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On September 07 2010 05:10 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 05:03 Drowsy wrote:On September 07 2010 04:48 cz wrote:On September 07 2010 04:24 Drowsy wrote:On September 07 2010 03:33 cz wrote:
I'm also pretty sure a large part of these 10-15lb gains per workout come form changes in speed: form breaks down, the lift slows down. Honestly the gains promised are too big to be believed. 100lbs on your squat in 3 weeks? Not happening. I think I'm actually going to give this a shot, trying as hard as I can, just to prove its not possible. Honestly I can probably increase whatever my 5 rep max is with perfect form + fast speed by 20-25% just by having slightly worse form and much slower speed. I can pretty much guarantee that if I maintain form and speed the weight won't go up anywhere near as fast as Mark "Gym Troll" Rippetoe promises. lol, nobody is claiming 100lbs in 3 weeks, If you'd read the book thoroughly you'd realize that gains slow down over time. If somebody was hideously underweight and could barely squat more than the bar starting off, then yes this is possible, otherwise I'd say it's atypical. 30 the very first week of training properly with good form and eating is likely without accompanying breakdowns in form, but of course there will be a reduction in speed. This is going to take 5k calories/day minimum though. While your lifts will progress linearly, they are still subject to diminishing marginal returns. After the first week or two where the trainee put 30lbs on his 3x5 each week, he'll only be able to put on 15/week or so even eating the same or better than he did the previous week. He'll be able to keep this up for a few months and eventually only 10lbs/week will be possible, once again, keeping nutrition constant. This will keep up for a few months as well, and after this he'll have to move to intermediate programming and will probably only be able to add 5 per week. On September 07 2010 03:24 cz wrote:
This SS stuff is so obviously outright lies and bullshit that I'm going to do it and prove it's wrong. I'm going to go all out and show you that Rippetoes "gains" are complete lies. LOL, "10-15 lbs non-fat mass gain in two weeks. You best be trollin, Rippetoe.
Also the "how much to add" doesn't make sense. I still don't get whether to train to failure each session (but hitting the set/rep goals) or not. Also, pyramiding/etc is not Rippetoes for the novice: I just read the book and he suggested a very linear growth, adding as much as possible each workout. That suggests the ideal is training to failure each workout (else you could have added more weight that workout and hit your set/rep #s). But training to failure on the same workout 3x per week seems overdoing it.
Also, to the person who said "don't train to failure, train for progress," those two aren't mutually exclusive at all, so that doesn't really make sense as a mantra. You're looking into training to failure way too much. You do 3x5 and keep moving up the weight. If you start with a weight you're going to failure with on the 3rd set, you won't move the weight up as fast. Eventually you'll reach a point where each set is near failure but you don't want to delay getting to that point so that you can continually add weight to your worksets. Here's an example for the doubters. An average 20 year old male who is being coached by rip, doing the program, and eating well enough could expect something similar to this: http://www.70sbig.com/?p=627You're already approaching with a losing attitude. I don't think you care about improving, you care about proving Rippetoe wrong so you can justify going back to your bicept curl based routine. "HAH Rip was wrong, t-nation was right, SS is fake and worse than canceraids, time to go back to my bodybuilding split." Even if you're just trolling and don't care if Rip is right or wrong, there's a 95% chance you won't do the program correctly or won't eat enough. The exercises take some time getting the hang of without a coach and you won't be getting the most out of them. Won't be hard. I'll work on my form a bit and will eat enough, then I'll start adding serious weight to the bar as per Rippetoe's programming methods and see what happens. As for training to failure or not, it's a serious and legitimate question. If I did 135 squatting last workout and could do 3x5 150 this workout (barely hitting 3x5), should I? Or should I choose 140, or 145? What is the basis for that decision? It's progression either way, it's just about how close to failure the optimal weight chose should be. It's a very basic programming question, and if you can't give a specific and reasoned answer you have no clue what you are doing in the gym. It depends. How hard was the 135? What's your current bodyweight? How many calories were you able to eat between the day the 135 was done and the 150? Was your rest optimal? How was the form on the 135? If it were me and I got in a gallon of milk the day of the 135 and the day after as well as 2.5k calories on top of the milk and slept 9+ hours each day, I would probably go 150 unless the form was bad. My bodyweight would also play a factor, the more you weigh, the easier time you'll have making big jumps. 145 would be the "safe" bet assuming you're not like 100lbs bw, that's assuming you got a healthy 3.5k calories/day, rested 8 hours, and the weight was moderately hard, and you had decent form. All the small questions don't really matter: I'm saying that I'm confident I could hit 150 lbs with good form for all the sets and reps, though not being able to do one more rep more on the last set (e.g. I'm doing it to failure). There is no need to worry about whether I'm rested enough or ate enough to determine what I could hit: I'm saying 150 is the max with good form and hitting all the sets and reps completely. So why choose 145 instead of 150 if I can hit the 150 today?
If you hit all your reps at 135 with good form and bar speed, you should add 10-15 lbs to your next workout (according to Rippetoe). So, if you are confident that you can hit all your reps at 150 with good form, then do 150. If you don't think you can hit all your reps with good form at 150, then you should only add 10, and what most people are saying is that for a novice, it's usually better to err on the side of caution.
You realize Starting Strength is a program for novices, right? If you are an intermediate or experienced lifter, this program probably won't work for you, and you'll stall quickly because it lacks the variation you need for continued muscle growth.
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On September 07 2010 05:10 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 05:03 Drowsy wrote:On September 07 2010 04:48 cz wrote:On September 07 2010 04:24 Drowsy wrote:On September 07 2010 03:33 cz wrote:
I'm also pretty sure a large part of these 10-15lb gains per workout come form changes in speed: form breaks down, the lift slows down. Honestly the gains promised are too big to be believed. 100lbs on your squat in 3 weeks? Not happening. I think I'm actually going to give this a shot, trying as hard as I can, just to prove its not possible. Honestly I can probably increase whatever my 5 rep max is with perfect form + fast speed by 20-25% just by having slightly worse form and much slower speed. I can pretty much guarantee that if I maintain form and speed the weight won't go up anywhere near as fast as Mark "Gym Troll" Rippetoe promises. lol, nobody is claiming 100lbs in 3 weeks, If you'd read the book thoroughly you'd realize that gains slow down over time. If somebody was hideously underweight and could barely squat more than the bar starting off, then yes this is possible, otherwise I'd say it's atypical. 30 the very first week of training properly with good form and eating is likely without accompanying breakdowns in form, but of course there will be a reduction in speed. This is going to take 5k calories/day minimum though. While your lifts will progress linearly, they are still subject to diminishing marginal returns. After the first week or two where the trainee put 30lbs on his 3x5 each week, he'll only be able to put on 15/week or so even eating the same or better than he did the previous week. He'll be able to keep this up for a few months and eventually only 10lbs/week will be possible, once again, keeping nutrition constant. This will keep up for a few months as well, and after this he'll have to move to intermediate programming and will probably only be able to add 5 per week. On September 07 2010 03:24 cz wrote:
This SS stuff is so obviously outright lies and bullshit that I'm going to do it and prove it's wrong. I'm going to go all out and show you that Rippetoes "gains" are complete lies. LOL, "10-15 lbs non-fat mass gain in two weeks. You best be trollin, Rippetoe.
Also the "how much to add" doesn't make sense. I still don't get whether to train to failure each session (but hitting the set/rep goals) or not. Also, pyramiding/etc is not Rippetoes for the novice: I just read the book and he suggested a very linear growth, adding as much as possible each workout. That suggests the ideal is training to failure each workout (else you could have added more weight that workout and hit your set/rep #s). But training to failure on the same workout 3x per week seems overdoing it.
Also, to the person who said "don't train to failure, train for progress," those two aren't mutually exclusive at all, so that doesn't really make sense as a mantra. You're looking into training to failure way too much. You do 3x5 and keep moving up the weight. If you start with a weight you're going to failure with on the 3rd set, you won't move the weight up as fast. Eventually you'll reach a point where each set is near failure but you don't want to delay getting to that point so that you can continually add weight to your worksets. Here's an example for the doubters. An average 20 year old male who is being coached by rip, doing the program, and eating well enough could expect something similar to this: http://www.70sbig.com/?p=627You're already approaching with a losing attitude. I don't think you care about improving, you care about proving Rippetoe wrong so you can justify going back to your bicept curl based routine. "HAH Rip was wrong, t-nation was right, SS is fake and worse than canceraids, time to go back to my bodybuilding split." Even if you're just trolling and don't care if Rip is right or wrong, there's a 95% chance you won't do the program correctly or won't eat enough. The exercises take some time getting the hang of without a coach and you won't be getting the most out of them. Won't be hard. I'll work on my form a bit and will eat enough, then I'll start adding serious weight to the bar as per Rippetoe's programming methods and see what happens. As for training to failure or not, it's a serious and legitimate question. If I did 135 squatting last workout and could do 3x5 150 this workout (barely hitting 3x5), should I? Or should I choose 140, or 145? What is the basis for that decision? It's progression either way, it's just about how close to failure the optimal weight chose should be. It's a very basic programming question, and if you can't give a specific and reasoned answer you have no clue what you are doing in the gym. It depends. How hard was the 135? What's your current bodyweight? How many calories were you able to eat between the day the 135 was done and the 150? Was your rest optimal? How was the form on the 135? If it were me and I got in a gallon of milk the day of the 135 and the day after as well as 2.5k calories on top of the milk and slept 9+ hours each day, I would probably go 150 unless the form was bad. My bodyweight would also play a factor, the more you weigh, the easier time you'll have making big jumps. 145 would be the "safe" bet assuming you're not like 100lbs bw, that's assuming you got a healthy 3.5k calories/day, rested 8 hours, and the weight was moderately hard, and you had decent form. All the small questions don't really matter: I'm saying that I'm confident I could hit 150 lbs with good form for all the sets and reps, though not being able to do one more rep more on the last set (e.g. I'm doing it to failure). There is no need to worry about whether I'm rested enough or ate enough to determine what I could hit: I'm saying 150 is the max with good form and hitting all the sets and reps completely. So you are saying go for as much as you can do: ideally, choose a weight that you will lift to failure (but hitting all the sets and reps with perfect form). Is that correct?
Yes, you will lift 150 then. "Training to failure" in the bodybuilding sense means taking each set to failure and possibly taking forced reps on top of that. "Training to failure" in the starting strength simply means there's a chance of failing the final set, you don't go all out on the first two and go past 5 reps. Hitting 3 sets of 5 reps and having the last set being absolute max effort is not considered "training to failure". If you were training to absolute failure, you'd do something like 7-8/4/3 and you would never rack the bar and keep going until you fail on the pins.
I guess the simplest way to put it is that you add the maximum weight you can add while getting all 15 reps AND MAINTAINING DECENT FORM. Obviously your squats won't look pretty on the last few reps of the last set; you're learning the exercise still and you're very tired. As long as key things like depth and staying on heels are there it's fine. Don't worry too much about speed or when you fail/get close to failing.
On September 07 2010 06:11 fatduck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 05:10 cz wrote:On September 07 2010 05:03 Drowsy wrote:On September 07 2010 04:48 cz wrote:On September 07 2010 04:24 Drowsy wrote:On September 07 2010 03:33 cz wrote:
I'm also pretty sure a large part of these 10-15lb gains per workout come form changes in speed: form breaks down, the lift slows down. Honestly the gains promised are too big to be believed. 100lbs on your squat in 3 weeks? Not happening. I think I'm actually going to give this a shot, trying as hard as I can, just to prove its not possible. Honestly I can probably increase whatever my 5 rep max is with perfect form + fast speed by 20-25% just by having slightly worse form and much slower speed. I can pretty much guarantee that if I maintain form and speed the weight won't go up anywhere near as fast as Mark "Gym Troll" Rippetoe promises. lol, nobody is claiming 100lbs in 3 weeks, If you'd read the book thoroughly you'd realize that gains slow down over time. If somebody was hideously underweight and could barely squat more than the bar starting off, then yes this is possible, otherwise I'd say it's atypical. 30 the very first week of training properly with good form and eating is likely without accompanying breakdowns in form, but of course there will be a reduction in speed. This is going to take 5k calories/day minimum though. While your lifts will progress linearly, they are still subject to diminishing marginal returns. After the first week or two where the trainee put 30lbs on his 3x5 each week, he'll only be able to put on 15/week or so even eating the same or better than he did the previous week. He'll be able to keep this up for a few months and eventually only 10lbs/week will be possible, once again, keeping nutrition constant. This will keep up for a few months as well, and after this he'll have to move to intermediate programming and will probably only be able to add 5 per week. On September 07 2010 03:24 cz wrote:
This SS stuff is so obviously outright lies and bullshit that I'm going to do it and prove it's wrong. I'm going to go all out and show you that Rippetoes "gains" are complete lies. LOL, "10-15 lbs non-fat mass gain in two weeks. You best be trollin, Rippetoe.
Also the "how much to add" doesn't make sense. I still don't get whether to train to failure each session (but hitting the set/rep goals) or not. Also, pyramiding/etc is not Rippetoes for the novice: I just read the book and he suggested a very linear growth, adding as much as possible each workout. That suggests the ideal is training to failure each workout (else you could have added more weight that workout and hit your set/rep #s). But training to failure on the same workout 3x per week seems overdoing it.
Also, to the person who said "don't train to failure, train for progress," those two aren't mutually exclusive at all, so that doesn't really make sense as a mantra. You're looking into training to failure way too much. You do 3x5 and keep moving up the weight. If you start with a weight you're going to failure with on the 3rd set, you won't move the weight up as fast. Eventually you'll reach a point where each set is near failure but you don't want to delay getting to that point so that you can continually add weight to your worksets. Here's an example for the doubters. An average 20 year old male who is being coached by rip, doing the program, and eating well enough could expect something similar to this: http://www.70sbig.com/?p=627You're already approaching with a losing attitude. I don't think you care about improving, you care about proving Rippetoe wrong so you can justify going back to your bicept curl based routine. "HAH Rip was wrong, t-nation was right, SS is fake and worse than canceraids, time to go back to my bodybuilding split." Even if you're just trolling and don't care if Rip is right or wrong, there's a 95% chance you won't do the program correctly or won't eat enough. The exercises take some time getting the hang of without a coach and you won't be getting the most out of them. Won't be hard. I'll work on my form a bit and will eat enough, then I'll start adding serious weight to the bar as per Rippetoe's programming methods and see what happens. As for training to failure or not, it's a serious and legitimate question. If I did 135 squatting last workout and could do 3x5 150 this workout (barely hitting 3x5), should I? Or should I choose 140, or 145? What is the basis for that decision? It's progression either way, it's just about how close to failure the optimal weight chose should be. It's a very basic programming question, and if you can't give a specific and reasoned answer you have no clue what you are doing in the gym. It depends. How hard was the 135? What's your current bodyweight? How many calories were you able to eat between the day the 135 was done and the 150? Was your rest optimal? How was the form on the 135? If it were me and I got in a gallon of milk the day of the 135 and the day after as well as 2.5k calories on top of the milk and slept 9+ hours each day, I would probably go 150 unless the form was bad. My bodyweight would also play a factor, the more you weigh, the easier time you'll have making big jumps. 145 would be the "safe" bet assuming you're not like 100lbs bw, that's assuming you got a healthy 3.5k calories/day, rested 8 hours, and the weight was moderately hard, and you had decent form. All the small questions don't really matter: I'm saying that I'm confident I could hit 150 lbs with good form for all the sets and reps, though not being able to do one more rep more on the last set (e.g. I'm doing it to failure). There is no need to worry about whether I'm rested enough or ate enough to determine what I could hit: I'm saying 150 is the max with good form and hitting all the sets and reps completely. So why choose 145 instead of 150 if I can hit the 150 today? If you hit all your reps at 135 with good form and bar speed, you should add 10-15 lbs to your next workout (according to Rippetoe). So, if you are confident that you can hit all your reps at 150 with good form, then do 150. If you don't think you can hit all your reps with good form at 150, then you should only add 10, and what most people are saying is that for a novice, it's usually better to err on the side of caution. You realize Starting Strength is a program for novices, right? If you are an intermediate or experienced lifter, this program probably won't work for you, and you'll stall quickly because it lacks the variation you need for continued muscle growth.
unless you're a 90lb middle aged woman, you're nowhere near intermediate or experienced with a 150lb working squat. I'm at double that and still between novice and intermediate programming.
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On September 07 2010 06:37 Drowsy wrote:
unless you're a 90lb middle aged woman, you're nowhere near intermediate or experienced with a 150lb working squat. I'm at double that and still between novice and intermediate programming.
I know that, but cz's post was just a hypothetical question, I don't think he was asking about his actual squat numbers. He seemed to think that Rippetoe was suggesting this program could result in gains like that for anyone, which is obviously not the case. He's not asking for tips on doing SS exercises, he thinks SS is ridiculous and bullshit.
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On September 07 2010 06:48 fatduck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 06:37 Drowsy wrote:
unless you're a 90lb middle aged woman, you're nowhere near intermediate or experienced with a 150lb working squat. I'm at double that and still between novice and intermediate programming.
I know that, but cz's post was just a hypothetical question, I don't think he was asking about his actual squat numbers. He seemed to think that Rippetoe was suggesting this program could result in gains like that for anyone, which is obviously not the case. He's not asking for tips on doing SS exercises, he thinks SS is ridiculous and bullshit.
Anyone who happens to be male, aged 16-35, and without chronic health problems or severe genetic deficiency will be able to make those gains.
Just look at http://startingstrength.com/articles/novice_effect_rippetoe.pdf
It's in the OP and explains the how and why.
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Help!
I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout  .
I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/.
What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back.
How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much.  ?
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btw, today on my squat I did on my worksets 40lbs on eachside of the bar + bar weight.
it felt fucking awesome :D!
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On September 07 2010 09:57 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ?
dont listen to them. RDL is a different lift. Just say you are on a program. They are idiots if they think deadlifts are bad for you.
btw is rippetoe's version any different than a regular deadlift?
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I noticed a lot of people in this thread are drinking a gallon of milk a day (or a lot of milk) - anyone have any good recommendations for a thermos or something that works well with milk? I'm out of my house for 8+ hours a day so I want to take about half my daily milk along with me, but I'm afraid that it will spoil in a regular thermos (most say dairy not recommended). Some of the "vacuum-seal" thermos on Amazon say they keep drinks cold for 24hrs, but they're pretty expensive...is that necessary?
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On September 07 2010 10:23 AoN.DimSum wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 09:57 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ? dont listen to them. RDL is a different lift. Just say you are on a program. They are idiots if they think deadlifts are bad for you. btw is rippetoe's version any different than a regular deadlift?
Yeah, but wouldn't it be rude, to like tell them "to fuck off, I'm on a program?"
Any Ripped suckaz wanna help a unripped whito here? plz?
I thought of doing that, telling them to piss off, I knew what I was doing, but I dunno, felt so wrong ;/.
Edit: I remember reading this website, where they showed the different variations of the deadLift, and they wrote about how each variation targeted different muscles and whatnot.
I know the Romanian and Rippetoe's deadlift (I'm not sure what his variation is called, I think it's Clean or Power Deadlift) are and target different muscles.
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I think your best option is just buying a litre of milk twice a day during the 8 hours you're out of your house. Then just drink the remaining two litres at home
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On September 07 2010 10:47 funkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 10:23 AoN.DimSum wrote:On September 07 2010 09:57 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ? dont listen to them. RDL is a different lift. Just say you are on a program. They are idiots if they think deadlifts are bad for you. btw is rippetoe's version any different than a regular deadlift? Yeah, but wouldn't it be rude, to like tell them "to fuck off, I'm on a program?" Any Ripped suckaz wanna help a unripped whito here? plz? I thought of doing that, telling them to piss off, I knew what I was doing, but I dunno, felt so wrong ;/. Edit: I remember reading this website, where they showed the different variations of the deadLift, and they wrote about how each variation targeted different muscles and whatnot. I know the Romanian and Rippetoe's deadlift (I'm not sure what his variation is called, I think it's Clean or Power Deadlift) are and target different muscles.
just tell em their way hurts ur back? lol
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On September 07 2010 10:47 funkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 10:23 AoN.DimSum wrote:On September 07 2010 09:57 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ? dont listen to them. RDL is a different lift. Just say you are on a program. They are idiots if they think deadlifts are bad for you. btw is rippetoe's version any different than a regular deadlift? Yeah, but wouldn't it be rude, to like tell them "to fuck off, I'm on a program?" Any Ripped suckaz wanna help a unripped whito here? plz? I thought of doing that, telling them to piss off, I knew what I was doing, but I dunno, felt so wrong ;/. Edit: I remember reading this website, where they showed the different variations of the deadLift, and they wrote about how each variation targeted different muscles and whatnot. I know the Romanian and Rippetoe's deadlift (I'm not sure what his variation is called, I think it's Clean or Power Deadlift) are and target different muscles.
rip's deadlift is the standard deadlift and is exactly what you should do. if you do it right you won't hurt your back. moral of the story is: just because someone is at a gym or is big, doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. for example the guys at your gym
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On September 07 2010 10:49 UrASofty wrote:
I think your best option is just buying a litre of milk twice a day during the 8 hours you're out of your house. Then just drink the remaining two litres at home
this is good advice if you're a hardgainer. if you're like me, this will just make you fat
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On September 07 2010 10:49 UrASofty wrote:
I think your best option is just buying a litre of milk twice a day during the 8 hours you're out of your house. Then just drink the remaining two litres at home
How did I not think of that...lol
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On September 07 2010 09:57 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ?
There's a 99% chance they're simply massive faggots who have no clue what they're talking about and will adamantly insist they do regardless. Ignore them or simply tell the truth and say that romanian dls hurt your back and conventional ones don't. Romanian deadlifts or stiff legged deadlifts are a little more complex and probably shouldn't be used until your conventional deadlift form is solid. Good job on keeping with the program so far.
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Yeah, don't bother with RDLs for now. In most cases you'd be using them as a supplement or specific focus to something usually Oly lifting or sprinting.
For pure mass gain yuo want to do just regular DL.
On September 07 2010 02:32 travis wrote:
ok, eshlooooooow
ive started planche work again. doing fingers pointing to the side, now. it's about as easy or maybe even easier to lift up than fingers pointing forward, but balance is definitely waaaay harder. instead of falling "back down" now, my concern seems to be "not falling forward on my face".
im also doing manna work again. im trying to do it fingers pointing backwards. and whereas i was doing pretty good (working on raising my hips up even farther) with fingers pointing forward... with fingers pointing back i cant-even-get-my-legs-off-the-freaking-ground
what the heeellll
what do i do to increase my fingers pointing back strength
ive taken to just doing l-sits with my fingers pointing back. is that a good starting point?
(even that is massively hard lol, but at least doable for 10sec or so).
1. That's pretty standard with planche... it alleviates as you get stronger
2. Starting manna iwth hands backwards I couldn't get them legs off the ground for a month. Then I made fast progress... just keep up the work and you'll get it.
L-sits with hands backwards are OK I guess... it's better to just do MSH though
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funkie,
1. when I first started gym I googled the exercises and printed out their step by step instructions on paper and took them with me. the webite i printed from went into decent detail and said what to do and what not to do, and also tips etc. DO THIS!
2. deadlifts will make your back ache IIRC, they work the back muscles quite hard
3. watch youtube instructional videos to check your form. one thing i didnt know or notice was you should have 1 hand's grip reversed; 1 hand with knuckles up and 1 hand with knuckles down when you hold the bar.
4. you could try asking the fitness instructor of the gym to watch your deadlifts, or just stay on the lookout for ppl doing them and ask them.
milkguy:
thermast is worth it if you reallly think it'll help (i used a cheap, large plastic sports bottle). BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT CLEAN!!!
however, i find it really beneficial to drink milk out of transparent container because you can see how much you've had and how much you need to drink to reach your goal.
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On September 07 2010 09:57 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ?
lol
The first time they come up, kindly thank them for your concern but let them know you are doing what you are doing on purpose. If they don't go away, be more abrupt. If they really keep pressing it, just tell them to leave you alone. Don't get talked into doing anything. You are under no obligation to justify anything you do to random people in gym or in life: don't try to "search for arguments" if you know you are right to convince people you don't care about, just tell them (politely at first) to go away.
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On September 07 2010 09 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ?
I'm in a very similar situation. At the gym, I have been told the following:
1. Make my grip on the bench super wide so it's easier.
2. Use a thumbless grip on the bench press.
3. Don't go so deep when squatting because it's bad for the knees.
All three of these are either blatantly wrong or not conductive to my goals. I want to use a narrower grip on the bench press in order to maximize my growth. I want to wrap my hands around the barbell when I bench so the weight doesn't come crashing down onto my throat, killing me. I want to go deep in the squat because I want to work more than just my quads.
It's really a crappy situation to get advice at the gym (considering 95% of it is wrong), but just remember that you don't have to prove them wrong to do things your way. I just told the wide grip bench guy that it's easier for me to go narrow grip, the thumbless grip dude that it hurts my wrists, and the shallow squat guy that I'm working on flexibility. It's pretty easy to come up with such lies, and if they don't leave you alone, just thank them again for their concern but inform them that you'll progress at your own rate.
As for Cz...
You're really approaching Rippetoe's SS wrong. It's like you want the routine to fail you. Listen, if you aren't into the idea of doing SS, then it's probably best for you to find another program. An enormous part of training is believing that what you are doing is effective. It's the only way that you will stay motivated, perform at the gym, and get results. If you aren't prepared to do this, just stop where you are.
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On September 07 2010 16:50 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 09 funkie wrote:Help! I've been working out pretty good recently, My squat form is sexy, and my press, benchpress, power clean are good too. Good shape and I'm adding 10-15lbs to each workout . I have a problem with deadlift though. Everytime I go to the gym, the guys who work at the gym, tell me "I'm doing it wrong". I'm doing Rippetoe's variation of Deadlift, which starts in a "dead" position, right?. They tell me, it's going to hurt my back and whatnot. This is the second time this has happened. Then they talk me into doing "Romanian Deadlift" which in contrast to Rippetoe's gives me a fucking pain in the lower back :/. What should I do here?, I do all my warmup sets perfectly with Rippetoe's variation, and I feel no pain at all, by the time I do 1 Romanian deadlift, I start to feel some pain in my lower back. How do I counter their arguments? and how do I show them Rippetoe's variation. Taking into consideration none of them speak english, and showing them an article won't help much. ? 3. Don't go so deep when squatting because it's bad for the knees.
Just as a quick aside here, if you're lacking hip mobility (like I am) then there's a high chance your lower back will round when you try to go much further than parallel. I'm training flexibility in order to get past this, but it's something to keep in mind. If you're already a flexible motherfucker then don't worry about it
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EPT
