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On September 19 2011 11:11 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 11:09 Bambipwnsu wrote:On September 19 2011 11:07 JingleHell wrote:On September 19 2011 11:04 Shikyo wrote:On September 19 2011 10:57 Womwomwom wrote:
i3 2100 isn't outperformed by the 3.5Ghz Phenom II in gaming. In basically every single game, the AMD Phenom II X4 970 BE (that's the 3.5Ghz one) gets slugged to death by the i3 2100 while consuming a significantly less amount of power.
In rendering, the i3 2100 loses because 2 cores + 2 threads can't beat 4 real cores but who are we kidding. If you have to do serious rendering for a living, I'd hope you'd be able to stretch the budget for a really, really good $200 Intel processor.
Bulldozer is clocked too low to make up for the huge IPC deficit. If the stock speeds were somewhere around 4Ghz and the turbo hit something close to 5Ghz, I might give them a chance and I might even look at them for a renderputer but the stock speeds are pretty much the same as Sandy Bridge. In the desktop market, I think AMD is pretty much gone. They're got some relevance with their new mobile chips, in HPC computing because of the sheer number of cores they provide, and ATi. But desktop computing is where single threaded performance is king and they're like 20-30% behind Intel in terms of IPC. In gaming... both an overclocked phenom and i3 are overkill and you're not bottlenecked by them, ESPECIALLY in a budget 500-600 dollar setup, in which case the extre cores should be more helpful. With that said, the fact that sandybridge uses half the power makes it win anyway. Dammit, I really try to see the good points in AMD. See, you're missing something crucial. None of us WANT Intel to dominate like this. We're merely looking at the facts as they exist. If AMD was competitive, prices would be better. And extra cores don't help the majority of users. scratch what I wrote. Best focus point is how bad the intel stock cooler is in comparison to the amd one. sandybridge could probably run at 40 degrees without any cooling tbh
Nope, we've had people in here prove that one wrong. Most notably, the hand tightened screws on an H60...
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I'm looking to build a new gaming PC to play SC2 and BF3 comfortably on high settings at 1920x1080 for about 800-900 bucks. Ideally, I'd like to build it asap from either Newegg.ca or NCIX.com.
Luckily I don't need a monitor, however I do need a copy of Windows 7.
I am not looking to overclock right now, but I think the option to do it later to increase the lifespan of the PC is an attractive one.
I am sure it is possible, however I'm not exactly sure where to start. Thanks in advanced TL.
<3
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5930 Posts
Buy from NCIX. Shipping should be lower and NCIX has better customer services. Apparently.
Search for these in NCIX. This is a rough build, no doubt someone will help you pennypinch.
Processor: i5 2500k
Motherboard: Asrock P67 Pro3
RAM: 2x4GB (8GB total) kit of the cheapest thing you can find.
PSU: XFX Core Edition 550W
Hard Disk: Caviar Blue or F3 Spinpoint.
Graphics card: GTX560 Ti or HD6950 depending on which one is cheaper.
Case: Do you want your case to do anything in particular? Do you want it to be quiet? Do you want it to have a billion hard drive mounts?
Heatsink: Xigmatek Gaia. Hyper 212+ is another option but has an arcane mounting system.
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On September 19 2011 11:26 Womwomwom wrote:
Buy from NCIX. Shipping should be lower and NCIX has better customer services. Apparently.
Search for these in NCIX. This is a rough build, no doubt someone will help you pennypinch.
Processor: i5 2500k
Motherboard: Asrock P67 Pro3
RAM: 2x4GB (8GB total) kit of the cheapest thing you can find.
PSU: XFX Core Edition 550W
Hard Disk: Caviar Blue or F3 Spinpoint.
Graphics card: GTX560 Ti or HD6950 depending on which one is cheaper.
Case: Do you want your case to do anything in particular? Do you want it to be quiet? Do you want it to have a billion hard drive mounts?
Heatsink: Xigmatek Gaia. Hyper 212+ is another option but has an arcane mounting system.
Thanks man!
The case doesn't really need to be anything fancy or glamorous, just needs to fit everything in it and not be a heat magnet.
Do I really need an aftermarket heatsink before i overclock?
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On September 19 2011 11:13 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 11:11 Shikyo wrote:On September 19 2011 11:09 Bambipwnsu wrote:On September 19 2011 11:07 JingleHell wrote:On September 19 2011 11:04 Shikyo wrote:On September 19 2011 10:57 Womwomwom wrote:
i3 2100 isn't outperformed by the 3.5Ghz Phenom II in gaming. In basically every single game, the AMD Phenom II X4 970 BE (that's the 3.5Ghz one) gets slugged to death by the i3 2100 while consuming a significantly less amount of power.
In rendering, the i3 2100 loses because 2 cores + 2 threads can't beat 4 real cores but who are we kidding. If you have to do serious rendering for a living, I'd hope you'd be able to stretch the budget for a really, really good $200 Intel processor.
Bulldozer is clocked too low to make up for the huge IPC deficit. If the stock speeds were somewhere around 4Ghz and the turbo hit something close to 5Ghz, I might give them a chance and I might even look at them for a renderputer but the stock speeds are pretty much the same as Sandy Bridge. In the desktop market, I think AMD is pretty much gone. They're got some relevance with their new mobile chips, in HPC computing because of the sheer number of cores they provide, and ATi. But desktop computing is where single threaded performance is king and they're like 20-30% behind Intel in terms of IPC. In gaming... both an overclocked phenom and i3 are overkill and you're not bottlenecked by them, ESPECIALLY in a budget 500-600 dollar setup, in which case the extre cores should be more helpful. With that said, the fact that sandybridge uses half the power makes it win anyway. Dammit, I really try to see the good points in AMD. See, you're missing something crucial. None of us WANT Intel to dominate like this. We're merely looking at the facts as they exist. If AMD was competitive, prices would be better. And extra cores don't help the majority of users. scratch what I wrote. Best focus point is how bad the intel stock cooler is in comparison to the amd one. sandybridge could probably run at 40 degrees without any cooling tbh Nope, we've had people in here prove that one wrong. Most notably, the hand tightened screws on an H60...
WTF? My Core i5 2500k is sitting idle at 40C right now with a Hyper 212+
Given, I don't have the AC on right now, but still...
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On September 19 2011 11:55 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 11:13 JingleHell wrote:On September 19 2011 11:11 Shikyo wrote:On September 19 2011 11:09 Bambipwnsu wrote:On September 19 2011 11:07 JingleHell wrote:On September 19 2011 11:04 Shikyo wrote:On September 19 2011 10:57 Womwomwom wrote:
i3 2100 isn't outperformed by the 3.5Ghz Phenom II in gaming. In basically every single game, the AMD Phenom II X4 970 BE (that's the 3.5Ghz one) gets slugged to death by the i3 2100 while consuming a significantly less amount of power.
In rendering, the i3 2100 loses because 2 cores + 2 threads can't beat 4 real cores but who are we kidding. If you have to do serious rendering for a living, I'd hope you'd be able to stretch the budget for a really, really good $200 Intel processor.
Bulldozer is clocked too low to make up for the huge IPC deficit. If the stock speeds were somewhere around 4Ghz and the turbo hit something close to 5Ghz, I might give them a chance and I might even look at them for a renderputer but the stock speeds are pretty much the same as Sandy Bridge. In the desktop market, I think AMD is pretty much gone. They're got some relevance with their new mobile chips, in HPC computing because of the sheer number of cores they provide, and ATi. But desktop computing is where single threaded performance is king and they're like 20-30% behind Intel in terms of IPC. In gaming... both an overclocked phenom and i3 are overkill and you're not bottlenecked by them, ESPECIALLY in a budget 500-600 dollar setup, in which case the extre cores should be more helpful. With that said, the fact that sandybridge uses half the power makes it win anyway. Dammit, I really try to see the good points in AMD. See, you're missing something crucial. None of us WANT Intel to dominate like this. We're merely looking at the facts as they exist. If AMD was competitive, prices would be better. And extra cores don't help the majority of users. scratch what I wrote. Best focus point is how bad the intel stock cooler is in comparison to the amd one. sandybridge could probably run at 40 degrees without any cooling tbh Nope, we've had people in here prove that one wrong. Most notably, the hand tightened screws on an H60... WTF? My Core i5 2500k is sitting idle at 40C right now with a Hyper 212+ Given, I don't have the AC on right now, but still...
That was the point. It's easy to get em hot. But yeah. I'm guessing you've noticed that the issues people have seem to rotate, kind of like fashions? About 6-8 weeks ago, it was overheating and inability to install stuff.
Included hand tightened H60 cooler, a GPU put in without removing the case expansion slot cover... was nuts.
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I mean but why would Shikyo even make that guess...? Easy enough to google idle temps of an SB... and realize it'll get hotter as it works harder... and if it's sitting at 55C under partial load on a Hyper 212+ imagine what it would be like without any heatsink...
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5930 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:34 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 11:26 Womwomwom wrote:
Buy from NCIX. Shipping should be lower and NCIX has better customer services. Apparently.
Search for these in NCIX. This is a rough build, no doubt someone will help you pennypinch.
Processor: i5 2500k
Motherboard: Asrock P67 Pro3
RAM: 2x4GB (8GB total) kit of the cheapest thing you can find.
PSU: XFX Core Edition 550W
Hard Disk: Caviar Blue or F3 Spinpoint.
Graphics card: GTX560 Ti or HD6950 depending on which one is cheaper.
Case: Do you want your case to do anything in particular? Do you want it to be quiet? Do you want it to have a billion hard drive mounts?
Heatsink: Xigmatek Gaia. Hyper 212+ is another option but has an arcane mounting system. Thanks man! The case doesn't really need to be anything fancy or glamorous, just needs to fit everything in it and not be a heat magnet. Do I really need an aftermarket heatsink before i overclock?
No you don't need an aftermarket heatsink before you overclock. Its nice to have though considering they're definitely not going to get any larger and its going to make your computer quieter (hopefully!).
Looking at NCIX, right now the Gelid Tranquillo is cheaper and better than the Xigmatek or Hyper 212+ - its smaller, performs similarly, and has a better fan. If you don't mind spending ~$10 more, the Coolermaster V8 isn't a bad choice since it has a solid base instead of those direct heat touch, which can give some dodgy results if mounted incorrectly/has enough manufacturing flaws.
As for cases, Zalman Z9 is pretty decent for the price (after rebates though). It has 0.8mm steel, a fan controller, and hard drive sleds. It should be a lot better than the rock bottom $40 cases you can find on the market.
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On September 19 2011 12:06 jacosajh wrote:
I mean but why would Shikyo even make that guess...? Easy enough to google idle temps of an SB... and realize it'll get hotter as it works harder... and if it's sitting at 55C under partial load on a Hyper 212+ imagine what it would be like without any heatsink...
Umm it's called exaggeration, with the purpose of making it clear that sandybridge runs very cool in comparison to other CPUs of similiar power level.
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On September 19 2011 13:48 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 12:06 jacosajh wrote:
I mean but why would Shikyo even make that guess...? Easy enough to google idle temps of an SB... and realize it'll get hotter as it works harder... and if it's sitting at 55C under partial load on a Hyper 212+ imagine what it would be like without any heatsink... Umm it's called exaggeration, with the purpose of making it clear that sandybridge runs very cool in comparison to other CPUs of similiar power level.
Unless im exaggeration retarded you need to be more clear  (Or else I need something similar to Sheldon's sarcasm sign)
Follow Jinglehell's example and insert frequent usage of the hilarious "metric asston" and other goodies to be more clear. Stating something that isn't too far-fetched prompts alot of "not sure if serious..?"
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On September 19 2011 13:55 Bambipwnsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 13:48 Shikyo wrote:On September 19 2011 12:06 jacosajh wrote:
I mean but why would Shikyo even make that guess...? Easy enough to google idle temps of an SB... and realize it'll get hotter as it works harder... and if it's sitting at 55C under partial load on a Hyper 212+ imagine what it would be like without any heatsink... Umm it's called exaggeration, with the purpose of making it clear that sandybridge runs very cool in comparison to other CPUs of similiar power level. Unless im exaggeration retarded you need to be more clear (Or else I need something similar to Sheldon's sarcasm sign) Follow Jinglehell's example and insert frequent usage of the hilarious "metric asston" and other goodies to be more clear. Stating something that isn't too far-fetched prompts alot of "not sure if serious..?"
That's the point, only the select few are supposed to get it. If you make it obvious it ruins the whole thing.
Anyway final build of the final final build thus far:
![[image loading]](http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5713/01020304.png)
Anything terribly wrong that I should change?
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On September 19 2011 13:48 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 12:06 jacosajh wrote:
I mean but why would Shikyo even make that guess...? Easy enough to google idle temps of an SB... and realize it'll get hotter as it works harder... and if it's sitting at 55C under partial load on a Hyper 212+ imagine what it would be like without any heatsink... Umm it's called exaggeration, with the purpose of making it clear that sandybridge runs very cool in comparison to other CPUs of similiar power level.
Wasn't clear.
And it runs about as hot as 1st gen Intel? AMD or anything previously runs a little cooler but doesn't have similar power level. I don't get it?
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Hey everyone, I need an upgrade for my computer to be able to run SC2 windowed fullscreen while streaming. Currently I will get down to 10-20 FPS(depending on settings).
The thing is when it comes to streaming, I don't know what's my choke, I can get a second video card if that's the problem, I can also buy another 4 gigs of RAM if that's the problem. But I don't know, anyone have a better idea than me?
Here's my specs:
Software: XSplit or FMLE/VHScrCap, both of them work as well as the other, I'll probably swap to FMLE once xsplit is no longer in beta.
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
OS: Windows 7 pro 64 bit
GPU: XFX ATI Radeon HD 5870
RAM: OCZ DDR3 1600
Streaming site: Twitch.tv
![[image loading]](http://www.speedtest.net/result/1490246170.png)
As it stands I would be willing to buy another 4 gigs of RAM orr to buy a new Radeon HD 5870 to crossfire(if I can find one to buy) but I really don't know what my limiting factor is...
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On September 19 2011 14:46 Ghyslyn wrote:Hey everyone, I need an upgrade for my computer to be able to run SC2 windowed fullscreen while streaming. Currently I will get down to 10-20 FPS(depending on settings). The thing is when it comes to streaming, I don't know what's my choke, I can get a second video card if that's the problem, I can also buy another 4 gigs of RAM if that's the problem. But I don't know, anyone have a better idea than me? Here's my specs: Software: XSplit or FMLE/VHScrCap, both of them work as well as the other, I'll probably swap to FMLE once xsplit is no longer in beta. CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz OS: Windows 7 pro 64 bit GPU: XFX ATI Radeon HD 5870RAM: OCZ DDR3 1600Streaming site: Twitch.tv As it stands I would be willing to buy another 4 gigs of RAM orr to buy a new Radeon HD 5870 to crossfire(if I can find one to buy) but I really don't know what my limiting factor is...
What's your HDD?
What's your resolution?
What's your ingame quality?
Well without this information there's 2 reasons I can come up:
1. Your HDD can't handle it, especially if you save your recordings on your HD while streaming
2. Your SC2 settings are very high and your CPU can't handle that and streaming
RAM might also be a problem. I don't understand why you have super fast RAM and don't overclock.
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@Ghyslyn
HD 5870 + Phenom II X4 955 + 4GB of RAM should run SC2 sufficiently on at least High everything @ 1080p. Without streaming.
That speedtest result almost makes me feel like this is a troll post, but in case it's not...
Your internet is also more than good enough also.
But when you add streaming into the mix, it makes your CPU work harder. Streaming is very strenuous on your CPU. So that's about the only part of your equipment that needs improvement.
Lower your CPU settings on SC2 (Physics, etc. -- when you mouse-over the settings, it'll tell you whether its CPU or GPU intensive) and on your stream as well, and see what happens. Also, overclock your CPU to get some gains in performance. If an i5 2400 can only stream decently @ 720p, you definitely will not be able too without some trade-offs. I'd try for a high-quality 480p maybe.
Getting a new GPU will have no bearing on your streaming/gaming performance in this case.
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Yea, I thought I'd be trolling too with all my details and such.
HDD = Currently running SC2 off my secondary, 1.5 TB WDC WD15EARS-00Z5B1
I know very little about this HDD, but I know my primary is a 5 year old 250gb drive and theoretically should be slower than my secondary which I got for christmas.
Resolution=1920x1080, through an HDMI cord on my 24 inch monitor, I have a secondary as well running through a DVI to VGA adapter(or converter? English is not my first laguage) at my vid card, the secondary is a 19 inch 4x3 viewsonic which runs at 1280x1024.
In game quality I've tried everything, with minimal impact to actual game performance. Yes that's right, I've played on the absolute minimal settings and still can't get up to 20 FPS when in windowed fullscreen.
Here's the interesting part, whenever I'm not trying to stream I run SC2 in Fullscreen with every graphics setting maxed and I get down to 45 fps at the lowest in any regular 1v1, I average around 60 fps.
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Nothing terribly wrong. It's hard to gauge prices without a reference, but some comments:
1. If the Ripjaws aren't the cheapest, get something else.
2. Corsair A70 is a bit loud for what it does, which may or may not be an issue for you.
3. Unless you need Win7 Pro features, get Win7 Home Premium if it's cheaper.
4. For reasons stated a million times (so I'm sure you understand), I'd not get Crossfire HD 6870s unless you're willing to put up with all that and need the performance, like for a 120 Hz monitor or higher than 1920x1200 resolution, or just really high AA/AF and max settings on more demanding games. New generation of GPUs is not too far off, and whatever comes afterwards is just going to be better. For most users there seems little motivation to get that much performance now with the current games available, and sinking extra money now into soon-to-be-outdated tech doesn't seem like a great idea.
5. If Xonar DX is cheaper, that's pretty much a PCIe equivalent. If you're looking to drive headphones, DG is cheaper and better, and might be a better value anyway if you want to upgrade onboard sound for some higher-end speakers and you don't have a receiver.
6. 850W is overkill for Crossfire HD 6870s. 650W version is plenty. XFX Pro 650/750/850 are good picks.
7. You're aware of current SandForce reliability issues right? Not like it affects everybody, but there are enough complaints to be worrisome.
8. CM 690 ii Advanced comes with a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter so an extra one is unnecessary.
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Do you know any way to test for this?
As it stands, SC2 windowed fullscreen seems to be the only game I ever get lag issues with.
Any other game I own(that's about 70+ games on my computer right now) has 0 lag issues even with all settings maxxed.
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@Ghyslyn
I'm assuming that you also have CPU settings at max because they are "mixed-in" with your graphic settings. Without streaming, non-windowed full-screen, that's about right for a Phenom II X4 955 -- 60 fps average / 45 low. I don't understand your comment about windowed full-screen. If you mean to say that FPS lowers at windowed vs non-windowed, streaming aside, that's an entirely different issue. I would just try to get a stable SC2 stream in non-windowed full-screen to eliminate any possible issues that it's not your CPU.
Your HDD is not ideal as a boot-up/OS drive but shouldn't be your issue. It's a 5400 RPM drive meant for storage.
Streaming is going to eat up your CPU, so it's normal for your in-game performance to suffer unless it's adequate for the settings you have on both the game and stream. Have you tried lowering all of the CPU-settings (different from Graphics settings) on SC2 as well as lowering the stream settings (i.e. start at medium-ish 480p)? Also, you could overclock the CPU to get some more performance.
@Myrm
Hadn't paid attention to SandForce issues. I've perused through some complaints but didn't look into it enough that when an OCZ Solid 3 went on Shell Shocker, I jumped on it. So far so good though. I really should've looked into it though because reading after-the-fact is making me really worried -_-
I was actually looking at Anand's twitter back-and-forth with some people and on person was saying they had to re-install Windows every other week or so. WTF?
@Shikyo
If you're already getting the 120GB SSD, why do you need the Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200 RPM? Why not just get a 5400 RPM?
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EPT
