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5930 Posts
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
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On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I'm not putting that much emphasis on dock. Seriously man? I really do respect you, you're way smarter than me in general tech, but please don't put words into my mouth. I said I prefer the taskbar to the dock, I didn't say taskbar vs dock is Windows 7 vs OSX. Pointing out one example isn't "putting too much emphasis" unless you are saying that I'm not going in depth into it, and I'm only quoting one example. The one example certainly doesn't encompass everything there is to say about the subject though.
Again, I feel like you're defending something against me that doesn't need to be defended. People (as far as I could see) don't buy OSX to make it like Windows. The presence of a third party app to make OSX behave like it isn't OSX isn't what persuades somebody to prefer that operating system. It's definitely a NICE addition (that Windows really doesn't employ that well), but again, not something that appeals to me. Why am I not allowed to prefer Windows, acknowledge that OSX is good, but not prefer it? Why is that a bad opinion?
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On November 29 2012 12:25 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion. Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
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On November 29 2012 12:29 khaydarin9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:25 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion. Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion? I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more.
And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
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former applecare tech here
first of all, why do you want a mac? if you just want one to want one, fine, but as you've been told it's overpriced and has compatibility issues with tons of things. However all blizzard games, and pretty much all websites, work just fine!
i don't recommend a portable for what you're talking about doing. gaming on laptops sucks and so does relying on wireless for everything. Of course the macbooks are very nice portables especially with the retina screen, if you are hungry for a portable computer it's a good choice but they do sometimes have heat problems as all portables do.
iMacs are nice machines typically but of course, you can't really upgrade them after purchase and you get much more bang for your buck with a PC. The big screen is GREAT for stream watching though, i will say that, especially for the high-tier tournaments with multiple streams.
Really the only advantage of macs for what you want to do, other than just having the "brand", is Applecare which you should buy if you buy the mac. Aside from the warranty and repairs and a+ customer service, you can call them up and get them to help you set up things like your AppleTV if you have any problems. . You can also slap windows7 on any new mac through boot camp and just enjoy both operating systems.
I recommend these sorts of computers and services to anybody who sucks at/hates computers and chances are with your hobbies, this doesn't describe you.
TLDR; Any new mac will provide what you want, at a high price. You can get identical equipment in a PC for a fraction of the price. Applecare is 100% worth it, if you go with the mac, and they will help you get everything setup if it is apple branded (so your time capsule, your appleTV, etc).
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On November 29 2012 12:37 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:29 khaydarin9 wrote:On November 29 2012 12:25 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion. Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion? I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion. Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more. And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia.
Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever. It's the only Apple product I (had) have aside from the old 1st gen iPod I got as a gift when I was in school (it lasted me six years, and I replaced the battery once; I'd replace it again to get it working, but the generic batteries are impossible to find now). I have an Android phone. I don't particularly like the iOS interface. But when my contract comes up in January and it's cheaper to run the iPhone 5 instead of the Galaxy S III, I'll give it some thought.
EDIT: If I were in the position of buying a desktop, I would in all likelihood get a PC.
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5930 Posts
You said you prefer the taskbar more than the OSX dock and you prefer the way that multitasking works in Windows.
In Windows, multitasking can be done through the taskbar (Aero Peek) and its the only way I can imagine anyone preferring the taskbar over the OSX dock. If that isn't a reason, then both are basically just glorified launchers and there is no reason to prefer one over the other except for aesthetics.
Multitasking in Windows is basically non-existent compared to OSX, especially if we're talking about devices that are using trackpads. You have Aero Peek, alt-tab, that 3D carousel and that's pretty much it. You have additional options in Windows 8 (i.e. win + tab for app switcher) but its still fairly clumsy, so obviously designed for content consumption, the duality of Metro Apps and desktop apps is confusing, and the dependence on hidden menus is problematic. Metro's (Win Phone and Win 8) love for long animations is also annoying.
The dock bounces you to where your app is, which is about the only thing its useful for. You have command + tab, which switches through your apps. You have Mission Control/Expose to go through your individual spaces and put whatever app you want in focus. You have spaces and full screen app switching, which is simply done through easy to use and understand touchpad gestures.
Multitasking just works on a Mac, especially if you have a trackpad. I have no idea how you can prefer multitasking on a Windows PC if you've given OSX a proper go. I haven't heard any good reasons before and judging by their increasing adoption rate compare to PCs I think a lot of people agree too.,
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On November 29 2012 12:55 khaydarin9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:37 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:29 khaydarin9 wrote:On November 29 2012 12:25 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion. Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion? I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion. Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more. And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored. That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia. Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever.
Zomg Apple fan newb
+ Show Spoiler +
I've actually always liked iMacs for video editing and photo editing and such. I had to stitch together a 5 minute video for physics my senior year on a project and it was a nightmare in Windows, so we actually ended up doing it on my partner's brother's MBP. For video/photo/music design stuff, the applications on OSX really are great.
The MBP w/RD is definitely the best computer on the market though, I'd agree with that any day. It's basically (imo) the notebook pretty much perfected (minus obvious power constraints etc). It has good performance, battery, aesthetic, etc. There really isn't a concerted effort from any of the Windows OEMs to match it. The dell XPS 15 and that Asus UX51VZ are good attempts, but they're first gen attempts at really matching the MBP, and they pretty much ended up like the original MBP, good but not perfect.
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On November 29 2012 12:59 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:55 khaydarin9 wrote:On November 29 2012 12:37 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:29 khaydarin9 wrote:On November 29 2012 12:25 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion. Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion? I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion. Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more. And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored. That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia. Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever. Zomg Apple fan newb + Show Spoiler +I've actually always liked iMacs for video editing and photo editing and such. I had to stitch together a 5 minute video for physics my senior year on a project and it was a nightmare in Windows, so we actually ended up doing it on my partner's brother's MBP. For video/photo/music design stuff, the applications on OSX really are great.
Oh God, when I was in film school, we went through a couple of semesters editing on Windows fucking ME because, the tech supervisor said, it was a famously stable OS. Holy shit did we have issues. (And this was, like, 2007). It was such a relief to run AVID on OSX in the next year, although we still did all our sound editing on Windows. If someone told me to run AVID in Windows, I'd grumble really loudly.
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Since we seem to be having an apple versus windows argument:
Ubuntu 12.04 for life :D
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On November 29 2012 13:06 khaydarin9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 12:59 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:55 khaydarin9 wrote:On November 29 2012 12:37 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:29 khaydarin9 wrote:On November 29 2012 12:25 Alryk wrote:On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote:
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion. Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion? I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion. Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more. And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored. That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia. Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever. Zomg Apple fan newb + Show Spoiler +I've actually always liked iMacs for video editing and photo editing and such. I had to stitch together a 5 minute video for physics my senior year on a project and it was a nightmare in Windows, so we actually ended up doing it on my partner's brother's MBP. For video/photo/music design stuff, the applications on OSX really are great. Oh God, when I was in film school, we went through a couple of semesters editing on Windows fucking ME because, the tech supervisor said, it was a famously stable OS. Holy shit did we have issues. (And this was, like, 2007). It was such a relief to run AVID on OSX in the next year, although we still did all our sound editing on Windows. If someone told me to run AVID in Windows, I'd grumble really loudly.
Heh. The thread is starting to get derailed (starting lawl), OP if you're still reading do you have any other questions? We're probably going to get your thread closed for being off topic soon 
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On November 29 2012 06:40 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 05:23 sylverfyre wrote:On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote:
People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows. That seems awfully subjective. Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
That's funny, SC2, Youtube, VLC, they seem to run exactly the same to me whether I'm using an Apple computer or a PC.
Maybe that's why I can never split marines.
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Fwiw, it's unfair to say that the Mac desktops use mobile graphics cards. You're referring to the iMac, an all-in-one that uses a 650M-680M. Other all-in-ones usually have not much better than a 640M, and I don't know of one that sells with a desktop card (it wouldn't fit in the monitor/base, and would be impossible to cool).
Please. Go on ebay, and you'll see GPUs like the 8800, a 3+ year old, completely outdated POS, selling for over $100 used because people want to upgrade their GPU and going to an 8800 for $100 is a better value than anything else. It's terrible.
The hardware on apple is great, but the price and hardware limitations is just ridiculous on them. No one is saying Apple makes bad products, the problem is the pricing. For $3000 I could buy a $1000 intel flagship CPU and just have the best computer possible, but to apple that means a computer that is competitive to a sub-$500 custom build or $1200 alienware.
That said, there are plenty of reasons to buy Apple. For certain coding work, Apple is the way to go with it's linux based system (and ubuntu.. the technology isn't there yet/meme). A lot of professionals, IT included, are better off with Apple. Apple software also is great, and even though they are assholes with how they make it so only apple plugs into apple, when you got a couple apple products, they work together great. And all laptops are overpriced, so Apple is a competitive choice when it comes to laptops.
But if OP is just playing starcraft and doing general computer usage, and/or a home theater set-up with or without light gaming like SC2, Apple is not the way to go.
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On November 29 2012 13:54 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Fwiw, it's unfair to say that the Mac desktops use mobile graphics cards. You're referring to the iMac, an all-in-one that uses a 650M-680M. Other all-in-ones usually have not much better than a 640M, and I don't know of one that sells with a desktop card (it wouldn't fit in the monitor/base, and would be impossible to cool). Please. Go on ebay, and you'll see GPUs like the 8800, a 3+ year old, completely outdated POS, selling for over $100 used because people want to upgrade their GPU and going to an 8800 for $100 is a better value than anything else. It's terrible. The hardware on apple is great, but the price and hardware limitations is just ridiculous on them. No one is saying Apple makes bad products, the problem is the pricing. For $3000 I could buy a $1000 intel flagship CPU and just have the best computer possible, but to apple that means a computer that is competitive to a sub-$500 custom build or $1200 alienware. That said, there are plenty of reasons to buy Apple. For certain coding work, Apple is the way to go with it's linux based system (and ubuntu.. the technology isn't there yet/meme). A lot of professionals, IT included, are better off with Apple. Apple software also is great, and even though they are assholes with how they make it so only apple plugs into apple, when you got a couple apple products, they work together great. And all laptops are overpriced, so Apple is a competitive choice when it comes to laptops. But if OP is just playing starcraft and doing general computer usage, and/or a home theater set-up with or without light gaming like SC2, Apple is not the way to go.
Wait what? The point is that a desktop GPU doesn't fit in an all-in-one, whether its an iMac or a Windows all-in-one... I don't see how the OS makes a difference with physical space constraints...
On November 29 2012 12:58 Womwomwom wrote:
You said you prefer the taskbar more than the OSX dock and you prefer the way that multitasking works in Windows.
In Windows, multitasking can be done through the taskbar (Aero Peek) and its the only way I can imagine anyone preferring the taskbar over the OSX dock. If that isn't a reason, then both are basically just glorified launchers and there is no reason to prefer one over the other except for aesthetics.
Multitasking in Windows is basically non-existent compared to OSX, especially if we're talking about devices that are using trackpads. You have Aero Peek, alt-tab, that 3D carousel and that's pretty much it. You have additional options in Windows 8 (i.e. win + tab for app switcher) but its still fairly clumsy, so obviously designed for content consumption, the duality of Metro Apps and desktop apps is confusing, and the dependence on hidden menus is problematic. Metro's (Win Phone and Win 8) love for long animations is also annoying.
The dock bounces you to where your app is, which is about the only thing its useful for. You have command + tab, which switches through your apps. You have Mission Control/Expose to go through your individual spaces and put whatever app you want in focus. You have spaces and full screen app switching, which is simply done through easy to use and understand touchpad gestures.
Multitasking just works on a Mac, especially if you have a trackpad. I have no idea how you can prefer multitasking on a Windows PC if you've given OSX a proper go. I haven't heard any good reasons before and judging by their increasing adoption rate compare to PCs I think a lot of people agree too.,
Great. That's fine, wonderful, and dandy.
I disagree. I just flat out disagree. I'm sorry if that offends you. I literally do not like how the dock bounces around, changes when you move the mouse to it. It just doesn't work in my head. I don't know why, I can see why other people like it, I don't. The opinion doesn't have to make sense to you, but that doesn't make it any less valid. In my mind's eye, I honestly can't understand why people would want it to do that. But I know people who do, and I know people who swear by it. Do I agree? No. Does that make it less valid? No. Why you won't accept that somebody could like Windows more baffles me.
I have given OSX a proper go. "I have no idea how you can prefer multitasking on OSX if you've given a Windows PC a proper go." And why I don't think that's true, seeing as I understand why somebody might like it, I can still say it. Does that make it wrong? Not necessarily. Why? Because there is no objective chart that can quantitatively measure "ease of use." Even the most well renowned Operating system reviewer in the world (if such a thing exists) is stating his opinion.
I'm saying that all of those wonderful things about OSX that you're talking about don't appeal to me. How do you know how my mind works and what I do or don't like? How can you objectively tell me what is best for me? You can state for hours on end I'm sure about the advantages OSX has over Windows, but at the end of the day I don't care for them, and you have no right to tell me that my self-made opinion is wrong.
Multitasking in Windows is basically non-existent compared to OSX, especially if we're talking about devices that are using trackpads. You have Aero Peek, alt-tab, that 3D carousel and that's pretty much it. You have additional options in Windows 8 (i.e. win + tab for app switcher) but its still fairly clumsy, so obviously designed for content consumption, the duality of Metro Apps and desktop apps is confusing, and the dependence on hidden menus is problematic. Metro's (Win Phone and Win 8) love for long animations is also annoying.
The dock bounces you to where your app is, which is about the only thing its useful for. You have command + tab, which switches through your apps. You have Mission Control/Expose to go through your individual spaces and put whatever app you want in focus. You have spaces and full screen app switching, which is simply done through easy to use and understand touchpad gestures.
Let's see how subjective this is. Please point to qualitative data that makes multitasking in Windows "non-existent."
"Easy to use and understand" is again, subjective. Whether or not I agree (I actually do) is irrelevant, because it is still subjective.
If it's so hard for you to accept that I can be aware of at least the majority of the things that you can tell me about OSX that make it magically better than windows, and still disagree with you, please at least just agree to disagree. I don't know how many other ways I can state "I'm aware of these things, but I politely disagree, even though I see why some might prefer it" to you.
You can go through a million different reasons why an apple is healthier than a lemon, but at the end of the day it is still an apple, and the lemon is still a lemon. And some people will STILL prefer lemons, even if you have no idea why they like the sour taste, and the lemon juice strong enough to destroy your enamel.
Windows Phone appstore is growing faster than the other appstores (and grew significantly faster than Android did, despite having to compete with two ecosystems). And while that is developers and not consumers, Windows Phone sales are also significantly increased compared to in the past, which tends to mean that at least some members of iOS and Android are switching to WP8. Does that mean that WP8 is better than the other solution(s) that has ~90% of the market gobbled up? Not necessarily.
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On November 29 2012 14:22 Alryk wrote:
You can go through a million different reasons why an apple is healthier than a lemon, but at the end of the day it is still an apple, and the lemon is still a lemon. And some people will STILL prefer lemons, even if you have no idea why they like the sour taste, and the lemon juice strong enough to destroy your enamel.
Lemons objectively taste bad, hence your argument is invalid. You must be mentally deficient if you think a lemon tastes better than an apple.
+ Show Spoiler +I actually don't mind lemons, and many apples are so sweet they make me feel sick, so go figure.
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On November 29 2012 14:47 Rollin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 14:22 Alryk wrote:
You can go through a million different reasons why an apple is healthier than a lemon, but at the end of the day it is still an apple, and the lemon is still a lemon. And some people will STILL prefer lemons, even if you have no idea why they like the sour taste, and the lemon juice strong enough to destroy your enamel. Lemons objectively taste bad, hence your argument is invalid. You must be mentally deficient if you think a lemon tastes better than an apple. + Show Spoiler +I actually don't mind lemons, and many apples are so sweet they make me feel sick, so go figure.
Haha, I actually laughed out loud (LOL).
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5930 Posts
You're welcome to disagree. If you want to put forth an opinion, be ready to defend that opinion with actual reasons. Sorry if I'm being rude but literally everyone responds in bad faith when talking about Apple products. If you're defending your opinion with mere emotion then well...
And yes, gesture based multitasking is objectively more user friendly if done properly. Three finger swipe left/right to go to left/right space is objectively more intuitive than keyboard shortcuts. There is nothing subjective about this, its exactly like turning a page.
Its hard for me to understand because close to no one on Teamliquid has actually explained when they think OSX is deficient to Windows in many areas including the so-called multitasking and productivity. Many of the reasons, if they do provide them, are either completely wrong or show a lack of understanding.
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I own and use both Apples (2011 MacBook Pro, 2011 21" iMac) and a PC (HP w/ i7 etc.). I may be a bit backward, but I use the macs for business and PC for pleasure/artsy shit, and I believe it's the way to go.
First off, before I got my PC I was playing SC2 on my macbook. In OSX, even with everything on low I would get bad framerates, long load times and generally unimpressive performance. While I didn't try it, I read in several places that people who installed Windows on a Boot Camp partition had significantly better performance playing on macbooks, than people like me who played the OS/X client. My brother just got a brand new 27 inch iMac, and, while it runs the game fine, my year old PC still loads way faster when we play each other (100% confirmed), and I believe my game looks better and runs smoother (though I cannot confirm this part with 100% certainty, as my bro lives in another state, so I can't exactly look over his shoulder.
On the other hand, in the year I've had my PC, I've reformatted it twice to get rid of viruses and malware, despite having antivirus installed and running and using malwarebytes, and being careful about downloads, never using torrents, and not using it for porn.
The macs have no antivirus/anti-malware and have never had a problem with them. They boot up quickly, the battery lasts longer than any PC laptop I've ever had (and has not degraded near as fast as my PC batteries all did). You can close the lid and it goes into a very efficient standby mode that wakes up almost instantly. It handles backups in an intelligent way without third party software. It runs Office and all my other business software. Before I switched to mac for business, I had a string of laptops die on me for various mysterious reasons--3 in a 2 year period (granted, they were cheapos that my former boss bought).
TL;DR macs are high quality, stable, less prone to viruses and offer intuitive back-up solutions. If I had to have a work computer that just could not fail, I would invest in a mac (as long as it ran the software I need). For gaming and general entertainment, if it won't matter that I have to occasionally wipe the HD and reinstall, I'll always pick a PC.
Hope that helps.
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On November 29 2012 16:24 Womwomwom wrote:
You're welcome to disagree. If you want to put forth an opinion, be ready to defend that opinion with actual reasons. Sorry if I'm being rude but literally everyone responds in bad faith when talking about Apple products.
Its hard for me to understand because close to no one on Teamliquid has actually explained when they think OSX is deficient to Windows in many areas. Many of the reasons, if they do provide them, are either completely wrong or show a lack of understanding why so and so behaves like so.
Except I didn't respond in bad faith  I even agreed that I vastly prefer macs to windows for specific things (music which i did for a while, video/photos) To me, it isn't so much that Windows is by and far better than OSX so much as I don't see huge benefits for either (if anything honestly OSX has huge benefits in media productivity, but I'm not studying anything related to that), and being a gamer, I gravitate towards Windows. I don't necessarily think OSX is deficient as for why I prefer Windows, it's more of a combination of minor things along with the fact that (in my eye), it's biggest benefit doesn't apply to me.
Eh. It's a gaming website. A lot of people are going to be very hardware oriented, which tbh Apple does not excel at value-wise
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EPT
