EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1344
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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grockey
United States51 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On January 14 2013 07:57 n0ise wrote: Do our mothers know each other? Have I been over for Thanksgiving and drank too much again? I only post on TL naked, with my bow tie on and a while sipping from a glass of red wine. Let's try to be at least half as gentleman-ish, shall we? Sorry, that was not properly prefaced. I meant to (and did not explicitly) direct that at those who believe the results at face value and can't find fault with the reported numbers, not anybody who wants further clarification and is asking questions. My respect for the average computer enthusiast forum / video commenter is rather low, that's all. i.e. the people that try to keep up and read a lot of things, yet somehow have a very low ability to understand and process such information, form strong opinions based on bad or misinterpreted evidence. To be honest, the results are so bad that I was mighty peeved that they were discussed at all, yet alone twice. On January 14 2013 12:34 grockey wrote: Hello, I am hoping to build my first PC, I am not looking to pay more than $800 (if I could go less that'd be amazing) I will be using this for gaming. I am pretty new to hardware and all I really know is that I want an Intel i5 processor. I will be building from scratch, meaning I will need to factor in a screen and keyboard (I have a mouse) in the overall cost. If possible I would like to eventually have dual screens (I have no idea how to make this work, but will have to wait to make possible for money reasons). Need OS? Can't get it somewhere discounted? What kinds of games? What kinds of graphics settings? Would you be playing new releases in the future? | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37064 Posts
So my friend wants to buy a new computer. I have a friend at Purdue who is a computer science major. I got both of them together in a skype conversation and my computer science major friend was able to recommend these things for his new computer: + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel i7 3770K http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 $300 RAM: Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233386 $65 MB: ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157295 $160 HDD: Seagate 500GB 7200rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148767 $65 PU: Coolmaster 720W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171067 $100 Graphics Card: EVGA GTX 570 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130613 $240 CASES: More Expensive Cool case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129097 $110 Less Expensive not as cool case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 $54 After several weeks, my friend found this link on best buy and wanted to know which computer would be better. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus - Essentio Desktop - 8GB Memory - 1TB Hard Drive/6699862.p?id=1218786214592&skuId=6699862&st=asus- If he buys the parts for computer 1, he has to assemble it himself. If he buys computer 2, then it's already built for him. Forgot to mention, my friend's budget is $1000 or less. I would very much appreciate any help or feedback. -Seeker | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On January 14 2013 13:28 Seeker wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hello TL, I need some assistance please. So my friend wants to buy a new computer. I have a friend at Purdue who is a computer science major. I got both of them together in a skype conversation and my computer science major friend was able to recommend these things for his new computer: + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel i7 3770K http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 $300 RAM: Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233386 $65 MB: ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157295 $160 HDD: Seagate 500GB 7200rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148767 $65 PU: Coolmaster 720W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171067 $100 Graphics Card: EVGA GTX 570 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130613 $240 CASES: More Expensive Cool case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129097 $110 Less Expensive not as cool case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 $54 After several weeks, my friend found this link on best buy and wanted to know which computer would be better. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus - Essentio Desktop - 8GB Memory - 1TB Hard Drive/6699862.p?id=1218786214592&skuId=6699862&st=asus- If he buys the parts for computer 1, he has to assemble it himself. If he buys computer 2, then it's already built for him. Forgot to mention, my friend's budget is $1000 or less. I would very much appreciate any help or feedback. -Seeker What's the computer going to be used for? The key differences are that the second option has a vastly worse graphics card not really intended to run any type of modern 3D games, and it doesn't have a power supply (case to some extent) to handle some better video card. But the first option also seems confused, has some very inefficient picks and also parts that are well outdated, as in even prior to several weeks ago. Depending on what the computer is needed for, it could be really bad or just mostly bad. | ||
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grockey
United States51 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On January 14 2013 13:28 Seeker wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Hello TL, I need some assistance please. So my friend wants to buy a new computer. I have a friend at Purdue who is a computer science major. I got both of them together in a skype conversation and my computer science major friend was able to recommend these things for his new computer: + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel i7 3770K http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 $300 RAM: Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233386 $65 MB: ASRock Z77 Extreme 6 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157295 $160 HDD: Seagate 500GB 7200rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148767 $65 PU: Coolmaster 720W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171067 $100 Graphics Card: EVGA GTX 570 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130613 $240 CASES: More Expensive Cool case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129097 $110 Less Expensive not as cool case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 $54 After several weeks, my friend found this link on best buy and wanted to know which computer would be better. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus - Essentio Desktop - 8GB Memory - 1TB Hard Drive/6699862.p?id=1218786214592&skuId=6699862&st=asus- If he buys the parts for computer 1, he has to assemble it himself. If he buys computer 2, then it's already built for him. Forgot to mention, my friend's budget is $1000 or less. I would very much appreciate any help or feedback. -Seeker Just because an individual majors in a computer or engineering related field, it doesn't mean they know anything about consumer computer hardware. The list of recommended components is a very poorly thought out list. A GTX 570 sort of gets stomped on in all aspects by a Radeon HD7870 and a GTX 660, which are both about the same price or less expensive. A ~700w unit is not necessary for a single GPU configuration, or even a modern two GPU configuration. The Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 is also a poor choice of a unit as it is only 80PLUS Bronze and carries a two year warranty. There are significantly better choices if you want to do SLI such as a Rosewill Capstone 650M which is less expensive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182263 If you're not doing SLI then you can just get a Rosewill Capstone 450 for $60: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 Asrock Z77 Extreme6 is relatively high-end for a noobie. Antec Nine Hundred Two v3 is dated, same with the Antec Three Hundred but it doesn't really matter if you want to deal with it because the case is aesthetically pleasing to you. It's also missing a heatsink since you will be overclocking with a K suffix processor and such an expensive Z77 board. I presume this computer isn't only going to be used for gaming (hence the choice of a 3770k and 16gb of memory) and the operating system is accounted for (otherwise you'll have to account for that cost as well). ASUS prebuilt from Bestbuy is terrible. An very old or low quality (or both) power supply, the most basic graphics card that isn't capable of gaming at 1080p smoothly (this point doesn't matter if the computer isn't going to be used for gaming), terrible case, one year warranty, and overpriced. If your friend wants to be lazy and go for a prebuilt, there's probably less shitty ones on Newegg and from Ibuypower / Cyberpower directly. | ||
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37064 Posts
On January 14 2013 13:57 skyR wrote: Just because an individual majors in a computer or engineering related field, it doesn't mean they know anything about consumer computer hardware. The list of recommended components is a very poorly thought out list. A GTX 570 sort of gets stomped on in all aspects by a Radeon HD7870 and a GTX 660, which are both about the same price or less expensive. A ~700w unit is not necessary for a single GPU configuration, or even a modern two GPU configuration. The Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 is also a poor choice of a unit as it is only 80PLUS Bronze and carries a two year warranty. There are significantly better choices if you want to do SLI such as a Rosewill Capstone 650M which is less expensive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182263 If you're not doing SLI then you can just get a Rosewill Capstone 450 for $60: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 Asrock Z77 Extreme6 is relatively high-end for a noobie. Antec Nine Hundred Two v3 is dated, same with the Antec Three Hundred but it doesn't really matter if you want to deal with it because the case is aesthetically pleasing to you. It's also missing a heatsink since you will be overclocking with a K suffix processor and such an expensive Z77 board. I presume this computer isn't only going to be used for gaming (hence the choice of a 3770k and 16gb of memory) and the operating system is accounted for (otherwise you'll have to account for that cost as well). ASUS prebuilt from Bestbuy is terrible. An very old or low quality (or both) power supply, the most basic graphics card that isn't capable of gaming at 1080p smoothly (this point doesn't matter if the computer isn't going to be used for gaming), terrible case, one year warranty, and overpriced. If your friend wants to be lazy and go for a prebuilt, there's probably less shitty ones on Newegg and from Ibuypower / Cyberpower directly. The computer will be used for gaming but not for games that require insanely high graphics. My friend just wants to be able to play SC2 on highest settings and DotA 2 on highest settings. As long as the computer can accomplish that, he really doesn't want anything more. I realize that the things my friend picked out for him are somewhat outdated and not very good. That's only because my friend specifically doesn't want a really awesome computer. Just one that can sustain SC2 and DotA 2. Also, he's on a very tight budget so he needs a lot of stuff that must total to $1000 or less. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Anybody know anything about AVADirect? They have systems reviewed sometimes on AnandTech, got a few with SPCR cert. Resellerratings (for what little that's worth): http://www.resellerratings.com/store/AVA_Direct http://www.resellerratings.com/store/CyberPower http://www.resellerratings.com/store/iBUYPOWER Prices for the configurators are not high like a high-end boutique like Puget, Falcon Northwest, etc., in line with the budget guys (though of course worse than building yourself): http://www.avadirect.com/desktop-pc-configurator.asp?PRID=24473 A lot of options are listed. Reasonable power supplies like Corsair CX500 V2, Seasonic G Series 360W, and of course the expensive stuff; rather than TX650 V2 being the cheapest non-mystery brand. Lots of case options, some cheap like Zalman Z9 and the usual suspects on up from there from Antec / BitFenix / Fractal Design / etc. Cheap B75 motherboards, more expensive options too. Decently-wide SSD selection. Trap or no? On January 14 2013 14:55 Seeker wrote: I realize that the things my friend picked out for him are somewhat outdated and not very good. That's only because my friend specifically doesn't want a really awesome computer. Just one that can sustain SC2 and DotA 2. Also, he's on a very tight budget so he needs a lot of stuff that must total to $1000 or less. Complaints were mostly about needlessly-expensive parts, parts that were straight-up worse than cheaper alternatives. We try to cater to needs and then budgets, so we don't pick on budgets that are too small unless it's not realistic to fit the needs. Actually, you can get a very good computer for gaming for well under $1000. | ||
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37064 Posts
On January 14 2013 14:57 Myrmidon wrote: While we're on the topic of prebuilts... Anybody know anything about AVADirect? They have systems reviewed sometimes on AnandTech, got a few with SPCR cert. Resellerratings (for what little that's worth): http://www.resellerratings.com/store/AVA_Direct http://www.resellerratings.com/store/CyberPower http://www.resellerratings.com/store/iBUYPOWER Prices for the configurators are not high like a high-end boutique like Puget, Falcon Northwest, etc., in line with the budget guys (though of course worse than building yourself): http://www.avadirect.com/desktop-pc-configurator.asp?PRID=24473 A lot of options are listed. Reasonable power supplies like Corsair CX500 V2, Seasonic G Series 360W, and of course the expensive stuff; rather than TX650 V2 being the cheapest non-mystery brand. Lots of case options, some cheap like Zalman Z9 and the usual suspects on up from there from Antec / BitFenix / Fractal Design / etc. Cheap B75 motherboards, more expensive options too. Decently-wide SSD selection. Trap or no? Complaints were mostly about needlessly-expensive parts, parts that were straight-up worse than cheaper alternatives. We try to cater to needs and then budgets, so we don't pick on budgets that are too small unless it's not realistic to fit the needs. Actually, you can get a very good computer for gaming for well under $1000. So if it's not too much trouble, could I ask that you guys pick out better parts at cheaper prices for him then?  EDIT: Oh and he just told me, he wants to be able to stream at a decent rate as well. | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On January 14 2013 15:03 Seeker wrote: So if it's not too much trouble, could I ask that you guys pick out better parts at cheaper prices for him then? EDIT: Oh and he just told me, he wants to be able to stream at a decent rate as well. Overclocking or not? It is a boon to streaming starcraft, but doesn't matter for much else. | ||
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37064 Posts
On January 14 2013 15:09 Rollin wrote: Overclocking or not? It is a boon to streaming starcraft, but doesn't matter for much else. I don't understand the question  | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
Starcraft II and DotA 2 are both dated games which doesn't require a ~$250 card like the 7870 and GTX 660 to run smoothly on ultra at 1080p. A GTX 650 Ti for ~$150 or a Radeon HD7850 1GB for $170 is more than capable of maxing out both games. 2x8gb is a waste for just a gaming configuration, get 2x4gb. I listed alternatives for everything except the motherboard. You can just get any ~$120 board and add a Xigmatek Gaia for $20 for overclocking purposes. Since he'll play two outdated games, SLI won't be necessary so get the Rosewill Capstone 450. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On January 14 2013 07:50 Myrmidon wrote: The problem is the complete lack of consistency in results. Does this really need to be spelled out? If you can't interpret results like these (edit: I mean, figure out that they might be inaccurate, at least if you have some background knowledge about how the Intel processors relate to one another, which I wouldn't expect of someone who doesn't follow these things), then you need to seriously develop some critical thinking skills. Then only tested gaming+streaming on one game, where results are hugely in question. Summary: + Show Spoiler [results] + FX-8350 - Vishera 4 modules (two integer cores each), 4.0-4.2 GHz, 8MB L3 **Crysis Warhead xsplit** 1080p - 26.44 900p - 39.28 720p - 48.28 -Crysis Warhead- 1440p - 26.772 1080p - 35.64 i5-3570k - Ivy Bridge 4 cores, no HT, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 6MB L3 **Crysis Warhead xsplit** 1080p - 24.920 1600p - 31.040 720p - 37.120 -Crysis Warhead- 1440p - 18.720 1080p - 26.840 i7-3770k - Ivy Bridge 4 cores, HT, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8MB L3 -Crysis Warhead- 1440p - 23.880 1080p - 38.440 i7-3820 - Sandy Bridge-E 4 cores, HT, 3.6-3.8 GHz, 10MB L3 **Crysis Warhead xsplit** 1080p - 26.00 900p - 36.6 720p - 42.88 -Crysis Warhead- 1080p - 26.840 Huge red flags: 3770 > 8350 at 1080p, yet 3770 < 8350 at 1440p. Uh, changing resolutions changes the workload on the GPU, not the CPU. 3770 > 3570 by huge margin without streaming, despite only 100 MHz / 2MB L3 / HT difference (and HT being irrelevant here). We all know 100 MHz won't make that kind of change, for processors running 3+ GHz, and if 2MB extra L3 and/or HT were somehow so important—they're not—then one would expect the 3820 to do a lot better despite being SB-E instead of IVB. Some other issues too. PS: who plays fps at those kinds of frame rates? I didn't bother looking more after seeing the above. But what were the streaming settings? You can always choose a faster encoding preset for slightly worse quality. i did find how they tested a bit suspect, but they ran so many tests, and he says he even did a few retests. I wouldnt take the review for "well obviously X cpu is X% better" but for a black and white better or worse, his method of testing seemed okay (running fraps on a few game runs, trying to be consistent). He ran quite a few tests, and a trend was apparent in multi-threaded games. increasing resolution can increase workload on the cpu. it's also possible his gpu wasn't powerful enough, and cause bottlenecking, especially at increasing the resolution, but i would think that would create a larger strain on the cpu, not change the relative differences. I mean what, the fx chip is better if you got a weaker gpu, and the intel better if you got a stronger gpu? that would be odd. increased cache size can make a large difference in some games, larger than 200mhz in some games. not saying that these games are like that, but it can be important. HT can be important, i believe bf3 was patched to appreciate it. i dont think it was the perfect benchmarks, for sure, but as far as i've seen the video and what they explained, i didn't see anything immediately suspect. It just raises questions, I mean maybe the question is "did he do the benches right" and the answer is "no", but it still does raise questions. As you point out though, a lot of games are gpu bound so the fx is going to do better in streaming, but it isn't going to be a point where the intel chip is not strong enough to do a damn good job still, and the intel chip will still game better. and yea, as you say, in cpu bound games (which werent tested), streaming will be better on the intel than fx because especially in those conditions, in-game performance is more important than h264 performance, since capture is the real bottleneck. They did use an amd GPU, think that may skew the results a bit in favor of the AMD chips? | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Trine 2 1080p: 8350 - 58 fps 3570 - 38.8 fps 3770 - 47.28 fps 3820 - 31.96 fps When some things are off by dozens of percentage points, is the data really worth looking through? I mean, if you can figure out what's horribly awry, then that's good, but there's no basis for discussion here. It's not like even figuring out what's wrong would give us the "correct" results. May as well bring up the topic you want to discuss and ignore this debacle completely. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
There are many capture methods for use with Xsplit (screen region, capturing a specific window/process), gamesource, dxtory etc, and there is a MASSIVE change in capture performance with at least some methods depending on the resolution and framerate you have Xsplit set to, capture method, resolution/fps and encoding settings are not even mentioned. As i said to Hellgreen i'd really like a test like this repeated on a gtx660ti-680 system with detailed benchmarking and graphed minimum and average FPS for SC2 on low settings with multiple capture methods, resolution/fps, and no capture at all With it being common knowledge that 3570k wrecks the 8350 in any CPU bound low-threaded game, there must be a miracle happening somewhere for there to be such a performance cliff on the wrong side | ||
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grockey
United States51 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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grockey
United States51 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Mushkin 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600MHz - total $263 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1174443 AsRock Z75 Pro3 - $85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157304 Xigmatek Gaia - $21 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233082 Asus GTX 660 - $230 (or whatever you prefer; this is definitely way overkill for SC2 and DOTA2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121660 Samsung (errr, Seagate?) Spinpoint F3 1TB - $65 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185 LG CD / DVD burner - $17 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136259 Rosewill Capstone 450W - $60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 Corsair Carbide 200R - $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139018 | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
My brain hurts. | ||
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