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Good afternoon people.
I am having trouble pin pointing my problems with my computer and running starcraft 2. It used to work just fine, but as I got better and my friends got better now it runs like poop while playing 4v4's and 3v3's and some times 2v2's.. This is annoying. I also play on low graphics.
here are my specs for my computer and i hope i get some good feedback on how to resolve my issue with Lag during big battles and just making SC2 run better in general.
ASUS P7H55-M/CSM LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
XFX HD-567X-ZNF3 Radeon HD 5670 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
RAIDMAX HYBRID 2 RX-730SS 730W ATX12V V2.2/ EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Modular LED Power Supply
Intel Core i5-650 Clarkdale 3.2GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80616I5650
2 - Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
1 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
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Check temperatures with HWMonitor while you are playing Starcraft II team games or just use a stress test program.
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whats a good stress test program
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prime95 for cpu, furmark for gpu.
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Definitely sounds like a CPU problem (late game + team game slowdowns tend to be the processor dealing with large numbers of units). If the processor isn't overheating, it could be something else. Even a move towards large ling or marine based armies instead of battlecruisers and brood lords - the number of units & their pathing being the big deal for processors.
If the processor is getting hot though, at least you know a good solution. Otherwise you're pretty much stuck with overclocking your processor or being less CPU-intensive in some way.
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how does one overclock there processor?
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You don't, because it will make your overheating problem even worse.
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So I should get a new processor and mother board and this should make things better
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Do the stress test and check the temperature, its possible that you just need new thermal paste/cpu fan.
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Awesome thanks. and i do the stress test and temp check with the furmark program right
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Those computer specs seem just fine. especially on low, maybe not flawless but certainly not slowdown to "poop"... If this was my problem, I would check that I have not accidentally plugged the monitor into the motherboard video HDMI port (because that would use the onboard graphics chip which is in your CPU) ..
If thats not the case then, I would check drivers - make sure to check that you have the latest ATI video drivers from www.ati.com and then make sure you installed the latest motherboard/chipset drivers from www.intel.com .
The video card has the most impact on performance and your Radeon 5670 is the first thing I would change if it were my system.
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html - Radeon 5670 - scored 1,233.
GeForce GTX 460 (my video card runs SC2 fine on Ultra 1920x1200 res) = scores - 2,368 (nearly double) and is now approximately $139.99 so not too much.
These benchmarks are not a direct correlation to real-world performance in SC2 but that should be obvious.
The CPU being i5 Dual-core and 3.2ghz with turbo is still viable + Show Spoiler +edited based on later posts = current generation midrange edited based on later posts = upgrade to Intel quad-core if you cannot fix the slowdown by getting a new video card...
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Maybe i just needa good fan or something to help prevent overheating to my graphics card or processor.... but then again I dont know much about computers.
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The graphic card is pretty weak, should be enough for SC2 on low (but only on low) nevertheless though. Your problem could be gone already by no more than removing the dust inside of the case a bit (and maybe on the gpu and cpu fan if they are accessible). Make sure the fans are all running (also the case fans).
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I have no choice but to try most of these suggestions
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On January 25 2012 03:18 abei1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The video card has the most impact on performance and your Radeon 5670 is the first thing I would change if it were my system. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html - Radeon 5670 - scored 1,233. GeForce GTX 460 (my video card runs SC2 fine on Ultra 1920x1200 res) = scores - 2,368 (nearly double) and is now approximately $139.99 so not too much. The CPU being i5 Dual-core and 3.2ghz with turbo is still current generation midrange but I would advise upgrading to Intel quad-core if you cannot fix the slowdown by getting a new video card... The 5670 has a bigger brother of 5770, 5870, which is last generation and the new current generation (first number 6 instead of 5) are 6770 -> 6870 -> 6970 -> and 6990 so you are about 5 leaps behind maximum single card performance there. again check the video card charts at http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
Terrible terrible information.
No one cares about synthetic benches besides benchmarkers. The 5770 is the same as the 6770 fyi...
A clarkdale is not current generation. The current generation is Sandybridge.
Upgrading to a quad core isn't going to do shit for Starcraft II.
The first thing that needs replacing is the shitty Raidmax.
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I have no choice but to try most of these suggestions
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A friend of mine let me borrow his GeForce GTX 480 and still slow down in big battles, so i switched back to my Radeon thinking it would help with reducing the lag.
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Balladrinho, I'm a Systems Engineer for a large .com corporation, and can easily walk you through fixing your problems. I don't believe a general post on TL is an effective way to get responses from people who have a history of dealing with this type of issue. I normally rip my hair out, and paste other people's comments into AIM and laugh about it.
Instead of standing on the sidelines and laughing at the suggestions, I'd like to help out. PM me when you have a moment and I'll either fix your issue or identify a specific root cause (with a full explanation) that you can resolve for the smallest amount of $$$ possible.
You have the hardware to run SC2. This is a very simple problem with a very simple solution. Do *not* buy any hardware based on the suggestions above. This is my professional opinion, and I hope to hear from you soon. The user abei does know what he's talking about (I'm laughing at the other suggestions with him over PM right now), but him/I can get you back in order with ease.
For a quick fix, follow these $0 cost steps:
Hit ctrl+alt+F when you begin a game.
Disable VSync!!!
Set everything to LOW, and follow the below changes:
Set Terrain and Texture Detail to Medium. Consider setting to low.
Set Shaders to Medium. (This is optional. The reason for this is due to the MASSIVE difference in quality. While LOW is preferred, most players are not willing to trade such an immense amount of graphical improvement for a high framerate.
Set Models to HIGH. (Optional. This let's you discern what unit is warping in. LOW gives you an identical box for all warping-in units)
Set Effects to Medium (Possibly. This can help with visibility of cloaked units and is not necessary.)
Set Movie Quality to high. This happens out-of-game and there's no reason to set it to low.
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Got your PM, I'll see you on Skype tonight 
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Typical systems engineer that doesn't know what he's talking about. How exactly does raising settings solve the problem? How exactly is Clarkdale current generation? The OP is much further behind than 5 leaps for graphics card... GTX 580, GTX 570, GTX 560 Ti 448, GTX 560 Ti, GTX 560, GTX 550 Ti, GTS 450, ... lol. Passmark... lol.
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On January 25 2012 03:42 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 03:18 abei1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The video card has the most impact on performance and your Radeon 5670 is the first thing I would change if it were my system. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html - Radeon 5670 - scored 1,233. GeForce GTX 460 (my video card runs SC2 fine on Ultra 1920x1200 res) = scores - 2,368 (nearly double) and is now approximately $139.99 so not too much. The CPU being i5 Dual-core and 3.2ghz with turbo is still current generation midrange but I would advise upgrading to Intel quad-core if you cannot fix the slowdown by getting a new video card... The 5670 has a bigger brother of 5770, 5870, which is last generation and the new current generation (first number 6 instead of 5) are 6770 -> 6870 -> 6970 -> and 6990 so you are about 5 leaps behind maximum single card performance there. again check the video card charts at http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html Terrible terrible information. No one cares about synthetic benches besides benchmarkers. The 5770 is the same as the 6770 fyi... A clarkdale is not current generation. The current generation is Sandybridge. Upgrading to a quad core isn't going to do shit for Starcraft II. The first thing that needs replacing is the shitty Raidmax.
Out of curiousity - since I know you're batshit insane already - why on earth would his PSU be an issue? Who the hell cares what the name of the "current generation" of chips is? WTF does this have to do with his CPU?
Please do not post in technical help threads when you don't have a damned clue what you're talking about. I have to help people by PM because of all the misinformation given in threads such as these. It's a shame.
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On January 25 2012 04:04 skyR wrote:
Typical systems engineer that doesn't know what he's talking about. How exactly does raising settings solve the problem? How exactly is Clarkdale current generation? The OP is much further behind than 5 leaps for graphics card... GTX 580, GTX 570, GTX 560 Ti 448, GTX 560 Ti, GTX 560, GTX 550 Ti, GTS 450, ... lol. Passmark... lol.
He's being told to use low settings, because his graphics card isn't going to run high settings at 400 supply. Are you even reading the posts? Simply becuase NVIDIA has marketed you into castration, doesn't mean you should start posting your brainless replies on a technical help thread.
I gave the OP my credentials, and am working with him tonight over Skype. We'll have the issue resolved in about 10 minutes, without any hardware purchases that NVIDIA has told you to reccomend to everyone. There's very little difference between the plethora of 1GB video cards you just listed. Anybody can drop $200 on a video card to fix a problem, but what makes you think the OP is going to?
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I should mention to skyR that i have a Bloomfield 45nm quadcore (i7 950) with a GTX 460 and Wolfdale 45nm dual-core (E8500) with a GTS 450 - both 1GB - both run SC2 without turning to "poop"... so his 32nm clarkdale CPU is actually quite current, 32nm is what I consider current... but, performance isnt indicated by the manufacturing process (nm) its the clock speed, the cores, and the architecture.
Sorry for indicating that clarkdale was "current generation" - Yes sandybridge is the latest, but Clarkdale is still 32nm and Sandybridge is only the latest "Tock", which is a bunch of slight improvements... until Intel releases the 22nm Ivy Bridge and all this CPU talk is irrelevant for this SC2 discussion (and if i wanted to go into processor codenames to flaunt knowledge like you seem to want to, I would be quibbling over things that do not matter, and adding confusion to the OP - because as you said a quad-core would not do much for SC2...., so what is there left to discuss on his CPU? The CPU is fine.)
And yes I know that the 5/6 Radeon series are the same, but the 6's are obviously newer and what ATI wants to sell, ... and when you compare the 5670 to the Radeon lines (i dont know why you are going step by step through the GeForce lineage), you are going to find that either way, he is 5+ or more "leaps" behind a current video card, and a lot less "leaps" behind on the CPU aspect.
The "replace the shitty Raidmax" comment is just laughable, because a power supply is not going to introduce performance lag into a computer, period.
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Are you reading his posts? He already stated he runs on low yet you are suggesting to turn certain settings to high. You're spreading misinformation, should we all be ignorant of your misinformation? I didn't recommend any hardware purchases rofl...
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On January 25 2012 04:31 skyR wrote:
Are you reading his posts? He already stated he runs on low yet you are suggesting to turn certain settings to high. You're spreading misinformation, should we all be ignorant of your misinformation? I didn't recommend any hardware purchases rofl...
Zyce is trying to fix his "Settings" instead of talking about "hardware" its as simple as that.
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On January 25 2012 04:27 abei1234 wrote:
I should mention to skyR that i have a Yorkfield 45nm quadcore with a GTX 460 and Wolfdale 45nm dual-core with a GTS 450 that both run SC2 without turning to "poop"... so his CPU is actually quite current, 32nm is what I consider current... until Intel releases the 22nm Ivy Bridge.
Sorry for indicating that clarkdale was "current generation" - Yes sandybridge is the latest, but Clarkdale is still 32nm and Sandybridge is only the latest "Tock" which is a bunch of slight improvements irrelevant for this discussion (and if i wanted to go into processor codenames I would be quibbling over things that do not matter, adding confusion to the OP - because as you said a quad-core would not do much for SC2...., so what is there left to discuss on his CPU? The CPU is fine.)
And yes I know that the 5/6 Radeon series are the same, but the 6's are obviously newer and what ATI wants to sell, ... and when you compare the 5670 to the Radeon lines (i dont know why you are going step by step through the GeForce lineage), you are going to find that either way, he is 5+ or more "leaps" behind a current video card, and a lot less "leaps" behind on the CPU aspect.
The "replace the shitty Raidmax" comment is just laughable, because a power supply is not going to introduce performance lag into a computer, period.
Yorkfield is way better than a dual core clarkdale. but his CPU is better than shitty phenoms that run ultra fine. His gpu is HTPC quality and I wouldnt expect anyone to be able to run games on that. When my 9800gtx fried i sent it in because of its lifetime warranty and they sent me back a shitty 5450. I was flabergasted and when to the store and purchased a 6850 within the same day. Because the 5450 is a HTPC card, and isnt meant for gaming. i did stick it into my system and got subpar performance running 30-50 fps on low. When my 9800gtx was getting 100-120. So its obviously his card performing. If I can run sc2 on a q6600 with ultra with 70-125 fps.
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Yeah im not buying a new power supply I know little about how computers run, but I do know that buying a new power supply will not help my lag issue during game.. POOOOOOOOOP!!!!
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I knew i shouldn't have mentioned "what I have" because it is "way better". But if you read further, I have two machines, and the second one is worse - with a 3.16Ghz E8500 Wolfdale Dual-core which does worse in performance than the OP's. I agree with you on the video card.
Also, while the 5450 Is indeed a HTPC card like you said, the 6850 would be a gaming card, and the 5670 is in the middle (maybe closer to low end than high end, but still middle).
The point to be gathered from almost 2 pages of hardware talk is that the CPU he has should be OK, the video card he has is most likely the bottleneck and THAT is the component to upgrade first. IF ANY.
Honestly i think the 5670 should play "low" fine, but the fact that he swapped a GTX 480 in and he reverted back to his 5670 because it didnt fix his problem and he thought his 5670 was better than a GTX 480 (which its by far NOT) is a crucial piece of info...
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On January 25 2012 04:49 abei1234 wrote:
I knew i shouldn't have mentioned "what I have" because it is "way better". But if you read further, I have two machines, and the second one is worse - with a 3.16Ghz E8500 Wolfdale Dual-core which does worse in performance than the OP's. I agree with you on the video card.
Also, while the 5450 Is indeed a HTPC card like you said, the 6850 would be a gaming card, and the 5670 is in the middle (maybe closer to low end than high end, but still middle).
The point to be gathered from almost 2 pages of hardware talk is that the CPU he has should be OK, the video card he has is most likely the bottleneck and THAT is the component to upgrade first. IF ANY.
the 5770 is mid range, the 5670 is still HTPC, 5770 was the break away from HTPC and into budget gaming. Yes we have concluded its the GPU more so than the CPU. While the OP said he tested a gtx 480 I'm not sure if he was doing things properly, but running drivesweeper and getting rid of the old ATI drivers,and installing new nvidia drivers which is probably why he was getting terrible performance.
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From what I've seen, the 5670 looks more than capable of lowest sc2 up to normal 1920x1200 (It got a minimum of 35 on high at 1920*1200 here), so I don't see how it wouldn't be able to EASILY do 60 fps on low all game long.
The OP really needs to check his temps under load and get back to us, my money is on overheating...
EDIT: Added ending parenthesis 
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On January 25 2012 05:30 Rollin wrote:From what I've seen, the 5670 looks more than capable of lowest sc2 up to normal 1920x1200 (It got a minimum of 35 on high at 1920*1200 here), so I don't see how it wouldn't be able to EASILY do 60 fps on low all game long.
Because that was a Beta version of the game and because it probably was a 1v1 benchmark, not 4v4.
edit) okay it was 2v2. Still not 4v4. And nothing said about the supply. A five minute benchmark starting at 0:00 in a replay means nothing.
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When people refer to "current" and "generation", the majority (everyone) is talking about architecture. We're not talking about the manufacturing process at all because the architecture (Tock) is a much bigger deal than the manufacturing process. Even Intel doesn't market Clarkdale as "current" ... because it's not.
Adding confusion to the thread is by bringing up irrelevant shit like linking to one of the worse benchmarks available on the web (Passmark) and than talking about upgrading the GPU and CPU to play the game on low settings even though his hardware is more than capable of doing so...
No where did I mention that replacing the power supply would fix the problem. But you were talking about purchasing components, of course buying a decent unit would be on the list if you are considering upgrading other components unless you don't care about putting your components at risk with the Raidmax. This is your choice, I don't really care.
A 5670 is more than capable of playing Starcraft II on low.
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If you're wrong, you're wrong, abei. No shame in it.
But there is shame in misleading people. I dunno why you even mentioned quad-core processors, since they're obviously irrelevant to the problem. I don't know why you even mentioned gpus, since they're obviously irrelevant to the problem. If you don't know how to fix it, don't send the guy with the problem on wild-goose chases.
You don't get the kind of slowdowns the OP is experiencing because of the graphics card. Those give you other kinds of slowdowns. Simply bad advice for SC2. Maybe its good advice for whatever RPG, I wouldn't know. But the symptoms are almost certainly CPU related.
@Op, SkyR and perhaps Rollin can help more than I can, so I won't give specific advice. I would ignore talk of GPU problems, unless the slowdowns do NOT get worse later in the games/with more players in the games (GPU stress doesn't increase much as units increase, whereas CPU stress increases far more with increasing # of units).
But basically, the key thing is to make sure you're not overheating. If you are overheating, solve that problem. If not, figure out how to increase CPU power or figure out a setting you've turned up that is increasing CPU demand.
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The original poster fixed his problem by installing his graphics drivers. he was using microsoft default ones. Why would you assume the CPU is at fault ?
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On January 25 2012 12:12 abei1234 wrote:
The original poster fixed his problem by installing his graphics drivers. he was using microsoft default ones. Why would you assume the CPU is at fault ?
Starcraft 2 is cpu heavy when we talk teamgames, most people just generally want temps first to elimitate CPU issues, hell would of been the first thing that crosses my mind when you say "teamgame + xxx hardware = slowdowns" is cpu issues.
Though, im surprised at those attacking skyR when hes probably the most competant and tops near the most valued people on the tech forums.
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We assumed the cpu was at fault because gpu load is much more dependent on map than army size, and because the OP said the lag was in team games (larger armies, much larger cpu load). It was the most logical conclusion. Correcting a graphics driver problem would have yielded similar results in 1v1, which the OP did not state, hence we were misled if that was indeed the issue.
If all evidence points to a specific problem, generally we (in tech support) try to address that specific problem, not make a million random suggestions that may have some bizzare chance of working simply because the OP was confusing.
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Hmm, glad to hear the OP fixed his problem. Good.
By the way, the above two posters illuminated why I added the caveat to my most recent post to not ignore potential GPU problems if more players/units did not exacerbate the problem.
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1156 is last gen and the new i5 1155 (2400+2500) are soo much faster even at 3.1ghz and with a bump to 3.7ghz with no voltage change the 2400 does remarkably, not to mention they are identical in performance to the 2500/2600 @ same speeds in games like SC2 where 8 logical cores will not help you.
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Thanks for explaining the relevancy between CPU and army size, team games and number of players/units, I learned something new. I was only going about solving the problem from a general performance standpoint, because I didnt know those things. Looks like everything is resolved, and I'll avoid posting here in the future since I obviously am not needed.
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On January 25 2012 13:32 abei1234 wrote:
Thanks for explaining the relevancy between CPU and army size, team games and number of players/units, I learned something new. I was only going about solving the problem from a general performance standpoint, because I didnt know those things. Looks like everything is resolved, and I'll avoid posting here in the future since I obviously am not needed.
Not not needed, if you stay and lurk awhile, you can learn a lot. Most of the threads in tech support are the same old thing, so the longer you stay and peruse, the better you will become at answering them.
Sorry for the harsh tone before, I was getting annoyed at all of the unnecessary hate being directed at skyr mainly...
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On January 25 2012 12:12 abei1234 wrote:
The original poster fixed his problem by installing his graphics drivers. he was using microsoft default ones.
Funny as nowadays even the AMD and NVIDIA graphic drivers come and update through Windows Update... unless it has been deactivated.
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The issue was not resolved after updating my drivers..... I went and played a 3v3 team game and I got as low as 2 FPS while playing SC2. I did a restart after updating my drivers. Then loaded the game and was fine in the begining then as soon as somone got attacked, BOOM 2 fps then 10 fps then 2 fps. So what we came to the conclusion is that it has to be my stock heat sink because my computer was running at 105- 110 degree C. So i have ordered a new Zalman heat sink from Newegg. If you guys dont think this will resolve my issue im still open for hearing more information about what else this could be. I really appreciate everyones help on this topic. SC2 is the only computer game I play for fun and would like to be able to play it without all the computer issues. Ty
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Ironic how my suggestion was laughed at and it turns out to be right. I'm not sure why you are wasting money on the heatsink. All you had to do was clean the dust and maybe reseat the heatsink...
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Hey, I have the same problem on my laptop. I also suspect that it's due to overheating (CPU runs at 90+ degrees).
What's a normal, safe temperature for a laptop when playing SC2?
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An i5-650 won't overheat by that much on the stock heatsink unless it's mismounted. If the PC wasn't built by someone competent then that's extremely likely, because those things are tricky. What you need to do is open the box and press down each heatsink pin very hard.
@tskuzzy: You probably need to clear the dust layer from the heatsink. Laptops build those up quickly. Ideally you open it up, remove the fan and brush off the dust layer. If that's not practical, blowing hard into the exhaust vent can help a bit.
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To mention the obvious right here :
Starcraft 2 is a very CPU intensive game in the first place.
It gets worse because even though your i5 processor has 4 cores SC2 is limited to using 2 cores.
Combined, it would mean that in a 4v4 battle it will lag to 5 fps even using a beasty computer.
Running the AI procedures for that many unit is overloading the cpu. Unless Blizzard patched SC2 to use more than 2 cores, there's not much you can do.
Overclocking your cpu will increase performance slightly.
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EPT
