EPTDiscussion about Riot's LCS Model and Dota - Page 2
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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trollcenter
362 Posts
Personally, from what I've seen (not that much, admittedly), I think CS:GO has the best tournament system at the moment: there are a few majors a year, which is what everyone cares about, then there are some smaller international lans that still bring top teams and only after that there are the online tournaments, which play a smaller part than in Dota. But having just one long running tournament be incredibly boring to me, in LoL it's either you do good in LCS or you're irrelevant as a competitor. It's worse than Dota's TI, because that one takes way less time and leaves space for other tournaments during the year. You'll still have Dreamhacks, ESL's or Starladder throughout the year, which even though are not even close to TI's importance, top teams will still play in without because they're not forced to spend months playing this single tournament that the developer is organising. Having more tournaments is way more interesting, it allows for more teams to make a mark, it allows teams to fail in one and come back strong in another, it creates interesting storylnes, there's simply more diversity all around. I remember at one point when NaVi was absolutely crushing everyone in the West and was the only team in the region that could match up the chinese giants, yet they had never managed to win Dreamhack. They also lost to PGG+4 in a Starladder final once. EG also didn't manage to win Dreamhack until recently, despite being the best Western team for a while. Things like this are why big, separate tournaments are interesting. | ||
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Teradur
97 Posts
I would like to see more structure in the scene as well, I agree that it currently feels oversaturated and messy. I believe Valve could help solving this by doing the following: Name 4-6 tournaments that will be the official ones which count as qualifiers for TI invite (and set certain standards as to format, rules, schedule,etc, they have to follow). Then you can have these major tournaments (lets call them Tier 1 tournaments), which will attract all top teams during a largely second-party organized regular season. And then in summer you will have the TI "Superbowl" closing the year out. At the same time, there can be Tier-2 tournaments, which will not be taken into account for the TI invite, but they can have more freedom when it comes to format. If the scene continues growing, these tier-2 tournaments can at some point serve also as qualifiers for the majors (lets say you have X slots at each major reserved for teams qualifying from less important tournaments, to give new teams a chance and a clear idea of how to start and get to the top + reserved slots for the top teams, updated each season). One thing I liked about the GSL is the code-s, code-a, etc structure, that gives you a clear path as a player as to what you need to do to reach the highest levels. | ||
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molecu
347 Posts
Also, the LCS system for Dota, a blind, a deaf, a cripple, a mute, and a baby will win TI first before that stuff ever works for Dota 2. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
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andyrau
13015 Posts
On December 23 2014 03:03 Pooshlmer wrote: You're aware that the LCS costs a ridiculous amount of money, and is not close to self-sustaining yet? It might in the future, but there's a lot of risk there. the resulting advantages of more exposure and increased consumer (player) consumption aren't exactly tangible it's like saying valve loses money by hosting TI | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 22 2014 21:17 Chexx wrote: 1. point The bigger a game gets the more casual players will you get who only play the game because friends of them play it. They dont really care about the pro scene and therefore will never watch it. A bigger game still naturally has more viewers. On December 22 2014 21:17 Chexx wrote: 2. point regarding the lcs system. OGN switched to the LCS team to offer more stability and allow growth for the smaller teams. Korea has only one team who won it twice. This season a lot of new teams made it into the LCS so in particular the low level range of teams can change easily. I know this, but I'm not bringing it up because anything anyone says about the new OGN format being successful is speculation. 6 months from now, we can talk about how successful it's been. Until then, as you pointed out, OGN's had MORE tournament winner diversity than either LCS, despite using OGN's own traditional tournament format, which runs counter to the OP's argument that the LCS system fosters growth and diversity of tournament winners. Personally, I think OGN's actually done a better job than LCS of fostering my interest in the 5th-10th best teams in its respective region, but that's probably partly my bias and open-mindedness toward the Korean region relative to NA/EU. On December 22 2014 21:17 Chexx wrote: 3. point I dont like to talk about casters because most of the time its personal taste but the LCS casters arent perfect but they know at least the names of the players etc. There's wider variance in caster quality in DotA, but LCS has a better average caster quality because they at least try to throw out the shit ones (the ones like Rivington are again there because of Riot's nepotism--he's been casting for them since way before LCS and they aren't going to fire him even though he's a shit caster). That doesn't mean the LCS system MAKES better casters. Once DotA TOs start being more critical about their choices of casters, we'll see DotA casters stepping up their game too. | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On December 23 2014 03:14 andyrau wrote: nice yango made most of the points i wanted to make the resulting advantages of more exposure and increased consumer (player) consumption aren't exactly tangible it's like saying valve loses money by hosting TI Riot's 2014 revenue is claimed to be ~1 billion USD in 2014. If that's roughly true, the marketing cost of lcs is a rounding error for them. | ||
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
Big roster changes occurs after TI and during New Year/Chinese NY. Besides that you only see the occasional player shifting around. No team swaps 3 players after those phases. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
On December 22 2014 21:17 Chexx wrote: 1. point The bigger a game gets the more casual players will you get who only play the game because friends of them play it. They dont really care about the pro scene and therefore will never watch it. Had to comment on this, though - the reverse is actually true. I haven't played LoL in... two years? Possibly more? But I've watched LCS finals since then, not because I'm suddenly interested in LCS, but because amongst my network of gamer buddies, almost everyone will be watching and talking about it. It's like a popular TV series... Not everyone watches The Walking Dead because they fucking love zombies, but people will watch it because their friend or coworker is inevitably going to ask "Hey did you see the latest walking dead?" and having an experience to bond over -feels good-. | ||
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