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On November 12 2011 14:27 Womwomwom wrote:There is a time and place for watercooling. Consumer computers is not the place. Heatpipe coolers can cool medium loads much more effectively and efficiently than watercooling hardware. The Thermaltake and Corsair are really nice cases and overall there isn't anything wrong with them. A bit on the expensive side but if you want a cool looking case, no one is going to stop you. The RV03 performs really well, especially for dual GPU systems, but the plastic accents are rather flimsy so you've got to be careful removing the top cover. Because of the rotated motherboard and space savings compared to the RV02/FT02, installing hardware will be more difficult than a typical ATX case. Also, heatpipe coolers on non-reference GPU designs might have trouble performing properly if the company cheaped out of the heatpipe quality - for these GPU coolers to perform perfectly, you need a closed reference design that exhausts air outside.
What you wrote is a little over my head. I'm going to try to recap what you said in order for you to verify that I understood correctly. Additionally, I also have several questions.
What computer system would justify water cooling? You stated that consumer computers are not the place. It's a really broad statement, so it's hard to narrow that down. I plan on over clocking my CPU to squeeze out as much speed as possible -- so I can get more FPS. This generates a considerable amount of heat, coupled with a close to high end GPU (I'm currently debating between the GTX 560 Ti or Radeon HD6950). As I've said before, I'm very inexperienced to builds so I really value your opinion, as well as other posters. I am just trying to make sure the system will have what it needs to be healthy.
You suggested heat-pipe coolers as an altnerative. I am not quite familiar with them. Are they different from fans in general? Is the Noctua NH-U12P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608007) considered to be a heat-pipe cooler?
As far as cases are concerned, I'm not worried about the difficulty of installing it. The ends justify the means to me. It's okay if I go through hell setting it up, as long as it is worth it! 
EDIT: I also didn't understand the point you raised about GPU coolers. I understand how the GPU that you are referencing comes with a fan built in. This feature promotes a cooler GPU, but wouldn't it be just as effective to install another fan below it in the case, or implement liquid cooling?
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On November 12 2011 14:52 Invictus212 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 14:27 Womwomwom wrote:There is a time and place for watercooling. Consumer computers is not the place. Heatpipe coolers can cool medium loads much more effectively and efficiently than watercooling hardware. The Thermaltake and Corsair are really nice cases and overall there isn't anything wrong with them. A bit on the expensive side but if you want a cool looking case, no one is going to stop you. The RV03 performs really well, especially for dual GPU systems, but the plastic accents are rather flimsy so you've got to be careful removing the top cover. Because of the rotated motherboard and space savings compared to the RV02/FT02, installing hardware will be more difficult than a typical ATX case. Also, heatpipe coolers on non-reference GPU designs might have trouble performing properly if the company cheaped out of the heatpipe quality - for these GPU coolers to perform perfectly, you need a closed reference design that exhausts air outside. What you wrote is a little over my head. I'm going to try to recap what you said in order for you to verify that I understood correctly. Additionally, I also have several questions. What computer system would justify water cooling? You stated that consumer computers are not the place. It's a really broad statement, so it's hard to narrow that down. I plan on over clocking my CPU to squeeze out as much speed as possible -- so I can get more FPS. This generates a considerable amount of heat, coupled with a close to high end GPU (I'm currently debating between the GTX 560 Ti or Radeon HD6950). As I've said before, I'm very inexperienced to builds so I really value your opinion, as well as other posters. I am just trying to make sure the system will have what it needs to be healthy. You suggested heat-pipe coolers as an altnerative. I am not quite familiar with them. Are they different from fans in general? Is the Noctua NH-U12P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608007) considered to be a heat-pipe cooler? As far as cases are concerned, I'm not worried about the difficulty of installing it. The ends justify the means to me. It's okay if I go through hell setting it up, as long as it is worth it!
An overclocked i5-2500k and a gtx560ti still qualifies as "consumer." Anything above that would be an 8core server, or a computer running insane autocad or 6 screens at once. You're fine with air cooling
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5930 Posts
I'm bad at explaining things so hopefully this makes sense.
Yes, the Noctua NH-U12P is a heatpipe cooler. Yes, its significantly different to a fan because a fan does nothing but circulate air while a heatpipe cooler will actually conduct heat.
The heatpipe cooler, or heatsink, is meant to make direct contact with the processor itself. When the computer is on, the heatsink will conduct heat being produced by the processor and spread it to the heatpipes; the heatpipes will then spread the heat to the attached aluminium fins; the fans attached to the heatsink will then blow the heat away from the aluminium fins.
Water cooling works in a similar way. The waterblock will conduct heat produced by the processor; the metal waterblock will transmit heat to water; the pump will circulate the water to the aluminium radiator; the fans attached to the radiator will then diffuse the heat. The problem here is that its inefficient (the water needs to travel a lot further to diffuse the heat) and ineffective (you need a noisy pump and fans).
The idea of both methods is to take heat from a concentrated source and spread that heat all over the place. So when is watercooling worthwhile? It will be worthwhile if you need a lot of metal/surface area to cool a very, very hot system. We're talking about a system with three or four high end GPUs, a ton of high end CPUs crammed into a small area, or parts that are overclocked so far that you don't care whether or not your processor is going to melt. That's typically not what consumers buy so don't worry about watercooling.
EDIT: I also didn't understand the point you raised about GPU coolers. I understand how the GPU that you are referencing comes with a fan built in. This feature promotes a cooler GPU, but wouldn't it be just as effective to install another fan below it in the case, or implement liquid cooling?
![[image loading]](http://www.silverstonetek.com/images/memo/5970_in_RV02.jpg)
Silverstone cases like the RV03 look like this. As you can see, the GPU is positioned vertically instead of horizontally. This poses a problem for some GPU heatsinks that use heatpipes.
Heatpipes contain liquid inside them to carry heat around evenly. The problem is that if its rotated 90 degrees, the liquid will have to fight gravity to spread the liquid around properly (liquid will have to go upwards/downwards instead of left/right). You can solve this problem by using a wick structure however this costs more money. Since most cases don't use this rotated motherboard structure, you can't expect all GPU manufacturers to put wicks inside their heatpipes. Reference heatsink designs commissioned by nVidia and AMD will generally contain wicks inside their heatsinks so they will definitely work with Silverstone's rotated motherboard design.
If none of this makes sense, what I'm trying to say is get the Corsair or Thermaltake if you don't want to waste time researching GPU heatsinks or playing Russian roulette. I have a Silverstone FT02 and can confirm some cheaper aftermarket GPU heatsinks (low end Arctic Cooling GPU heatsinks for example) perform like shit inside it.
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Womwomwom, it makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking your time to explain it to me.
EDIT: I'm still working on several drafts for my build, but I find myself stuck on the cooling part. Should I get specific fans, and what heat-pipe cooler should I get? I am trying to break down my future computer into the various components that I need. I cannot envision the cooling system mechanics.
Here are my notes for the cooling components:
SYSTEM COOLING
Liquid
Option #1: Corsair H80
Option #2: Corsair H100
Option #3: Custom/DIY
Air
Option #1:
Option #2:
Option #3:
EDIT2: I'm trying to be as extensive as possible with my draft, which is why I didn't delete the liquid. I'm going to keep these notes when I make future builds, as well as all conversations to serve as a guideline.
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Hey guys, New to the thread here. Ill just get down to it, i want to build a baller ass gaming pc, haha. Im just gonna copy/paste the original post and type in my answers and hopefully somebody can help me out :D
Important questions you should ask yourself
What is your budget?
Well, the budget is slightly complicated, as im going to be building it over the course of the next few months (hoping to have it completed by April or May) I was gonna send some buy links to my parents for Xmas so i can get the build started. around 400$ maybe. Was thinking about a motherboard/processor and maybe some ram for christmas. My winter job starts up soon and thats where the rest of the money comes in. all in all im thinking maybe a $12-1500 total, but its flexible.
What is your resolution?
Big fan of bigger resolutions. maybe around 1900 or so? Currently at 1440X900
What are you using it for?
Primarily Gaming. i want my games to look fabulous on the highest settings. 8 player starcraft phantoms? i dont want my computer to lag. I also want to be able to stream if i want too. not super important but would definitely want something that works decently.
What is your upgrade cycle?
I love to upgrade a little at a time. some ram here, a new video card there. I want this computer to last about 3 years im thinking.
When do you plan on building it?
I want it to be fully assembled by April or May of 2012 if not earlier (the money thing, u know)
Do you plan on overclocking?
Ive never over clocked before, but ive heard alot about it i guess. I want a solid system that again, can just play games at the highest graphics levels.
Do you need an Operating System?
Have my own copy of Windows 7
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Ideally yes, if i can but i fear my price range may restrict this area. lemmie know :D and again, no experience.
I live in a random mountain town up in colorado so i dont have any like, computer tech stores, or deals out here.. its all bikes and skis and outdoor stuff. dont they know they can have all that on their computer? sheesh.
Anyways guys if you help me out you effing rock! i hope to hear from you :D
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5930 Posts
On November 12 2011 15:34 Invictus212 wrote:Womwomwom, it makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking your time to explain it to me. EDIT: I'm still working on several drafts for my build, but I find myself stuck on the cooling part. Should I get specific fans, and what heat-pipe cooler should I get? I am trying to break down my future computer into the various components that I need. I cannot envision the cooling system mechanics. Here are my notes for the cooling components: Show nested quote +SYSTEM COOLING
Liquid
Option #1: Corsair H80
Option #2: Corsair H100
Option #3: Custom/DIY
Air
Option #1:
Option #2:
Option #3: EDIT2: I'm trying to be as extensive as possible with my draft, which is why I didn't delete the liquid. I'm going to keep these notes when I make future builds, as well as all conversations to serve as a guideline.
Air cooling CPU heatsinks:
1) Coolermaster Hyper 212+/Hyper 212 EVO/Xigmatek Gaia
- All very similar, all good performers, all very cheap. Installation might be a bit tricky, however.
2) Gelid Tranquillo
- Shorter than other coolers, which is good for cases with side fans.
3) Noctua NH-U12P SE
- Far more expensive than the others but comes with, by far, the best mounting hardware and fans.
There are a few other options but these are basically the main big hitters in the market. All of these coolers will get very close to performance, or beat, single cell closed loop watercoolers like the Corsair H70 or H80.
As for fans, just use the ones they give you. They'll generally be good enough.
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Isn't Thermalright True Spirit currently preferred to hyper 212 and xigmatek gaia? At least in europe it's same price and performs better, it's a tiny bit better than freezer 13 pro but costs like 6€ more over here(my bad if its not available in NA or is costier).
On November 12 2011 17:40 Baloop wrote:
Hey guys, New to the thread here. Ill just get down to it, i want to build a baller ass gaming pc, haha. Im just gonna copy/paste the original post and type in my answers and hopefully somebody can help me out :D
Important questions you should ask yourself
What is your budget?
Well, the budget is slightly complicated, as im going to be building it over the course of the next few months (hoping to have it completed by April or May) I was gonna send some buy links to my parents for Xmas so i can get the build started. around 400$ maybe. Was thinking about a motherboard/processor and maybe some ram for christmas. My winter job starts up soon and thats where the rest of the money comes in. all in all im thinking maybe a $12-1500 total, but its flexible.
What is your resolution?
Big fan of bigger resolutions. maybe around 1900 or so? Currently at 1440X900
What are you using it for?
Primarily Gaming. i want my games to look fabulous on the highest settings. 8 player starcraft phantoms? i dont want my computer to lag. I also want to be able to stream if i want too. not super important but would definitely want something that works decently.
What is your upgrade cycle?
I love to upgrade a little at a time. some ram here, a new video card there. I want this computer to last about 3 years im thinking.
When do you plan on building it?
I want it to be fully assembled by April or May of 2012 if not earlier (the money thing, u know)
Do you plan on overclocking?
Ive never over clocked before, but ive heard alot about it i guess. I want a solid system that again, can just play games at the highest graphics levels.
Do you need an Operating System?
Have my own copy of Windows 7
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Ideally yes, if i can but i fear my price range may restrict this area. lemmie know :D and again, no experience.
I live in a random mountain town up in colorado so i dont have any like, computer tech stores, or deals out here.. its all bikes and skis and outdoor stuff. dont they know they can have all that on their computer? sheesh.
Anyways guys if you help me out you effing rock! i hope to hear from you :D
Ask them to give you it as money instead as things change until april/may, with every nextgen graphics card and processor being out at least. If you spend it now, at least spend on things like... a SSD, 8gb of RAM, a case, a processor cooler, and a power supply instead of something that's soon going to be replaced by better
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5930 Posts
The old Cogage True Spirit is EOL and only supports LGA1366 and LGA775. Good luck finding the new Thermalright True Spirit in the US because Thermalright pretty much doesn't exist in North America - you can't even find an Archon or Silver Arrow at Newegg.
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On November 12 2011 22:16 Womwomwom wrote:
The old Cogage True Spirit is EOL and only supports LGA1366 and LGA775. Good luck finding the new Thermalright True Spirit in the US because Thermalright pretty much doesn't exist in North America - you can't even find an Archon or Silver Arrow at Newegg.
What about the Mugen 3? Over here its only €5 more than the 212+, €8 more than the Gaia and performs a lot better. It can be a bitch to install though.
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On November 12 2011 22:16 Womwomwom wrote:
The old Cogage True Spirit is EOL and only supports LGA1366 and LGA775. Good luck finding the new Thermalright True Spirit in the US because Thermalright pretty much doesn't exist in North America - you can't even find an Archon or Silver Arrow at Newegg.
Right yeah, I just realized that. =( It's too bad because Thermalright True Spirit atm in eu is the best 25€ cooler along with freezer 13 pro, Thermalright Macho is the best performing 40€ cooler and it's SILENT, and Thermalright Silver Arrow is the best 50€ cooler(best cooler period), and Thermalright HR-02 is the best passive cooler. I don't really understand why NA doesn't try to import? I guess it's for the same reason why freezer 13 pro is 22€ in europe and 50$ in US but why does EU manage to import american products with decent prices? =S
On November 12 2011 22:27 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 22:16 Womwomwom wrote:
The old Cogage True Spirit is EOL and only supports LGA1366 and LGA775. Good luck finding the new Thermalright True Spirit in the US because Thermalright pretty much doesn't exist in North America - you can't even find an Archon or Silver Arrow at Newegg. What about the Mugen 3? Over here its only €5 more than the 212+, €8 more than the Gaia and performs a lot better. It can be a bitch to install though.
Well Mugen 3 is decent but 50€ is really steep for it when it's like 32€ in europe.
Currently Corsair A50 is 9.99$ on newegg after rebate which, in my opinion, is a hilariously good offer.
For the next step above hyper 212+, Newegg has a really poor offering but I'd probably go for Xigmatek Dark Knight at 39$, 19$ after MIR.
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On November 12 2011 23:56 Shikyo wrote:
Currently Corsair A50 is 9.99$ on newegg after rebate which, in my opinion, is a hilariously good offer.
Sometimes I wish we had a newegg equivalent over here 
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On November 12 2011 18:44 Womwomwom wrote:
Air cooling CPU heatsinks:
1) Coolermaster Hyper 212+/Hyper 212 EVO/Xigmatek Gaia
- All very similar, all good performers, all very cheap. Installation might be a bit tricky, however.
2) Gelid Tranquillo
- Shorter than other coolers, which is good for cases with side fans.
3) Noctua NH-U12P SE
- Far more expensive than the others but comes with, by far, the best mounting hardware and fans.
There are a few other options but these are basically the main big hitters in the market. All of these coolers will get very close to performance, or beat, single cell closed loop watercoolers like the Corsair H70 or H80.
As for fans, just use the ones they give you. They'll generally be good enough.
These products are only for the CPU, right? Would I need any other cooling systems? For example, would my GPU need a heatsink as well? Some GPU's come prebuilt with fans and heatsinks. Is that a necessary investment? I found the GPU's that I'm considering with those features.
I am just trying to make sure my cooling system is comprehensive and not missing any components. I don't want to discover flaws with the build when it's too late!
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On November 13 2011 00:42 Invictus212 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 18:44 Womwomwom wrote:
Air cooling CPU heatsinks:
1) Coolermaster Hyper 212+/Hyper 212 EVO/Xigmatek Gaia
- All very similar, all good performers, all very cheap. Installation might be a bit tricky, however.
2) Gelid Tranquillo
- Shorter than other coolers, which is good for cases with side fans.
3) Noctua NH-U12P SE
- Far more expensive than the others but comes with, by far, the best mounting hardware and fans.
There are a few other options but these are basically the main big hitters in the market. All of these coolers will get very close to performance, or beat, single cell closed loop watercoolers like the Corsair H70 or H80.
As for fans, just use the ones they give you. They'll generally be good enough. These products are only for the CPU, right? Would I need any other cooling systems? For example, would my GPU need a heatsink as well? Some GPU's come prebuilt with fans and heatsinks. Is that a necessary investment? I found the GPU's that I'm considering with those features. I am just trying to make sure my cooling system is comprehensive and not missing any components. I don't want to discover flaws with the build when it's too late!
Every GPU comes with a cooler. It is possible to replace a cooler on a GPU, but not as easy as replacing a CPU cooler. Any GPU you can get in shops have coolers which are just fine, just some are better than others.
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On November 12 2011 21:04 Shikyo wrote:Isn't Thermalright True Spirit currently preferred to hyper 212 and xigmatek gaia? At least in europe it's same price and performs better, it's a tiny bit better than freezer 13 pro but costs like 6€ more over here(my bad if its not available in NA or is costier). Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 17:40 Baloop wrote:
Hey guys, New to the thread here. Ill just get down to it, i want to build a baller ass gaming pc, haha. Im just gonna copy/paste the original post and type in my answers and hopefully somebody can help me out :D
Important questions you should ask yourself
What is your budget?
Well, the budget is slightly complicated, as im going to be building it over the course of the next few months (hoping to have it completed by April or May) I was gonna send some buy links to my parents for Xmas so i can get the build started. around 400$ maybe. Was thinking about a motherboard/processor and maybe some ram for christmas. My winter job starts up soon and thats where the rest of the money comes in. all in all im thinking maybe a $12-1500 total, but its flexible.
What is your resolution?
Big fan of bigger resolutions. maybe around 1900 or so? Currently at 1440X900
What are you using it for?
Primarily Gaming. i want my games to look fabulous on the highest settings. 8 player starcraft phantoms? i dont want my computer to lag. I also want to be able to stream if i want too. not super important but would definitely want something that works decently.
What is your upgrade cycle?
I love to upgrade a little at a time. some ram here, a new video card there. I want this computer to last about 3 years im thinking.
When do you plan on building it?
I want it to be fully assembled by April or May of 2012 if not earlier (the money thing, u know)
Do you plan on overclocking?
Ive never over clocked before, but ive heard alot about it i guess. I want a solid system that again, can just play games at the highest graphics levels.
Do you need an Operating System?
Have my own copy of Windows 7
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Ideally yes, if i can but i fear my price range may restrict this area. lemmie know :D and again, no experience.
I live in a random mountain town up in colorado so i dont have any like, computer tech stores, or deals out here.. its all bikes and skis and outdoor stuff. dont they know they can have all that on their computer? sheesh.
Anyways guys if you help me out you effing rock! i hope to hear from you :D Ask them to give you it as money instead as things change until april/may, with every nextgen graphics card and processor being out at least. If you spend it now, at least spend on things like... a SSD, 8gb of RAM, a case, a processor cooler, and a power supply instead of something that's soon going to be replaced by better
Alrighty that makes sense, No i would definitely need help choosing a solid case. I was thinking maybe like 4x4GB Corsair DDR3's. I have absolutely no experience with processor coolers, and if i dont know what motherboard or graphics card im getting how would i choose the right power supply?
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don't need more than 8gb I could almost guarantee.
haf 912 would be pretty solid and affordable I guess
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So if i browse cases and Cooling system online what should i be looking for?
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On November 12 2011 15:34 Invictus212 wrote:
EDIT2: I'm trying to be as extensive as possible with my draft, which is why I didn't delete the liquid. I'm going to keep these notes when I make future builds, as well as all conversations to serve as a guideline.
Noctua is by far the best heatsink to spend money on. Six year warranty backed by lifetime support (aka keep it for the rest of your life until you dabble into liquid cooling as they're provide you a new mounting system free of charge given that you provide them proof of purchase).
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EPT
