioned were intermediate or linear intermediate.
SS morphed into 3x8/3x10 doesn't work that well and neither does the 5x5 version... I know people who have tried. -_-
HIT doesn't work that well as I mentioned earlier without (1) gear/steroids and/or (2) elite athletes who need more stress on their muscles and/or are have multiple days practices. Full body for them is not advisable. Full body is preferential for anyone at intermediate level or lower.
I know too many people who were on HIT and then switched to any of the linear barbell work or HST and made much better gains. HST is fine is someone is seeking hypertrophy.
Meh. I think were more or less on the same page (we agree about 90-95%) just piddle with the details a bit. I've just seen more gains from people doing full body strength based progression work than people piddling together their own 3x8/3x10/etc. routines. Whether it's not optimal it sure as hell is pretty close regardless.
Anything from the 4-12 rep range works good for size. Obviously, strength is more towards the low end, and endurance is more towards teh high end. There's different mechanisms for hypertrophy for both ranges.
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Cool, I think we agree on most things.
So, without this being a leading question, what do you recommend for me for my next hypertrophy program? I've read that HST is supposed to be used intermittently rather than continuously, so I want to go about half and half with HST and a different program. My goal, of course, is still size and appearance above all else.
I was planning on doing a full-body 3x10, but I think GVT would be a good fit as it seems completely opposite HST, ie 10 sets vs 1-2 that I do per exercise. On the other hand I really hate doing very few exercises as I want to develop a complete physique without holes, and stuff like rear-delt work, side delts etc is hard to fit into GVT.
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On April 14 2010 11:12 cz wrote:
Cool, I think we agree on most things.
So, without this being a leading question, what do you recommend for me for my next hypertrophy program? I've read that HST is supposed to be used intermittently rather than continuously, so I want to go about half and half with HST and a different program. My goal, of course, is still size and appearance above all else.
I was planning on doing a full-body 3x10, but I think GVT would be a good fit as it seems completely opposite HST, ie 10 sets vs 1-2 that I do per exercise. On the other hand I really hate doing very few exercises as I want to develop a complete physique without holes, and stuff like rear-delt work, side delts etc is hard to fit into GVT.
Well, it depends on how many days a week you can work out.
If you can do say 4 days of lifting a week you can do A/B style for M/Th and Tu/F respectively. For example something along the lines of:
Compounds for legs, pulling and pushing for 2x5/3x5 each on strength progression or something like that:
A: squat, pullups, dips
B: DL, bench, rows
Then add in press, and whatever other accessory work you want to add to shape your physique. If you're doing some type of high reps work like 3x8/3x10 then you could probably add another 2 exercises for each legs/push/pull category without overdoing it if it's specific isolation work. If it's compound then you may only want to add one more per workout.
I am assuming you already have a fair amount of strength and programming knowledge where you would be able to keep yourself balanced...
I really wouldn't recommend GVT unless you want to do something short then a quick recovery because it burns most people out really fast. HST tends to do that too, but usually you can do it a little longer.
As always.. the best program is always the one you're not doing... heh heh. Best results for size I've seen people put on is every about 6-8 weeks switch from higher reps (8-12) to lower reps (4-6) and vice versa.
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On April 14 2010 07:11 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 06:59 Malinor wrote:On April 14 2010 03:56 cz wrote:On April 13 2010 10:07 eshlow wrote:On April 12 2010 13:19 cz wrote:On April 12 2010 13:11 eshlow wrote:On April 10 2010 23:35 RowdierBob wrote:
Eshlow, what in your opinion is the best bench press to do?
I've been doing an all-round body routine lately due to time constraints and only have time for one form of bench. Incline, decline or flat - which is best and why?
Cheers mate. Regular one is fine. If you want a bit more triceps emphasis go with close grip bench. Kinda already answered right below your post though... On April 11 2010 20:04 evanthebouncy! wrote:here's my question now: school getting super busy, probably no time to excercise.. what do I do People always make time for the things they want to do... as stated already. On April 11 2010 21:54 Energies wrote:
Wow, eshlow is spiderman.
My lower back is killing me, I have no idea why. I am getting the same muscle soreness I would get after a day of heavy deadlifts or squats but this time it has stayed with me for like 2 weeks, admittedly I have done some running and light squats in that period. I thought it would be fine yesterday and did some squats, I was working my way up to around 250-260lb, I went to 176lb on my third warm up, it was strange, lifting the weight was easy but the pain after each set was excruciating so I stopped.
Also my deadlift has tanked. I haven't dead lifted in about 3 weeks, I was at around 350lb if the deadlift was my first exercise, but I could still bust out a set of 280-300lb fatigued. I tried it a few days ago and I hadn't worked legs or back that day, I just chose it as a compound exercise. There was 220lb on the bar, I did 3-4 reps and placed the weight down, it was just... too hard.
At the moment my lower back is a little bit tense but no pain. Cycling or running strains it slightly but doing any squats or dead lifts and I'm sure the pain would return. I'm confident the issue will resolve it self if I just allow it enough time to recover but how can I currently maintain my strength and mass without being able to do exercises like squats/deadlifts/Overhead press/cleans ??
I would start to do more mobility work for your back.. maybe some mckenzie exercises too. Maintaining strength and mass is fairly easy -- just eat well. You can still go to the gym and do upper body or bodyweight strength work. Sprinting is great for maintaining mass (and even building it as well). There are lots of alternatives. As for conditioning, you're likely better off doing sprinting and stair running work. That's the most applicable for trekking as well. Stair runs with a heavy backpack would be fun. Remember, the terrain is pretty uneven so I would skip a stair here and there to not let your body get into a rhythm. On April 12 2010 03:35 shmay wrote:On April 11 2010 18:19 Ero-Sennin wrote:On April 11 2010 10:02 shmay wrote:
Speaking of SS. I did my third round of Squats/Deadlifts yesterday and once again felt completely drained today. Is there some way to combat this, or do I just need to wait it out? Drained as in lacking energy? Are you eating a well balanced meal? Eating at least a 3:1 Carb to Protein ratio after working out? Because taking in carbs after a workout can increase your capacity to store muscle gylcogen up to 300%, according to recent studies, anyways. That would definitely help with the "drained" feeling. Headache, and zero energy. I had stuff to do but never made it past my couch. I basically spent my entire day watching DBZ abridged episodes and surfing random sites, then laying down every couple hours because even that fatigued me. Yeah I'm on the PaNu diet, so I'm not getting much carbs haha. Maybe I'll start adding sweet potatoes post work out. Feeling better today tho. On April 11 2010 20:04 evanthebouncy! wrote:here's my question now: school getting super busy, probably no time to excercise.. what do I do pushups / planks. maybe a short run? Low carb is going to be energy draining when you switch... you may want to transition with a bit more carbs. Eat some vegetables, maybe have some fruit. You can drop the carbs from week to week as your body adapts. On April 12 2010 12:36 cz wrote:
Am I the only one here whose primary goal is size? I'm on HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training), a counter-intuitive workout plan and have been noticing visible results quite quickly. I used to do HIT training with a 3-4 day split, always to failure, but it was more tiring on the CNS (really dead between workouts) and gave medium size gains, at least compared to HST. HIT is garbage: 1. without gear (steroids), or 2. unless you're at elite levels where you need such high volume specific focus on a bodypart and the recovery after it (while doing multiple practices a day. HST is fine for hypertrophy. Most of the basic barbell stuff is great for hypertrophy as well. Full body routine in general are superior for most beginners and intermediates. Failure too much is just crappy. HIT is low-volume, high intensity. I have no idea what to think of it as I haven't done enough other programs (my primary goal is size, btw). There's a huge debate with respect to HIT vs volume workouts that is not at all resolved yet: for every guy who thinks HIT is garbage there's a guy who thinks volume is a waste of time. What program would you recommend for an intermediate lifter whose goal is size? One of the basic barbell intermediate programs and lots of food. Likely a linear intermedaite program like Bill Starr's 5x5 So you recommend a strength program for someone looking for size gains? This love for starting strength and its ilk is completely out of hand: sure it's a nice base, but if you have lifted before and want size it is not at all the ideal path. Notes for everyone in this thread: Programs whose goal is to increase muscle size are better at increasing muscle size than programs whose goal is to increase strength, and vice versa. Very basic tenet. This applies less and less, of course, the more of a beginner / novice you are. I happen to think that at the intermediate level, you are still on a strength-level, where you have so much potential. In the end your muscles will grow better if you can squat 400 instead of 300 pounds. So I personally would still go for more strength gains at that level (since you won't gain strength on BB programms so easily), and do hypertrophy-specific stuff later. Besides that, my legs have grown immensly with 3x5/5x5. But that may not account for much, I grow from pretty much anything. But mass gains with 5x5 should be pretty good if you eat enough. I also don't understand your reasoning with respect to why doing a strength program for a long time, even at intermediate levels, before switching to size programs would result in the largest size. If you can squat 400 pounds and you switch to a hypertrophy program, you have little room to improve. If you can squat 200 pounds and start a hypertrophy program, you have a long way to improve while making size gains before nearing your genetic limit. In other words, strength first seems detrimental to overall later size as you have less room to travel. 5x5s.
The line of thinking is actually just a efficiency related thing. When you squat 400 pounds and then start hypertrophy-oriented training, your muscles are very strong and have nearly unlimited possibilities to grow (and they are already pretty big). In the end a weak muscle can only grow so much. I just feel it is easier to get strong first and then worry about hypertrophy, because I believe it works faster/ more efficient than the other way around.
Just an example of my training: I used to do Triceps Cable Pushdowns for triceps work all the time. It was always a grind for me, like 75lbx9 in the last set, the next week 75lbx11 and then when I finally reach 12 I can go to 80lb and start from like 7-8reps. After a few months I had moved the pin 2-3 weights downwards.
After 5 months of doing strength programms and never doing a cable pressdown during the entire time, I was bored once and tried it out. I did 80lbx15 without even recognizing anyting in my muscle, and stopped at 120x6. I could never have done that with some 3x8 Routine.
That's just why I believe strenght first is better. Of course I never did any Deadlifts and Squats on a 3x8 Routine, so this might as well be a factor. So many damn variables.
Just to clarify my point, eshlow and you have discussed most of the stuff already.
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Okay, I severely fucked up my back doing DLs. My school gym doesn't have bumberplates so I started with 35s on each side (to get closer to the correct bar height), which isn't a lot, but goddamn, it was way too much for my first couple times. My back hurts A LOT. It hurts to bike, run up hills, and even while I sleep. I guess I'm gonna see a chiropractor. I really hope this is recoverable.
On April 14 2010 10:21 eshlow wrote:
I like sweet potatoes with butter and cinnamon added.
This is an amazing combination.
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Age:24
Weight:140
Height: 5'11
Goal: Run 1/2 Marathon (13.1mi) in mid May
Currently running 4-5 miles 3x a week.
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Age:22
Weight:160
Height: 5'6
Goal: Bench 315, Squat 500, Deadlift 500
Powerlifter checking in! My current bench 300, squat 465. and deadlift 475.
Trying to do a meet in December and meet these goals!
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hey eshlow, i'm having this lower back problem. whenever my back is in positions similar to how the back is when doing deadlifts or barbell rows, that's when i feel pain on the right side.
it's not like the pain is bad or anything, it's just that annoying nagging pain. i've had this like for a while now, at least 2 months and it comes on and off.
any ideas on how to rid myself of this problem??
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On April 18 2010 16:43 brotosterone wrote:
Age:22
Weight:160
Height: 5'6
Goal: Bench 315, Squat 500, Deadlift 500
Powerlifter checking in! My current bench 300, squat 465. and deadlift 475.
Trying to do a meet in December and meet these goals!
...those are some fucking beastly lifts. great job.
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On April 18 2010 16:43 brotosterone wrote:
Age:22
Weight:160
Height: 5'6
Goal: Bench 315, Squat 500, Deadlift 500
Powerlifter checking in! My current bench 300, squat 465. and deadlift 475.
Trying to do a meet in December and meet these goals!
Seems we have a new go-to guy for questions about heavy lifting, welcome. These numbers are quite impressive, especially at your weight.
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On April 18 2010 19:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 16:43 brotosterone wrote:
Age:22
Weight:160
Height: 5'6
Goal: Bench 315, Squat 500, Deadlift 500
Powerlifter checking in! My current bench 300, squat 465. and deadlift 475.
Trying to do a meet in December and meet these goals! ...those are some fucking beastly lifts. great job.
Seriously, I'm impressed. I'm hovering around 180, and I'm benching 225, deadlifting 335, and squatting...i don't even know. TEACH ME THE WAYS OF THE SWOLE.
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On April 18 2010 16:43 brotosterone wrote:
Age:22
Weight:160
Height: 5'6
Goal: Bench 315, Squat 500, Deadlift 500
Powerlifter checking in! My current bench 300, squat 465. and deadlift 475.
Trying to do a meet in December and meet these goals!
post pics, i'd like to see what you would like doing all that, it's impressive
~but no joke i'd like to see how fit you actually look
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On April 18 2010 16:43 brotosterone wrote:
Age:22
Weight:160
Height: 5'6
Goal: Bench 315, Squat 500, Deadlift 500
Powerlifter checking in! My current bench 300, squat 465. and deadlift 475.
Trying to do a meet in December and meet these goals!
What are your raw lifts and how long have you been lifting?
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On April 18 2010 17:05 unknown.sam wrote:
hey eshlow, i'm having this lower back problem. whenever my back is in positions similar to how the back is when doing deadlifts or barbell rows, that's when i feel pain on the right side.
it's not like the pain is bad or anything, it's just that annoying nagging pain. i've had this like for a while now, at least 2 months and it comes on and off.
any ideas on how to rid myself of this problem??
Is it musclar or spinal/bony?
Read through this and take some notes or details about what affects you and what doesn't or where the pain is. Thn shoot them over to me either here or PM:
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/02/so-you-hurt-your-lower-back/
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On April 19 2010 01:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:I want to get a workout bar. I am trying to decide between these two different kinds: Standard Model ![[image loading]](http://buyer-bazaar.com/image/chin%20up%20bar_Iron%20Gym%20Total%20Upper%20Body%20Workout%20Bar.jpg) Advanced Model ![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31n70n615ZL.jpg) Would the extra grips really be helpful? The only other upper body exercises I plan to do other than things on a bar are a variety of push ups. Would the "sideways" grips and that extra wide grip help target some muscles that would be difficult to get any other way?
Nah, just get he cheap one. Unless you are someone who likes variety and gets bored with working out.
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EPT
