I always hear things like "the lane is lost" or "this is an easy lane" when some casters/players see the heroes they are up against, but I have not much clue on why it is so.

For example, when OD is picked, razor is often chosen to pit against him in the same lane cause razor doesn't rely on int and can steal OD's damage (at least what I think of). In other case, I will have to be careful when I'm up against a Juggernaut+CM combo, especially if I am a squishy hero with no escape mechanism.

Could you all in TL provide some examples on how do you know the lane is going to be hard when you know the heroes in the lane?

icystorage

Jollibee19350 Posts

December 02 2014 02:12 GMT

Well, there are heroes that ALMOST wins their lanes (especially mid):
- OD
- Razor
- Viper (Good against some of the 1v2s)

You also have to consider if it's a melee vs ranged match up.
- Viper really really really REAAAAAAAAAAAALLLYYYYYYYYYYYY fucks up melee heroes.

Can he out damage you in cs?
- Another reason why OD, Razor and Viper wins their lanes (out cs-ing their opponents at the same time denying them cs)
- Very obvious example is Tiny vs Techies 1v1 or Lycan + Wolves vs Spec.

Outskilled
- [image loading]

It's going to be hard if you know you will be zoned out.
- Offlane vs Trilane with zoning supports

You can also not win the lane at the same time not lose it much
- Tide offlane pretty much survives most of the time
- DS, can farm via ion shell on creeps at the same time with escape (surge)

im pretty sure more experienced players can chime in on this

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

December 02 2014 02:56 GMT

For 2vX/3vX it gets complicated based on the interactions involving multiple heroes in the lane. For 1v1, it all starts out more or less knowing what the heroes do, and most of the actual interactions from the heroes in question come out naturally from them. High damage heroes out-lasthit low damage heroes, high range heroes outharass low range heroes (exacerbated heavily with orbs), etc. A lot of matchups can be analyzed on a pretty basic level using some simple "obvious" truths and knowledge of the stats and skills of the heroes involved.

ncsix

1370 Posts

December 02 2014 02:57 GMT

On December 02 2014 11:00 gigalib wrote:
I always hear things like "the lane is lost" or "this is an easy lane" when some casters/players see the heroes they are up against, but I have not much clue on why it is so.

For example, when OD is picked, razor is often chosen to pit against him in the same lane cause razor doesn't rely on int and can steal OD's damage (at least what I think of). In other case, I will have to be careful when I'm up against a Juggernaut+CM combo, especially if I am a squishy hero with no escape mechanism.

Could you all in TL provide some examples on how do you know the lane is going to be hard when you know the heroes in the lane?

You'll just need more experience playing the different heroes and their match-ups. A lane is generally "lost" when you give the enemy hero in the lane free farm / kills / snowballs or if you are harassed to the point where you and your lane mates can't get any farm while giving the enemy too much advantage.

but there are a lot of reasons why a lane could be "lost", a gank rotation leading to a multi-kill + a destoyed tower is an obvious example, especially if its your safe lane, leading to loss of jungle control. Rune control or where the creep equilibrium meets could turn the tide, lanes are never "obviously" lost as players have the ability to obtain the advantage.

The point is to understand whether you enter the laning match-up with an advantage or disadvantage and act accordingly. It could be a simple disadvantage like daytime Nightstalker vs 2 ranged heroes, or more complicated situations like tri-lane vs tri-lane, in which case the offensive tri-lane has to work harder to get kills and deny farm, while the defensive tri-lane can stack, pull and use their home side advantage to punish the opposing trilane. If the offensive tri-lane feeds kills where 3 heroes end up being 2 or 3 levels lower then the opponents, its probably a good idea to ditch the offensive and try to recover ground elsewhere.

A defensive tri-lane vs a batrider could lose the laning phase if batrider can steal NC farm, deny runes, harrass supports and get a fast blink. Alternately, Batrider could cut his "losses" and go farm stacked NC camps instead of staying in lane with the high chance of feeding. Off-lane Tidehunter can cut his losses by stacking ancients and farming them later to catch up.

Of course, its not just up to you, so its always important to communicate with your team mates and play the lanes to your team's advantage.

ncsix

1370 Posts

December 02 2014 03:29 GMT

On December 02 2014 11:12 icystorage wrote:
Well, there are heroes that ALMOST wins their lanes (especially mid):
- OD
- Razor
- Viper (Good against some of the 1v2s)

im pretty sure more experienced players can chime in on this

hehe. you mean these win lanes but lose game heroes :p

Mecha King Ghidorah

United States595 Posts

December 02 2014 05:05 GMT

Knowing the capabilities of your hero and their hero as well as yourself is really important to knowing how good a lane will go. For example the enemy picks Huskar and know he is going mid.

As a Viper player in this lane will be be very easy as Vipers abilities counter Huskars abilities and I can easily harass him and trade hits with him and if he ultis I can ulti and kill him. However let's say before picking I notice their team also has a bunch of int and squishy agi heros. I could go nyx mid in this case. Huskar will own the lane and will get free farm but at lvl 6 ik that huskar will ulti me and if I have good awareness and spot him I can spiked carapace and then vendetta for the kill (this is an example of knowing what you could do). As long as I didn't die before that kill I then have the advantage and can either go to lane and have him kill himself again if he goes for a kill or more preferably start roaming with the gold i got from killing Husk.

Basically I'm saying learn both you and your heroes capabilities and how they interact with other hero's and you will learn what lanes are a lost or won lane.

gigalib

16 Posts

December 02 2014 06:37 GMT

Tide offlane pretty much survives most of the time

Yup, I noticed that too, especially when you skill kraken shell and anchor smash first.

A defensive tri-lane vs a batrider could lose the laning phase if batrider can steal NC farm, deny runes, harrass supports and get a fast blink. Alternately, Batrider could cut his "losses" and go farm stacked NC camps instead of staying in lane with the high chance of feeding. Off-lane Tidehunter can cut his losses by stacking ancients and farming them later to catch up.

Yes, I think one of the reason batrider can survive a hard lane is due to the mobility given by firefly.

For 2vX/3vX it gets complicated based on the interactions involving multiple heroes in the lane...A lot of matchups can be analyzed on a pretty basic level using some simple "obvious" truths and knowledge of the stats and skills of the heroes involved.

Do you any specific examples you can think of? One of the intent of my post is to see the common heroes combination / skill builds while dealing with specific hero duo.

As a Viper player in this lane will be be very easy as Vipers abilities counter Huskars abilities and I can easily harass him and trade hits with him and if he ultis I can ulti and kill him. However let's say before picking I notice their team also has a bunch of int and squishy agi heros. I could go nyx mid in this case. Huskar will own the lane and will get free farm but at lvl 6 ik that huskar will ulti me and if I have good awareness and spot him I can spiked carapace and then vendetta for the kill (this is an example of knowing what you could do). As long as I didn't die before that kill I then have the advantage and can either go to lane and have him kill himself again if he goes for a kill or more preferably start roaming with the gold i got from killing Husk.

Thanks, often I encounter situation similar to this, although a particular hero is doing quite well against a specific enemy hero, but you might need to choose another based on enemy team composition as well.

fourthirds

Canada132 Posts

December 02 2014 06:51 GMT

Sometimes winning the lane doesn't mean getting kills or even going even on farm, it just means sapping exp, not dying, and keeping supports tied up in your lane by threatening the carry. Like if you're centaur against somebody squishy, you do a lot of good by menacing the lane, contesting pulls, etc. Space creation is actually a thing, not just a chat wheel option for after you dive the t3.

Arkhe

France116 Posts

December 02 2014 07:24 GMT

I wanted to add to not stop on a matchup, some are horrible and almost auto win/loose but there is other matchup where the one who got the advantage can get outplayed.

I saw a mid TA won mid ez against huskar few days ago i was quite supprised.

Mithhaike

Singapore2759 Posts

December 02 2014 13:53 GMT

#10

On December 02 2014 16:24 Arkhe wrote:
I wanted to add to not stop on a matchup, some are horrible and almost auto win/loose but there is other matchup where the one who got the advantage can get outplayed.

I saw a mid TA won mid ez against huskar few days ago i was quite supprised.

To be far, it's a pretty even match up.