Poll: Steelseries Kinzu or Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0?
Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 (558)
55%
Steelseries Kinzu (454)
45%
1012 total votes
Your vote: Steelseries Kinzu or Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0?
(Vote): Steelseries Kinzu (Vote): Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0
I'm planning to upgrade my old cheapo wireless mouse for the Starcraft 2 launch. I must say I've grown quite accustomed to its small size, light weight and liberating lack of cord but hell, if a gaming-grade mouse can help me improve my control...
My research so far has revealed contradicting evidence. Some people argue that you just have to play with what you like, and that high-dpi hardware is only truly useful in FPS games. Others swear by their high-tech mice. I'm on a limited budged so I probably won't be getting the brag gear Razer just announced, so I'm looking more for functionality. Some people recommended the salmosa or the microsoft intellimouse, but I haven't seen the final word on it.
I'm asking then TLers, in your infinite wisdom, is a gaming mouse a worthwhile investment and if so, what mouse gives you most bang for your buck?
EDIT: After a lot of great feedback, I've narrowed it down to the Steelseries Kinzu or the Intellimouse 3.0 Both have the similar price, reputation and the light, claw-grip ergonomics I prefer. Fight!
I have both a Razer Lachesis and an Abyssus, and they're both fine, but they're definitely not made for RTS, just get a simple optical no nonsense mouse like all the pros use, preferably one that slides well and you're in great shape.
Better mice are important for FPSes because skipping pixels is a difference between hits and misses sometimes, and most top FPS players have really low sensitivity for precision and therefore make very fast, big strokes of a mouse -- this highlights processing errors of inferior mice.
This is less of an issue with RTS as there's typically no delay in reclicking something for effectiveness sake, and precision clicking is static (no difference in weapons, distances, target sizes and such). This means that whatever you are most comfortable with and isn't such a piece of crap as to be unusable in game is what's right. Find something that'll fit your specifics of lightweight/small size.
Changing mice will not improve your control noticeably. Chances are it'll start off worse until you get used to it. The only real reason to change what you're comfortable with is if you can tell the mouse you're using has problems that get in the way of functionality. IF you can't then a new mouse will only be placebo.
On June 16 2010 19:12 bubusls wrote: I have both a Razer Lachesis and an Abyssus, and they're both fine, but they're definitely not made for RTS, just get a simple optical no nonsense mouse like all the pros use, preferably one that slides well and you're in great shape.
Care to refer to a specific model? I've heard a lot of people talk about Microsoft basic mice but I'm not sure which model they are talking about.
I think you'd do best to just try some mice in the store if that's at all possible. Cause every hand is different and what some ppl like might not be what you like.
For instance many people like the bigger broader mice like the logitec MX1000 (only one i can remember, i know it's wireless and that sucks :p). But me personally I can only play with slender mice like my Razer Lachesis.
On June 16 2010 19:12 bubusls wrote: I have both a Razer Lachesis and an Abyssus, and they're both fine, but they're definitely not made for RTS, just get a simple optical no nonsense mouse like all the pros use, preferably one that slides well and you're in great shape.
Care to refer to a specific model? I've heard a lot of people talk about Microsoft basic mice but I'm not sure which model they are talking about.
Yeah, IntelliMouse Explorer is basically the mouse for gaming if you don't want to get fancy. Mine died after 7 years of gaming, then I got Logitech MX518, which is way heavier even without any weights inside, but it's pretty solid for both FPS and RTS. I still think that most of the progaming gear is way overpriced for marginal performance increase.
Pretty much any mouse will do for an RTS. Most gaming mice have re-mappable buttons, so you can set up more convenient hotkeys. Some have cheaty macro options, but you shouldn't rely on those. I use a Logitech MX518, which is a pretty cheap optical mouse with 1800 DPI resolution and 8 buttons (5 of them are really convenient, three are tiny, but still reachable). I have also owned a Razer Copperhead, but it has a short in the (relatively thin) wire, and it feels a little more fragile in general. Razers seem to be more cheaply made than Logitechs, but that could just be the Copperhead, which is no longer produced. I've heard SteelSeries is making some cool mice now, but I've never seen one in person.
I'd recommend getting a Logitech G500. It's a solid laser mouse with agjustable weight, a bunch of convenient buttons, decent software (macros, etc.), a nifty scroll-wheel that alternates between clicky and clickless, and it's the latest iteration of many good logitech mice. Wired, of course.
and if you like the MS Intellimouse shape but want something more fancy, try the Steelseries Xai. the Razer Deathadder is also a great mouse imho along with the razer imperator. Used em all and love em all. Cant even decide which to take as standard, tho i tendered to the xai
On June 16 2010 19:36 gillon wrote: I hardly believe it's superior to the G5 in anyway. I'd like to see those test results and a writeup of them.
My test was: lower sensitivity in windows to minimum, move the mouse left and right as fast as I could. G5 skipped quite horribly, intellimouse was fine. Maybe I just got a dodgy g5, but I never really felt it was more accurate or better at all, and it's not like it's just because I wasn't used to it, I used it for over a year before switching back.
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
A lot of the pro CS 1.6 kids use the intellimouse. I've used the g5 until it broke on me and then I'm using a razer deathadder now. Going to a corded mouse is a very good choice for gaming. I'll never trust wireless shit.
Mostly its about finding something you're comfortable with and finding a solid sensitivity that fits well with your play style. That's all it comes down to and people will argue that their $160 mouse made them a better person but it's mostly their mind making excuses for paying so much.
Edit: oh yeah if you're a wow kid and you have 1000billion macros a mouse with a ton of buttons is nice...
What shoes are best for soccer? (see how stupid that is?)
dude, at least ask: what mouse do you have and what can you say about it. there is no _best_ gaming mouse.
I myself have a steelseries xai and i am very pleased with it.(its a standard shaped mouse and it fits my hand) i got a special deal for the xai, but you dont need the extra buttons so you could go for the kinzu (same but without extra buttons)
Any cheap logitech mouse will do the trick. I use this :
Logitech RX250, works like a charm, no useless shit, 1000 dpi and costs 10$, before that I used the loved Mini Optical. Logitech is the way to go, you absolutely DO NOT need a Razer for RTS. Trust me and you will save money.
I tried using ms intellimouse 3.0, razor diamondback, logitech g5, a4tech x7 after my intellimouse 1.1 broke, none could match it so i went back to my good old low-tech intellimouse 1.1, all those fancy gaming mice just cant beat a solid lightweight mouse. But for me the most important thing about a mouse is its weight, without losing precision ofc.
razer abyssus is probably the best shaped razer out there, the other razer mice are just god awful in shape and often have shitty material - for instance they use slippery, shiny plastic where you hold your mouse with your thumb and your pinky on the other side of the mouse. Thats just hilarious to me and unusable to anyone who tends to have somewhat sweaty hands during action packed games. You can't quite grab it as good as if it where a more rubberish material used i.e. on the kinzu.
The steelseries kinzu has some serious issues with its sensor though, it skips a bunch of pixels (few dozens at once every few minutes or so) at 1600dpi and it's probably unfixable according to steelseries insiders. Other than that, shape and material are better than everything I have encoutered so far, no gay useless sidebuttons like the mini optical logitech - just brilliant.
Unfortunately the intelli 3.0 has just 400 dpi, thus unable to cope with a 2560*1600 screen. Once they relaunch this mouse yet again with a new sensor, I'll have to stick to something else.
I get the impression that most RTS players move their mice with their fingertips (claw-grip) and thus prefer a small and light mouse. Some models:
Steelseries Kinzu (Xai, but expensive and too many features for a RTS) Razer Salmosa Logitech G1, G3, G9x (see Xai) Microsoft WMO1.1/ IO1.1
A palm-grip mouse works as well ofc, but considering your not playing SC2 with a low sensitivity like you might a FPS, a claw-grip style should provide more accuracy. This however, requires your mouse to be as light as possible. IE the Kinzu weighs 70gr only.
A while ago when i needed a mouse to play FPS at high level, i compiled a lot of info about many mice, and what other people were saying, what pros used etc, and these 3 standed out as the best built, more comfortable, precise, and better quality for price.
Razer Death Adder
Logitech MX518
Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (aka ie 3.0)
I have the MX518 for about 4 years and i love it to death, but any of those is equally very good. It's just a matter of preference. No need to pay lots of money for a top mouse.
Some also good mice are the Diamondback, the Copperhead and the G5.
On June 16 2010 19:57 Chi wrote: I tried using ms intellimouse 3.0, razor diamondback, logitech g5, a4tech x7 after my intellimouse 1.1 broke, none could match it so i went back to my good old low-tech intellimouse 1.1, all those fancy gaming mice just cant beat a solid lightweight mouse. But for me the most important thing about a mouse is its weight, without losing precision ofc.
pure preference. i need a kinda big and not too light mouse.
havent tested much different mice but i still use my 5 year old mx500 and love it.
remember having the 1st generation intellimouse. was good too but it broke after only a year or something.
most old razer models(dunno about the new ones) where way too small for me (im almost 190cm. so not the smallest hands) and i dont like symmetric designs in general.
On June 16 2010 20:11 nyshak wrote: I get the impression that most RTS players move their mice with their fingertips (claw-grip) and thus prefer a small and light mouse. Some models:
Steelseries Kinzu (Xai, but expensive and too many features for a RTS) Razer Salmosa Logitech G1, G3, G9x (see Xai) Microsoft WMO1.1/ IO1.1
A palm-grip mouse works as well ofc, but considering your not playing SC2 with a low sensitivity like you might a FPS, a claw-grip style should provide more accuracy. This however, requires your mouse to be as light as possible. IE the Kinzu weighs 70gr only.
mmhh i do the "claw" but prefer somewhat heavy and "hand fitting" mice.
I can't believe there isn't more love for the mx518 I love this mouse. The shape is perfect and if you have big hands like me its easier to control then smaller mice and puts less strain on the wrist.
I can recommend the Imperator razer mouse. Very comfortable and just good looking. It saves your mouse speed in a chip, so when you take your mouse to a different computer you dont have to reconfigure.
its never about the mouse. just get something that your comfortable with. i had lots of different mouses, and it comes down to just practicing with it. then you will just become one with it really and any other mouse will just feel wierd.
Look at Nal_Ra playing with a ball mouse (does he still do that, there was some thing about mice on oldboy, but I can't remember?) and think about if you really need any fancy mouse .
I myself use a G9, had an MX500 before that for a couple of years. Reliable mice, the MX500 still works, although left click strikes sometime because dirt got under it. The G9 is especially great for my ultra high sensity preference.
Any right-hand specific mice you guys would recommend I have the intellimouse explorer, but it's got the sweat and blood of 10,000 games of StarCraft, endless games of CounterStrike, and some HoN ingrained in its very plastic.
On June 16 2010 20:16 Duelist wrote: A while ago when i needed a mouse to play FPS at high level, i compiled a lot of info about many mice, and what other people were saying, what pros used etc, and these 3 standed out as the best built, more comfortable, precise, and better quality for price.
Razer Death Adder
Logitech MX518
Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (aka ie 3.0)
I have the MX518 for about 4 years and i love it to death, but any of those is equally very good. It's just a matter of preference. No need to pay lots of money for a top mouse.
Some also good mice are the Diamondback, the Copperhead and the G5.
That third mouse is the Intellimouse 1.1a; it's not the Intellimouse 3.0.
If you use around 1024x768, you will probably want to stick to around 800DPI for proper accuracy. For high screen resolution, it's best to find a mouse that allows small steps of DPI, but you still want to avoid 1600DPI unless you are running 1920x1080+ resolution. Regardless, form factor should be the most important point in your mouse selection. RTS games (SC especially) favor claw grip, which leads small mice to be rather popular - such as the Krait/Salmosa/Logitech Mini. Since RTS games are played at high sens, the above mouse chart is little use, since 99% of mice have perfect control and malfunction speeds FAR above anything you will ever reach.
Unless you intend to pretty much dedicate yourself to the game, you might as well just use any mouse. Go with what is comfortable first, and if it's got the extra oomph you need, more power to you.
edit: Oh, and in my personal opinion, the Krait and Salmosa are amazing mice for any game. The Krait has somewhat annoying rubber sides that will rub down over the years (but perfectly fine for the first year or so), and the Salmosa might have a squeaky mouse1 that will go away over time.
Nice, that's the site i was looking for to post here. Great find, good tests there, definitely worth a look, and it shows why DPI higher than 400 is hardly ever needed.
The razer copperhead is what I am using it's pretty much the same as the diamondback and the krait and it feels perfect for me at least so I strongly recommend it if ur willing to spend a bit on a mouse however the Microsoft intellimouse is just great for the price that u pay
There are/were two different versions of the Logitech mx518. I suggest the one that has the two large "glidepads" on the bottom. (I've had both that, and the one with 5 little pads)
My favorite gaming mouse thus far for a variety of game types.
On June 16 2010 20:28 h3r1n6 wrote: Look at Nal_Ra playing with a ball mouse (does he still do that, there was some thing about mice on oldboy, but I can't remember?) and think about if you really need any fancy mouse .
This is about sc2 not bw. BW has such low resolution that almost every mouse is good and accurate there. Sc2 on the other hand is more demanding. (imo)
I play with Razer Krait (both bw and sc2 + some fps games and a lil bit of wow arena) and it has never failed me yet excluding some double clicking fails Its perfect for the claw grip too.
I've been using a G5 for 2-3 years now and have had 0 complaints about it. It's great because you can set it to throttle between different mouse speeds, which makes it very handy to switch between various games.
Logitech MX 518 for the simple reason that out of all of the gaming mice I've tried, it feels the best in my hand.
I've tried pretty much every gaming mouse under 200 dollars. If you really care, just go to your local Fry's or whatever electronic store with a good return policy and buy/return mice until you find your favorite.
I have to buy a new mouse just about every year i wear them out so fast, one of the pads on my G5 is partially worn away. I've gone through 2 MX 518's previously.
I use the Logitech MX1100. It depends on preference, it's a pretty heavy mouse compared to most but I have huge hands and it's a very comfortable fit. Just go with whatever is most comfortable for you to use I'd say, since the most important 2 buttons are left and right click anyways, any possible keybinds aside.
edit: But seriously, I use Microsoft Intellimouse, by far the best mouse I've ever used, and dirt cheap
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
I hardly believe it's superior to the G5 in anyway. I'd like to see those test results and a writeup of them.
G5 and the first generation of laser mice (at least, newer ones have problems but not that severe (never ones have some accel problems but don't skip)) are actually pretty bad, they skip out at fast movements (fast movements not being that fast at all actually).
More prevailent at fps games but way superior in that regard no contest as the 1.1 doesn't actually skip until much later (it has negative accel but that is tolerable most of the time unlike skipping which obviously is never).
It's also a smaller shape, ?! imo a quality especially in rts games since one mostly uses ones fingers for navigating.
If you wan't something "solid" the wmo, ie1.1/3.0 and mx 300/500/510/518 are good bets, solid workhorses as one might say. In the end the brand doesn't matter if the mouse performs with precision (you don't need 2k dpi, you probably don't even need 200) doesn't skip, has consistent movement (at least up to a certain point you don't reach). The G5 may well do this since you hardly make it skip playing rts but if you ever move towards fps I hope you use high sens.
Just get something with a good shape and a non crap sensor.
Use whatever feels comfortable. I use a logitec mini, but I also have a salmosa... I'm used to both so it doesn't bother me. Mice won't make you better if they are uncomfortable, try to get something that has the general shape of your current mouse, small and easy to palm/grip.
I was using a mx518. However, I was getting a lot of hand/wrist stress while playing SC2 so I switched to a Razer Absyssus (basically the new salmosa they are the same size and weigh the same). I really happy with the switch. I can definitely notice difference in weight and my hand/wrist get tired slower. However, I don't think my game play increased at all after switching mice so if that is the only reason for switching I don't think it is worth it.
One more thing to note. I hate the fact that the light on the abyssus stays on at all times(even when the computer is shut down) I wish i could go in there and just break it.
On June 16 2010 21:40 Dehner wrote: I use the Logitech MX1100. It depends on preference, it's a pretty heavy mouse compared to most but I have huge hands and it's a very comfortable fit. Just go with whatever is most comfortable for you to use I'd say, since the most important 2 buttons are left and right click anyways, any possible keybinds aside.
I use the same mouse and agree with this assessment, large, heavier mouse with high dpi, very accurate.
incidentally, as for laser mice i'm using the steelseries xai at the moment.
not only is it one of the most comfortable mice to hold in your hand, but i can fling it like a lord and there hasn't been any skipping issues or weird responses yet.
still gonna wait and see if it behaves the same way after a month or two though.
If you play low sensitivity, an optical mouse will do just perfect. I personally love the microsoft intellimouse 3.0. It is the best optical mouse I have ever used and I used a lot.
In RTS games high sensitivity is very popular and I believe this is where a good laser mouse is very useful. I have personally switched from low sens intellimouse 3.0 to high sens steelseries xai and I really love it. But if I switched back to a FPS, I would switch to low sens with my intellimouse 3.0.
On June 16 2010 19:12 bubusls wrote: I have both a Razer Lachesis and an Abyssus, and they're both fine, but they're definitely not made for RTS, just get a simple optical no nonsense mouse like all the pros use, preferably one that slides well and you're in great shape.
I'm curious why you think the Lachesis isn't good for RTS. I use it and think it works fine. What problems do you have with it?
was planning on buying a salmosa since its only 50g, but decided that the shape is not suited for claw. now i have a kinzu, it is 70g but i quite like it. very good design imo
On June 16 2010 22:26 architekt wrote: was planning on buying a salmosa since its only 50g, but decided that the shape is not suited for claw. now i have a kinzu, it is 70g but i quite like it. very good design imo
I recommend the Razer Salmosa. I was skeptical that a £20 "gaming" mouse was going to be much of an improvement than the shitty 1000 button, unbranded optical bullshit I had beforehand, but I felt a major difference. So yeah, I recommend a Salmosa, but a lot of mice will probably fill a similar role.
Also, probably an idea to get a good mousepad first, if you don't already. Most of the cheap mousepads have the texture of sand paper and a "grain" so your movement isn't even across it from all sides. Again, I'm using a Razer "gol"-something, which is good. It was cheap too, but, again, a lot of different mousepads will fill a similar role.
Sorry to sound like a Razer fanboy.(Their keyboards suck.)
i recommend you the razer salmosa, it's not very expensive and by FAR the best mouse i have ever used. I own mine since like 2 years and it's still as good as the day i bought it.
Been using the Intellimouse for over 7 years now. It's the best mouse ever made, hands down. The only thing it doesn't have is macros, and those are really just a half step below hacking to begin with, so I don't mind living without them.
No joke, that was the mouse I had when I started playing SC:BW. It was my sister's birthday present that she never used. Obviously I could micro so easily with this mouse (yeah right)
On topic though, I think any mouse that feels comfortable is good enough for SC2. It doesn't need to have 200 buttons, extra random features or look like it's going to take off, just basic stuff will do. I'm currently using a simple Logitech mouse that cost like €10.
Microsoft Intelli 3.0 - Best gaming mouse of all time.
light weight, good feel, nice comfortable design, I believe it's limited to 1000mhz although I'm not too sure. However 1000mhz on a mouse should be wayyy sufficient for playing basically any rts.
Maybe it has a 0,01% difference when playing FPS, idk.
Still, this mouse isn't being made anymore, so another intelli might be the answer.
If you're more of a logitech person, I'd again go for one of the ancient warriors, the Mx510. This one has also gone out of production(which is why I bought 5 off of eBay couple years ago lol). In the case you can't find it, you could always go for the newer Mx518, which I personally think is way less of a gaming mouse than the Mx510, but ;P
Or just go for the newer age mice, but idk, I find most of them include this obnoxious software and drivers for it to work(fucking razor software is just cheap and ugly and messes up everything for a gamer), so I personally steer clear of those.
I use a logitech G5 and it's probably my favorite all-around mouse I've ever used. There is definitely room for improvement, but i like it. I don't use any of the weights, as I like my mouse to be light.
I can also testify to the fact that if you're looking for something affordable, the Intellimouse Explorer is nice. Having said that, I stopped using them because I had two stop working in the course of about 3 years. What happened to both is that the cord started to come loose where it connects to the circuit board in the mouse... no idea if it's just the way I use the mouse (I was playing a lot of Quake 3 at the time) or what.
I have a Razer Mamba. The hotswap between Wireless and Wired is excellent, especially if you lose power mid game. Best mouse so far. Fits my big hand well.
don't get a mouse for the game, get the mouse for the coolness of having a nice mouse ;D since honestly any mouse with basic functionality gets the job done fine.
I love my wheel mouse optical. I've tested quite a few Logitech mice, I own 3 razers and have fiddled with some Steel Series and other mice. Nothing fits me as well as the WMO. I've put way too much money into 'gaming' equipment. Still do now and then just to try things out but WMO + Mouse Bungee on a Qck is <3 for me.
The Razer krait is what I use / prefer, I have a salmosa aswell, but the Krait has a nice feel, it's kinda small and clicks like a dream.. The US Razer Salmosa can break (no a serious break) and it makes an annoying squeek..kinda puts me in a bad mood
Throwing in another vote for the Microsoft Intellimouse. I can't stand most gaming mice and their "ergonomic" features that only ever work for people with very specific hands.
You should find whatever is most comfortable. You need something you can hold for hours at a time, and you shouldn't sacrifice comfort for a few petty DPI.
Use what is comfortable in your hand. Your sensitivity will never be low enough in Starcraft 2 to cause skipping from moving your mouse VERY fast over a long distance. Just use what is comfortable imho. I've used various logitechs and Microsoft mice and in the end, my preferences didn't come down to "mouse technology" or anything like that. It came down to the size, weight and feel of the mouse. In the end I bulk ordered a bunch of Logitech LX3 mice because it just fits my hand well and is the perfect weight for me.
Was using a Logitech G3 for the longest time, but just recently upgraded to a Razer Abyssus. [Obviously] haven't had chance to test it out in SC2 but so far it feels amazing and I can't wait till I can play SC2 with it.
On June 16 2010 22:07 Konsume wrote: I've been using this mouse alot... and like it... tho i'm a thumb player!
I had been using Logitec M-BZ96C; it was horrible:
I purchased the G9x about 2 weeks ago and am very happy with it. The Logitec G9x so far has been very accurate and I no longer feel like I am struggling to select the units I want. The mouse has a flare where your thumb sits that actually keeps it from contacting the mouse pad; it is an odd feature but something that I really enjoy.
I do think I'd prefer a slightly narrower mouse, but I do like the height of it. For me, most Logitec mice feel like they are taking up too much of my hand, and I prefer to only touch the mouse with my finger tips. I have medium to large hands.
But, at $100 this is not a cheap mouse. I managed to get mine for $80 so I didn't feel too bad about it
i disagree with the issue, that high (or higher) dpi is not needed. Customizing DPI and max. DPI is important in term of mousefeeling/handling like the mouse shape. However mouse shape (and weight) is in general the most individual aspect which cant be recommend, you have to try it out. As an RTS gamer you dont care about a lot of buttons and you dont want/have to switch sensitivity between games like shooter gamer.
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
What kinds of tests were those? If you actually used software to check the accuracy, I'd love to hear about it. I have a G5 and a black intellimouse 1.1A and have felt similarly. Obviously the G5 has a higher dpi than the intellimouse, but isn't accuracy different from dpi?
I prefer the G5 for RTS still because that's what I'm used to, but I don't have enough experience to definitively say that it's the best mouse for Starcraft 2. If it isn't, the intellimouse 1.1A is a very very close second, although I've always been curious about the notorious logitech optical mini.
On June 16 2010 22:07 Konsume wrote: I've been using this mouse alot... and like it... tho i'm a thumb player!
I had been using Logitec M-BZ96C; it was horrible:
I purchased the G9x about 2 weeks ago and am very happy with it. The Logitec G9x so far has been very accurate and I no longer feel like I am struggling to select the units I want. The mouse has a flare where your thumb sits that actually keeps it from contacting the mouse pad; it is an odd feature but something that I really enjoy.
I do think I'd prefer a slightly narrower mouse, but I do like the height of it. For me, most Logitec mice feel like they are taking up too much of my hand, and I prefer to only touch the mouse with my finger tips. I have medium to large hands.
But, at $100 this is not a cheap mouse. I managed to get mine for $80 so I didn't feel too bad about it
Or you could do what I did.
Or you could do what I did.
1. Zero screws! - yes no screws at all why you need them when there is superglue 2. Removed metallic scroll wheel 3. Got rid of Braided cable (they exert force while you are doing 360! and of course add unneeded weight) 4. Removed all buttons and Dpi switches (Except for mouse button 1 & 2) 5. removed all unnecessary parts from inside (ie plastic parts)
I just got a G500, I love the mouse wheel function button! Hit it and it will go from super smooth rotation to click by click, great for good old web browsing! I've yet to max it to its 5700dpi limit, but no question the most responsive sensitive mouse I've ever owned.
Before this I used a G5, I liked that mouse a lot too! Great shape, great mice.
On June 17 2010 02:44 Gunman_csz wrote: Or you could do what I did.
Or you could do what I did.
1. Zero screws! - yes no screws at all why you need them when there is superglue 2. Removed metallic scroll wheel 3. Got rid of Braided cable (they exert force while you are doing 360! and of course add unneeded weight) 4. Removed all buttons and Dpi switches (Except for mouse button 1 & 2) 5. removed all unnecessary parts from inside (ie plastic parts)
you are one crazy mofo!
no seriously you're god damn crazy!
I bought an armadillo 2.0 to deal with the cord but besides that... I love the way your thumb is always supported when using the proper cover and all this plastic and buttons removing is.... wierd!!
It's all about personal preference. I personally use a Razer Deathadder for SC2 as well as HoN and TF2. It's a perfect fit for my hand and is comfortable as can be. You may hate it though so try out other people's mice if you can before you drop money on your own.
(I'm still gonna recommend this though if you are right handed)
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
A lot of the pro CS 1.6 kids use the intellimouse. I've used the g5 until it broke on me and then I'm using a razer deathadder now. Going to a corded mouse is a very good choice for gaming. I'll never trust wireless shit.
Mostly its about finding something you're comfortable with and finding a solid sensitivity that fits well with your play style. That's all it comes down to and people will argue that their $160 mouse made them a better person but it's mostly their mind making excuses for paying so much.
Edit: oh yeah if you're a wow kid and you have 1000billion macros a mouse with a ton of buttons is nice...
The "CS 1.6 kids" stick with the intellimouse because 1.6 runs on very few pixels, thus a DPi of 50 feels like 500 (exaggerated). Also the intelli3.0 actually has better mouseacceleration (not windows acc.) and, of course, most players are used to the shape of the intelli which arguably might be the most comfortable shape (razer bought it and made several mice with similar shape, death adder for example).
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
A lot of the pro CS 1.6 kids use the intellimouse. I've used the g5 until it broke on me and then I'm using a razer deathadder now. Going to a corded mouse is a very good choice for gaming. I'll never trust wireless shit.
Mostly its about finding something you're comfortable with and finding a solid sensitivity that fits well with your play style. That's all it comes down to and people will argue that their $160 mouse made them a better person but it's mostly their mind making excuses for paying so much.
Edit: oh yeah if you're a wow kid and you have 1000billion macros a mouse with a ton of buttons is nice...
The "CS 1.6 kids" stick with the intellimouse because 1.6 runs on very few pixels, thus a DPi of 50 feels like 500 (exaggerated). Also the intelli3.0 actually has better mouseacceleration (not windows acc.) and, of course, most players are used to the shape of the intelli which arguably might be the most comfortable shape (razer bought it and made several mice with similar shape, death adder for example).
DERP DERP DERP.... you obviously have no clue about what you are talking about... the mouse you are talking about is 400dpi ... and there is no 'mouse acceleration'... you DONT want acceleration to be precise... read that and you might stop saying random false stuff: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679
edit: but those benchmark are not really usefull for RTS since RTS are not played with low sensitivity and you wont attain the mouvement speed you would with low sens in FPS, thats why you can use cheap logitech mouses even tho they have a low failure speed.
and to continue about great RTS mouse, i use a razer Salmosa and it is one of the best RTS mouse ive used. The only thing i would like to change... is to be able to select something else than 800 or 1800 dpi, something like 1200 would be perfect.
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
A lot of the pro CS 1.6 kids use the intellimouse. I've used the g5 until it broke on me and then I'm using a razer deathadder now. Going to a corded mouse is a very good choice for gaming. I'll never trust wireless shit.
Mostly its about finding something you're comfortable with and finding a solid sensitivity that fits well with your play style. That's all it comes down to and people will argue that their $160 mouse made them a better person but it's mostly their mind making excuses for paying so much.
Edit: oh yeah if you're a wow kid and you have 1000billion macros a mouse with a ton of buttons is nice...
The "CS 1.6 kids" stick with the intellimouse because 1.6 runs on very few pixels, thus a DPi of 50 feels like 500 (exaggerated). Also the intelli3.0 actually has better mouseacceleration (not windows acc.) and, of course, most players are used to the shape of the intelli which arguably might be the most comfortable shape (razer bought it and made several mice with similar shape, death adder for example).
DERP DERP DERP.... you obviously have no clue about what you are talking about... the mouse you are talking about is 400dpi ... and there is no 'mouse acceleration'... you DONT want acceleration to be precise... read that and you might stop saying random false stuff: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679
I've been using the Logitech G9 for a year now. I macroed the buttons on the side for T: Mule, Scan P: Chrono, Probe Z: spawn larva, cycle through hatcheries.
On June 17 2010 03:52 Snowfield wrote: Im using the old G9, planning to buy a Steelseries XAI, as i like to look of it, anyone got that / share experiences with it?
Awesome for FPS, the shape weight and balance is damn near perfect IMO. Only reason I go with the IME 3.0 is because the IME 3.0 is like 3x cheaper, but I do like the Xai very much.
MX518 for me. DPI = sensitivity. There is no such thing as skipping pixels, they are all myths. If a mouse is skipping pixels it's defective or you need to reinstall drivers.
Edit: Find a comfortable mouse to use and buy it, nothing else really matters.
On June 17 2010 02:52 Backpack wrote: It's all about personal preference. I personally use a Razer Deathadder for SC2 as well as HoN and TF2. It's a perfect fit for my hand and is comfortable as can be. You may hate it though so try out other people's mice if you can before you drop money on your own.
(I'm still gonna recommend this though if you are right handed)
This is what I use.
Works great with a good mousepad.
Doesn't skip a frame, works perfect on both high and low DPI settings.
I'm still using my Logitech Mini Optical from my BW years, it hasn't broken yet and I think amazon still sells them. It's lightweight, but it is outdated for it's price. When I try to draw a straight line on MS paint it looks like a flight of stairs.
I don't have the biggest hands so having more than 6 control groups is a bit of an issue, and I'd like to be able to exclusively use my mouse for unit selection. I'm not into having macros, just evening out the use of my hands. Only issue I see is that if I ever got good enough to go to a live tourney (yeah right) I probably wouldn't be able to have a setup like that.
Personally I'd go with a steelseries XAI, but I currently have a razer lachesis and it works good for all games I play atm due to the many settings options.
On June 17 2010 05:25 fiesta wrote: What do you guys think about using one of these?
I don't have the biggest hands so having more than 6 control groups is a bit of an issue, and I'd like to be able to exclusively use my mouse for unit selection. I'm not into having macros, just evening out the use of my hands. Only issue I see is that if I ever got good enough to go to a live tourney (yeah right) I probably wouldn't be able to have a setup like that.
Not only is it a problem with tournys, but I find it best to get used to playing without fancy equipment because if something breaks you have to go order a new fancy mouse instead of just plugging in a crappy backup. You'll be so used to your fancy mouse that you won't be able to play at the same level using a keyboard.
I use a logitech G9x and I love it, but I am also an FPS freak so... yeah. You don't need an amazing mouse for SC, just something that is comfortable for you. Any mouse with like 2000dpi and a decently high polling rate is going to be sensitive enough and super accurate. (i love the G9's shape with the wide grip, it also slides really smoothly and you can customize the weight of the mouse, but I am pretty anal with regards to peripherals, additionally you can just replace the grips and feet when they wear out for like 10 bucks).
I have a Razer Abyssus and I like it. Before that I had an MX518 and I liked that, too. As long as you like the mouse you have, don't worry about losing a competitive edge due to equipment deficiency; it's all kinda the same and depends more on your comfort and familiarity than anything else.
I'm actively using the salmosa, which has on the fly sensitivity adjustment (in game), no prediction, and high DPI, however, i'm not so pleased with the shape of this mouse.
I think the SHAPE i like the most is the WMO 1.1a.. which also has no prediction. I'm actually considering switching back to this, but i'm not sure if i can live without on the fly sensitivity
The kinzu is similar in shape to the WMO, which is why i bought it, but the glide is terrible as the default skates are not teflon... This mouse actually made my wrist hurt after playing 2 games of sc2.
Downsides of the abysus and the Salmosa are mainly the shape, and the fact that on the fly sensitivity can not be bound to your keyboard, you MUST sacrifice a mouse button to use it. This hurts when you only have 3 buttons, and obviously mouse1 and mouse2 are used for gaming so i use mouse3 (pressing down the wheel) as my on the fly sensitivity button.
i called razer support regarding this and they gave a somewhat lame excuse as to why its like this, (they said their driver only interfaces/polls the mouse, so they cant look for keyboard input).
I'm actively using the salmosa, which has on the fly sensitivity adjustment (in game), no prediction, and high DPI, however, i'm not so pleased with the shape of this mouse.
I think the SHAPE i like the most is the WMO 1.1a.. which also has no prediction. I'm actually considering switching back to this, but i'm not sure if i can live without on the fly sensitivity
The kinzu is similar in shape to the WMO, which is why i bought it, but the glide is terrible as the default skates are not teflon... This mouse actually made my wrist hurt after playing 2 games of sc2.
I used a wireless Logitech MX1000 for a long time (4-5 years) but decided last week that it was time for an upgrade, especially since I started playing Starcraft.
The MX1000, while a trusty companion for many years (as long as your remember to recharge it on it's dock), just felt sluggish to me in Starcraft, especially since I was beginning to take the game fairly serious and overall the game is extremely competitive.
So after some research I decided to go with the Razer Imperator and a Razer Goliath Mouse Pad.
So far I love them both and I fee like they are a great compliment to each other. The mouse is basically future proof and is useable in a wide array of games with all the settings it has. From FPS to RTS to RPG.
All of mine break within 6 months or so (the click fuction on mouse 1 button usually) so I just buy intelli 3.0 and replace. I hate all Logitech mouses for their uncomfortable fit, Razer is overpriced and plastic, Steelseries have a few decent ones but breaks easily and are also extremely overpriced.
I'm actively using the salmosa, which has on the fly sensitivity adjustment (in game), no prediction, and high DPI, however, i'm not so pleased with the shape of this mouse.
I think the SHAPE i like the most is the WMO 1.1a.. which also has no prediction. I'm actually considering switching back to this, but i'm not sure if i can live without on the fly sensitivity
The kinzu is similar in shape to the WMO, which is why i bought it, but the glide is terrible as the default skates are not teflon... This mouse actually made my wrist hurt after playing 2 games of sc2.
When are you changing your sens may I ask?
Its something i need to work on i guess, but i find that depending on my grip (and yes this mouse is kinda small, so sometimes i tend to claw grip it and other times i tend to finger grip it a bit more properly), i might need to raise or lower the sens.
G5 user here and proud. I've played competitive FPS games for several years with it and its never let me down. I just love that hand shape. It perfectly fits my hand.
Here is a question though, should I get a mousepad? All these years, I just play on wood and never thought it would make a difference. So should I just get a mousepad?
The saitek GM3200 has been the most reliable mouse I have ever used. It's very comfortable to me as well, I have medium-largish hands.
I also use a Saitek Cyborg keyboard, getting rid of that, I don't advise you to buy that. It's too big, not all that comfortable, and it's innaccurate, I have had plenty of times where the S button didn't work, and I play zerg.
And I use the Razer Destructor for a mousepad, best mousepad I have ever had. I love that it's washable, it's not TOO huge but definitely not small, and it just feels so smooth to play on.
On June 16 2010 19:12 bubusls wrote: I have both a Razer Lachesis and an Abyssus, and they're both fine, but they're definitely not made for RTS, just get a simple optical no nonsense mouse like all the pros use, preferably one that slides well and you're in great shape.
Sorry but if an Abyssus isn't made for RTS, then what in the world is?
There are two parties in PC gaming, FPS and RTS. Both types of games have very different needs. Much of the information and debate that exists right now about what makes a mouse good for gaming is aimed squarely at FPS gaming.
In FPS, it's typical to use low cursor speed (lower DPI, lower sensitivity) and a very active mouse hand (moving in broad strokes often). However, in RTS, it's typical to use higher cursor speed (higher DPI, higher sensitivity) and more minimal hand motion (planting the wrist bone and never moving the arm is fairly typical).
One community (FPS) sacrifices "speed" and "mobility" for much better precision. The other community sacrifices pixel-perfect precision for better coverage of the screen. The reasons are mostly obvious.
However, sometimes RTS players think their mice are superior for every game. And sometimes FPS players think their mice are superior for every game. And the debates collide and become an unintelligible clusterfuck for anyone wondering what mouse they should get.
You are not going to be getting a 400 DPI mouse to play SC2 unless you play on 1024x768. You need to be able to cover the entire screen without ever moving your arm. So all the FPS players saying that "More DPI = better" is a myth are barking up the wrong tree here. But you don't need 5000 DPI either, you just need "enough" to comfortably cover the entire screen and provide you quick access to any area on the screen.
A lot of people are suggesting mice like the WMO and so on. I would advise you to avoid these if you can. In FPS, you generally palm the entire mouse in a semi-'rigid' fashion. Your fingers don't really curl and uncurl since you use your arm for 90% of the motion. But in RTS, you will often be controlling your mouse with only your fingertips (at certain areas on the extremities of the screen). So a very slick, sweat-unfriendly surface like the WMO is going to be a bad choice.
The Deathadder is a very popular mouse for two good reasons: FPS gamers like it and RTS gamers like it as well. FPS gamers like it because it is arguably the most comfortable palm-style mouse in existence and has tracking software/hardware that withstands very rapid hand motion (required for very low-sens players). RTS gamers like it because it is super-comfortable and has sublime tracking at higher DPI.
However, there are subjectively "better" choices in my opinion for RTS mice. The Deathadder has a lot of weight to it, and it's tiring to move it around using only the wrist/fingers. A lighter mouse would be better. I bought a Razer Abyssus specifically for RTS play. It's got the exact same tracking software/hardware as a Deathadder and is smaller and has good features like
1) No thumb buttons. 2) Excellent center of gravity (for controlling it with your fingertips). 3) Really great sweat-friendly surface. 4) 450/1800/3500 DPI switch so you can play BW with it as well.
Regardless of any arguments anyone has against my personal feelings, I hope you can see that RTS play differs significantly enough from FPS play in terms of mouse mechanics that you are looking for different perks. Just think logically about what you personally need to play RTS without thinking about your mouse hand. This will lead you to make a better decision than trusting others on the internet.
I can say that my Logitech Mini Optical works perfectly fine in starcraft 2. I haven't noticed a difference between the Razer Death Adder and my miniop so if you really don't care what mouse you get, I suggest a nice cheap one.
Any mouse that has this kind of shape. Small, light, low on the front and a little higher on the back.
The dpi depends on what resolution you are playing at, you don't want it too fast or too slow. Adjust it to something in between, get used to it and you're set. Those 'big' mouses are so fucking horrible for RTS games, I don't know why people suggest them.
Razer ones that are good (only because of the shape): Salmosa, Abyssus and Spectre. You obviously don't need an expensive mouse. Just keep the shape in mind and don't go nuts on DPI.
On June 17 2010 07:04 towerranger wrote: support razer, they support starcraft
well look for another company if you play on a mac for razer produces macmice which don't even know the middle button neither support it though.
unix mice had 3 buttons or later two buttons and a wheel left right and middle whereas middle can be emulated by pressing left and right at the same time for it was always used for adjusting things. well the razer deathadder MAC-Edition (!!!) just knows left and right. it was not a software problem either because i am one of the few fellas able to manage to find the drivers on their website (horrible site!) well the damn mouse driver then only works for one profile so the admin has to reinstall it again and the guest account also ... for it just stores the actual user prefs in the actual users account ... awful on a multiuser os what the heck did they think they were dealing with. try doing 3d modelling or playing simulations with such a mouse... back to my old logitech.
so sorry but i don't give razer any credit due that experience.
I've been using an MX510 until my cat bit of the cord.. =( Now I'm back to my even older heavy ass Logitech dual optical something something, and I can tell you this: What ever you buy, don't buy a heavy mouse! You will seriously hurt your wrist!
On June 17 2010 07:32 Qw4z1 wrote: I've been using an MX510 until my cat bit of the cord.. =( Now I'm back to my even older heavy ass Logitech dual optical something something, and I can tell you this: What ever you buy, don't buy a heavy mouse! You will seriously hurt your wrist!
cats love mice cords mine has broken atleast 2 mice, and 3 chargers for my phone
The dpi depends on what resolution you are playing at, you don't want it too fast or too slow. Adjust it to something in between, get used to it and you're set. Those 'big' mouses are so fucking horrible for RTS games, I don't know why people suggest them.
I completely agree.
Of course, everyone that feels comfortable with something will give their opinion, and to be frank, you can get used to pretty much everything (I played CS professionally with a ball mouse once upon a time). Having said that, smaller mice simply are better, if you get used to them. It will never be more precise using your whole hand controlling the mouse. Palm contact, sure, if that's your thing, but if the mouse grows too big, your ability to actively use the fingers on the side of the mouse is gone, and this is the best source of precision.
I'm extremely picky about sensors, and I must say, I haven't had any mouse perform as good as the MS Intellimouse 1.1 (it's pretty much neck and neck with the Diamondback, tough).
Also, another myth is that laser sensors are better. This is just a complete lie. I was baffled when the laser mice entered the market and everyone started making those instead of the infrared ones; as for instance Razer, hasn't come up with a laser sensor that is anything close to their infrared ones, at least not yet. In my opinion, Razer mice have had pretty crappy sensors since the Diamondback one. The absolute worst is the one in the Habu. Utterly horrible. Skips from the day you buy it with any form of dust, and deteriorates rapidly (I should know, I bought three, from three different shipments, mind you, and all of them completely failed after short amounts of time). Currently I have the Lachesis, and it also has an unreliable sensor. Loads of skipping.
When I still played CS, I went through oodles of difference mice, and I must say the Diamondback and the Intellimouse 1.1. still are the best. Whatever you do, steer clear of laser, a good infrared sensor is simply several times better. Much more reliable.
Also, Logitech can't make mice worth shit. And, yes, I've tried a bunch. Maybe they'll work if you've got gorilla hands (nothing wrong with that, gorillas must game as well, but you're missing out on superior sensors with for instance Razer, the infrared ones, at least). Also, all of them look like they were designed by a three-year-old (except the old Mouseman Wheel Optical).
After finding the Lachesis not good enough, I'm probably going to try out the Steelseries Kinzu. Hopefully it's as awesome as it looks. No-nonsense and small, as it should be. Maybe I'll finally get back to something close to the Diamondback again (I still curse the day my idiot roommate destroyed it with lemonade).
After a lot of feedback, I've narrowed it down to the Steelseries Kinzu or the Intellimouse 3.0 Both have the similar price, reputation and the light, claw-grip ergonomics I prefer. Fight!
DPI isnt really what you need for RTS. Wholly necessary for FPS, but the crazy super accuracy isnt exactly necessary unless you are fond of microing specific zerglings.
What is more important is the poll rate // refresh rate. Basically, how many times a second does your mouse look to see that you have moved.
I went from an mx518 to a deathadder. 518 is more comfortable, deathadder wins more. It's faster.
Stopped using the intellimouse years ago when the Logitech G series came out. Simply was no comparison in speed and accuracy for competitive FPS. Intellimouse is ok if you plan on just playing the game, but isn't up to snuff if you plan on being serious. If you aren't completely set I would seriously consider a G series or at the bare minimum a MX series. Both are far better then the two you have listed there.
Steelseries, no idea. Hate their headphones have never considered buying anything else. Quite possibly the only brand I dislike more then razer for being epicly cheap crap.
I think comfort is one of the best things you need. a generic dell mouse (ball) suks. thats what i used until about 2 weeks ago.
edit: I use a Razer deathadder with vespula, much more comfortable than the g5 and mx518 my friend has, though i have large hands, but the fingers are skinny.
On June 17 2010 11:41 dogabutila wrote: DPI isnt really what you need for RTS. Wholly necessary for FPS, [1]
but the crazy super accuracy isnt exactly necessary ... [2]
What is more important is the poll rate // refresh rate. Basically, how many times a second does your mouse look to see that you have moved. [3]
I went from an mx518 to a deathadder. 518 is more comfortable, deathadder wins more. It's faster. [4]
Sorry to pick on you, as many others hold such incredible viewpoints.
[1] Complete nonsense. In competitive FPS, it is widely agreed that precision wins out over cursor speed (the ability to be "tactically mobile") because of the necessity of aim. Therefore, it is better to have low DPI and lower sensitivity settings than for e.g. desktop browsing.
[2] DPI does not equate to accuracy or precision. It would be a lot easier to be 100% precise/accurate if your mouse was 1 DPI (though this is impractical in games for obvious reasons). That way you would very easily get pixel-perfect accuracy and precision.
1 DPI means you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 1 pixel. 10 DPI = you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 10 pixels (yes, it's slightly more complicated than this). And so on. That is all it means. Higher DPI will equate to higher cursor speed since moving 1 inch will move the cursor farther when the DPI is higher. In other words, higher DPI will result in worse accuracy/precision because of the nature of the human hand. In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not.
Accuracy is not something that is controlled by a single variable. There are a huge number of things in play. The way you hold the mouse, the surfaces involved (mouse and mousepad friction) etc.
[3] This aspect of a mouse is not more important or less important than any other features that mice have (including tracking software, surfaces, button placements etc.). You need good specs in everything to have the best mouse experience. You're not buying a specification, you are buying a package of features.
The Intellimouse 3.0 is my fav mouse by far, but the issue is the microswitches on them go out in short order. As such I switched to the MS Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A. It has the same optical sensor as the Intellimouse 3.0, it just lacks the side buttons, and can be found almost anywhere for about $5. I buy them 5 at a time and when the button microswitches go out I just use a new one (they all have this issue unfortunately). I haven't found a better optical sensor (for me) than the old MS ones.
Any mouse that's accurate and clicks well (as in the buttons aren't too stiff and aren't squishy). I use a razer salmosa, which isn't ideal because the buttons are so large, but until i really feel the need to get a new mouse I can deal with it just fine.
Any FPS grade mouse will be fine. But if you want MORE than fine, get the Razer Spectre with APM IMPROVEMENT TECHNOLOGY
oh, and depending on your preferred pointer speed get a mouse with a DPI to match. if you like a slower pointer speed, get one with around 800 dpi. If you get a mouse with something like 500000000000 dpi like a lot of the new razer mice and turn the sensitivity down a lot to match your preference of a lower speed, the mouse will actually force the pointer to move in straight lines and if you've ever gotten into any FPSes you'll really notice how inaccurate it becomes. I used to play a lot of quake, I know this stuff,
On June 17 2010 11:41 dogabutila wrote: DPI isnt really what you need for RTS. Wholly necessary for FPS, [1]
but the crazy super accuracy isnt exactly necessary ... [2]
What is more important is the poll rate // refresh rate. Basically, how many times a second does your mouse look to see that you have moved. [3]
I went from an mx518 to a deathadder. 518 is more comfortable, deathadder wins more. It's faster. [4]
Sorry to pick on you, as many others hold such incredible viewpoints.
[1] Complete nonsense. In competitive FPS, it is widely agreed that precision wins out over cursor speed (the ability to be "tactically mobile") because of the necessity of aim. Therefore, it is better to have low DPI and lower sensitivity settings than for e.g. desktop browsing.
[2] DPI does not equate to accuracy or precision. It would be a lot easier to be 100% precise/accurate if your mouse was 1 DPI (though this is impractical in games for obvious reasons). That way you would very easily get pixel-perfect accuracy and precision.
1 DPI means you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 1 pixel. 10 DPI = you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 10 pixels (yes, it's slightly more complicated than this). And so on. That is all it means. Higher DPI will equate to higher cursor speed since moving 1 inch will move the cursor farther when the DPI is higher. In other words, higher DPI will result in worse accuracy/precision because of the nature of the human hand. In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not.
Accuracy is not something that is controlled by a single variable. There are a huge number of things in play. The way you hold the mouse, the surfaces involved (mouse and mousepad friction) etc.
[3] This aspect of a mouse is not more important or less important than any other features that mice have (including tracking software, surfaces, button placements etc.). You need good specs in everything to have the best mouse experience. You're not buying a specification, you are buying a package of features.
1) Game speed has a bunch to do with how fast you need the cursor to be. Needs in say...quake are far different from needs in....rainbow 6. What you want depends on which game you play. To be honest though, there was a lot of stuff I thought I posted but apparently got left out. And, now that I read it over that was a pretty gimp post. I did mean to say that looking at DPI isn't necessary for RTS.
2) "In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not." I basically just said that.... In fact I could have sworn I put in a sarcastic comment about microing individual lings, but I have no clue where it went.
3) Might not be more or less important, but it is something that people do not think about generally when buying a mouse. I certainly wouldnt buy something crazy high polling if it hurt or only had one button. But this 'response time' is certainly more important then the accuracy of the mouse in general for RTS games. While it isnt the end all be all measurement of how fast your mouse responds to your input, it is a large factor. Nobody wants an unresponsive mouse right? And in a game where pros play on CRT monitors to cut down on milliseconds of lag over LCD screens.... Wherever YOU can shave a few milliseconds off makes you a few milliseconds faster as well.
As someone already pointed out, its more accurate to have low dpi and low sensitivity, its just tougher since it requires you to move your hand more and faster than with high dpi or high sensitivity. To my knowledge, pro fps players usually play with both low dpi and low sensitivity with huge mouse pads.
One thing to remember though is to disable mouse acceleration in Windows. Thats the checkmark called "enhance pointer precision". Make sure it is UNCHECKED. Basically the "enhance pointer precision" option makes your mouse less precise by adding acceleration(yea leave it to microsoft to name it the opposite of what it does).
On June 17 2010 11:41 dogabutila wrote: DPI isnt really what you need for RTS. Wholly necessary for FPS, [1]
but the crazy super accuracy isnt exactly necessary ... [2]
What is more important is the poll rate // refresh rate. Basically, how many times a second does your mouse look to see that you have moved. [3]
I went from an mx518 to a deathadder. 518 is more comfortable, deathadder wins more. It's faster. [4]
Sorry to pick on you, as many others hold such incredible viewpoints.
[1] Complete nonsense. In competitive FPS, it is widely agreed that precision wins out over cursor speed (the ability to be "tactically mobile") because of the necessity of aim. Therefore, it is better to have low DPI and lower sensitivity settings than for e.g. desktop browsing.
[2] DPI does not equate to accuracy or precision. It would be a lot easier to be 100% precise/accurate if your mouse was 1 DPI (though this is impractical in games for obvious reasons). That way you would very easily get pixel-perfect accuracy and precision.
1 DPI means you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 1 pixel. 10 DPI = you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 10 pixels (yes, it's slightly more complicated than this). And so on. That is all it means. Higher DPI will equate to higher cursor speed since moving 1 inch will move the cursor farther when the DPI is higher. In other words, higher DPI will result in worse accuracy/precision because of the nature of the human hand. In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not.
Accuracy is not something that is controlled by a single variable. There are a huge number of things in play. The way you hold the mouse, the surfaces involved (mouse and mousepad friction) etc.
[3] This aspect of a mouse is not more important or less important than any other features that mice have (including tracking software, surfaces, button placements etc.). You need good specs in everything to have the best mouse experience. You're not buying a specification, you are buying a package of features.
1) Game speed has a bunch to do with how fast you need the cursor to be. Needs in say...quake are far different from needs in....rainbow 6. What you want depends on which game you play. At any rate, the sentence didnt say what I wanted it to say since I was drifting off. I think that whole post was kind of disjointed anyways, but I meant to say ;ooking at DPI
2) "In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not." I basically just said that....
3) Might not be more or less important, but it is something that people do not think about generally when buying a mouse. I certainly wouldnt buy something crazy high polling if it hurt or only had one button. But this 'response time' is certainly more important then the accuracy of the mouse in general for RTS games. While it isnt the end all be all measurement of how fast your mouse responds to your input, it is a large factor. Nobody wants an unresponsive mouse right? And in a game where pros play on CRT monitors to cut down on milliseconds of lag over LCD screens.... Wherever YOU can shave a few milliseconds off makes you a few milliseconds faster as well.
4) ?
As far as point 1), yes there are extremities and corner cases. But even in the super-fast world of Q3, gamers prefer low sens and big mouse pads for lots of hand motion (to make up for the low cursor speed). The context of the point being this: that in comparing RTS and FPS players, FPS players almost universally have lower DPI settings.
For 2), yes you said something quasi-similar, but you were implying that DPI = accuracy. This is the exact opposite of reality. Higher DPI equates to lower accuracy in terms of human performance. That's the point I was making.
Sorry I didn't properly respond to [4], I was in a rush. You said that the Deathadder is "faster" but gave no indication of what you meant or why "faster" is better. Does it physically move faster on the mouse pad? Is it "faster" because the cursor speed is higher (because the DPI can be higher)? And how does being "faster" in any of these ways make it a better mouse?
I'm not going to say that a Deathadder isn't a superior mouse to an MX518. However, I have reasoning behind my positions, and I'm frustrated when others either don't have any justification for their opinions or don't voice them (or in your case, are just ambiguous as to what they mean).
The OP is asking for help, and a lot of people are offering "this is the best mouse" with no qualifications or reasoning. Maybe they're right, but think about it from the OP's perspective. This isn't a poll, the mouse with the most votes isn't going to "win". The OP is trying to make an intelligent decision based on rational discussion.
To be honest I don't know how pros set their mouses. When I played 1.6, I had the mx518 and I would turn the mouse sensitivity up, and the ingame sensitivity down to like 1.3 or something. I don't know if that makes sense at all, but it had the effect of making the crosshairs move when i moved my mouse, without having them jump all over the screen every time i twitched.
I used to use a medium-sized wireless mouse for bw. It was HORRIBLE. It had delays in response, won't respond sometimes, etc. I blamed the mouse for all my newbness. Then, I had several mouse switches. (All Razer products only):
1. Razer copperhead - I got used to this mouse. I started to like it a lot. However, it was still too big
2. Razer diamondback - I did not like this mouse from the start. way too big and heavy
3. Razer Deathadder - too big, too heavy
3. Razer Salmosa The best mouse ever for me. It's light, small, does not have the extra buttons that sometimes get in the way (at least to me) . I really love the basic design of this mouse. It's great! I've been using it for 1+ yr and no problem so far. I really recommend this mouse.
On June 17 2010 11:41 dogabutila wrote: DPI isnt really what you need for RTS. Wholly necessary for FPS, [1]
but the crazy super accuracy isnt exactly necessary ... [2]
What is more important is the poll rate // refresh rate. Basically, how many times a second does your mouse look to see that you have moved. [3]
I went from an mx518 to a deathadder. 518 is more comfortable, deathadder wins more. It's faster. [4]
Sorry to pick on you, as many others hold such incredible viewpoints.
[1] Complete nonsense. In competitive FPS, it is widely agreed that precision wins out over cursor speed (the ability to be "tactically mobile") because of the necessity of aim. Therefore, it is better to have low DPI and lower sensitivity settings than for e.g. desktop browsing.
[2] DPI does not equate to accuracy or precision. It would be a lot easier to be 100% precise/accurate if your mouse was 1 DPI (though this is impractical in games for obvious reasons). That way you would very easily get pixel-perfect accuracy and precision.
1 DPI means you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 1 pixel. 10 DPI = you move 1 inch, your mouse cursor moves 10 pixels (yes, it's slightly more complicated than this). And so on. That is all it means. Higher DPI will equate to higher cursor speed since moving 1 inch will move the cursor farther when the DPI is higher. In other words, higher DPI will result in worse accuracy/precision because of the nature of the human hand. In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not.
Accuracy is not something that is controlled by a single variable. There are a huge number of things in play. The way you hold the mouse, the surfaces involved (mouse and mousepad friction) etc.
[3] This aspect of a mouse is not more important or less important than any other features that mice have (including tracking software, surfaces, button placements etc.). You need good specs in everything to have the best mouse experience. You're not buying a specification, you are buying a package of features.
1) Game speed has a bunch to do with how fast you need the cursor to be. Needs in say...quake are far different from needs in....rainbow 6. What you want depends on which game you play. At any rate, the sentence didnt say what I wanted it to say since I was drifting off. I think that whole post was kind of disjointed anyways, but I meant to say ;ooking at DPI
2) "In RTS, we "trade" accuracy for screen coverage more often than not." I basically just said that....
3) Might not be more or less important, but it is something that people do not think about generally when buying a mouse. I certainly wouldnt buy something crazy high polling if it hurt or only had one button. But this 'response time' is certainly more important then the accuracy of the mouse in general for RTS games. While it isnt the end all be all measurement of how fast your mouse responds to your input, it is a large factor. Nobody wants an unresponsive mouse right? And in a game where pros play on CRT monitors to cut down on milliseconds of lag over LCD screens.... Wherever YOU can shave a few milliseconds off makes you a few milliseconds faster as well.
4) ?
As far as point 1), yes there are extremities and corner cases. But even in the super-fast world of Q3, gamers prefer low sens and big mouse pads for lots of hand motion (to make up for the low cursor speed). The context of the point being this: that in comparing RTS and FPS players, FPS players almost universally have lower DPI settings.
For 2), yes you said something quasi-similar, but you were implying that DPI = accuracy. This is the exact opposite of reality. Higher DPI equates to lower accuracy in terms of human performance. That's the point I was making.
Sorry I didn't properly respond to [4], I was in a rush. You said that the Deathadder is "faster" but gave no indication of what you meant or why "faster" is better. Does it physically move faster on the mouse pad? Is it "faster" because the cursor speed is higher (because the DPI can be higher)? And how does being "faster" in any of these ways make it a better mouse?
I'm not going to say that a Deathadder isn't a superior mouse to an MX518. However, I have reasoning behind my positions, and I'm frustrated when others either don't have any justification for their opinions or don't voice them (or in your case, are just ambiguous as to what they mean).
The OP is asking for help, and a lot of people are offering "this is the best mouse" with no qualifications or reasoning. Maybe they're right, but think about it from the OP's perspective. This isn't a poll, the mouse with the most votes isn't going to "win". The OP is trying to make an intelligent decision based on rational discussion.
2) I didn't really mean to imply that. I don't know whats going on. I can swear I'm posting something but it isn't in my post or thaen i double post or something. I;m just trying to point out that you don't need the specific accuracy // it isn't as important unless you are imcroing individual zerglings, and looking at DPI (high or low) isn't as necessary for RTS, BECAUSE accuracy isn't as important. And taht looking at the mouse responsiveness in general is more important the ndpi numbers.
4) Sorry, I just meant faster as in "less time elapes between when you move the mouse to when the cursor on the screen moves" I think less "mechanical lag" is always better. My friend used to play dota with some stupid laptop wireless mouse thats half the size of a regular mouse and he would always complain when he died, and he would get angry saying "I clicked". I never understood what he meant until i got on his computer real quick to look something up and his mouse seriously does not respond when you move it. Morale of the story is don't game with a mouse some cute girl gave you just cause you want to get into her pants when she isnt' there because in all likelihood it will suck and you will die and be ngry
Regarding to the poll between Kinzu and Intelli 3.0, if i bought a new mouse i wouldnt buy neither one of those. Although i would tend to choose Kinzu, like a poster already said, kinzu (probably) have a negative acceleration which isnt solvable. I personally wouldnt choose a intelli 3.0 neither, because i just feel comfortable with a higher sensitive mouse(less space for moving across the entire screen->higher DPI).
Despite there are voices who have a low opinion about razer mice, i honestly wonder why. Maybe the material could be better for that price, but i dont see a really alternative if i want a sensitive, light and not clumsy mouse. Among clumsy i mean mice like mx518, mice which are designed for palm grip users.
If i have to choose a new mouse, i as a fingertip user would probably buy razer abyssus.
Salmosa is easily a great mouse for RTS, accurate, lightweight, good for fingertip or claw grip.
It won't be too heavy or too light for you, and will reduce the strain on your hands through extended use. Plus, its fairly cheap, got one for $35 AUD.
I use an older generation of the razer diamond (after watching daily 132 or whichever it was I was stoked to see that it's the same mouse day9 uses). I can't speak for the new ones with complete certainty, since mine is older, but my general thought is that it's really accurate without being too stupid fast. Only downside is that it's kinda spendy in the world of optical mice (50 usd :/), but it's cheap compared to other razers. I would recommend that over the abyssus that some people have been recommending because of its lower dpi- 1800 is plenty, probably, and 3500 is kind silly. Unless you like feeling like your mouse does speed.
I got a bug a while back and thought I wanted to buy a new mouse, and the more I tried out the more I came to believe that while the razers might be a little nicer, I don't think they're so much better that their worth the difference in price. I pitched in with some people last summer to buy a friend a Lychesis for his birthday, and it is a great mouse, no doubt, but I don't think it was really worth the money when you put next to some of the cheaper stuff.
MX™518 Optical Gaming Mouse is great for the price. $50 USD, its about quility you dont want something to cheap as you can really feel it when you play RTS. Well i can.
I like this one, the Logitech G500 Gaming Mouse, it was about $70 at Best Buy, user defined weighting, has 200-5700 dpi, with 3 user defined settings you can quickly switch between, 10 programmable buttons, and a scroll wheel that can switch modes with the push of a button to either free-spin or click-to-click. In any case, I highly recommend any of the mice from the Logitech Gaming Mice line, durable yet versatile. One warning though, you'll never like regular mice, again! hehe :p
if u go by what esreality socred in 07 you should know that they later tested the Razer Deathadder and found that the sensor in that mouse is actually superior to all mice they tested on that list(razer calls it the 3g because its their 3rd generation optical sensor i think)
this is the same sensor used in the diamondback 3g, and salmosa.
theres actually a newer version of the death adder called the 3.5g or something which is what the abyssus use as well
the salmosa i found is actually lighter then the logitech mini optical. the optical is slightly more comfortable because the sides next to the buttons go in instead extending straight like the salmosa.. also theres the squeaking mouse button that u can fix by applying chapstick to the plastic contact points which require u to take apart the mouse but doing so wont actually damage any warrenty sticker
so if u like the logitech mini optical i suggest the salmosa if u need more dpi for whatever reason
X = horizontal resolution (number of pixels) Y = inches you must move to go from slightly beyond the left side of the map to slightly beyond the right side
(X pixels)/(Y inches of mouse movement) = upper limit of useful DPI
So, for sc2, if you are running at 1680x1050 (the highest resolution I have for SC2) and you have a ridiculously high sensitivity such that you can go from the left to the right side of your screen in 1 inch, the maximum useful DPI for your mouse is 1680.
If you have a more reasonable mouse sensitivity (like, you can move from the left to the right side of the screen in the space of 4 inches, which is like half the size of a typical mousepad) then the maximum useful mouse DPI is 420.
I have the G500, but haven't used much of anything else so I can't compare. The only problem, and it's a major one, is that it's really uncomfortable for position the pinky. I use a semi-claw grip and I just can't get used to how I place my pinky.
I got the Razer DeathAdder fairly recently and so far I'm loving it. I previously had the Logitech GX3 and that was alright as well, although the shape of the mouse may be unappealing to a lot of players. I don't think one needs to spend as much as I did for the DeathAdder though, it was just a present I got =).
Nor does it cost that much. Really good for starcraft. I have two my friend gave me along with a samsung keyboard. Most of these high tech mouses are better for different games. All in all its personal preference. Njoy !
Nor does it cost that much. Really good for starcraft. I have two my friend gave me along with a samsung keyboard. Most of these high tech mouses are better for different games. All in all its personal preference. Njoy !
Yea it's a great mouse but many people these days have 22+ inch resolution monitors and 800dpi doesn't cut it anymore.
Nor does it cost that much. Really good for starcraft. I have two my friend gave me along with a samsung keyboard. Most of these high tech mouses are better for different games. All in all its personal preference. Njoy !
Yea it's a great mouse but many people these days have 22+ inch resolution monitors and 800dpi doesn't cut it anymore.
True, very true, didn't think about that. We still use these old school monitors lol.
I have a digital scale and can provide the following weight information. I have found the weights listed online are unreliable. I even e-mailed razer technical support to find the weight of my salmosa mini and they were incorrect. Perhaps they include the cord in the weight. All of these weights are from an Ohaus Scout high grade scale. The cords are all held up about 10 inches out from the mouse in a mouse bungee.
Logitech Mini Optical: 71 grams Salmosa mini (asia pro edition): 55.5 grams Logitech MX 510 with weight removed: 97 grams Logitech G500 with weight cartridge removed: 108 grams
Does anyone have an accurate weight for the regular Salmosa and Steelseries Kinzu? Please only reply if you have weighed them on a scale yourself and removed the cord weight as best as possible. As stated above the manufacturer's weight claims are unreliable.
On June 19 2010 05:24 arb wrote: You do know no mouse you buy is going to make you a god at the game right?
use one thats comfortable, there is no "best gaming mouse"
I'd argue the mouse that's comfortable is the best gaming mouse. For me it's one and the same. Mice with low sensitivity or DPI on large screens like the monitor I have feel like they're straining my hand.
I do have an mx518 however my hand for some reason feels uncomfortable in it if I hold it for too long... or maybe it's just me. Otherwise I find the mouse great~
Ive used Intellimouse, razer mice, logitech mice, random mice
And logitech mice are a clear winner in terms of quality.
However, there are only really 2 important factors in choosing a mouse. Quality and comfort. If you can find a logitech that fits how you hold/use your mouse, it will always be better than a Microsoft/Razer/Steelseries.
I use a logitech G5, its awsome imo except one thing, the rubbery bit where your thumb goes is getting worn out dropping off :-( so much for quality yo.
Whatever music you like to listen to, doesn't really matter. It seems like a lot of the better players like to play dance/trance/techno music, I prefer Eminem though.
EDIT- Oh wow, I read "mouse" as music...
Well, I would say the Logitech optical mini, its a most excellent mouse that should meet the requirements of anyone wanting to get good at starcraft. But in the end, it really comes down to what you're comfortable and familiar with.
On June 21 2010 03:06 LordAwesome wrote: I have a Microsoft 3.0, was gonna buy a new one.
If u put MS3.0 mouse on max speed, it moves at 2 pixels/update, and even at fastest speed its too slow.
That being said, any1 know a small smooth mouse wich is faster than the MS 3.0?
Or a way to increase mouse speed beyond the windows settings (Regedit fix does not work)?
Look for a mouse with as high dpi as possible if speed is what you want. The MS 3.0 is solely for low sensitivity users. Never use more than 6/11 at the windows control panel as it causes your mouse to skip pixels and that's bad for your accuracy.
OP, just find the shape you want and you can find the equivalent MS/Logitech/Razer for it (or Roccat if you're in Europe.) Steel makes fine mousepads and headsets, but their mice always have negative acceleration, prediction, etc. These are the 4 companies worth buying from, although not all of their mice are worth buying. If you can, find an optical mouse instead of a laser mouse, but in most cases they're fairly close (except the opticals are generally cheaper.) This has been empirically tested. Not the "I've used this and it feels great!" crap that's making up the majority of this thread.
Things like DPI/CPI are mostly irrelevant. Once you're past 900, I really doubt you'll be able to handle much more with normal settings. Turn off Enhance Pointer Precision, keep Windows mouse sensitivity on 6/11 and just play around with whatever combination of DPI and ingame sensitivity you'd like.
About the mouses listed, Kinzu is bad. The IME3.0 is like the Godfather of FPS mice, but since we're talking about SC2, I'm not sure how it'll do. If you like the shape, however, go for it. Another consideration is the Deathadder, because it's basically the exact same mouse with a couple extra modernities and a better sensor.
I've ordered a SteelSeries Xai over the weekend so it will be interested to see how that fares. I've played with a Logitech mx 518 for about 5 years now, but it's starting to show its age.
Ugh, you compare two mice that are not even close to eachother when it comes to their shape and weight etc. What you need is something that fits your hand well and has the right weight - FOR YOU. Regardless of what others think, myself included ofc, that is what you should be trying to get and the best advice to give would be to simply go out to diffrent stores that allows for trying them out.
They're both great mice though, both optical, kinzu lacking sidebuttons however but has a faster spec.
Anyway, I think this is a bad way of trying to find what you need.
I've been using the MX518 for years, and i already bought another one for when this one stops working I love it, it's the best mouse i've put my hands on.
Anyone mapped their the thumb buttons to move the screen? What's the best mouse with great thumb positioning? I always just want to rest my thumb on the thumb button, instead of actually moving my thumb a bit in all the mouses.
On June 21 2010 05:09 Jibba wrote:OP, just find the shape you want and you can find the equivalent MS/Logitech/Razer for it (or Roccat if you're in Europe.)
I imported a Roccat Kone a while back because I liked the shape a lot. and within 3 months it crapped out on me.
Unless you really like the shape, go with Razer/Logitech over Roccat (unless you're in Finland, where I suppose you might get better customer support).
I would never use anything else besides the Logitech Mini Optical because of its perfect weight, size, and sensitivity, but it seems the resolutions in SC2 are just too big for the mini optical's reading sensor.
I've been having stuttering problems when making quick mouse movements even in 1024x768 which never happened in BW because of its tiny 640x480 fixed resolution. I love the mini op but its sensor just hasn't been cutting it in SC2. Playable, but annoying. I have the MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 as well, but its size and weight strains my wrist and forearm after extensive SC playing; playing FPS with it is great though. It has an amazing reading sensor, now if there was a mini optical with the IE 3.0's sensor, that would be kickass.
So, I'd like to know, coming from firsthand experience players who used the logitech mini optical in BW, what mouse are you guys using for SC2 or are you guys in the same boat I am?
When I bought my Lachesis, I was of the mindset of "More DPI is better right? This one is the most expensive, so it's most likely the best." and I bought it. I was a little hurt when I found out that DPI that high (4000, lol) is completely and utterly useless for me and probably anyone else playing on a screen smaller than your bedroom wall.
Most likely, you'll be fine with any comfortable wired mouse that doesn't skip. Most people will probably get more benefit from just tweaking the in-game sensitivity until you find something that works. Even with absolutely perfect control on the user's part, the boasted performance specs on a mouse will have a near-negligible impact on your actual play (for an RTS, at least).
Like others have said so far, claw grip is best for RTS, so small mice are the way to go. I have pretty big hands and I can say for certain the Salmosa does no wrong. I even ordered the asian version, which is slightly smaller and a little lighter.
I guess the only exception would be if you have gigantor hands, and can claw grip those really long mice.
It really doesn't matter what mouse you use. What is important is to know how to set it up so it's comfortable for you to play. If you buy some mouse with high DPI use the highest DPI and set in game mouse sensitivity to low as you find it comfortable. If you buy some mouse with low DPI use that DPI and set a little higher sensitivity. Most people recommend also to turn of mouse acceleration if you use windows. That's about it what is important about mouse. Don't be fooled with high price mouses, they offer almost nothing that middle price range mouses doesn't have.
All good starcraft mouses, nothing else compares to them. You might think other mouses work well, but once you learn how to use these small mice you will understand they are on a completely different level.
Basically there's two kinds of mice for competitive video games: Small, symmetrical mice, like the logitech mini optical and MX300 that professional brood war players use, and slightly larger, ergonomic mice like the intellimouse 1.1/3.0 that professional FPS players use.
The mouse you want is preferential, as comfort(shape, size, and weight) is the most important thing to look for in a mouse. FPS players almost exclusively use ergonomic, intellimouse type mice while RTS players use either those or smaller, symmetrical mice (Many RTS players prefer light weight, symmetrical mouse as it allows them to move it back and forth and do the high sensitivity, large number of fast, low accuracy operations RTS games require)
You can get any of these mice for around $20 or get more expensive versions with fancy features (glowing buttons and snake logos) (The Intellimouse turns into the Razer DeathAdder, and the mini optical turns into the Razer Salmosa/Razer Krait)
The only time DPI matters is when a) your resolution is very high AND b) you want to be making fast movements. in this case you don't want a 400 DPI mouse but anything over 1000 will not help you or improve your accuracy at all. Keep in mind if you get something like a DeathAdder you can tone down the DPI if you want, but leave windows sensitivity on 6/11.
E: Ultrapolling (1000hz polling/1MS response time) is cool but un-necessary, and mousepads are nice to have.
Don't you suffer from the stuttering when you do quick mouse movements? I really am.
On June 21 2010 14:20 zor wrote: The only time DPI matters is when a) your resolution is very high AND b) you want to be making fast movements. in this case you don't want a 400 DPI mouse but anything over 1000 will not help you or improve your accuracy at all. Keep in mind if you get something like a DeathAdder you can tone down the DPI if you want, but leave windows sensitivity on 6/11.
E: Ultrapolling (1000hz polling/1MS response time) is cool but un-necessary, and mousepads are nice to have.
MS IE 3.0 has 400 DPI and it's sensor works superb in any application. Reads 9000 frames or something of the sort that I don't care about, but it has been one if not the top choice for FPS games, and doesn't stutter in RTS either.
Changing the polling rate to 1000hz or 1ms response time IS unnecessary, but in my experience, affects my performance and gameplay hugely. Everything just feels better, smoother, and control of units is much more responsive. But that's because I click excessively. You may not feel the difference, but I KNOW and FEEL there is a difference. You should all try it, but I'm not at fault if you screw your hardware up. =]
Personally, I use a Logitech G500 and the highest DPI setting I use is 2000, and it can go to 5700. 5700 dpi is plain rediculous, you need to be amazing to actually use it correctly, and normally its for an FPS, not an RTS. It doesn't really matter what mouse you use, but I like Logitech mice because they are comfy and fit my hand pretty well.
I wonder why people insist of using the MX518 for SC, I only find it really efficient for FPS games. Maybe its because I lack a mousepad? :/
Though to be honest the MX518 seems bulky, I would prefer a flatter mouse for the RTS genre. But the 1800 DPI and great price for such quality makes it popular.
On June 21 2010 05:50 FreshVegetables wrote: mx518 is the best imo.
if you have small hands - it's hell on my lager hands, G500 is a larger more modern MX518
I use my g500 exclusively, but I find the 518 to be more comfortable so I guess I have small hands. I really new a new mouse just for starcraft. My hands sweat easily and the mouse always start slipping from me.
On June 21 2010 14:20 zor wrote: Basically there's two kinds of mice for competitive video games: Small, symmetrical mice, like the logitech mini optical and MX300 that professional brood war players use, and slightly larger, ergonomic mice like the intellimouse 1.1/3.0 that professional FPS players use.
I looked the mx300 mouse up thinking it would be completely different than what I had. Funny thing is i have the mx300. I just thought it was a little ironic that i was looking for a great mouse when I had one right next to me.
I have been using the IE 3.0 for about 6-7 years now and I like it, not that I have much to compare to but. They're great because I have very big hands and it's a big mouse so it fits my hand fairl well.
On June 16 2010 19:16 shawabawa wrote: edit: But seriously, I use Microsoft Intellimouse, by far the best mouse I've ever used, and dirt cheap
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
Dude the mouse in that pic is not IE 3.0 that's the 1.1 version and it's way worse than 3.0 imo.
The MX518 feels like a toy. I had one and I got tired of using something that felt like it came out of a happy meal so I upgraded to the G500. Fantastic mouse, feels like quality.
On July 06 2010 17:10 Me0w wrote: I think the MX518 is a bit too light and plasticy. G5 is a much better version if you can add some extra dollars.
explain?
my mx500 is slowly dying(left button sometimes decides to not take my commands) and i planned to get a mx518 cause i thought its pretty much the same.
so is it less heavy or much different then the mx500?
You can make it either really light or really heavy depending on which you prefer... But I prefer when it's really heavy, a heavy mouse + a good mousepad gives you an excellent glide.
Apart from that the G5 has a certain texture to it: It's not just plain plastic but there's a rugged feel to that black/blue surface which gives you a great grip. Might sound pointless but now that I'm used to it, holding a MX518 just feels really weird and slippery. If you get any hand sweat with an MX518 your hand is just sliding all over
The closest 'enthusiast' mouse to the size of the logitech mini optical (which all the pro gamer use) is the razer salmosa asian edition
i have fairly large hands, buit its still no problem too use because its a fingertip grip mouse exclusively. It's impossible to rest your hand on it, which i think is a good thing
I use a razer deathadder and it fits in my hand perfectly, runs alot smoother than any other mouse ive had, and has never given me a problem. I would reccommend buying one if your willing to drop like 40$ on a mouse.
On July 06 2010 17:30 kalleralle wrote: I have been using the IE 3.0 for about 6-7 years now and I like it, not that I have much to compare to but. They're great because I have very big hands and it's a big mouse so it fits my hand fairl well.
On June 16 2010 19:16 shawabawa wrote: edit: But seriously, I use Microsoft Intellimouse, by far the best mouse I've ever used, and dirt cheap
And I did some tests and it's more accurate than the logitech G5 I bought, so I stopped using the g5.
Dude the mouse in that pic is not IE 3.0 that's the 1.1 version and it's way worse than 3.0 imo.
Actually, if you researched the report ESR did, the 1.1a and 3.0 use the same optics. Only difference is shape preference. RTS is better suited to the 1.1a imo - smaller, lighter.
I had a razer lachesis back from the darkfall beta/release days, that game had fps combat so it was a good mouse. For rts, it's horrible, and i switched to the logitech mini optical (which is out of production BUT you can still find some on ebay), now the razer stands abandoned and i use only the logitech.
On July 06 2010 17:30 kalleralle wrote: Dude the mouse in that pic is not IE 3.0 that's the 1.1 version and it's way worse than 3.0 imo.
I never said it was the 3.0... I said it was the mouse I used. The 3.0 may well be better but i'm happy with my 1.1. It's served me well for ~5 years with no problems.
Nah, seriously, I bought a GXT-14 from trust as a replaced for a logitech that committed suicide.
It's nicely ergonomic (can play for hours and hours without getting the all-too-common "dull fingers" feeling), has a button that you can hit to increase/decrease DPI on the fly and overall is nice to handle, altho I admit its weird shape makes you kind of feel like "omg WTF" the first few hours.
I just ordered this one (Sharkoon FireGlider Black edition) to replace my Intellimouse. I need a mouse that is better on different surfaces, because I don't want to rely on a gaming mousepad all the time. In the summer my hands get sweaty and after a while the Intellimouse starts acting up and jumping around.
It has adjustable weights and 6 programmable buttons, which work even without a special driver.
I just ordered this one (Sharkoon FireGlider Black edition) to replace my Intellimouse. I need a mouse that is better on different surfaces, because I don't want to rely on a gaming mousepad all the time. In the summer my hands get sweaty and after a while the Intellimouse starts acting up and jumping around.
It has adjustable weights and 6 programmable buttons, which work even without a special driver.
You could've spent 5 dollars on new mouse feet.
Unless you mean you're using like your couch as a mousepad.
choosing mouse is actually an art: + hand shape, hand position(claw) is different from person to person + the level of softness of the left/right buttons on the mouse(sometime this can hold off your apm) + weight, smoothness, appearence
its kinda hard to decide which one is the best but "which one is the best FOR YOU"
to me it could be this one microsoft wired optical mouse 3000
reason: its light, the rate of rebounce on 2 buttons are quite fast, mobility for gaming on laptop
or it could be a razer abysus which i just grap from the store 22 hours ago...
Edit: i strongly recommend EVERYONE WHO IS LOOKING FOR A PROPER MOUSE to look into razer's support website where they teach you how to choose your own mouse base on your own information. It could be a non-razer mouse but check it out!!!!
I just ordered this one (Sharkoon FireGlider Black edition) to replace my Intellimouse. I need a mouse that is better on different surfaces, because I don't want to rely on a gaming mousepad all the time. In the summer my hands get sweaty and after a while the Intellimouse starts acting up and jumping around.
It has adjustable weights and 6 programmable buttons, which work even without a special driver.
You could've spent 5 dollars on new mouse feet.
Unless you mean you're using like your couch as a mousepad.
I never really use the functions on different mouses and so.. Just get one that feels good.. Since i have pretty big hands, i got the Logitech MX518, G5 as it may be called.. Woorks out just fine..
I used the Anywhere MX. I know alot of people here have a thing against wireless for gaming, but for some reason I just feel so comfortable using it for just about anything.
What's a good, small mouse that's shaped just like this one? I think symmetrical mouses are more for me because they don't put too much pressure on the ball of my palm.
I use the Genius Ergo 555. It is the most comfortable mouse ever and can store 5 different profiles on the actual mouse (so it carries across computers) about X/Y dpi and macros.
I have owned Razer, MS and Logitech mice before and they just feel cheap, nasty and inaccurate in comparison.
My second choice if I had one would be Logitech though.
If anyone's checking out the Razer Abyssus, I can say that it's very very good... feels like it was made for this game. Definitely better than my old MS 3.0. Made for clawgrip
This is my third year using the Razer Copperhead and its still running strong. I will not be replacing it unless it breaks, probably need some new mouse feet/mouse pad soon however.
This is seriously awesome. Had a steel series pad before but this is something extra. I have had alot of different pads in my years of gaming and this beats everything by a lot. I hadn't tested it but read some reviews and it was recommended by Razer to go with my new mouse:
And the two make an amazing couple. I switched to a pure palm grip and cranked my sensitivity up by quite a lot and I could just feel after a couple of games this weekend now how much my control have improved. Just yesterday I found myself thinking "holy crap" when I was in an early rush micro battle and pulled off some sweet moves.
Anyway, two points to this:
1) Don't neglect your mouse pad. 2) No matter what you end up with, good hardware can and will improve your game so play around until you find YOUR combo. The above is mine right now...
Well I bought the steel series xai, and I've since gone back to my trusty (and overly worn) mx 518.
The xai is the better mouse, it's noticeably smoother and it's tracking is remarkable. But it doesn't 'feel' very nice, especially in RTS. It's probably better in first person games though.
My problems with it is mostly down to the buttons one the right side of the mouse. With my (above average hand size) and grip, I can't avoid clicking those right buttons. Now they aren't bound to anything, but it's so annoying to me.
Also, I could never get used to a DPI/sensitivity that just felt right to me. Especially in starcraft where I couldn't move the mouse around as fast as I could with the MX518 without really ramping up the DPI. When you do that then your micro gets real difficult.
So I binned it (well put it back in its box for ebay) and I'm going to buy a new 518. I wish I could have the 518 with the newer laser sensors and everything else the same. That would be the *perfect* RTS mouse.
Another vote for the G5 if you have big hands. I can palm a basketball, not talking Shaq hands by any means, but they are larger than average. A lot of the flatter mice simply feel too awkward because my finger tips will hang over the front of the mice which makes clicking a huge pain in the ass. The G5 has a decent sized hump which feels ergonomic and its a tad bigger than your standard mouse as well.
I would NEVER by a mouse unless I was able see how it feels in my hand first. It doesn't matter how many buttons, how much DPI, or whatever: if your hand doesn't feel comfortable using it then it's not worth the money.
On June 16 2010 19:55 ChApFoU wrote: Any cheap logitech mouse will do the trick. I use this :
Logitech RX250, works like a charm, no useless shit, 1000 dpi and costs 10$, before that I used the loved Mini Optical. Logitech is the way to go, you absolutely DO NOT need a Razer for RTS. Trust me and you will save money.
This mouse is good and i love the fact that it has a front and a back button through the directional scroll button. But the downside is that the buttons require a bit more preassure to to click than the avarage mouse. The shape is excellent and its uber cheap. Bought it for like 7 euro.
I've had a bunch of mice in the last 10 yrs and the only company that hasn't disappointed me once is Microsoft. Their mice are really simple and very good. Their designs are great and fit your hand very well.
I'm using this: (Edit: Razer Imperator) Since I have really big hands - but also palm grip - this is the first mouse ever, that really fits my hand. I'd suggest you to go to the nearest bigger computer store and just try.
Also I can recommend (qualitywise) MS Intellimouse, Logitech MX518 and Logitech G7. (although it's a wireless mouse, it performs really great imo/you can quick switch the accumulator) It's up to you which mouse fits you the best.
ive been using the Logitec M-BZ96C for as long as i remember (still do), that being said i just won the razor imperator (i hope i spelled it right) in a recent tournament, does ne1 know if its ne good ?
On July 19 2010 23:20 HuK wrote: ive been using the Logitec M-BZ96C for as long as i remember (still do), that being said i just won the razor imperator (i hope i spelled it right) in a recent tournament, does ne1 know if its ne good ?
Look above, that is an Imperator. ^^* Grats btw. If you have big hands like me, it's just great, since the side buttons are adjustable and the shape is imo perfect for palm grippers. + Show Spoiler +
I use it with a Razer Destructor mousepad, since it didn't work well with my old glass pad. :/ It glides really nice though and now I'm quite happy that I bought the Destructor.
It's imo very easy to get used to this mouse, so you should just give it a try.
Razer Diamondback 3G is mine and some of my friends absolute favourite. Its a Finger mouse, small and quick. If you like a mouse to fill your whole hand like the G5 or Deathadder, then this mouse isn't for you.
When I hold my mouse, only my fingers touch it. If this is your style, try the Diamondback for sure!
So im thinking about buying the imperator or the G9x. I have heard that the imperator has problems when you pick it up (supposedly when you pick up the mouse the arrow moves a little to the lower right) can anyone who has the imperator comment on this, and tell if it's true, and yes if its much of a burden?
12 macro buttons is always a plus too, which is prime advertised feature. But what makes it so great for starcraft is the shape and size, more so than the buttons.
You don't need more than a $20 mouse for starcraft. Nobody in their right mind plays at 3200dpi unless they enjoy wrist injury. Ktec 9500+ is decent also.
What's funny is that I've completely thrown around my mouse settings/style for SC2, compared to my usual FPS style.
In FPS (mostly Q3/Quake Live, Warsow, Jailbreak Source and CS:S) I am one of those low-sens junkies. 35*25cm cloth mousepad, Deathadder, palmgrip, 'shoulder/arm aiming', about 30cm/360.
For SC2, I find this a pretty uncomfortable setup, interestingly. The palmgrip keeps me from making zigzag motions with my mouse easily, and whole-arm-aiming is a bit too slow for RTS micro. My wrist/fingers are probably way more suited to this. Thing is, the Deathadder is pretty uncomfortable for me when used with claw grip (fingers/wrist only) - the sides are a bit too slippery to have a good grip on. Also, the cloth mousepad is orgasmic in Quake/twitch shooters where you'll want quick snap aiming(RL/Railgun) and/or smooth constant tracking (lightning gun), but too slow and too much friction in RTS.
So currently, I have a dual-mouse setup :D I've got my FPS/regular use setup in its normal position, and a Logitech G5+Razer eXactmat right beside that for when I start up SC2. The G5 is less than ideal (it's still the older model with horrible top speeds), but the grip is pretty much perfect. eXactmat is slick as hell, too.
Now...all I need is to somehow incorporate my DDR pads into my control scheme for MAXIMUM NERD.
You don't need more than a $20 mouse for starcraft. Nobody in their right mind plays at 3200dpi unless they enjoy wrist injury. Ktec 9500+ is decent also.
Do you know if the Ktec mouses are still shipped together with those lovely mousepads like the 6500s were?
12 macro buttons is always a plus too, which is prime advertised feature. But what makes it so great for starcraft is the shape and size, more so than the buttons.
the 12 buttons makes it great for WoW as well.
Agree with this guy.
I've been using it for awhile. The DPI is rediculous (it goes far above the others listed here, and even above other Razer mice) so its super accurate, and the shape is the best part. It has a grip that works better than the other Razer mice - the other ones tend to shake the pointer a bit if you use the side buttons due to the sensitivity - but with the positioning of the grip that doesnt happen with this one.
Plus you have more buttons than you will ever need for any game. Just think, any hotkey on your keyboard that's on the right half that you would typically have to use your right hand for.... you can just bind it to your mouse.
On July 23 2010 18:17 Deckkie wrote: So im thinking about buying the imperator or the G9x. I have heard that the imperator has problems when you pick it up (supposedly when you pick up the mouse the arrow moves a little to the lower right) can anyone who has the imperator comment on this, and tell if it's true, and yes if its much of a burden?
I'm thinking about buying the imperator too. I have a fingertip grip when playing fps, rts and even at work, I'm not moving my forearm at all, only the hand and fingers and therefore i have to pick up my mouse all the time. Can you guys recommend the imperator for my fingertip style or are there other mice which fit my style probably better?
On July 23 2010 18:17 Deckkie wrote: So im thinking about buying the imperator or the G9x. I have heard that the imperator has problems when you pick it up (supposedly when you pick up the mouse the arrow moves a little to the lower right) can anyone who has the imperator comment on this, and tell if it's true, and yes if its much of a burden?
I'm thinking about buying the imperator too. I have a fingertip grip when playing fps, rts and even at work, I'm not moving my forearm at all, only the hand and fingers and therefore i have to pick up my mouse all the time. Can you guys recommend the imperator for my fingertip style or are there other mice which fit my style probably better?
Yes I have a fingertip style two, but the imperator is supposedly made for both palm and fingertip style. And I think the Razer spectre is now on the market as well. really like the mouse but just hate that it actually shows starcraft 2 on it :S:S what to do what to do.. anyone going to buy the razer spectre?
On July 19 2010 23:20 HuK wrote: ive been using the Logitec M-BZ96C for as long as i remember (still do), that being said i just won the razor imperator (i hope i spelled it right) in a recent tournament, does ne1 know if its ne good ?
is "any" seriously so long that you have to shorten that with "ne" ? T_T
I have an abyssus and I love the feel of it and how smoothly it moves, however for me personally its a bit short so I'm thinking about switching to the imperator. I've read a few reviews saying that this is the best razer mouse yet.
Man I'm trying to invest in a new mouse and just don't know what to do.
Currently I have an mx518 at home and a Logitech wheel mouse at work.
The mx518 I find really hard to use with a fingertip grip. It's a bit big and bulky with it's high arch and the way there's a ridge for the side buttons makes the grip less ideal to me so usually I end up holding it in a palm grip.
The Logitech wheel mouse at work feels great though in terms of size with it's lower arch and smaller size and weight. Just naturally I spend all day gripping this mouse in a fingertip style like I want for SC2.
Anyways I'm looking at a few mice and dunno what to do.
Spectre - The pros are it's small arch and length and the fact it has 5 buttons*, the cons are $80 for APM TECHNOLOGY. Abyssus - Bigger than the spectre, but also cheaper and not as wide. Has a bigger arch and no 4th and 5th buttons though Salmosa - A bit harder to find, clearly very small but the DPI is a bit dated at 1800 and I hear the mouse buttons sweak. Also very cheap though which seems like a plus. No 4th and 5th buttons. It seems like I'd rather just spend the extra money for the Spectre to get the 4th and 5th buttons. Steel Series Kinzu - Also small and compact with a nice low arch. No 4th/5th buttons. Good price though. My main complaint is that I haven't heard a lot about this mouse.
Hmm choices choices. If only I could actually put these mice in my hand before having to decide whether or not it's a good buy.
*5 buttons aren't essential to me, but it is nice because you can use thumb for voice comms.
On July 24 2010 04:31 cHuT.LoL wrote: Just use any mouse. A "gamer" mouse really isn't going to improve your gameplay in any way.
Disagree. A "gamer mouse" won't, but a good mouse will. Upon switching from G5 to Deathadder in Warsow, my accuracy spiked some 15%. It had WAY higher top speed than the G5 (and most default cheap mice, for that matter), which allowed me to use the low sensitivity that is needed in games like that. Furthermore, it doesn't suffer from negative/positive acceleration, meaning that your aim will be more consistent. And that is switching from a good mouse to a better mouse. Now compare going from a skipping cheap optical to a good mouse.
If you're talking purely about RTS, perhaps, but I can imagine that having good micro is nigh impossible if you have an unreliable mouse. I never really felt the difference until I tried a better one. Many people simply don't even realize their mouse has a top speed, simply because they instinctively keep it under that speed or else it will skip. Once you feel that you could have been going 3x as fast and it was your mouse holding you back, you'll think differently though.
On July 23 2010 18:17 Deckkie wrote: So im thinking about buying the imperator or the G9x. I have heard that the imperator has problems when you pick it up (supposedly when you pick up the mouse the arrow moves a little to the lower right) can anyone who has the imperator comment on this, and tell if it's true, and yes if its much of a burden?
Yeah, it's true. To be honest, I never noticed this before I've read it and tried it. I have to barely reposition it, because I'm playing @ 2000DPI with the standard SC2-sensitivity on a huge mousepad (Razer Destructor).
Are you allowed to return products for some time (2 weeks here in Germany) after you bought them? So you could try, if this bugs you.
Technically speaking it seems to be an issue of the sensor, used for the Imperator. It's called "Philips Twin-Eye". Mice, using this sensor: -Razer Mamba -Razer Naga -Razer Lachesis -Razer Imperator -Silverstone Raven
The problem with this sensor is, that it tracks Z-Axis movement and reacts to it with a diagonal movement of the mouse cursor. I have to say though, that I can only notice this issue, if I lift it a little and then put it back on the mousepad without moving it while it's lifted.
I recently purchased a Mionix Naos 5000. Hadn't heard of this company before, but reading some of the reviews impressed me and I decided to try out this Swedish made mouse.
The Mionix Naos 5000 is fully awesome. It has awesome tracking, and possibly the best scroll-wheel I have had the pleasure to scroll. It also is the most comfortable mouse I have ever groped, destroying my DeathAdder hands-down. I can alternate from palm-to-claw easily and comfortably, and the superb weight-cubes allow the mouse to be light or heavy (without them it's quite light and perfect for my RTS sessions).
On July 23 2010 18:17 Deckkie wrote: So im thinking about buying the imperator or the G9x. I have heard that the imperator has problems when you pick it up (supposedly when you pick up the mouse the arrow moves a little to the lower right) can anyone who has the imperator comment on this, and tell if it's true, and yes if its much of a burden?
Yeah, it's true. To be honest, I never noticed this before I've read it and tried it. I have to barely reposition it, because I'm playing @ 2000DPI with the standard SC2-sensitivity on a huge mousepad (Razer Destructor).
Are you allowed to return products for some time (2 weeks here in Germany) after you bought them? So you could try, if this bugs you.
Technically speaking it seems to be an issue of the sensor, used for the Imperator. It's called "Philips Twin-Eye". Mice, using this sensor: -Razer Mamba -Razer Naga -Razer Lachesis -Razer Imperator -Silverstone Raven
The problem with this sensor is, that it tracks Z-Axis movement and reacts to it with a diagonal movement of the mouse cursor. I have to say though, that I can only notice this issue, if I lift it a little and then put it back on the mousepad without moving it while it's lifted.
Thanks a lot :D but in the end I bought the logitech G9x... great mouse, love the unorthodox look of it ^^
Most Razer mice have Mouse prediction and acceleration - (which you definetely don't want) - and/or don't work on cloth, pretty unreliable i don't recommend them, only the earliest models like the optical Diamondback 1600 dpi are even worth contemplating - which Razer don't actually produce anymore.
On July 24 2010 06:41 DeMusliM wrote: Most Razer mice have Mouse prediction and acceleration - (which you definetely don't want) - and/or don't work on cloth, pretty unreliable i don't recommend them, only the earliest models like the optical Diamondback 1600 dpi are even worth contemplating - which Razer don't actually produce anymore.
My Deathadder works especially well on cloth (Everglide Titan, when compared to Exactmat, various Corepad and Icemat).Your mileage may vary, as with any mouse/pad combination. Also, I can't speak for all Razer mice since I haven't nearly tried them all, but the Deathadder in particular was scientifically tested and found to have the highest control speed and lowest negative acceleration of all mice tested, including the IE3.0, 1.1, MX518 and 510(overclocked and non-overclocked). Also, there is a driver option/firmware upgrade for basically all Razer mice since the Boomslang that allows you to disable the prediction function.
I'm not saying all Razer mice are perfect, but you can't really make sweeping statements like that when there is definitive evidence to the contrary.
Funnily, the model you recommend is notorious for it's sketchy build quality and acceleration. More or less everything after the diamondback was better on that front.
i dont think there is the best mouse to use... its just about personal preferences. im using logitech mice since im playing games on a competetive level because the size of it just fits my hand. i tried using a razer diamondback but i just cant stand it...
On July 24 2010 06:41 DeMusliM wrote: Most Razer mice have Mouse prediction and acceleration - (which you definetely don't want) - and/or don't work on cloth, pretty unreliable i don't recommend them, only the earliest models like the optical Diamondback 1600 dpi are even worth contemplating - which Razer don't actually produce anymore.
Abyssus doesnt. It's a great mouse, similar to lachesis but without the mouse prediction+acceleration.
My intelli mouse has been my favorite mouse that I got with my computer with 2006. Gone through many samples at best buy (they have a 30 day return policy) and ended up returning all of them. Finally replaced my old one with a new intelli because the middle button went to shit (not that it affected my SC), as it would sometimes not register a click and othertimes register it as 3 clicks (made it annoying for browsing the internet).
Depends on your grip. I use a palm grip, and as a result of that pretty much any mouse but the Deathadder is a worse choice.
Funnily, the model you recommend is notorious for it's sketchy build quality and acceleration. More or less everything after the diamondback was better on that front.
Really? I bought the Copperhead when it came out and it was awful compared to the Diamondback in pretty much every area.
On July 24 2010 10:19 kzn wrote: Depends on your grip. I use a palm grip, and as a result of that pretty much any mouse but the Deathadder is a worse choice.
The imperator is for palm grip users as well, I'm thinking about getting it.
i use kind of half palm half claw-ish grip where i palm the mouse but have the finger more claw grip styled to get some more precision
it's a great mouse, comes from a swedish company and isn't that mega expensive like most razer mouses. it has a rubber coated grip that's off great quality, works awesome when moving the mouse a lot very fast without slipping and getting your hand in an uncomfortable position.
Any mouse thats convenient to use, as pointed out, starcraft isnt that mouse-dependant.
One of the best mice ive used is a logitech mx518, used it for ut2004 (had the pleasure of playing with some of the biggest names at that time). The mousepad is also extremely important
Since i tried the logitech mini optical out, the razer lachesis stands abandoned on the desk covered with dust(ok i had to clean it yesterday). No z-axis problems, no doubleclick problems, high dpi is not needed for rts. I recommend a very simple but reliable mouse for sc2, forget about those "gaming" mice, no real pro uses them, unless they want to show off for the sponsor.
diamondback 3G my choice of weapon(have 2 of them just incase) been using it for a while now. it workes really well in CS,CSS and of course sc2 i just love the way it fits in my hand perfect fit for me...oh ya and the name :D
High DPI/precision (different from just sensitivity, as you can have high DPI and lower the sensitivity for higher accuracy), lack of drift control/acceleration and other "features" of crappy mice that screw up your aim.
For $40, a mid-range gaming mouse is going to be the best you can do for gaming (e.g deathadder, logitech gaming mice).
Razer is baller. Deathadder is comfy as hell. Haters gonna hate and buy crappy dell and microsoft mice and act like they're not worse. I am in fact a Razer plant. I am here to sell you things.
Just use any mouse. A "gamer" mouse really isn't going to improve your gameplay in any way.
well a "gamer" mouse is made to be comfortable. a bulky square office mouse won't help you out but a gaming mouse made to fit your hand and to help improve your own performance without getting tired or stiff as fast in your hand.
so :O a gamer mouse would help but it's all about the one that fits your hand. DPI or hz won't help you but comfortable-ness will
It also depends on how you grip your mouse as well. Only my fingertips touch the mouse and I use my fingers to guide it so the form doesn't really matter to me. That way, I'm perfectly fine with using a basic Logitech or MS optical or laser mouse.
Hmm... I'm considering a Razer lycosa, I can get it for pretty cheap so, is it actually worth it? (since we're talking about razer stuff anyway) or should I go try out the Razer Salmosa. I have the Razer Deathadder and I actually want a lighter mouse for starcraft. Any thoughts?
Logitech MX500/MX518 are good. The Logitech G5 series is essentially an MX518 with weights in it, and a more durable wired cord (embroidered with a high-grade plastic)
I recently bought a Steelseries Kinzu in preparation for SC2, and because I was tired of my wireless logitech mx620.
The Kinzu feels really nice in my hand texture-wise. This is the kind of thing you need to go to a brick and mortar store for, though, because everyones hands and preferences are different.
Also, the Kinzu looks very clean, sleek, and matches the rest of my setup very well.
Another thing I like about the Kinzu is the relatively clean software that steelseries makes available. It lets you store 3 profiles (left or right handed, DPI) in the mouse, so you can take your mouse to another computer, and have the same settings on the mouse without installing the driver.
The Kinzu also has customizable DPI, anywhere from the low DPI settings that many FPSers prefer, to more-twitchy-than-you-need. There is a toggle button on the mouse that lets you change DPI on the fly, so I keep one setting for CSS, and another for SC2.
From what I've read (a lot) the consensus is that DPI above 2 or 2.5k is really not useful, due to the resolutions of modern monitors. Perhaps when we get to 16 : 9 (damn smiley) screens with 3k+ vertical pixels, these ridiculous 5k+ DPI laser mice will be necessary.
Edit: Thought I would add, I narrowed it down to Steelseries Kinzu and Razer Salmosa, but I didn't like the seemingly extra long buttons on the Salmosa. I do appreciate Razer's sponsoring of SC2 tourneys though...
Guys m getting a RAT5, i hope its good ! does anyone here have it ?
I have been playing with a WOLF KING gaming MVP mouse. its pretty good. a bit heavy. i can't say for sure if its the best coz my mouse pad is the worst..(will change it soon) i got it coz it was on sale for like 15$ so..
Though to be frank you don't need a really good mouse to play sc since its not like a fps game where every pixels counts. I used to use a $4 mouse and it was still good.
This is seriously awesome. Had a steel series pad before but this is something extra. I have had alot of different pads in my years of gaming and this beats everything by a lot. I hadn't tested it but read some reviews and it was recommended by Razer to go with my new mouse:
And the two make an amazing couple. I switched to a pure palm grip and cranked my sensitivity up by quite a lot and I could just feel after a couple of games this weekend now how much my control have improved. Just yesterday I found myself thinking "holy crap" when I was in an early rush micro battle and pulled off some sweet moves.
Anyway, two points to this:
1) Don't neglect your mouse pad. 2) No matter what you end up with, good hardware can and will improve your game so play around until you find YOUR combo. The above is mine right now...
It's gotta be better than all your previous gaming pads since Razer recommended it and some reviews claims it to be ! Made me giggle a little inside.
This thread should be renamed to "Which mouse do you currently use/own?" as this is what 95% of the posts are about.
To keep it in that direction, I currently use the Deathadder too and I like it.
I've been using the Deathadder for the past couple of months and to my surprise the mouse is already giving me headaches as the scroll wheel doesn't work properly, it just bounces all over the place. Previously, I used a MX500 for more than 6 years, which I might as well start using again until I buy a new mouse.
I guess I'll just avoid razer altogether, mechanical issues on months old mice are just unforgivable.
Honestly, I dont see the point in buying a fancy gaming mouse. In fact, I use a trackball for all my computer needs, and it works just fine. A gaming mouse would only make sense if you were at the top of the top, and every little extra thing the mouse is better at actually makes a difference.
Until I reach the limits of my trackball, I am not upgrading.
On August 03 2010 21:47 ZAN wrote: Honestly, I dont see the point in buying a fancy gaming mouse. In fact, I use a trackball for all my computer needs, and it works just fine. A gaming mouse would only make sense if you were at the top of the top, and every little extra thing the mouse is better at actually makes a difference.
Until I reach the limits of my trackball, I am not upgrading.
actually most of the people at the top of the top dont use gaming mice. look at all the korean pros... theyre using logitech g1 style mice and $10 keyboards that they know are consistent. same with fps games, although youll see alot more steelseries and razer because of sponsorships; i.e. i think it was team EG who were using ms 3.0 and logitech mx518, then got picked up by steelseries and they all had to use steelseries hardware.
this isnt to say that gaming hardware isnt good, just keep it in perspective- most of the time the extra cost is for gimmicks (higher dpi does *not* make your mouse more accurate) and alot of top players prefer to use tried and true mice that dont cost anywhere near as much, and usually only use newer "gaming" hardware because of sponsorships or ergonomic issues.
On August 03 2010 21:47 ZAN wrote: Honestly, I dont see the point in buying a fancy gaming mouse. In fact, I use a trackball for all my computer needs, and it works just fine. A gaming mouse would only make sense if you were at the top of the top, and every little extra thing the mouse is better at actually makes a difference.
Until I reach the limits of my trackball, I am not upgrading.
actually most of the people at the top of the top dont use gaming mice. look at all the korean pros... theyre using logitech g1 style mice and $10 keyboards that they know are consistent. same with fps games, although youll see alot more steelseries and razer because of sponsorships; i.e. i think it was team EG who were using ms 3.0 and logitech mx518, then got picked up by steelseries and they all had to use steelseries hardware.
this isnt to say that gaming hardware isnt good, just keep it in perspective- most of the time the extra cost is for gimmicks (higher dpi does *not* make your mouse more accurate) and alot of top players prefer to use tried and true mice that dont cost anywhere near as much, and usually only use newer "gaming" hardware because of sponsorships or ergonomic issues.
That is pretty much along the same lines as what I was thinking. I see no reason to go out and buy an expensive mouse that you THINK works better than the one you have.
The only reason "gaming"mice sell is because people want to be able to call themselves true gamers because they have the "best" hardware.
As the top-level Koreans with $10 keyboards have shown us, hardware does not matter. What matters is skill.
I go with a lot of other people on this thread.. Just use what you find comfortable. I use a freaking WoW mouse, because I honestly can't find a mouse that feels natural to me. The WoW mouse is clunky, ridiculously huge, and most people that play on my computer hate it's electronic guts: But I still am very comfortable with playing with it.
On August 04 2010 05:18 Melt wrote: Oldschool Logitech MX518. Been using it forever and it's just great (and really cheap now for a gaming mouse).
I'm really curious how good the razer spectre really is. It doesn't really look ergonomic, but otherwise it could be nice.
I was looking for a new mouse to replace my old MX518 recently then I stumbled across some sites that talked about how nice the MX518 is for gaming. So I went on Amazon and bought a new one to replace the one I have. I LOVE the feel of that mouse and have never had a single bad thing to say about it ever. Very excited that it's such a nice mouse and that I'll be getting a new one within the week!
people need to realize they just need to pick a mouse and stick with it. a $10 mouse and a $100 mouse are pretty much the same. I used to use a stock Logitech mouse for competitive FPS. I actually won a razer mouse at a tournament that was like really expensive. But it didn't matter, I was used to the cheap one. "dpi" and tech has nothing to do with performance if you are used to something cheap. The whole point of a mouse is to do what you want it to do. If you can do that as well as you want, then I don't see the problem with a cheap mouse.
RTS probably require a hell of a lot less accuracy than an FPS (before I get flamed, read that line again)
I had a standard logitech before it died, and I loved it.
I bought a "gamer" mouse, the Steelseries Ikari but this mouse is just not made for me, way too big for my grip. After I learned that there are different grip ! I'm more of a claw grip I guess (this mouse is for palm grip)
On August 09 2010 12:38 Predateur wrote: I had a standard logitech before it died, and I loved it.
I bought a "gamer" mouse, the Steelseries Ikari but this mouse is just not made for me, way too big for my grip. After I learned that there are different grip ! I'm more of a claw grip I guess (this mouse is for palm grip)
Hopefully this one will fit well ! Thanks for the advices guys
Excellent choice. the Salmosa is soooooooo amazing, especially for sc2. With claw grip the thing is a rocket ship Everythings just that much easier using this mouse. Its precise, light, and fast so essentially it makes you better at sc2 in every way
Logitech MX 518 gets my vote. Ive even repaired my lead twice. Ive used it so much it has no pads on the bottom no label on the back and the plastic where the light thingy is is starting to rub. i simply wont part with it until its unusable.!! Cheap as too really.
just like how in mice you really should just look for tracking performance (which is actually never listed anywhere ) and ergonomics depending on your grip
I use a Razer Imperator, but that's because i've just transitioned from competitive FPS to SC2...
Either way, it is still a phenomenal mouse if you can afford it - being able to change DPI on the fly is great, i use around 4000 DPI when playing SC2 as it allows me to get to different units quicker and micro better, also seems to put less strain on my wrist having a higher DPI.
I personally can't use a standard optical mouse anymore, find it too slow and inaccurate even with standard Windows use!
I think all this new hardware with 9000+ DPI is going a little bit overboard. I have had mice that have had high DPI settings but find them to be way too sensitive for my liking. I had an MX518 until just a few days ago from when I used to play CS competitively and I was a fan of low sensitivity and big sweeping movements of my arm while playing because it gave me a lot more precision in aiming.
I haven't really changed my sensitivity preferences but I've moved on from my MX518 to a G500 because the wire was getting messed up after 6-7 years of heavy use. I like the G500 and it's a nice new toy with fancy features, but I don't think you're going to find a mouse better than the MX518.
The Razer DeathAdder is very solid, the sensor is prolly the best on the market. It is pretty heavy tho and is slightly awkward on the right side, so make sure ur into that sort of mice be4 deciding on it.
I for one am getting the Heaton EC1 mouse which is due mid august, hopefully this'll be slightly lighter and better shape wise. If this doesn't satisfy I'm definitely getting the SteelSeries Xai.
in my opinion i like the razer series, right now im using the imperator, easily one of the best over all gaming mice i have ever purchased
the side buttons are adjustable it has a nice feel two little buttons for adjusting mouse speed on the fly (which you can program 5 speeds to switch to) 5600dpi, gold plated usb, nice cord, get this for around $70.00] + Show Spoiler +
Starcraft 2 is not BW!!!! BW was on 640x480 resolution that means if you had mouse with 800 DPI you needed 0,8 inch to move pointer from left to right on the screen, so if you want to keep this ratio in Starcraft 2 with 1680x1050 you need mouse with 2100 DPI (2475 DPI for 1980x1200 resolution).
You cannot play Starcraft 2 1980x1200 resolution with 400 DPI mouse because you will have move 5 inches to go from right to left side of screen.
Also Starcraft 2 uses third mouse button to push drag screen, some may find it very useful.
i use the deathadder but honestly you can be good with any mouse..and its really preference..any high end laser/optical mouse from razer/logitech will do
The 3.0 is an amazing mouse, and one that I've used for many years. However, for StarCraft 2, if you're going to play in a resolution above 800x600, you will unfortunately need a higher DPI mouse. I've had to swap to my G1 for the mean-time because Windows sensitivity doesn't cut it (causing pixel-skipping and hence kills precision).
Over the years i've used a ton of mice of different brands, but G5 is the one I always go back to. It's just the most comfortable, and I loved on-the-fly DPI switching.
Best all-around mouse to me period, MX518 would be second choice.
Hey guys, what do you think about the Razer Abyssus? Right now i have the Microsoft Sidewinder X3. I really like tinyer mices like the abyssus but i don't know if it's any good for starcraft2...I've seen the razer deathadder is only +15€ but its too big for my taste. The Kinzu is an option too, but i've read it has acceleration problems(?).
Help me please.
PD: The abyssus is 33€ here in spain, the deathadder is 47€ and the kinzu is 36€.
On August 19 2010 19:44 escruting wrote: Hey guys, what do you think about the Razer Abyssus? Right now i have the Microsoft Sidewinder X3. I really like tinyer mices like the abyssus but i don't know if it's any good for starcraft2...I've seen the razer deathadder is only +15€ but its too big for my taste. The Kinzu is an option too, but i've read it has problems of acceleration(?).
Help me please.
PD: The abyssus is 33€ here in spain, the deathadder is 47€ and the kinzu is 36€.
Hey!
I bought the Abyssus a while ago and I love it. For me way better than the MS 3.0 and deathadder. It's perfect for claw crip if you like pretty small mice. I bought it with the Razer Sphex mouse pad btw, imo excellent combination.
What really proves that I like it is that I bought the exact same combination for my computer at my parents' without even thinking twice
im using a razer deathadder atm and its pretty good..its a bit bulky on the palm because it has a slightly big hump so im probally gonna go to the g9 because i really love the shape of the mouse..but as of right now its a big expensive.
On August 19 2010 19:44 escruting wrote: Hey guys, what do you think about the Razer Abyssus? Right now i have the Microsoft Sidewinder X3. I really like tinyer mices like the abyssus but i don't know if it's any good for starcraft2...I've seen the razer deathadder is only +15€ but its too big for my taste. The Kinzu is an option too, but i've read it has acceleration problems(?).
Help me please.
PD: The abyssus is 33€ here in spain, the deathadder is 47€ and the kinzu is 36€.
The Abyssus is an excellent mouse. Spiritual successor to the Salmosa.
Just bought a Kinzu and am not happy with it. Their is a pixel skipping issue when running at 1600 CPI which as "peppermintschnaps" has commented on "is probably unfixable". This basicly means you cant run 1600 CPI with mouse acceleration disabled, it a huge deal in my eyes and i'm wondering how this mouse gets so much praise when it has such a huge pixel skipping software/hardware issue such as this.
The design is to short for my liking, if your a player who likes to rest his palm on the mouse (as i do), imo i found this mouse to short and very very unfortable to hold after a prolonged period of time.
the intellimouse is what i have and it's definitely money well spent. my gaming experience has increase so much since i bought it and a 17x15 mouse pad
I am looking into buying a new mouse. I have had my Logitech MX510 for 5 years (in its 6th) now and it has been awesome. But, it is starting to show its age. The rubber thingies have all come off the bottom and it occasionally skips and doesn't track properly. So I'm looking for recommendations. :D I may just get another Logitech mouse because this one has been so good. I have been looking at the Microsoft Sidewinder X8 however. What do you guys think?
On August 21 2010 21:58 Tharros wrote: I am looking into buying a new mouse. I have had my Logitech MX510 for 5 years (in its 6th) now and it has been awesome. But, it is starting to show its age. The rubber thingies have all come off the bottom and it occasionally skips and doesn't track properly. So I'm looking for recommendations. :D I may just get another Logitech mouse because this one has been so good. I have been looking at the Microsoft Sidewinder X8 however. What do you guys think?
BTW, I have relatively big hands.
I have big hands too and I'm strongly considering buying the Madcatz/Cyborg RAT 7. Just because I'm tired of trying to conform to someone else's design. I used to have an old logitech gaming mouse (aka Mouseman 3) and loved that thing, unfortunately nobody makes mice like that anymore.
I'm worried a bit about the weight of the RAT though, anyone know how incredibly heavy it is?
for those in canada, deathadder is sold at 45$ at futureshop until august 26. And the replacement guarantee is 9.99$ for 2 years.. therefore they'll replace ur mouse if it dies for any reason for the next 2 years all that for around 60$.
Stay away from Kinzu, it's the worst mouse I ever had. It only works reliably at 400 DPI, anything higher and the ridiculously invasive prediction kicks in, on higher DPI settings it is absolutely unusable.
The new 3500 DPI DeathAdder is pretty good, at least it's honest about its DPI and there is no prediction.
Salmosa is very good too, if you prefer a smaller mouse. It has prediction, but it is not as stupid as in in Kinzu.
On August 21 2010 22:09 phamou wrote: I just bought deathadder (got it really cheap).
for those in canada, deathadder is sold at 45$ at futureshop until august 26. And the replacement guarantee is 9.99$ for 2 years.. therefore they'll replace ur mouse if it dies for any reason for the next 2 years all that for around 60$.
Got it for $30 at Canada Computers. It's a really nice mouse, but you really don't need it for Starcraft 2. It won't limit you until you've reached the best you can possibly be at, in mechanics and strategy.
On August 21 2010 22:09 phamou wrote: I just bought deathadder (got it really cheap).
for those in canada, deathadder is sold at 45$ at futureshop until august 26. And the replacement guarantee is 9.99$ for 2 years.. therefore they'll replace ur mouse if it dies for any reason for the next 2 years all that for around 60$.
Got it for $30 at Canada Computers. It's a really nice mouse, but you really don't need it for Starcraft 2. It won't limit you until you've reached the best you can possibly be at, in mechanics and strategy.
I don't agree. While strategy and mechanics are far more important, having a comfortable mouse and great precision with it is ALWAS good, no matter your level
I advise you to use the SteelSeries KINZU. The XAI is laser one but laser isnt good for RTS imo. the Kinzu is smaller and optical, really good for Star2 honnestly!
Quick Heads up! if anyone needs a new gaming mouse but doesnt have the money.. refurbished deathadder for 19.99 + 4.99 shipping http://wireless.1saleaday.com/ think its for today only.. that kills the normal price of 50ish. I got one for a backup since its so cheap
I bought the kinzu and the prediction built into the mouse makes it a headache to use, currently at 800/400 dpi its playable but yeah, i like the look and feel of the mouse in my hand just a shame about the prediction
On another note i was wondering if anyone with the abyssus can comment on the mouse pads , after googling i read it jitters on certain mousepads, im really keen for the abyssus and have a steelseries qck mini mousepad will it be alright to play sc2 with it on that ?
I just received my Salmosa asian edition, I was suprised at start since it's so small ! big change with my last mouse that was Palm grip. After a few hours with it I can say it's a very fast and accurate mouse.
I have the DPI set at 1800 and windows mouse speed at 6/11, however, I find it a bit fast, will pulling it a 5/11 be okay ? I heard you need to always put it at 6/11 in windows for pixel skipping or something.. Thanks!
On August 25 2010 05:15 Predateur wrote: I just received my Salmosa asian edition, I was suprised at start since it's so small ! big change with my last mouse that was Palm grip. After a few hours with it I can say it's a very fast and accurate mouse.
I have the DPI set at 1800 and windows mouse speed at 6/11, however, I find it a bit fast, will pulling it a 5/11 be okay ? I heard you need to always put it at 6/11 in windows for pixel skipping or something.. Thanks!
Just decrease your DPI. Higher dpi will make your mouse faster too. Don't change the 6/11.
I didn't install any program to change the DPI so I don't think i can do that.
I have a switch on the back on the mouse for 800 or 1800DPI I don't want 800DPI since it's too slow at 6/11, and for me 1800DPI seems a bit fast for what i'm used too. (had a 1400 DPI mouse before this one). Or i could get used to 6/11, but 5/11 seems better for me.
I think it's behind 3/11 or 4/11 that the mouse start to skip pixel, i'll be fine at 5/11 i guess thanks for all the advices guys, this mouse is awesome !
fuck. this. mouse. SOOO expensive. It's a great mouse and all but it's not worth all that money.
Anyway back on topic, I loved my IME (or whatever not sure about the acronym) 3.0. My problems are that the 400 dpi is not enough for me. Even on 11/11 it wasn't up to my liking. Other than that, it's probably the comfiest feeling mouse I've ever owned. It served me very well into CAL IM for CS and it's overall a great mouse especially for shooters.
I think that diamondbacks/copperheads and whatnot are better for RTS games? Perhaps thats just me but I find that higher DPIs are more important for RTS games as your hands are quite a bit busier than in FPS.
Could use some advice. The thing is I use the palm grip and I have very big hands so what I'm looking for is a mouse that's as big as possible really. I have an MX518 at the moment and it's a great mouse but it's a bit too small for me, I haven't had a really comfortable mouse since the original Intellimouse Explorer. Does anyone make a gaming mouse that big? I need about 1400 dpi at least.
have a intellimouse and a razer diamondback. the razer works nicely for fps because i rarely ever lift the mouse off the pad in fps, but the balance distribution of the intellimouse is so much better when it comes to rts.
On August 19 2010 20:05 DreXxiN wrote: I have a Razer Orochi and I toooootally love it.
I also have a Razer Orochi and I highly recommend it. Like many other Razer mice this one can be used wireless (though with Bluetooth for this particular model) or wired (for higher resolution tracking). It's very portable and comes with it's own carry case. It also stores button configurations in on-board memory so that you can plug it into any PC and keep your settings.
It's pretty small though, so if you're used to using big mice or palm-grip then I'd avoid it. Excellent for finger/claw style grips and it's very light in wired mode (in wireless mode the weight increases due to the batteries). I prefer the precision that using a finger-style grip allows, but you've got to find what works for you.
Haven't tried any of the other specialist mouse brands but I'm very happy with the purchase I've made. Razer also have a mouse selection guide on their website if you're interested in finding a mouse that suits your play style.
On August 25 2010 09:19 angerpowered wrote: I have a razer mamba.
was it worth it?
fuck. this. mouse. SOOO expensive. It's a great mouse and all but it's not worth all that money.
Funny, I have the mamba as well, and I find it worth every penny. It cut down on my carpal tunnel pains, and that by it self is worth twice what the mouse actually cost (used to use a logitech mx500 or something like that, heavy as a brick) the mamba was really light and slides quite nicely.
One thing i have been wondering though, i have the right side buttons bound to 0 and 9, so i dont need to move my left hand quite as far up the keyboard. But this relies on the mouse driver application, would that be allowed in tournaments like MLG were it states that no 3rd party applications can be used?
On June 16 2010 19:10 iNty.sCream wrote: if you have the money get a "ikari" from SteelSeries, the best mouse i ever had. overall.
Bought an "ikari laser" a few months back, and im very very happy with it. Love the grip and the buttons, and its not SUPER expensive.
My ikari laser broke after just 3 months. So I switched to the optical one. Although that doesn't mean anything just because mine broke, i just got paranoid and bought the optical one the next time and it works perfect.
regardless of my bad luck I too have a Ikari and I love the shape of it!
Anybody know where to find the Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 Black in Canada? I found it on Amazon.com but it won't ship to Canada... every other place is out of stock or the item is deactivated (Newegg.ca etc).
On August 31 2010 22:09 Azide wrote: Anybody know where to find the Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 Black in Canada? I found it on Amazon.com but it won't ship to Canada... every other place is out of stock or the item is deactivated (Newegg.ca etc).
Thanks!
Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 has all 400dpi, it isn't enough for sc2.
I can really recommend the Revoltec FightMouse Pro. It's pretty cheap (around 30e) and I think it's pretty good, too. So maybe u wanna check that out since not a lot of people know of this mouse. Edit: Would also recommend getting a decent mousepad. I have the Razor Destructor which was 30e (as much as my mouse and its really good. But I don't think that is applicable in your case, so just get some gaming mousepad for 10$, I think u wont regret it since the tracking is usually nicer and the surface more 'stable' in regards to traction than playing on ur table or a regular mousepad.
Im using a semi-expensive wireless logitech... I like it a lot. The shape and it's really smooth, but I don't suggest getting wireless... it can skip sometimes.
I've gone through a TON of gaming mice in my day, use them heavily in both SC2/BW and competitive FPS play (mainly CS 1.6, FPS players tend to be very picky about their mice and that includes myself).
Now before I go on to recommendations, keep in mind I play at a very low sensitivity, and my ingame scroll speed is only at 30%. I use 400 DPI sensitivity, 7/11 Windows sensitivity, registry fix to disable all mouse acceleration, and ingame I use 50% sensitivity (and 3.0 in CS 1.6 for any FPS players). This results in a good drag about halfway across my 12" wide mousepad to cross the entire screen (full mousepad to 360 in FPS games).
All that being said, my 3 favorite mice I've ever used are the 3.0, MX518, and the DeathAdder.
The DeathAdder and 3.0 actually feel very similar, at least to me, and are both very sturdily built, but I find they're best suited to a person with small to medium sized hands. The MX518 is built like a tank and is built for medium to large handed people. I have fairly large hands and prefer the MX518 by quite a bit over the other 2.
I would rank them like this:
1. MX518 2. DeathAdder 3. 3.0
The DA is only ahead of the 3.0 because it looks awesome, and it has a notched scroll wheel, which only makes a difference in FPS games and only for people who use scroll wheel to jump. Otherwise it's a tie between those two.
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
mini optical and prolly a DT35, both are garbage for sc2
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
I believe it is the Logitech mini optical... really cheap. like a few bucks if you know where to go.
Keyboard? For all I know I could safely assume it's the SEM DT-35. Hell I'm pretty sure it is. Cost around $30 in some sites (without shipping). Solid keyboard I heard. Otherwise a standard wired keyboard would do if you're on budget.
I got this thing for free with my msi gx720. Goes up to 3200 dpi, has a button for changing the side buttom macros and a button for changing dpi which is coded based on the color of the scroll wheel, you can add up to 7 weights into it as well. also the colors match my laptop
one question I have, do those frictionless "gaming surfaces" that seem to sell for downright stupid prices actually make a difference in how well you play or not?
On September 03 2010 14:25 SilverWolfe wrote: Don't know how easy this is to obtain but:
I got this thing for free with my msi gx720. Goes up to 3200 dpi, has a button for changing the side buttom macros and a button for changing dpi which is coded based on the color of the scroll wheel, you can add up to 7 weights into it as well. also the colors match my laptop
one question I have, do those frictionless "gaming surfaces" that seem to sell for downright stupid prices actually make a difference in how well you play or not?
I have a very similar looking WOLF kings mouse (no weights though) its a bit heavy but still very good !!
also for your question on gaming surface. i would have to stay it depends ! if you have a medium sized mousepads and the mouse is pretty good in precision (no flickering of the mouse on scree etc.) then your good.
if you have a small mouse, then id say upgrading to a good gaming surface is a good choice. for like 10-20$ max.
On September 02 2010 05:11 sektr wrote: I've gone through a TON of gaming mice in my day, use them heavily in both SC2/BW and competitive FPS play (mainly CS 1.6, FPS players tend to be very picky about their mice and that includes myself).
Now before I go on to recommendations, keep in mind I play at a very low sensitivity, and my ingame scroll speed is only at 30%. I use 400 DPI sensitivity, 7/11 Windows sensitivity, registry fix to disable all mouse acceleration, and ingame I use 50% sensitivity (and 3.0 in CS 1.6 for any FPS players). This results in a good drag about halfway across my 12" wide mousepad to cross the entire screen (full mousepad to 360 in FPS games).
All that being said, my 3 favorite mice I've ever used are the 3.0, MX518, and the DeathAdder.
The DeathAdder and 3.0 actually feel very similar, at least to me, and are both very sturdily built, but I find they're best suited to a person with small to medium sized hands. The MX518 is built like a tank and is built for medium to large handed people. I have fairly large hands and prefer the MX518 by quite a bit over the other 2.
I would rank them like this:
1. MX518 2. DeathAdder 3. 3.0
The DA is only ahead of the 3.0 because it looks awesome, and it has a notched scroll wheel, which only makes a difference in FPS games and only for people who use scroll wheel to jump. Otherwise it's a tie between those two.
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
mini optical and prolly a DT35, both are garbage for sc2
DT35 is fine, but yeah Mini Optical is absolute trash for SC2 — and BW in my opinion, but people are blind to progamer fanboyism. And FWIW I have two of them (bought the second after wondering if perhaps the horrible sensor was just a fault with that particular mouse, but it certainly wasn't.
ive recently bought this one. ive used the ms intellimouse - which i really liked - and some logitech mouses before - which i didnt like. this one is by far the best mouse ive used so far
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
mini optical and prolly a DT35, both are garbage for sc2
is their a noticeable problem with the mini optical in sc2?
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
mini optical and prolly a DT35, both are garbage for sc2
is their a noticeable problem with the mini optical in sc2?
I think he is referring to the DPI being too low. If you want mouse acceleration OFF with 1:1 pixel precision you need 1600+ DPI for a solid sensitivity that won't hold you back.
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
mini optical and prolly a DT35, both are garbage for sc2
is their a noticeable problem with the mini optical in sc2?
I think he is referring to the DPI being too low. If you want mouse acceleration OFF with 1:1 pixel precision you need 1600+ DPI for a solid sensitivity that won't hold you back.
Well IdrA uses Mini OP, and he doesn't find it hinders his performance, ^_^ so case closed //
Guys, what mouse does come closest to the good old MS IntelliMouse optical 1.1? Currently I'm on vacation and I had the chance to touch my IM 1.1 again and it feels so sooo damn good. The well placed side buttons and the good and simple overall shape are addictive as hell. Unfortunately 400 DPI aren't enough anymore for playing SC2.
I couldn't get used to the Razer Salmosa, it just didn't suits well.
So what mouse would you recommend IM 1.1 lovers? Sadly there aren't many Fingertip Grip mices out there to try.
On September 04 2010 23:00 Duscha wrote: Guys, what mouse does come closest to the good old MS IntelliMouse optical 1.1? Currently I'm on vacation and I had the chance to touch my IM 1.1 again and it feels so sooo damn good. The well placed side buttons and the good and simple overall shape are addictive as hell. Unfortunately 400 DPI aren't enough anymore for playing SC2.
I couldn't get used to the Razer Salmosa, it just didn't suits well.
So what mouse would you recommend IM 1.1 lovers? Sadly there aren't many Fingertip Grip mices out there to try.
Thank you!
I used to love that exact mouse and switched to the Salmosa - it is flawless. Why do you not like it? Do you play FPS as well? because for RTS, the Salmosa is amazing - especially for fingertip gamers.
It took me a day to get used to, I love it - just perfect.
On September 03 2010 13:53 Falco252 wrote: Hi, I'm trying to change my game gear for very cheap, so I found this. Does someone knows the name of this mouse ? And this Keyboard?
Or any good mices for cheap, at first page I saw that
Thanks
mini optical and prolly a DT35, both are garbage for sc2
is their a noticeable problem with the mini optical in sc2?
I think he is referring to the DPI being too low. If you want mouse acceleration OFF with 1:1 pixel precision you need 1600+ DPI for a solid sensitivity that won't hold you back.
Well IdrA uses Mini OP, and he doesn't find it hinders his performance, ^_^ so case closed //
mini optical is still the best mouse of this universe
started using it again now and i dont miss my razer diamondback
On September 04 2010 23:00 Duscha wrote: Guys, what mouse does come closest to the good old MS IntelliMouse optical 1.1? Currently I'm on vacation and I had the chance to touch my IM 1.1 again and it feels so sooo damn good. The well placed side buttons and the good and simple overall shape are addictive as hell. Unfortunately 400 DPI aren't enough anymore for playing SC2.
I couldn't get used to the Razer Salmosa, it just didn't suits well.
So what mouse would you recommend IM 1.1 lovers? Sadly there aren't many Fingertip Grip mices out there to try.
Thank you!
I used to love that exact mouse and switched to the Salmosa - it is flawless. Why do you not like it? Do you play FPS as well? because for RTS, the Salmosa is amazing - especially for fingertip gamers.
It took me a day to get used to, I love it - just perfect.
I used the Salmosa for RTS purpose only. The handling between thumb and pinkie just didn't felt as smooth as with IM 1.1. Stiff would be the correct expression of the feeling.
On September 04 2010 23:00 Duscha wrote: Guys, what mouse does come closest to the good old MS IntelliMouse optical 1.1? Currently I'm on vacation and I had the chance to touch my IM 1.1 again and it feels so sooo damn good. The well placed side buttons and the good and simple overall shape are addictive as hell. Unfortunately 400 DPI aren't enough anymore for playing SC2.
I couldn't get used to the Razer Salmosa, it just didn't suits well.
So what mouse would you recommend IM 1.1 lovers? Sadly there aren't many Fingertip Grip mices out there to try.
Thank you!
This has always been my favorite mouse. The Steelseries Xai and Kinzu have close to the same feel as the 1.1 just with a little more weight. I only bought the Xai because some review sites compared it to the 1.1, and I'm happy with it.
I had the MS 3.0 for a long time and it's a good mouse, but I don't feel like it holds a candle to my Razer Abyssus in RTS games... Is the 1.1 somewhat similar to the 3.0 or? If so, I don't get why you like it so much
On September 05 2010 03:15 Jenslyn87 wrote: I had the MS 3.0 for a long time and it's a good mouse, but I don't feel like it holds a candle to my Razer Abyssus in RTS games... Is the 1.1 somewhat similar to the 3.0 or? If so, I don't get why you like it so much
The 3.0 has a different feel to it. It's a lot wider than the 1.1 and has an indent on the side for your thump to rest. The 3.0 is my brothers favorite mouse. I think I like the 1.1 most because of its skinny shape. Obviously there are mice smaller and skinner then it, but its got a good feel for me.
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
I got the steelseries kinzu, after tester the iem, the deathadder, the g1... And wow kinzu is really over the top, this mouse is perfect, cant find any default
On September 16 2010 15:04 Stark838 wrote: using this one.. the height and width perfect for fingertip/claw gripping. tracks perfectly at 1600dpi as well.
I'm using this one too. I don't know if you'll believe me but this thing even makes you feel the difference in windows. I can say it is the same quality and about the same price as an abyssus.
The lights on it can be a bit annoying but you can shut them off if you want.
any mouse with prediction isn't a specifically good gaming mouse, because it's inaccurate. it doesn't mean they're bad mice or that you won't like them or be able to use them well, but they're technically inaccurate.
kinzu has prediction issues (though the xai doesn't, and i don't believe the ikari does either). mx518 has pretty noticeable prediction as well, as will most logitech g mice. ime 3.0 won't.
On September 04 2010 23:00 Duscha wrote: Guys, what mouse does come closest to the good old MS IntelliMouse optical 1.1? Currently I'm on vacation and I had the chance to touch my IM 1.1 again and it feels so sooo damn good. The well placed side buttons and the good and simple overall shape are addictive as hell. Unfortunately 400 DPI aren't enough anymore for playing SC2.
I couldn't get used to the Razer Salmosa, it just didn't suits well.
So what mouse would you recommend IM 1.1 lovers? Sadly there aren't many Fingertip Grip mices out there to try.
Thank you!
omg best mouse ever in the world, after that mouse went ouf of the market i went crazy... tried to buy something new but everything was shitty.
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
It's probably been mentioned (it certainly has been discussed), but disabling mouse acceleration via patching/disabling and turning on "reduce mouse lag" in-game will show more direct results than any variance of DPI/build in the new mouse you get. Obviously, set your sensitivities accordingly. As an ex-FPS player (CS1.6), I can assure you I noticed a huge difference.
I do all kinds of gaming, and the razer naga has been the best of the bunch for me. I love it in starcraft, because it puts all the control groups at my thumb, and with a little practice, is faster than a keyboard.
was expensive, but I also do FPS games a LOT, where a good mouse matters as well. So for me, a good mouse and pad is worth the moneys
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
I use a logitech mini optical with the weight removed. Removing the weight makes it ULTRA light so I can play for hours and have no aches in my hand. I wonder what other mods I could do for it.
But I use a really cheap crappy mousepad. Anybody have some suggestions that would work well for me?
I have a Logitech mini-optical mouse. About $20 AUD, iirc. It moves when I tell it too. It has two click buttons and a scroll wheel, all of which work. And it's relatively comfortable. Good enough for me.
Although, playing Starcraft with an Apple-manufactured mouse is funny.
I use Razer Deathadder 3G Infared with Razer Mousepad - smooth as butter, and never skips. Using latest firmware. Not sure why others have had issues with it skipping. I've used Razer for 5 years and been thoroughly pleased with each purchase.
It's amazing how many of them haven't tried the others mice. They just go like "I'm using X and I'm pretty happy with it so far". That means every mouse would do good. Just get the one that fit perfectly with ur hands and don't bother with everything else.
It comes to : fit > cheap > look.
Like i said on the others mice thread, i hate razer. Haven't tried abysus or salmosa yet, but judging from its appearance it seems like the deathadder which isn't bad but isn't better as any mx5XX mice for instance.
I really loved the intellimouse. Haven't tried kinzu nor kai but if it's almost the same shape then i'd go for it without any regrets.
haven't read through all the pages.. but logitech mx518 is as solid of a mouse as youll need for pretty much any gaming.
mousepad is also an issue. if you only play online and at home, use what you feel comfortable with.. be it bare desk or mousepad. if you compete, youll want to get a mousepad setup youre comfortable with because youll want to play on the same surface with the same mouse / mouse settings if you play on LAN
On September 29 2010 16:32 RaiZ wrote: It's amazing how many of them haven't tried the others mice. They just go like "I'm using X and I'm pretty happy with it so far". That means every mouse would do good. Just get the one that fit perfectly with ur hands and don't bother with everything else.
It comes to : fit > cheap > look.
Like i said on the others mice thread, i hate razer. Haven't tried abysus or salmosa yet, but judging from its appearance it seems like the deathadder which isn't bad but isn't better as any mx5XX mice for instance.
I really loved the intellimouse. Haven't tried kinzu nor kai but if it's almost the same shape then i'd go for it without any regrets.
I agree actually. I've tried Microsoft, Logitech, Steelseries, and some other less noteworthy brands, and finally most recently Razer. Personally Razer I've had the best experience with in terms of comfort for extended periods, responsiveness for technology level, reliability, and durability (I press my buttons hard). That isn't to say Razer is 'the best' just pick a price-range in your mind, then go to the store, try each mouse in your hand and see which feels most comfortable, then once you've narrowed it down to three or five that fit your hand nicely read the specs and and narrow further, then finally pick the one you like the look of the most.
I like the Deathadder as per my previous post mostly because its one of the most comfortable right-hand only mice I've used. I find the thumb space in Microsoft mice too big, and the palm bulge on Logitech mice too high, the Deathadder seems to have it just right at least for my hand.
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
G1 Has a prediction?
It does, but all other factors considered it's my best option for now. I also have a Ktec 9500+ but that seems to skip pixels :/
The MX 518 is a so called gaming mouse. The official title of it is: Logitech MX 518 Gaming-Grade Optical Mouse.
It's also no more expensive than some razer mice such as the Abyssus which is great for RTS. The diamondback and deathadders are also similarly priced to the mx518.
I haven't had any problems with skipping or anything on my Abyssus so *shrug*.
On October 01 2010 00:57 stafu wrote:It does, but all other factors considered it's my best option for now. I also have a Ktec 9500+ but that seems to skip pixels :/
Clearly much. What do you think mx518 good mouse for sc2? I know that Brat_OK plays on that
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
Yeah, it's not good with a QcK. If you switch to a newer cloth pad like a Goliathus Control, it's got basically perfect tracking though. It's also flawless on my 5L. Haven't tried mTw/dkt pad.
On October 01 2010 00:57 stafu wrote:It does, but all other factors considered it's my best option for now. I also have a Ktec 9500+ but that seems to skip pixels :/
Clearly much. What do you think mx518 good mouse for sc2? I know that Brat_OK plays on that
It really just depends on the shape and if you like it for RTS style movements. The MX518 is an excellent mouse though. I preferred it for FPSes though (before it broke.)
On June 16 2010 19:16 dbddbddb wrote: you dont need a fancy 200 dollar mouse, just get a good one like the logitech g1 it's very cheap now and works great for rts.
I'm also using the old G1 logitech for all games I play, although it's getting very hard to find in France. For me the most important aspect for a mouse is how comfortable I feel while holding it, and the very simple design of the G1 has been the best for me. I believe any recent laser mouse will have enough "precision" especially for an RTS so it is really a matter of personal preference.
Over the years I have used several Razor mice (the diamondback most notably) and several microsoft and logitech mice, and even for FPS games (I play with low res 1024*768 at most) I've always prioritized the shape and "feel" when buying a new mouse.
I also think that the mousepad is almost as important as the mouse, I'm using a QPAD CT which feels very good for me.
ive had 3 or 4 consecutive microsoft intellimice (left mouse button wears out after around 1,5 years for me)
now i switched to razer and im really satisified with my new razer imperator. initially i bought a razer lachesis but didnt like that at all, had to bring it back to the shop. lachesis has a total different feel compared to the intellimouse since its so flat and not ergonomic at all imho. the imperator however is really really sweet and also looks way cooler than the intellimouse... costs almost double what the microsoft model does, but im hoping it will also last longer than the usual 1,5 years my intellimice last me...
i dunno about accuracy, but i turned up my mouse speed quite a bit now that im using razer. the main improvement was getting an actual mousepad tho, i used some plastic surface before and it was hard moving the mouse tiny amounts since it would stick to the surface a little, now its all very smooth and my apm increased from 60ish to 80ish
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
Yeah, it's not good with a QcK. If you switch to a newer cloth pad like a Goliathus Control, it's got basically perfect tracking though. It's also flawless on my 5L. Haven't tried mTw/dkt pad.
Nice, I'll keep that in mind. 5L actually looks really good!
I had a Razer Deathadder.. it was good, but only lasted for a bit over a year.. fits about right with the description I hear of other Razer products (low quality overpriced crap with lights attached)
I'm currently using a Logitech G9. The quality is superb, but the ergonomics aren't that good..
On October 01 2010 01:42 CynicalTubby wrote: Razer Deathadder. Great mouse. Well worth the price and it fits my hand perfectly. I can't imagine myself using any other mouse.
I hope you're right, because I just bought one off of Woot and it should be here tomorrow. :D
In my personal opinion, the skill of the player doesn't really lie in the mouse. Alot of FPS require you to have a fancy, high precision mouse (measured in Dots per inch) to be somewhat competent. However in Starcraft you can definitely be good w/o a fancy gaming mouse. ANYTHING works. You'll find if you stick with your mouse, it will never actually slow you down, but switching mice will. What I recommend is a macroboard. I use the logitech G13 gameboard which alot of those WoW players use. Its great for grid system key layouts, and you can add group control and shift, ctr, alt and all that good stuff. Yeah like everybody said RTS do not need fancy mice, but a fancy keyboard never hurt
On October 01 2010 12:54 itsdoubleD wrote: In my personal opinion, the skill of the player doesn't really lie in the mouse. Alot of FPS require you to have a fancy, high precision mouse (measured in Dots per inch) to be somewhat competent. However in Starcraft you can definitely be good w/o a fancy gaming mouse. ANYTHING works. You'll find if you stick with your mouse, it will never actually slow you down, but switching mice will. What I recommend is a macroboard. I use the logitech G13 gameboard which alot of those WoW players use. Its great for grid system key layouts, and you can add group control and shift, ctr, alt and all that good stuff. Yeah like everybody said RTS do not need fancy mice, but a fancy keyboard never hurt
everyone here already knows this. the whole point of the thread is to talk about which mice right now have the best sensors that dont skip/jitter/etc and which ones are most comfortable. the latter is subjective of course.
I just bought a DeathAdder about a month ago, and it's been quite a difference for me. I'm used to playing with an old Dell ball mouse that I found in my buddy's closet.... From the limited experience I have with Razer and SteelSeries mice (one of my friends uses a Mamba and another the Xai), I much prefer the Razer sensor. It seems much more stable to me, and I like the liftoff distance of the Razer more.
The DA isn't a great ergonomic fit for me, since I use mainly a fingertip grip and I have small hands - if I were to purchase a Razer again, I'd probably get an Abyssus to fit my hand size.
If you're looking for a new mouse, just make sure you find one that fits your grip, hand size, and wallet. Brand really doesn't matter too much, as long as you like it. For example, I believe Savior and Bisu used to use the Logitech Mini Optical...
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
Yeah, it's not good with a QcK. If you switch to a newer cloth pad like a Goliathus Control, it's got basically perfect tracking though. It's also flawless on my 5L. Haven't tried mTw/dkt pad.
Nice, I'll keep that in mind. 5L actually looks really good!
It's just too big for my tastes, plus I wanted cloth for a bit more portability. That's actually why I got the QcK in the first place, and it was great with an IME3.0, MX518 and Deathadder. Just not the Abyssus. :|
high dpi (or more accurately, cpi) is SO overrated. The best thing you can do is get a teflon mouse pad if you really want to be lame about your computer peripherals
The best mouse is the one you are comfortable with. If you need a high DPI, get one of the fancy laser mice. If you don't like a really really fast mouse, get a generic optical and forget about it.
A lot of old school SC1 pro's use ball mice because that is what they are used to.
I picked up a Logitech G9X on the weekend and started tweaking the DPI settings (which can be easily selected on the fly) in tandem with SC2's sensitivity. Coming from an MX300 this mouse is far more accurrate but getting the DPI just right for setting 2 (I reserved 3 as high DPI for Desktop use) took a bit.
In general use whatever mouse feels comfortable in your hand, has a decent poll rate on the USB port and you should be good .
On September 28 2010 14:45 Jibba wrote: MX518 is nothing like his mouse.
MS Blue/1.1a is an ambidextrous mouse with a high palm.
OP, search next time. There's plenty of mice threads already.
Kinzu/Habu and Xai all have near identical shapes, but they also all have terrible sensors.
Among ambidextrous mice with good sensors, there's really only the Razer Abyssus and Logitech G1, and neither have the high palm. Still, they're both pretty excellent mice so you might want to try them at a local Best Buy/Fry's.
EDIT: Terrible is too strongly worded. Their sensors just aren't as good as the optical sensors found in Last edit: 2010-09-28 14:46:29 the above mice.
In Steelseries Xai Is it bad sensor?
It's not as good as the optical sensor Razer uses in the Deathadder and Abyssus.
Kinzu's is bad, Ikari optical's is bad, Ikari laser has negative acceleration and Xai has a bit less of it. Especially for RTS games, you may not even notice the Xai's hardware acceleration.
I've heard Abyssus and new DA sensor is pretty horrible :/ Jitters on QcK and no firmware upgrading (for the Abyssus at least).
Stuck using a G1 until someone makes a decent mouse with > 450 dpi (though I'm going to see how the Asian Salmosa goes, but even before it arrives I know it won't be perfect due to angle snapping, and I've heard bad liftoff?) >_>
G1 Has a prediction?
It does, but all other factors considered it's my best option for now. I also have a Ktec 9500+ but that seems to skip pixels :/
LMO also has a prediction, but almost all progamer use it. Prediction for the SC is not important.
I'm using a vx nano now but ordered a logitech mini optical. My apm is actually higher with the vx nano for some reason by my control feels pretty bad. Hopefully the mini optical is like my old logitech because I can't find that for sale anywhere.
I use a Razer Salmosa (not the Korea Pro-Gaming Edition). It's really great, mainly because it's a pretty small mouse, so it fits my hand nicely. I use the 800dpi setting (the other option is 1800dpi) with a sensitivity level of 6.
If I had the money, I'd go and buy something ricer like a Logitech G9x.
On October 02 2010 02:02 PROJECTILE wrote: high dpi (or more accurately, cpi) is SO overrated. The best thing you can do is get a teflon mouse pad if you really want to be lame about your computer peripherals
It is overrated, but it is still really important for some people like myself who run at 1600x1200 or even higher.
At this point it's pretty rare to need more than 3-4k CPI though, so if mice keep going higher than they are now, THEN it becomes more than just overrated.
as long as the mouse doesnt jump or skip around with rapid movements ANY mouse works thats comfortable for you.
The only variable might be some mice allow you to interchange weights - and some have extra buttons on the side and such which if not used in games, useful for web browsing forward and back and etc.
what matters more IMO once you have a decent mouse is the mousepad. Getting a nice highend mousepad thats like teflon coated or whatever makes your mouse movements feel like your floating... so get whatever mouse you want, then get a good mousepad. Careful as some mousepads do not work with some older optical mouses.
The mouse depends on your kind of grip. you can't say "this mouse is the best".
For me either Salmosa or Abyssus (the later is the one i'm playing with right now, and it totally kicks ass), cause i'm using the clwa grip, and light mouse seems to be the best.
On October 12 2010 23:57 Subversion wrote: Got an Abyssus today, enjoying it so far.
Using it with Goliathus Speed pad, no skipping or jittering,
its a great mouse imo, esp for RTS
I bought the Abyssus one week ago. Inreach convince me :p
What dpi/sensivity do you use ?
I was at 3600 dpi but I reduce it to 1800 with a sensivity of 10.
I have a eXactMat from razer. The goliath is better ?
Congrats. Abyssus is a great hcoice for RTS games. But i would suggest to NOT play on a sensivity of 10. manage the mouse speed with the dpi (1800 should be fine, too fast of a mouse sucks). afaik 6/10 is the best setting, cause it will be translatet as 1:1 pixel. if you use 10 or whatever it sth like 1:3,345897346187, and screws up your accuracy.
Can anyone help me please? I'm too getting a new mouse as soon as my SC2 copy arrives, I'm currently using a generic USB Logitech black mouse (chunky as hell).
So well, my hand is 6.7inches long (pretty small hands, I'm 5'7''), and don't really have the option to try every gaming mouse I could, here in Lima there's only one place for decent PC hardware and mice aren't the biggest concern.
'been reading nice reviews about the Intellimouse explorer 3.0 and the Logitec Mini Optical .. but there's one thing: I play at 1920x1080 on Ultra settings (don't know if it matters), and this mice are supossed to be only good for low resolutions!!
[QUOTE]On October 18 2010 21:55 sCuMBaG wrote: The mouse depends on your kind of grip. you can't say "this mouse is the best".
For me either Salmosa or Abyssus (the later is the one i'm playing with right now, and it totally kicks ass), cause i'm using the clwa grip, and light mouse seems to be the best.
I don't like either one of the choices in the OP.
[QUOTE]On October 18 2010 17:50 Orzabal wrote:
Congrats. Abyssus is a great hcoice for RTS games. But i would suggest to NOT play on a sensivity of 10. manage the mouse speed with the dpi (1800 should be fine, too fast of a mouse sucks). afaik 6/10 is the best setting, cause it will be translatet as 1:1 pixel. if you use 10 or whatever it sth like 1:3,345897346187, and screws up your accuracy.[/QUOTE]
That's a great tip - I was wondering why the mouse felt inaccurate at higher sensitivity - it's actually skipping past pixels to gain that speed, ey? I'm going to fiddle with my DeathAdder some more when I get home. Teehee
Can someone tell me if its better for SC2 the abyssus normal edition or mirror edition? i dont know if i'll like the rubber surface of the normal edition, but maybe i do. I'll buy it online so i can't tease it.
Thanks.
EDIT: and i'm wondering if the kinzu is better, so help me if you can. please :/
Just ordered a razer abyssus to accomodate my small hands, looking forward to trying it out. I was so broken down when i searched a few hours for a new mouse, the salmosa that's the mouse i wanted! but it was impossible to get. I was very relieved when the abyssus was basically an upgraded salmosa:p (been currently using an mx518 for a year now, it is a VERY good mouse but i can't really get a proper grip on it for some reason.
I can't believe anyone would recommend the Intellimouse for gaming. it is the worst gaming mouse I have ever used. I went through a Gen1 and Gen2 and I think the one I have now is a Gen4. (They replaced / upgraded them as they broke, so CS was good.
However the last version I used did not have any tactical feedback for the wheel for for FPS games where you use the mouse to switch weapons, it would always over / under scroll. It was so bad that the scroll wheel was unusable. So I bought a MX1000 to replace it but have since switched to the G5. I figured I could use the Intelli mouse at work for regular computer usage. But I was wrong again. The scroll wheel did not work properly with Eclipse IDE (I'm a software developer). Finally one day I googled it and found that it was in fact a common complaint. It is such a turd it's been sitting in a box ever since.
I think they gen1 and gen2 were pretty good in their time, and they did have tatical feedback in the scroll wheel, but they all stopped functioning once the wires broke where they go into the mouse,the Gen4 (I think it was Gen 4 b ut maybe it was a 3.0) last one was so bad I'll never use it again. I have a Razer too, but it's probably too sensitive for SC2.
Steel Series Xai is perfect for me, Great shape, PERFECT tracking, lots of settings to configure it just right. High quality build, glides accross my mousepad like gravvy. 2 thumbs up
I just bought an Intellimouse Explorer 3 because of this thread (poll in the OP), and totally REGRET it! This mouse might be the god father of FPS gaming but if you want to buy it for Starcraft 2, think twice.
- It's quite big and only suitable for the "palm" hold, not the "claw" hold (FYI most good SC2 players use claw)
- Its resolution is low, which means you will either have to sacrifice accuracy to move fast, or keep accuracy and move slow. This is extremely painful especially when you play on a 1600+ resolution.
A good mouse for Starcraft 2 would be a mouse that has light weight, high sensitivity and small size. The idea is that if you look at a SC2 pro playing from further than 2metres, his right hand will always look like it's staying still.
I learnt this lesson the hard way by buying the mouse first before doing any research. At the moment I got it shipped in and unwrapped it it I knew I made a mistake - a RTS game mouse just CANNOT be longer than 120mm.
I think a lot of opinions posted on this thread were from people with FPS background, thus the favour towards Intellimouse 3.0.
I've been using a G500 and while it is a nice mouse, it feels a bit too heavy for RTS and is not terribly claw-grip friendly. I think it just got stolen so I'll probably get an Intellimouse Explorer as a cheap substitute, if it doesn't turn up.
I tend to take care of the expensive gear I buy, so I figured why not get something special.
Roccat Kone+
-Flawless tracking. -High quality build with the most solid wheel I have ever seen. -Smart functionality allowing me the control of my whole f***n computer with just one mouse so I hardly use keyboard while doing Windows general stuff. I mean... 5 profiles x 21 function each. That's insane... and no its not overloaded with buttons. In fact, there are only 2 at the sides. -Size and design IMO allow a hybrid claw-palm kind of grip for more movement and precision at the same time. The mouse slides like on ice on my Razer desktop skin. -That's not mentioning plenty of other goodness.
-And finally, Pew Pew Lasers shine from the mouse in any colour variation you want!
Nonstop handgasms.
Edit: For those, who are bragging that small mouses rule for RTS: I have always had trouble with splitting probes for 2 months now. After I got the kone+ (which is pretty large), on the second night I had 100% success in doing that on a sensitivity at least 2x of what I had been using before. Its like the mouse reads your mind and puts the cursor where you need it with hardly any hand movement.
On October 21 2010 09:17 GuSaR wrote: Edit: For those, who are bragging that small mouses rule for RTS: I always had trouble with splitting probes for 2 months now. After I got the kone+ (which is pretty large), on the second night I had 100% success in doing that on a sensitivity at least 2x of what I had been using before. Its like the mouse reads your mind and puts the cursor where you need it with hardly any hand movement.
The thing with small mice in RTS is not that smaller means more accurate, but in RTS you tend to click and move a lot more (than any other game genres) - so with a smaller mouse you can mass games much more before your hand getting any tired thanks to less hand movement and the 'claw' hold.
On October 21 2010 10:32 mrdx wrote: The thing with small mice in RTS is not that smaller means more accurate, but in RTS you tend to click and move a lot more (than any other game genres) - so with a smaller mouse you can mass games much more before your hand getting any tired thanks to less hand movement and the 'claw' hold.
That's true, but the magic of all the mouses with very ergonomic designs is that size matters less with them. I have a medium sized hand and I have no trouble claw-gripping that big and tall kone+ for high sensitivity play. Additionally the large size lets my hand relax on the mouse body from time to time with minimal adjustment. Just my opinion though.
Edit: Forgot to mention. Claw-gripping needs you to have a very glidey surface for the mouse. Otherwise your hand will get tired no matter what size your mouse is.
I love love love love love my Diamondback 3G. It feels great in my hand and it's nice and responsive. I'm gonna keep an eye out for a backup if I come across one.
I got a razer salmosa due to its very cheap price along side my Microsoft intelli mouse, both work very well with SC2, if id be playing any other game id go with my salmosa... Keyboard i would go for the very cheap Logitech K120 (can be found under 10$ and is great) or the baller Filco Majestouch brown switchs for 120$, anything in between is wasting money.
5 years on, it's still working perfectly. I'm thinking I should buy more of them so I have a lifetime supply - I love it that much. Then again, this one might be all I need - it just keeps going and going and going...
5 years on, it's still working perfectly. I'm thinking I should buy more of them so I have a lifetime supply - I love it that much. Then again, this one might be all I need - it just keeps going and going and going...
i recently switched to ss xai which is ligher and can be more sensitive, but mx518 is my 2nd choice
ive been playing sc2 with the razer naga (bought it for wow) and i really like, cause im used to it. what makes a good rts mouse? what is not good about the naga for rts? if u guys got some good point i might think about gettin another mouse, but for now im satisfied.
On October 21 2010 14:52 rza wrote: ive been playing sc2 with the razer naga (bought it for wow) and i really like, cause im used to it. what makes a good rts mouse? what is not good about the naga for rts? if u guys got some good point i might think about gettin another mouse, but for now im satisfied.
i guess the 9(?) extra buttons are more or less useless, but as long as they don't annoy you it doesn't matter at all imho...
i could imagine some people might find it a bit too heavy as many people seem to prefer more simple and light mice for RTS... (no idea how heavy it actually is, but i could imagine all those thumb-buttons add some extra weight)
I keep changing between G9x and Salmosa! I have used the Salmosa for a long time but I feel the build quality is crap and ultimately the shape isn't very confortable, but it's soo light which is really a plus. at first the g9x was very heavy but now I it's not as big of a problem both because I probably got more muscle and also because I started to hold it more like the mouse is shaped, like a fingertip grip with palm support.
I've always played on BW with the good old classic Microsoft wheel mouse optical :
But now I play on a 1980*1080 game so I need higher DPI... I took my DeathAdder who I didn't like it, but with some adaptation it is a really good mouse.
I'm interested in a classic slight mouse as the Steelseries Kinzu or the Razer Abyssus cauz I miss my microsoft wheel mouse... But I admit that the Razer Deathadder rox !
I just replaced an old intellimouse 3a with a razor deathadder. The shape and size are pretty close and they have buttons in the same places. The DA is very smooth and very comfortable, a fitting replacement.
I'm another lover of the MX518. It is the first and only gaming mouse that I've ever bought. Obviously, it's lasted for a long time, and it's still going strong after . . . close to 3.5 or 4 years, I think (but the left button, in particular, is starting to show it's age with an interesting, high-pitched "click" sound apart from what you normally hear when I hit it, no malfunctions, though).
I originally got it because I have long fingers (piano fingers, if you're familiar with the term) and liked to put my palm on the mouse, so Logitech mice are very well made for that type of grip. I've, of course, switched to a more finger-tip grip style for SC2, but I still love the mouse. It's a solid choice and is one of the cheapest ones out there nowadays.
On October 21 2010 14:52 rza wrote: ive been playing sc2 with the razer naga (bought it for wow) and i really like, cause im used to it. what makes a good rts mouse? what is not good about the naga for rts? if u guys got some good point i might think about gettin another mouse, but for now im satisfied.
lol I actually use my naga too. I use the side buttons for my hot keyed units and the slight incline on the end of the clickers (unsure if that is technical name) actually helps me click faster.
On October 22 2010 19:15 broke wrote: What's the difference between any mouse in this thread, and a decade old ball mouse, for playing an RTS?
To use a standard 400 dpi mouse on an RTS and have any kind of responsiveness you need to set the sensitivity really high. This means that you're going to skip 3-4 pixels every time you move your cursor -- so you can only 'hit' 1 out of every 20 or so pixels that are on the screen. High dpi enables you to have high sensitivity and 1:1 movement with no skipped pixels. This was less of an issue in BW where the resolution was constrained to 640x480. On larger resolutions skipping is going to be much more noticeable. When you switch to a high dpi mouse you realize how much more smooth it makes your movements.
Another factor is that regular optical mice are quite poor at responding to sudden acceleration and fast movement. They lose a lot of performance if they are moved too quickly. You can test this by rapidly sliding your mouse to the right, lifting it, and returning it to the same spot. If you move fast enough, you will see that your mouse fails completely in tracking your movement -- the cursor will bounce around randomly and won't move to the right. This is a problem for low quality optical mice -- not sure if it's relevant for ball mice ?
I have the 4 assigned as shift, so I can queue things up using only two fingers from my left hand (i. e. hold down 4 with my right thumb, press B and then E with my left fingers to build pylons). Also I can hold down the shift on my keyboard and press the 3 on the mouse to add units to my 3rd control group (I keep my army on 3). It's nice to be able to shift-add things to control groups by pressing the numbers on the mouse rather than reaching all the way across your keyboard with your left fingers to numbers such as 8, 9, or 0.
Poll: Steelseries Kinzu or Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0?
Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 (558)
55%
Steelseries Kinzu (454)
45%
1012 total votes
Your vote: Steelseries Kinzu or Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0?
(Vote): Steelseries Kinzu (Vote): Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0
I'm planning to upgrade my old cheapo wireless mouse for the Starcraft 2 launch. I must say I've grown quite accustomed to its small size, light weight and liberating lack of cord but hell, if a gaming-grade mouse can help me improve my control...
My research so far has revealed contradicting evidence. Some people argue that you just have to play with what you like, and that high-dpi hardware is only truly useful in FPS games. Others swear by their high-tech mice. I'm on a limited budged so I probably won't be getting the brag gear Razer just announced, so I'm looking more for functionality. Some people recommended the salmosa or the microsoft intellimouse, but I haven't seen the final word on it.
I'm asking then TLers, in your infinite wisdom, is a gaming mouse a worthwhile investment and if so, what mouse gives you most bang for your buck?
EDIT: After a lot of great feedback, I've narrowed it down to the Steelseries Kinzu or the Intellimouse 3.0 Both have the similar price, reputation and the light, claw-grip ergonomics I prefer. Fight!
The intelli does NOT have "light, claw-grip ergonomics", it's one of the most palm-grip friendly mice on the market, and really set a standard for palm-grip design. That's the reason I switched out my intelli3.0 for a deathadder; the exact same design, except the deathadder is a bit smaller and overall more advanced.
I've been using the Razer Orochi that i got as a gift a while back in wired mode. Without Batteries in it, and wired to my keyboard, it is actually a touch lighter than the Abyssus, as well as more well suited for a claw-grip. I actually like it more than my Abyssus, and find i preform better with it.
I'm a big fan of the death adder as I was used to the intellimouse, which was nice and big. death adder is very precise, comfortable, and looks thoroughly b'dass. Plus, I love that razer sponsored king of the beta tournament...
I have been using a DeathAdder since the launch of Starcraft II, but I can't recommend it for people who use a fingertip grip. I just received my Abyssus (set to 1800dpi on a 1080p monitor) and I'm loving it. The Kinzu is a similar mouse, and I'd honestly recommend either for small-handed fingertip or claw grip players.
With the DeathAdder and small hands, a fingertip grip causes the mouse to be turned inward towards the keyboard. It puts excess pressure on the right pinkie / ring finger, which starts to wear on you if you're grinding on the ladder or doing extended practice sessions.
With the Abyssus, the mouse is held centered when gripped with the side fingers, and the lighter weight puts less strain on the grasping fingers. In addition it feels more responsive because the lighter weight allows it to glide more easily... especially important with the fingertip grip as you don't have your palm to push the mouse forward.
On October 22 2010 19:15 broke wrote: What's the difference between any mouse in this thread, and a decade old ball mouse, for playing an RTS?
To use a standard 400 dpi mouse on an RTS and have any kind of responsiveness you need to set the sensitivity really high. This means that you're going to skip 3-4 pixels every time you move your cursor -- so you can only 'hit' 1 out of every 20 or so pixels that are on the screen. High dpi enables you to have high sensitivity and 1:1 movement with no skipped pixels. This was less of an issue in BW where the resolution was constrained to 640x480. On larger resolutions skipping is going to be much more noticeable. When you switch to a high dpi mouse you realize how much more smooth it makes your movements.
While this is correct, it's only correct up to a point. If you're striving for that 1:1 accuracy, you have to restrict yourself to your resolution. Using a 2000 DPI mouse in 1024x768 hurts you in the same way that using a 400dpi mouse hurts you in 1600x900.
Another factor is that regular optical mice are quite poor at responding to sudden acceleration and fast movement. They lose a lot of performance if they are moved too quickly. You can test this by rapidly sliding your mouse to the right, lifting it, and returning it to the same spot. If you move fast enough, you will see that your mouse fails completely in tracking your movement -- the cursor will bounce around randomly and won't move to the right. This is a problem for low quality optical mice -- not sure if it's relevant for ball mice ?
I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but this is just completely false. Optical mice are FAR better about acceleration and max speed, and have always been so. Newer laser mice are getting much better, but to say that they're at the level of optical is just plain wrong. The good news is that the faults in acceleration/max speed on laser mice will only impact you at lower sensitivities - something that you shouldn't be using in an RTS to begin with.
Razers are good but, the mouse market in general is full of gimmicks. Most of the BW pros use regular logitechs, as long as the tracking is good and it has decent dpi you're fine. It should also fit comfortably in the hand. For rts, smaller mice are usually preffered.
Even the sc2 pros generally don't use over-the-top mice. Yuo don't need to spend 60+ on a good mouse. Sc2 only requires a 2 button mouse anyway. These "gaming" mice you see are pointless. I laugh when people spend tons of money on a razer and still suck at their games. I saw a gsl video where a WeMadeFoxx was using a shiny razer and had like 500 apm but still couldnt make it past the prelims. It's almost like buying drum equipment. They tell you their product makes you faster and more efficient but they're really just ripping you off.
Just use whats comfortable, has solid tracking, and at least 800 dpi imo. The only reason ud want high dpi though is so you can set the windows and ingame sensiticvity to 50/50 and still get high speed, but for sc2 1000-1200 dpi tops is needed. for FPS, the intellimouse is great because it has low dpi and a larger base.
Keyboards are a different story however. Though they dont make too much difference, you may want to spend 100+ on cherry mx browns. MEchanical keyboards are more tactile and easier to press, and theyll last you a few years, so the money is actually worht it.
I think you make a good point, but you're still putting up a double standard. See, I figure that the only reason we see more gimmicky mouses than keyboards is just because all of those "gaming accessory" companies tend to focus on mice first and then keyboards after they're establish (case in point: Razer). Once all companies start getting in on it, we're sure to see stuff going in multiple directions along with more "gimmicky" products. (Note, though, that gaming products are usually at a higher quality level than regular ones. Buying one of the cheapest non-gamer products is always a roll of the dice while buying one of the cheaper gamer products is at least somewhat more reliable.)
Besides, once you add in personal opinion, a lot of those mice you see as gimmicks become some of the best out there. I've seen posts in this thread and others where someone will swear for each one of the Razer mice, and I know they're telling the truth by saying it's the best for them because it's such an opinion-dependent thing. After all, think of the range of mouse designs versus keyboard designs. At the very least, the average gamer knows of way more mouse designs than keyboard designs, which backs up my earlier point of just how much there is in terms of quantity of each of these products.
I will agree, though, that SC2 is one of the only games in the pro-circuit that emphasizes keyboard quality over mouse quality. (Perhaps this is another reason for mouse proliferation: FPS games started out way bigger, especially with Counter Strike?)
something i dont get: why is it kind of a consensus that "the majority of rts players prefers small mice"? lightweight, i agree, but why small? there are lots of palm grippers out there and i personally dont think fingertip or claw grip are "inherently superior" to a palm grip in rts games. grubby for example is a palm gripper and was a top top wc3 pro. he surely practiced at least 8 hours a day on average, so fatigue when mass gaming with a palm grip mouse certainly is no necessity.
so i personally think it doesnt make sense for a palm gripper to switch to some other grip for sc2/any rts, just because there´s this meme that these are to be preferred for this purpose. imho using a grip and therefore a mouseshape that feels comfortable is the most important thing of all when deciding about which mouse to buy. ofc the candidate pool should only consist of mice with somewhat solid sensors in the first place, but once this requirement is met, technical gimmicks or the preferences of other guys on the net are completely irrelevant. its about what u feel comfortable with.
the reason for this rant is that i am a palm gripper that just tried out smaller claw/fingertip mice because of all the talk about how these "are to be preferred for rts" and it was a horrible experience for me. my precision went down and my hands started hurting much earlier. so i returned the g9x i had tried out to the shop and gave back my friend his salmosa and went for a nice palm grip mouse and im very very happy with it.
Buying one of the cheapest non-gamer products is always a roll of the dice while buying one of the cheaper gamer products is at least somewhat more reliable
This is true, but my point is that most of the higher-level ones don't grant any special benefits, at least not for sc2. For WoW I can see if you want to set like 5+ mouse macros, and maybe even for fps, but even then a quality gamer doesn't really benefit from these mice. The question is what gaming mouse is best for sc2, and while that is an opinion, there are things we can look at like tracking quality, durability, size/comfort, dpi, and affordability. In terms of sc2, the best players tend to stray away from overpriced bs, because a 1600 dpi razer with 4 extra buttons and a light-up wheel is just not cost-effective, compared to a logitech or microsoft you can buy for a fraction of the price that does the same exact job.
And yeah, I still think they keyboards are quite gimmicky as well, but the more expensive keyboards tend to at least have some sort of improvement to show for their price, like actuation and feel, which aren't as important for mice when playing RTS but Flash slams people with like a 10 year old samsung board so even then it probably doesnt matter much. sc2 players are just slamming the keys anyway.
I think the most important thing about keyboards is button placement.
I'm not saying the mouse has to be tiny with claw grip, i tend to float between claw and palm when i play. I'm just saying the mouse probably shouldn't be as big as the intellimouse. I've tried it for sc2 and the size limits quick finger control. I tend to flick my mouse with my wrist/fingers and unless you have large hands you're going to be limited to full arm motions, which is fine for fps but not so much for rts. I just feel encumbered by large mice
On October 24 2010 04:34 ThE_ShiZ wrote: @Black Gun
I'm not saying the mouse has to be tiny with claw grip, i tend to float between claw and palm when i play. I'm just saying the mouse probably shouldn't be as big as the intellimouse. I've tried it for sc2 and the size limits quick finger control. I tend to flick my mouse with my wrist/fingers and unless you have large hands you're going to be limited to full arm motions, which is fine for fps but not so much for rts. I just feel encumbered by large mice
see, so this means U dont feel comfortable with mice above a size of X. why do u then say "mice of size greater than X are not good for rts" instead of "mice of size greater than X are not good for rts FOR ME"?
im just sick of this generalizing of personal mouse preferences. thats the same shit as when ppl say that dpi doesnt matter at all for sc2 which simply isnt true. depending on the screen resolution and the preferred sensitivy, a dpi of over 1.5k can very easily be needed in sc2. i use a 1920x1080 resolution in sc2. ppl who would suggest me a 3.0 or a LMO simply dont know what they are talking about.
dpi always has to be seen in combination with the used screen resolution. bw with its 640x480 had such a low res that pretty much any mouse had high enough dpi for it. similarly, cs is played in a rather small resolution by todays standards and in fps games there are lots of low sens games which therefore also dont need a high dpi. but instead of saying this, u hear generalized stuff like "no mouse needs more than 800 dpi, its just expensive gimmicks". true, more than 3k dpi are probably unneeded for 99.99% of circumstances and gamers, but there are various situations where something like 800 dpi wont cut it anymore today.
intelli 3.0, what i find funny is i bought my first laser mouse (intelli 3.0) back in like early-mid 2001 with a new computer i bought and another one in about 2003 (which i still use to this day, the paint i gone from the left clicker) works perfect but what's funny is it's the only mouse i have ever liked and used constantly for over 9 years and i just found out about 2-3 years ago it's ginormious in the "pro" gaming league all over WC3, SC, CS etc. and they stopped production for awhile and all this.. anyways i have used a MX300,310 and 510 and thought they were all awful mouses and i will never try another logitech, same with their headsets and keyboards i find their products to be incredibly overrated and not that great.
I will continue to use the intelli for the next 10 years or when i can't find them, i have 3 in a box sealed in my closet as back ups which i bought after hearing they went out of production then came back but judging by this 3.0 i have now, that i have had for 8 years and still works perfectly fine these should do me till the day i die or there is no longer a use for a mouse.
On October 24 2010 02:24 ThE_ShiZ wrote: Razers are good but, the mouse market in general is full of gimmicks. Most of the BW pros use regular logitechs, as long as the tracking is good and it has decent dpi you're fine. It should also fit comfortably in the hand. For rts, smaller mice are usually preffered.
Even the sc2 pros generally don't use over-the-top mice. Yuo don't need to spend 60+ on a good mouse. Sc2 only requires a 2 button mouse anyway. These "gaming" mice you see are pointless. I laugh when people spend tons of money on a razer and still suck at their games. I saw a gsl video where a WeMadeFoxx was using a shiny razer and had like 500 apm but still couldnt make it past the prelims. It's almost like buying drum equipment. They tell you their product makes you faster and more efficient but they're really just ripping you off.
Just use whats comfortable, has solid tracking, and at least 800 dpi imo. The only reason ud want high dpi though is so you can set the windows and ingame sensiticvity to 50/50 and still get high speed, but for sc2 1000-1200 dpi tops is needed. for FPS, the intellimouse is great because it has low dpi and a larger base.
Keyboards are a different story however. Though they dont make too much difference, you may want to spend 100+ on cherry mx browns. MEchanical keyboards are more tactile and easier to press, and theyll last you a few years, so the money is actually worht it.
I agree with the mouse statement, i don't understand the obsession with spending 60+ on a mouse with 40 buttons, also as far as keyboards go, i will pick up a 10$ one at target and it works just find, i will never in my life EVER spend more then 10-20$ on a keyboard, i find it ridiculous people spend 100+ on a keyboard but then again people spend spend ridiculous amounts of money on all kinds of trivial shit.
On October 24 2010 02:06 Vedic wrote: While this is correct, it's only correct up to a point. If you're striving for that 1:1 accuracy, you have to restrict yourself to your resolution. Using a 2000 DPI mouse in 1024x768 hurts you in the same way that using a 400dpi mouse hurts you in 1600x900.
Not true. It doen't hurt you in the same way. Using a mouse with dpi too low for fast 1:1 at a given screen resolution means you have to start skipping pixels. Using a mouse with dpi that's too high and that has to have it's sensitivity reduced below 1:1 means that some mouse movement has to be ignored, so it may take slightly farther to move between certain pixels than others. This is MUCH less noticeable than pixel-skipping, and unlike pixel skipping is not going to become a worse problem as the mouse move farther from 1:1
I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but this is just completely false. Optical mice are FAR better about acceleration and max speed, and have always been so. Newer laser mice are getting much better, but to say that they're at the level of optical is just plain wrong. The good news is that the faults in acceleration/max speed on laser mice will only impact you at lower sensitivities - something that you shouldn't be using in an RTS to begin with.
I guess I wasn't clear -- I was talking about optical vs. ball, not optical vs. laser. Laser never came into my argument. You'll notice I don't mention laser mice anywhere in my post.
On October 24 2010 02:24 ThE_ShiZ wrote: Razers are good but, the mouse market in general is full of gimmicks. Most of the BW pros use regular logitechs, as long as the tracking is good and it has decent dpi you're fine. It should also fit comfortably in the hand. For rts, smaller mice are usually preffered.
Even the sc2 pros generally don't use over-the-top mice. Yuo don't need to spend 60+ on a good mouse. Sc2 only requires a 2 button mouse anyway. These "gaming" mice you see are pointless. I laugh when people spend tons of money on a razer and still suck at their games. I saw a gsl video where a WeMadeFoxx was using a shiny razer and had like 500 apm but still couldnt make it past the prelims. It's almost like buying drum equipment. They tell you their product makes you faster and more efficient but they're really just ripping you off.
Just use whats comfortable, has solid tracking, and at least 800 dpi imo. The only reason ud want high dpi though is so you can set the windows and ingame sensiticvity to 50/50 and still get high speed, but for sc2 1000-1200 dpi tops is needed. for FPS, the intellimouse is great because it has low dpi and a larger base.
Keyboards are a different story however. Though they dont make too much difference, you may want to spend 100+ on cherry mx browns. MEchanical keyboards are more tactile and easier to press, and theyll last you a few years, so the money is actually worht it.
It seems it's starting to change, from the GSL I've seen quite a few pros no longer using the cheap generic mice. Cool used a Logitech g9x and I think tester uses that too. It depends on your preferences but at 1080p resolutions many people like having 1600+ dpi.
see, so this means U dont feel comfortable with mice above a size of X. why do u then say "mice of size greater than X are not good for rts" instead of "mice of size greater than X are not good for rts FOR ME"?
It's not even the feel aspect of it, it's the practicality. A large mouse might feel good for someone but it surely does limit quick motions. A smaller mouse is flickable with less arm motion. It's not like in fps where you buy a huge 2 foot mouse pad so you can fling your arm. sc2 requires more speed/mouse flicking and less precision, unlike fps where precision is favored over sensitivity, thus, it's much easier to fling your cursor around with a smaller mouse. Finger control is often favorable because of this.
I use a Razer Diamondback for all my pc games, but really it doesn't matter, as long as it isn't balled. Your mousepad prob matters more than the mouse for rts (tracking+friction between it and the mouse)
On October 24 2010 02:06 Vedic wrote: While this is correct, it's only correct up to a point. If you're striving for that 1:1 accuracy, you have to restrict yourself to your resolution. Using a 2000 DPI mouse in 1024x768 hurts you in the same way that using a 400dpi mouse hurts you in 1600x900.
Not true. It doen't hurt you in the same way. Using a mouse with dpi too low for fast 1:1 at a given screen resolution means you have to start skipping pixels. Using a mouse with dpi that's too high and that has to have it's sensitivity reduced below 1:1 means that some mouse movement has to be ignored, so it may take slightly farther to move between certain pixels than others. This is MUCH less noticeable than pixel-skipping, and unlike pixel skipping is not going to become a worse problem as the mouse move farther from 1:1
The problem is equally bad (and in some cases worse, due to the fact that no monitor uses 1:1 ratio), and should be treated with equal disdain. It's not a question of noticing the problem (though, if you're good enough, you'll notice it anyway), but a question of real accuracy. It's not like a human can be pixel accurate at any of these ratios anyway, but if you're using more DPI than your resolution, you're a sucker for marketing, and really just giving yourself a placebo.
I guess I wasn't clear -- I was talking about optical vs. ball, not optical vs. laser. Laser never came into my argument. You'll notice I don't mention laser mice anywhere in my post.
Ball mice really have no place in any mouse discussion, but optical win out in every division.
On October 24 2010 02:06 Vedic wrote: While this is correct, it's only correct up to a point. If you're striving for that 1:1 accuracy, you have to restrict yourself to your resolution. Using a 2000 DPI mouse in 1024x768 hurts you in the same way that using a 400dpi mouse hurts you in 1600x900.
Not true. It doen't hurt you in the same way. Using a mouse with dpi too low for fast 1:1 at a given screen resolution means you have to start skipping pixels. Using a mouse with dpi that's too high and that has to have it's sensitivity reduced below 1:1 means that some mouse movement has to be ignored, so it may take slightly farther to move between certain pixels than others. This is MUCH less noticeable than pixel-skipping, and unlike pixel skipping is not going to become a worse problem as the mouse move farther from 1:1
The problem is equally bad (and in some cases worse, due to the fact that no monitor uses 1:1 ratio), and should be treated with equal disdain. It's not a question of noticing the problem (though, if you're good enough, you'll notice it anyway), but a question of real accuracy. It's not like a human can be pixel accurate at any of these ratios anyway, but if you're using more DPI than your resolution, you're a sucker for marketing, and really just giving yourself a placebo.
I guess I wasn't clear -- I was talking about optical vs. ball, not optical vs. laser. Laser never came into my argument. You'll notice I don't mention laser mice anywhere in my post.
Ball mice really have no place in any mouse discussion, but optical win out in every division.
a perfectly clean and balanced ball mouse on a perfectly flat surface wins out over all other mice in my experiences, but that situation is so hard to come by that optical/laser come out on top also; a laser mouse > an optical one, esp. since opticals dont work on while/clear surfaces
Let's imagine you have a mouse that has to have a 4x increase in sensitivity to provide the level of sensitivity the user wants. It's going to skip 3/4 pixels. The problem increases as the difference between the mouses inherent sensitivity at 1:1 and the users desired sensitivity increases. It also means that 15/16 pixels on the screen are literally imposiible to hit.
Obviously, 1:1 is ideal, but now imagine that you've got a high dpi mouse that's got a slight dpi excess, and you have to dial down the sensitivity 75% to make it playable. What that means is that the mouse needs to move 0.75 pixels for every one pixel the mouse moves. That's not possible because only integer pixel movements are possible. So the mouse needs to move 4 pixels for every 3 pixels on the screen. For each cursor movement the mouse will move 1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2. This is not easy to notice, but not ideal. The third pixel requries an estra 100% the mouse movement to register on the screen.
Now, double the dpi on the mouse. Now the cursor needs to move 0.375 pixels for every 1 pixel the mouse moves, or 3 pixels for every 8 for the mouse. Now for each cursor movement the mouse moves 3-3-2-3-3-2-3-3-2. The third pixel requires 33% less mouse movement.
Doubling sensitivity again gives 3 pixels for every 16 of the mouse, and the cursor moves 5-5-6-5-5-6-5-5-6. The third pixel now only requires 17% extra movement.
The problem becomes less and less noticeable as the mouse dpi increases. So unless you can get perfect 1:1 (or 0.5:1 or 0.25:1, etc.), it's actually best to have the higest dpi mouse possible.
Regardless of that, even situation 1, where the mouse dpi was only slightly too high, most people who have used high dps mice prefer that to a mouse that skips. It's OK if you don't like high dpi mice, but please don't provide wrong information. And someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding things.
The reaon I talked about ball mice was in direct answer to another post.
I have huge hands I have a claw grip, and I am right handed. I'd also prefer side buttons around my thumb (just two). I have the opportunity to get a fancy mouse, what should I get? (I'm biased towards Razer because they seem so dang nice, but I'll be open to anything)
On October 26 2010 01:38 Hikko wrote: I have huge hands I have a claw grip, and I am right handed. I'd also prefer side buttons around my thumb (just two). I have the opportunity to get a fancy mouse, what should I get? (I'm biased towards Razer because they seem so dang nice, but I'll be open to anything)
On October 24 2010 06:50 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: @Vedic
Let's imagine you have a mouse that has to have a 4x increase in sensitivity to provide the level of sensitivity the user wants. It's going to skip 3/4 pixels. The problem increases as the difference between the mouses inherent sensitivity at 1:1 and the users desired sensitivity increases. It also means that 15/16 pixels on the screen are literally imposiible to hit.
Obviously, 1:1 is ideal, but now imagine that you've got a high dpi mouse that's got a slight dpi excess, and you have to dial down the sensitivity 75% to make it playable. What that means is that the mouse needs to move 0.75 pixels for every one pixel the mouse moves. That's not possible because only integer pixel movements are possible. So the mouse needs to move 4 pixels for every 3 pixels on the screen. For each cursor movement the mouse will move 1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2. This is not easy to notice, but not ideal. The third pixel requries an estra 100% the mouse movement to register on the screen.
It sounds to me like you're doing a lot of theorycrafting, but you haven't worked directly with mouse input. The x/y don't correlate to fractions of pixels, as the program won't even be dealing with more than whole numbers. When moving multiple pixels, you're not losing 1/4 per pixel, but per pixel update. The decimal is dropped from the full value of movement, not from individual pixels.
When your operating system is going to lower the input to less than 1:1, it's applying that value (in your case 0.75, but you'll be hard pressed to find such an elegant ratio) to the full update value, but then dropping the resulting decimal. While this would potentially be a little less bad on an interrupt-based system, there is just no way to properly use higher DPI than your resolution.
On October 24 2010 06:50 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: @Vedic
Let's imagine you have a mouse that has to have a 4x increase in sensitivity to provide the level of sensitivity the user wants. It's going to skip 3/4 pixels. The problem increases as the difference between the mouses inherent sensitivity at 1:1 and the users desired sensitivity increases. It also means that 15/16 pixels on the screen are literally imposiible to hit.
Obviously, 1:1 is ideal, but now imagine that you've got a high dpi mouse that's got a slight dpi excess, and you have to dial down the sensitivity 75% to make it playable. What that means is that the mouse needs to move 0.75 pixels for every one pixel the mouse moves. That's not possible because only integer pixel movements are possible. So the mouse needs to move 4 pixels for every 3 pixels on the screen. For each cursor movement the mouse will move 1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2. This is not easy to notice, but not ideal. The third pixel requries an estra 100% the mouse movement to register on the screen.
It sounds to me like you're doing a lot of theorycrafting, but you haven't worked directly with mouse input. The x/y don't correlate to fractions of pixels, as the program won't even be dealing with more than whole numbers. When moving multiple pixels, you're not losing 1/4 per pixel, but per pixel update. The decimal is dropped from the full value of movement, not from individual pixels.
When your operating system is going to lower the input to less than 1:1, it's applying that value (in your case 0.75, but you'll be hard pressed to find such an elegant ratio) to the full update value, but then dropping the resulting decimal. While this would potentially be a little less bad on an interrupt-based system, there is just no way to properly use higher DPI than your resolution.
But the discrepancy should still decrease as dpi increases because you'll be smaller steps away from ideal ratios when you're at higher dpi.
I got it for 22 dollars when it was on sale. I use it with the Razer Goliathus Control mouse pad and must say that I am pretty pleased with the both. I'm just curious what others think! But still, I wonder how much more awesome or not is the Abyssus or Deathadder for SC2.
Can you recommend to me a good gaming? I use Razer Diamondback, but I don't like its buttons. Is there anything close to it without extra buttons (I prefer the standard 3 ones)
I use the DeathAdder. Got it for $38 and so far its the best mouse i've ever used. used to use the MX518 but it started to die so I made the upgrade. Love the 3500 dpi
I bought the Intellimouse 3.0 because of the good reviews here. Anyway, I play on a semi-high resolution. Even though I crancked up the responsiveness to 100% in SC2 (and windows) I still need to move the mouse way too much to get the pointer from one side of the screen to the other side. It just doesn't work for me. I need to be able to move from side to side with a little wooosh.
Is this problem just with this type of mouse, does it have anything to do with its low DPI? I'm wondering if I need to get another mouse or adjust some stuff.
Stuv: Is acceleration (ie. enhanced precision) turned on? I find that sometimes because of how it works, it actually slows down your mouse speed unless you move the mouse very fast.
On October 28 2010 02:27 Stuv wrote: does it have anything to do with its low DPI?
That's exactly what the issue is. The IME3.0 is a great mouse but it's a bit of a relic back to CS/Q3 where most people played at 640x480, so the CPI limit was fine. For a bigger resolution, higher CPI will definitely be needed. If you like the shape, I'd recommend a Deathadder as it's essentially the same shape with a much newer, better sensor.
I need to replace my current mouse and i've really liked Logitech MX518 and Kinzu. Well, i deffenetly preffer the kinzu but i'm going to be using it for everyday things, not just games and i'm not sure how well it will cope with only 3 buttons at that. On the otherhand the logitech is kind of flashy so they both have downsides, anyone have any advice for me?
By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
If someone is thinking of buying MX518 i can tell you it's an safe-buy. Accurate simple mouse with extra macrobuttons for other games. Slides very well too.
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
400dpi is not enough for sc2
I hope you are not serious..
He's probably just lazy
But on a serious note, I use 400 dpi mice at work all day. It's what I'm used to, play fine with it and have never thought, man I wish my sensitivity was higher!
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
400dpi is not enough for sc2
I hope you are not serious..
He's probably just lazy
But on a serious note, I use 400 dpi mice at work all day. It's what I'm used to, play fine with it and have never thought, man I wish my sensitivity was higher!
You can just crank up the sensitivity, as long as you don't heighten it too much the precision is still good.
Depends on the game, but in most cases DPI and sensitivity work near identical between the way you move the mouse and the rate your cursor will cross the screen. Quality of the sensor means way more. I think it was the original G5 mice that had piss poor sensors but a high dpi with a high error rate with faster hands.
So my Razer Diamondback is screwing up and the middle mouse button is basically not working, so I need to purchase a new mouse. Would anyone recommend the Logitech G9? According to everything I've heard, it's one of the best out there and it seems as though it would feel comfortable in my hand (which is complete prediction). The only thing I heard that's wrong would be that it's somewhat tough to press down the middle mouse button and it can put strain on the middle finger. Is it really that bad? Also, it seems as though every other mouse has some sort of flaw to it, it's just that the G9 seems to have the most insignificant. So the G9 mouse, yas or no?
On October 29 2010 13:27 creditmobilier wrote: So my Razer Diamondback is screwing up and the middle mouse button is basically not working, so I need to purchase a new mouse. Would anyone recommend the Logitech G9? According to everything I've heard, it's one of the best out there and it seems as though it would feel comfortable in my hand (which is complete prediction). The only thing I heard that's wrong would be that it's somewhat tough to press down the middle mouse button and it can put strain on the middle finger. Is it really that bad? Also, it seems as though every other mouse has some sort of flaw to it, it's just that the G9 seems to have the most insignificant. So the G9 mouse, yas or no?
I have a 100% working G9 mouse that I retired because I felt like the shape of the buttons and the shape of the actual mouse was more suited to FPS games. I barely ever use the middle mouse button in SC (so this complaint was somewhat either responsible or possibly irrelevant to me personally) but for me to press the middle mouse button my G9 it pretty much feels like I have to break my finger to do it. It requires soo much god dam force to click it.
But hey Fruitseller uses one, musn't be too bad right?
I need some advice guys, I'm looking for a mouse with a "rough" surface. I find my current mouse has a smooth surface and gets kinda sticky. Any suggestions?
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
my arm would fall off at 400dpi on my 1920x1080 screen. I much rather use my 3600dpi mouse then a 400dpi mouse, which i do cuz i play a fingertip grip.
What matters much more is what mouse you're using on what mouse pad. FPS may be concerned with perfect large hand movements to go from x to y 100% of the time but rts you're using a lot of relative positions to do selections and movements being close enough and faster if better then being on the money at the risk of being slow.
On October 28 2010 18:30 Roflhaxx wrote: By the way guys, if you got a screen with 4 to 2 ms response timer and you use XP (It should work in vista/win7as well but no confirm) Then you should get urself the Intellimouse and just clock your usb port to 500/750 you will get a really quick and precise mouse.
my arm would fall off at 400dpi on my 1920x1080 screen. I much rather use my 3600dpi mouse then a 400dpi mouse, which i do cuz i play a fingertip grip.
What matters much more is what mouse you're using on what mouse pad. FPS may be concerned with perfect large hand movements to go from x to y 100% of the time but rts you're using a lot of relative positions to do selections and movements being close enough and faster if better then being on the money at the risk of being slow.
tried a lot of mouses, I feel razer is seriously the most overrated out of all, the cheap plastic is uncomfortable for my hand, especially when it gets wet Back to Logitech mini for the past half year. loving it.
On November 15 2010 04:43 in0luck wrote: tried a lot of mouses, I feel razer is seriously the most overrated out of all, the cheap plastic is uncomfortable for my hand, especially when it gets wet Back to Logitech mini for the past half year. loving it.
well it would help if you would at least say what model razer mouse you used
On November 15 2010 04:43 in0luck wrote: tried a lot of mouses, I feel razer is seriously the most overrated out of all, the cheap plastic is uncomfortable for my hand, especially when it gets wet Back to Logitech mini for the past half year. loving it.
well it would help if you would at least say what model razer mouse you used
And it would help if we knew why your hand was wet..
On October 28 2010 21:45 Ryndika wrote: If someone is thinking of buying MX518 i can tell you it's an safe-buy. Accurate simple mouse with extra macrobuttons for other games. Slides very well too.
And will be broke within the year so now i need a new mouse. I want something thats just good for rts and slides well. Not too much fancy stuff. Anyone have some mice to recommend?
On October 28 2010 21:45 Ryndika wrote: If someone is thinking of buying MX518 i can tell you it's an safe-buy. Accurate simple mouse with extra macrobuttons for other games. Slides very well too.
And will be broke within the year so now i need a new mouse. I want something thats just good for rts and slides well. Not too much fancy stuff. Anyone have some mice to recommend?
CM Spawn Razer Abyssus Razer Salmosa Razer Krait Logitech G1
On October 28 2010 21:45 Ryndika wrote: If someone is thinking of buying MX518 i can tell you it's an safe-buy. Accurate simple mouse with extra macrobuttons for other games. Slides very well too.
And will be broke within the year so now i need a new mouse. I want something thats just good for rts and slides well. Not too much fancy stuff. Anyone have some mice to recommend?
Whats the g500 like compared to g9x, thinking about buying a g9x, i think i have a palm grip, (currently using a deathadder v1) but i generally use my fingers/write and not my whole arm to move the mouse
Both of those mice are good as far as I know, but I really think the best gaming mouse, not only for SC2 is the SteelSeries Xai Laser its simple awesome and it just an awesome mouse. Still both of those mice you have are good too.
It all depends on how big your hands are and what grip style you like the best. MX518 is great and cheap for big hands. Kinzu is great for small hands.
On April 03 2011 21:24 Myir wrote: Whats the g500 like compared to g9x, thinking about buying a g9x, i think i have a palm grip, (currently using a deathadder v1) but i generally use my fingers/write and not my whole arm to move the mouse
I wouldn't recommend the G9x if you're using a palm grip. It's strictly fingertip/claw. It feels horrible (in my opinion) with a palm grip.
well tbh not sure if i use much of a palm grip, its probably more of a fingertip/claw grip, since i think i always use fingers/wrist to move my current mouse. not sure if my hands are particularly big but my palm doesnt fully touch/rest on my old v1 deathadder
You must buy a mouse with no increase in dpi or at least option for default (125hz). OSX has a peculiar malfunction with cursor jumping with any dpi over default (more the higher the dpi). Seriously, it will totally fuck up your mouse.
I bought Steelseries Ikari Laser recently and notice that overall it is an amazing mouse - 2 macro buttons in the perfect place, DPI adjustable to 3200 and presets allow to instantly switch between two custom DPIs, corded, and damned comfortable.
It is a large mouse and feel it is literally perfect for Palm grip and Claw grip styles.
However I have heard the opinion that the Fingertip grip is optimal for the precision demanded by higher level play in SC2 (such as in 6.01.2 in article http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 or on the Razer website) . I haven't tried other nice gaming mice so there is nothing I can suggest as a comparison but this mouse doesn't strike me as designed for this grip style.
If you know for sure that Fingertip grip is your style I am finding this mouse to be a little too large, even with big hands.
Grain of salt: I have just learned that different mouse grip styles exist, so maybe I am not holding it correctly. I do not rest my palm on the mouse, only using my fingertips (the Ikari has a large rump).
See i used to have the idea.. well I have to use wat the pros use just because thats the only right answer... well its not its the fact of wat feels good in your hands... and wat does the job... use any mouse as long as it works for you , its all opinion on what mouse is "best" for gaming.
The Razer Abyssus is in an affordable price range, and works great from my experiences with it. (: Out of your two choices though, the Intellimouse seems the best.
I'm using the Razer Naga, I have my SCV production/ depot production/ probe production/ chronoboost/ pylon and anything else that I do very often hotkeyed. Make my life slightly easier.
On April 07 2011 03:17 moltenlead wrote: I'm using the Razer Naga, I have my SCV production/ depot production/ probe production/ chronoboost/ pylon and anything else that I do very often hotkeyed. Make my life slightly easier.
Multibutton macros are bannable over BNet, and most definitely not allowed in tournament play
I use the Razer Orochi (Always plugged in with USB). The one thing I didn't like about the mouse was that it sometimes felt like it was slipping out of my grip - but some hockey tape around the side makes it an absolute dream.
I am looking into getting a new gaming mouse. I use a wireless logitech that is great except for the fact it is wireless (it is a similar model to the Logitech G500). I am looking for something around the $40-$75 range. I really enjoy having more than 2 buttons + scroll wheel. I am trying to make myself use the claw-grip when gaming.
Here are my thoughts so far: Razer DeathAdder Logitech G500 Razer Imperator
Any mouse you could recommend that doesn't need to have drivers installed and yet retains its settings or is there even such a thing? I know some have presets that you can switch and store their settings but not sure whether they actually need their drivers installed or not.
On April 07 2011 09:39 Hoban wrote: I am looking into getting a new gaming mouse. I use a wireless logitech that is great except for the fact it is wireless (it is a similar model to the Logitech G500). I am looking for something around the $40-$75 range. I really enjoy having more than 2 buttons + scroll wheel. I am trying to make myself use the claw-grip when gaming.
Here are my thoughts so far: Razer DeathAdder Logitech G500 Razer Imperator
Thank you for any advice I appreciate it!
You like big mouse?
take this also in consideration: MX518 not shabby mouse, wont piss you off if it doesnt work, cause its ridiculously cheap, like i got mines after mail in rebate for 22 dollars with shipping If you like small mice: Razer Abyssus
Go ahead and browse around, you dont really need a super high end model like the Imperator, a DeathAdder will prob do just fine
On April 07 2011 09:39 Hoban wrote: I am looking into getting a new gaming mouse. I use a wireless logitech that is great except for the fact it is wireless (it is a similar model to the Logitech G500). I am looking for something around the $40-$75 range. I really enjoy having more than 2 buttons + scroll wheel. I am trying to make myself use the claw-grip when gaming.
Here are my thoughts so far: Razer DeathAdder Logitech G500 Razer Imperator
Thank you for any advice I appreciate it!
have the imperator. its a amazing mouse in pretty much evry aspect. free dpi settings up to 5600, macros, perfect number of buttons,thumbbuttons customizable, the best mousewheel ever etc.
but 2 things:
-the z axis issue. might wanna read up on that. its much less bad then it sounds , i dont notice it at all. but if youre into lowsens fps then it might be a problem.
-depending on your hand size it might be a bit awkard for a claw grip. its nice for fingertip, for a "halfpalm" with bigger hands and palm with normal -smaller hands. for claw grip i dunno.. def feel it before you buy.
/edit deathadder cant go wrong with. prize is low and the quality is high. if you dont need fancy stuff its always a solid choice.
logitech g500 i never touched. but i had a mx500 for 7 years and if its just half as sturdy then it should be nice too ~
Thank you all for the input. I think I am going with the Razer DeathAdder.
Now I have a second question. At MLG dallas, they used mouse-cord guides. The only one I could find is a Razer Armadillo. Are there any other mouse guides on the market that you would recommend?
Again, I really appreciate the help! TL community is awesome.
^ Can't you just cable tie part of the mouse coard? Why don't you just get a mouse bungee instead? It seems pretty ridiculous to get that when just setting it under a book or something would work. Yes, I understand nice things are nice, but do you really need one? Wouldn't going cordless or getting a mouse bungee do the same thing, better?
Most of the competetive CS players I had played with over the years all just used a piece of tape at the edge of their desk, allowing enough cord for movement without the cord getting in the way. Hipster nerds use a mouse $5 mouse bungee now.
Haha I feel ashamed at being called a hipster nerd I just have an odd desk shape. I understand the "rest it on a book" argument but unfortunately I don't have that much space. I think I found what I am looking for though, I didn't know they were called mouse bungees which is probably why I couldn't find any earlier. I will experiment with the tape or loops before I buy though thank you for those suggestions.
Ooh, EC1 has rubberized top, a bit more DPI, small lift off distance, and is like 15 bucks more. i dont see why the wheel matters, but i dunno, its based on personal prefrence. i would say, maybe EC1 but if you wanna spend less then MX518 its a freaking tank.
It's soo good.. really! The build quality seems good(feels solid), and it's light. It has basically the same shape as the ms intellimouse 3.0, but a better sensor, and a better scroll wheel. No drivers needed, dpi button is underneath so you don't change it by accident. I can do nothing but recommend it
I've used the Razer Black Mamba for almost a year now, and it feels so beautiful in my hands, I will never go to another mouse. When this one dies, I will simply buy another Mamba ^_^
I have a EC1 right now, it's awesome for FPS-games but i feel that it's to big for SC2. Im going to buy Zowies new RTS-mouse Mico which players from Startale have helped developed.
Probably going to be discontinued soon like the G5
Eh, 28 bucks plus 9 for S&H. Not really jumping up and down for it.
Honestly I'm actually tryen to get that exact mouse because my $10 mouse is starting to fail a bit (after about 2 years lol). Just its hard for me to get a mouse over that $20 range.
Cheapest I found anywhere was Newegg with free shipping. Don't suppose anyone knows a place that might be cheaper?
new razer 4G sensor comes with 2 seonsors a optical and a laser sensor optical for good tracking and low lift up distance and the laser for precision lot of dpi and for all mousepads they come in 2 mouses soon the razer mamba4g and imperator 4g and more followed up of course
why lot of pros use small mouses like kinzu abbysus salmosa logitechg1? is it because its lighter to move so you be faster??
the pros use the mouse that fits best on theyr hand grip. i can come here and list of 10 mices u NEED to buy and why, but u can buy all those and doesnt feel natural and say all they suck and i dont understand anything about mices. so i will say to anyone that probally want's a new mouse. is not because it has 10928319028319028301928319028 dpi that it is good, is not because it has 12983190283 macro buttons that it is good. any mice with 400 dpi and usb plug can be "good" u need a mouse that doesnt skip on the tracker (ALMOST any mice since 2006 has this tecnology), that is not too heavy or too low on weight (there are some mices u can adjust it), MOST IMPORTANT u need a mouse that feels good on ur hand when holding it. i use a SS kinzu, this is the best mouse i ever used (only didnt tested the zowie ones), because it feels like he belong in my hands. but my roommate hates it and prefer a Razor DA for the exact same reasons. mices are really a question of testing and geting the one u feel most confortable with. people can use a $5 dell mice and say it the best mouse ever.....
On June 16 2011 01:10 clownzim wrote: any mice with 400 dpi and usb plug can be "good"
I agree with most of what you have said, however I must say that 400 dpi just doesn't cut it anymore. The BW days of the LMO are over...games are no longer 640x480 resolution. To play on standard 1920x1080 you are going to have to jack up the sensitivity to the max and deal with terrible pixel accuracy.
That being said, new mouses get released every year and mouses such as the LMO have been replaced throughout the years by mx300, G1, G3, which ironically aren't really being sold anymore. There will be the zowie mico coming out which seems promising.
On June 16 2011 01:10 clownzim wrote: any mice with 400 dpi and usb plug can be "good"
I agree with most of what you have said, however I must say that 400 dpi just doesn't cut it anymore. The BW days of the LMO are over...games are no longer 640x480 resolution. To play on standard 1920x1080 you are going to have to jack up the sensitivity to the max and deal with terrible pixel accuracy.
That being said, new mouses get released every year and mouses such as the LMO have been replaced throughout the years by mx300, G1, G3, which ironically aren't really being sold anymore. There will be the zowie mico coming out which seems promising.
I am actually still using M-BJ58 at 500Hz polling rate (very reliable optical sensor!). I simply down the graphics resolution (a lot of you might hate doing that) and up a bit the sensitivity setting to solve the issue insufficient dpi (400). The units on the screen IMO are generally large enough such that upping the sensitivity slightly wouldn't really cause inaccuracies of clicking on the units. I use mostly my arm movement to control the mouse, which is not optimal, but really, I don't want to screw up my wrist from using wrist based maneuver as I already suffered a bit from playing D2 too much back in college days. I am currently top division ranked gold hoping to work my way up to platinum when the new season starts.
Regarding to G1 (1000 dpi ver.) . It is actually still widely available in Asia. If you don't mind ordering internationally from a PCHome web store in Taiwan (very reputable even overseas) you can get one with 30 + 10 USD international shipping.
I recently got a Logitech G400 (the successor to the mx518) and I love it. I used a deathadder before this one, and I think my control is much better with the G400. Problem is they weren't in stores when I bought mine, and was only purchasable through the Logitech website. They're supposed to be releasing them to Best Buys like..around this time I believe. They're not SUPER expensive either, $40-50 ish.
if youre just entering the 'gaming mouse' market for the first time, most people would probably recommend the logitech 518 as well as the razer deathadder. these two mice have the largest support in terms of mass positive feedback and itll give you a very good feel on whether or not you like the mice or what you might like better in the future.
me personally my first gaming mouse was a razer diamondback 3g followed by a razer abyssus mouse. i regret neither purchases.
On July 19 2011 02:58 JiYan wrote: if youre just entering the 'gaming mouse' market for the first time, most people would probably recommend the logitech 518 as well as the razer deathadder. these two mice have the largest support in terms of mass positive feedback and itll give you a very good feel on whether or not you like the mice or what you might like better in the future.
me personally my first gaming mouse was a razer diamondback 3g followed by a razer abyssus mouse. i regret neither purchases.
I bought a razer abyssus. It's astonishingly good.
I bought the intellimouse 3.0 5 months back (or so) but have been experiencing some sensor(?) issues lately so am contemplating upgrading to the deathadder. I hear they share a similar design. That or a razer abyssus.
I used the G5 for 5 Years, a few months ago i bought the Steelseries Xai. I think the steelseries mice are the best you can get, my Xai is just so comfortable :D
I owuldn't say that a specific mouse is suited better for gaming in overall. I believe that every person has their own preferations when it comes to mouses therefore rendering it impossible for anyone to say a mouse that everyone would like and would play better with.
One that is comfortable and feels good is the one that i stick with.
I currently switcheng between Logitech MX518 and the Razer Deathadder Respawn since i have 1 of them both.
Fingertip grip with the standard Gx9 precision grip. Very good mouse for RTS. Although I would like to use my Ikari (most comfortable mouse ever, not suited for RTS though) for daily activities, after getting used to high dpi settings, using a lower dpi mouse is just pain in the ass since you have to move your wrist so much.
So my Steelseries Xai passed away today after a bit more than one year... cant use the left mouse button any more , which ofc isnt that great for starcraft. I didnt even smash it or anything, it just stopped working. I read through this thread a bit now, and i think im gonna buy a cheap one from microsoft or logitech now, for like 10-25 €. Lesson learned.
Of all the mouses I use: -Logitech G5 (Blue, 2000DPI) -Razer Deathadder (Mac edition, 1800DPI) -Microsoft Sidewinder (unknown, it was my cousins) -Razer Salmosa (1800DPI) -Steelseries Kinzu (3200DPI) -Steelseries Xai (5000DPI) -Razer Mamba (5600DPI) -Razer Abyssus (3500DPI)
The razer abyssus is my current mouse of choice. I first started off with some random wireless logitech mouse, then moved to a gaming mouse the blue G5. After a while, I caved in and bought the deathadder (fucking sexy feel) and it was THE best thing I used. I heard small mouses are great for RTS so I tried the salmosa, it became the best thing for me honestly. I love my deathadder but the thing was, it wasn't light. I don't mind large/medium size mouses if they aren't heavy. The kinzu was almost perfect but it had a built-in acceleration (which I refuse to condone). I manage to score a xai and used that thing. It's a fantastic mouse, there's no doubt about it but the weight was pulling me down. Then the abyssus came. btw, the sidewinder felt like shit and the mamba is hella legit.
Since using a new monitor at 1080p resolution, 1800dpi on my salmosa (which was my main mouse) doesn't cut it. Since the abyssus is basically an upgraded salmosa, I've made the switch and now that's my new main mouse.
TLDRl; So, I'd recommened the Deathadder, Mamba, Abyssus (or salmosa) or the Xai.
btw I'm using a steelseries qck mousepad on every mouse I used.
Generally there are only 2 major factors you need to consider when getting a mouse: 1. has sufficient DPI for it's uses. This is a combination of sensitivity preference and operating resolution. 2. Suits your mouse grip. Some people might be prefer mice to be more ergonomic or larger, while others might want a small ambidextrous type.
If you're playing only SC1, diablo 2 (or other 10+ year old games at 640x480 resolution) I could see using an 800DPI mouse, but otherwise I would highly recommend a mouse with higher than 800 DPI.
What do you all think about using the new Razer Mamba 4G? I just got it and I still need to get used to it. I was using the Logitech G700 and I'm not sure which I like more.
On August 06 2011 11:20 harDmug wrote: Cant understand how 400 dpi "isn't enough anymore".. i use an Abyssus at 450dpi, 6/11 in windows and 61% in game with 0 issues at 1600x900 -.-
On August 06 2011 11:20 harDmug wrote: Cant understand how 400 dpi "isn't enough anymore".. i use an Abyssus at 450dpi, 6/11 in windows and 61% in game with 0 issues at 1600x900 -.-
I bet you use palm grip. Those who use claw grip and fingertip grip do not have the room to move their arm as they use base of their hand as point of support. Personally I use fingertip grip and I can move my mouse 1 inch up/down maybe 2 inches left/right. So as you can see, if I use a 400dpi mouse, the highest resolution I can play at would be something like 800x400. Which obviously I cannot do lol. Personally I use my g9x at 3600dpi and I have perfect control over my mouse.
Bought 2 Razer Salmosas before they went out of production (actually for 13.37 on a woot deal that was posted on TL before the SC2 beta).
Since then, I've killed one of them simply by sheer use, the coating has worn off and the clicks no longer feel sharp. I've recently unboxed the other "new" one I had, and it really felt as great as the day I got it. It's a superb mouse. It's prediction and somewhat low dpi by modern standards has practically no effect on my gameplay.
I'd recommend the Razer Salmosa (and by extension the Abyssus) to anyone looking for a gaming mouse for SC2 who uses some kind of claw or fingertip grip.
On August 06 2011 11:20 harDmug wrote: Cant understand how 400 dpi "isn't enough anymore".. i use an Abyssus at 450dpi, 6/11 in windows and 61% in game with 0 issues at 1600x900 -.-
I bet you use palm grip. Those who use claw grip and fingertip grip do not have the room to move their arm as they use base of their hand as point of support. Personally I use fingertip grip and I can move my mouse 1 inch up/down maybe 2 inches left/right. So as you can see, if I use a 400dpi mouse, the highest resolution I can play at would be something like 800x400. Which obviously I cannot do lol. Personally I use my g9x at 3600dpi and I have perfect control over my mouse.
I have an Intellimouse, and when playing SC2 i claw grip. 400dpi on 1920x1080, 53% in sc2. No real problems at all. I can get around most of my screen without really having to move my wrist only except when i have to click the minimap, and then i only move it like half an inch.
First of all that is a Palm grip mouse which I think you already know. If you have small or semi-small hands I would certainly not buy this mouse. I bought it and because the size of my hands I just couldn't play with it. I bought a Logitech G9x instead. If you have big hands and you palm grip then I don't think there are any reasons to not get it.
Could anyone be so kind and suggest a mouse that fits me?
I use the fingertip grip and want cable! I don't think i need it, but i want the DPI to be >2999
I'm now using the Roccat Kone, and i'm not especially satisfied with this mouse. I've thought about getting the Razer Abyssus, might that be the right choice for me?
i use them on a funcpad. i have always preferred small mice though - i would have to go with the mx310, kinzu and diamondback for my top three favorites. mx518 is a solid mouse, but too bulky for my likings. using the kinzu right now, surprisingly satisfied with it. i really like optical mice.
On August 07 2011 02:23 L3g3nd_ wrote: While i wouldnt suggest the Kinzu due to its acceleartion, god does it feel nice to hold and move. so light and well shaped, good lord.
And in white, it looks amazing
hmm why is acceleration a problem for kinzu? i disabled it on both my windows and the kinzu settings, and i have never felt acceleration since then. i would never use a mouse with acceleration for starcraft
On August 07 2011 02:23 L3g3nd_ wrote: While i wouldnt suggest the Kinzu due to its acceleartion, god does it feel nice to hold and move. so light and well shaped, good lord.
And in white, it looks amazing
hmm why is acceleration a problem for kinzu? i disabled it on both my windows and the kinzu settings, and i have never felt acceleration since then. i would never use a mouse with acceleration for starcraft
The kinzu has built-in acceleration and prediciton in its sensor. You can't disable it. You can disable in windows and the drivers/software but you can't get rid of what is built-in to the sensor.
I have Roccat Kova+, works perfect with a clawgrip and is lightweight and small. Perfect for RTS imho.
Someone asked about the Spectre: Dont buy it. The laser sensor is actually horrendous and have all sorts of issues. Just do a search here on the forum and you'll find quite abit of info. (I bought it used it and returned it).
you're best off getting a zowie mico as long as you don't use 1600 dpi as there is a problem with the 1600 dpi setting. g3 has the same sensor as the g5, but I don't know how readily avaiable the g3 and g1 are in France.
i use the kinzu, yes theres definitely acceleration and prediction but i got used to it so basically the kinzu is super amazing for me right now. so light and the shape is so godly. ;;
On June 16 2010 19:55 ChApFoU wrote: Any cheap logitech mouse will do the trick. I use this :
Logitech RX250, works like a charm, no useless shit, 1000 dpi and costs 10$, before that I used the loved Mini Optical. Logitech is the way to go, you absolutely DO NOT need a Razer for RTS. Trust me and you will save money.
Quite true... You don't need razor for RTS. But I own DeathAdder and hell..i love that mouse...wouldn't switch for anything else in the world even for browsing.
On August 07 2011 08:53 mardi wrote: you're best off getting a zowie mico as long as you don't use 1600 dpi as there is a problem with the 1600 dpi setting. g3 has the same sensor as the g5, but I don't know how readily avaiable the g3 and g1 are in France.
G1 isnt in production for few years now so its impossible getting it new. (i see them being sold over ebay and such sites but there are Chinese copies so be careful). G3 is realy nice (same shape, little softer clicks and simply slides faster).
I'm surprised no one ever mentions the G9X in these threads.
Best sensor out of any mouse on the market, customizable weight, great for both claw and fingertip grip (due to the removable outer shell), adequately fashionable (adjustable lights to match your preferences and/or other gear), and inherently more reliable than anything Razer ever made.
No prediction, no hardware acceleration, no squeaky wheels and clicks, no issues with any surface, and the standard (read: amazing) Logitech warranty / tech support.
What would you guys recommend as a really good right-handed mouse? I have sort of a palm/fingertip grip.
I don't know whether it's just me, but on ambidextrous mice, I find that my hand is tilted very slightly so that my fingers are pointed towards the upper-right of the mouse, if that makes sense. This wasn't noticeable until I randomly tried a larger ambidextrous mouse and found that I wasn't holding it "correctly" (just in terms of how it appeared).
Also, are we allowed to use this thread for questions like this? Sorry if we're not :x just appeared that the OP was long-gone and the thread was still living on hehe.
On August 08 2011 09:40 Synistre wrote: I'm surprised no one ever mentions the G9X in these threads.
Best sensor out of any mouse on the market, customizable weight, great for both claw and fingertip grip (due to the removable outer shell), adequately fashionable (adjustable lights to match your preferences and/or other gear), and inherently more reliable than anything Razer ever made.
No prediction, no hardware acceleration, no squeaky wheels and clicks, no issues with any surface, and the standard (read: amazing) Logitech warranty / tech support.
The bolded part is untrue. It uses the Avago ADNS-9500 which I believe has something like 10% build in acceleration. Definitely not the best sensor on the market. I've still yet to find anything better than the optical sensor in the Microsoft Intellimouse, but i've yet to try out the deathadder, which seems like it might be a contender.
On August 07 2011 21:33 LogiiK wrote: Okay thanks you, I choose G3 but where to buy a true G3 nine in europe ?
I used to switch from my Logitech G3 to an Abyssus but recently (after a year) I switched back to the G3 for no for no particular reason and now I like it much much more than the Abyssus. I'd like to buy another too but unfortunately the mouse isn't available in Germany at least. Maybe you find it on ebay. (import from China/Korea or something)
On August 08 2011 10:26 Tablespoon wrote: The bolded part is untrue. It uses the Avago ADNS-9500 which I believe has something like 10% build in acceleration. Definitely not the best sensor on the market. I've still yet to find anything better than the optical sensor in the Microsoft Intellimouse, but i've yet to try out the deathadder, which seems like it might be a contender.
The acceleration is more of an "unintentional offset," and it is minimal and very easy to get used to (to the point that most people would never notice it). There's no skipping or angle-snapping, and it has the highest tracking speed by a fair margin. I'd advise everyone to try it before passing judgement.
Does anyone have a good recommendation for me? I've tried the Razer Death Adder, and it's real nice, but it's just too big for my hands. I've got small hands =/ Price range ~$60
On August 09 2011 16:56 katzby wrote: Does anyone have a good recommendation for me? I've tried the Razer Death Adder, and it's real nice, but it's just too big for my hands. I've got small hands =/ Price range ~$60
CM Storm Spawn. $35 Canadian at ncix. Has the updated avago sensor the deathadder uses.
On August 09 2011 16:56 katzby wrote: Does anyone have a good recommendation for me? I've tried the Razer Death Adder, and it's real nice, but it's just too big for my hands. I've got small hands =/ Price range ~$60
On August 08 2011 10:25 Z3kk wrote: What would you guys recommend as a really good right-handed mouse? I have sort of a palm/fingertip grip.
I don't know whether it's just me, but on ambidextrous mice, I find that my hand is tilted very slightly so that my fingers are pointed towards the upper-right of the mouse, if that makes sense. This wasn't noticeable until I randomly tried a larger ambidextrous mouse and found that I wasn't holding it "correctly" (just in terms of how it appeared).
Also, are we allowed to use this thread for questions like this? Sorry if we're not :x just appeared that the OP was long-gone and the thread was still living on hehe.
Ergonomic Right Handed: You have a lot of choices. If you want a right handed mouse that has the best sensor and is widely used by progamers, I'd go with the Razer Deathadder. Even SlayerS Boxer uses it . Anyways, it doesn't have any tracking problems whatsoever. I'd recommend buying either the normal 3.5g version or the black edition (has rubberized sides and no lights). Mainly a palm/claw grip but I personally fingertip it. Guess i have large hands.
There is also the Logitech g9x which is a decent mouse but has mouse acceleration but when I used it, it didn't affect my gameplay in sc2 but did in FPS games. It is also quite heavy and has a hard to press scroll wheel. Also has interchangeable grips to suit your style. Can switch between palm, fingertip, or claw depending on what type of grip you put on it.
Logitech mx518/g400 (g400 new version with new grip and higher dpi). This mouse has prediction but it is also a very very good mouse. One of my favorite shapes of all my gaming mice. Very good build quality and known to last for a long time. Mainly a palm grip.
CM Storm Spawn - Has a great sensor, slightly inferior to the one in the razer deathadder as this has a lower malfunction speed. Meaning that it will stop tracking at a lower speed than the deathadder. Once you pass around 2 m/s speed, the cursor will stop moving though you will be moving y our mouse. Most sc players don't pass 2 m/s so you shouldn't be worried. Claw grip or fingertip grip. Not palmable (too small).
Mionix Naos 5000dpi or 3200dpi version - has a very good shape and very very comfortable. The 5000 has the same sensor as the logitech g9x (so it has acceleration). The 3200 has prediction.
Ambidextrous:
Then there is the Razer Abyssus which is a favorite in the RTS community. If you get one with the upgraded firmware, you'll be great off, but if you get one without upgraded firmware, its pretty bad. There will be jitter when doing diagonal movement (you do this a lot in sc). It was unbearable in fps games and alright in sc2.
Zowie Mico - good sensor but very buggy at 1600 cpi. Flawless at 400 and 800 cpi setting. Has a unique microswitch which is harder to click than normal mice but has a very good feel (not a con, more of a preference).
My recommendation: CM Storm Spawn. It is a claw/fingertip grip mouse that is right hand only. You can get it for $35.98 @ superbiiz.com shipped. Use the coupon code SURRY5.
On August 06 2011 11:20 harDmug wrote: Cant understand how 400 dpi "isn't enough anymore".. i use an Abyssus at 450dpi, 6/11 in windows and 61% in game with 0 issues at 1600x900 -.-
I bet you use palm grip. Those who use claw grip and fingertip grip do not have the room to move their arm as they use base of their hand as point of support. Personally I use fingertip grip and I can move my mouse 1 inch up/down maybe 2 inches left/right. So as you can see, if I use a 400dpi mouse, the highest resolution I can play at would be something like 800x400. Which obviously I cannot do lol. Personally I use my g9x at 3600dpi and I have perfect control over my mouse.
I have perfect control over my mouse using the fingertip grip.. its impossible to palm this mouse. All you have to do is alternate between using your wrist for large swipes and your fingers for controlling small movements. I also relift the mouse alot and am used to it from playing CSS at a low sens for years.
I'm using Logitech G500, and I'm really happy with it. Been using it about for a year now. The only thing bad about it is the colouration fading over where I hold the mouse with my fingers/hands. It feels really good in your palm.
On August 08 2011 10:25 Z3kk wrote: What would you guys recommend as a really good right-handed mouse? I have sort of a palm/fingertip grip.
I don't know whether it's just me, but on ambidextrous mice, I find that my hand is tilted very slightly so that my fingers are pointed towards the upper-right of the mouse, if that makes sense. This wasn't noticeable until I randomly tried a larger ambidextrous mouse and found that I wasn't holding it "correctly" (just in terms of how it appeared).
Also, are we allowed to use this thread for questions like this? Sorry if we're not :x just appeared that the OP was long-gone and the thread was still living on hehe.
There is also the Logitech g9x which is a decent mouse but has mouse acceleration but when I used it, it didn't affect my gameplay in sc2 but did in FPS games. It is also quite heavy and has a hard to press scroll wheel. Also has interchangeable grips to suit your style. Can switch between palm, fingertip, or claw depending on what type of grip you put on it.
Logitech mx518/g400 (g400 new version with new grip and higher dpi). This mouse has prediction but it is also a very very good mouse. One of my favorite shapes of all my gaming mice. Very good build quality and known to last for a long time. Mainly a palm grip.
AFAIK the acceleration in the sensor in g9x and G500 was fixed with a firmware update. Or have I misunderstood? (In which case I will throw away my G500)
On August 08 2011 10:25 Z3kk wrote: What would you guys recommend as a really good right-handed mouse? I have sort of a palm/fingertip grip.
I don't know whether it's just me, but on ambidextrous mice, I find that my hand is tilted very slightly so that my fingers are pointed towards the upper-right of the mouse, if that makes sense. This wasn't noticeable until I randomly tried a larger ambidextrous mouse and found that I wasn't holding it "correctly" (just in terms of how it appeared).
Also, are we allowed to use this thread for questions like this? Sorry if we're not :x just appeared that the OP was long-gone and the thread was still living on hehe.
There is also the Logitech g9x which is a decent mouse but has mouse acceleration but when I used it, it didn't affect my gameplay in sc2 but did in FPS games. It is also quite heavy and has a hard to press scroll wheel. Also has interchangeable grips to suit your style. Can switch between palm, fingertip, or claw depending on what type of grip you put on it.
Logitech mx518/g400 (g400 new version with new grip and higher dpi). This mouse has prediction but it is also a very very good mouse. One of my favorite shapes of all my gaming mice. Very good build quality and known to last for a long time. Mainly a palm grip.
AFAIK the acceleration in the sensor in g9x and G500 was fixed with a firmware update. Or have I misunderstood? (In which case I will throw away my G500)
You misunderstood. The acceleration is built-in to the sensor and can't be fixed. But don't throw away your mouse, it's still a good mouse.
On August 08 2011 10:25 Z3kk wrote: What would you guys recommend as a really good right-handed mouse? I have sort of a palm/fingertip grip.
I don't know whether it's just me, but on ambidextrous mice, I find that my hand is tilted very slightly so that my fingers are pointed towards the upper-right of the mouse, if that makes sense. This wasn't noticeable until I randomly tried a larger ambidextrous mouse and found that I wasn't holding it "correctly" (just in terms of how it appeared).
Also, are we allowed to use this thread for questions like this? Sorry if we're not :x just appeared that the OP was long-gone and the thread was still living on hehe.
There is also the Logitech g9x which is a decent mouse but has mouse acceleration but when I used it, it didn't affect my gameplay in sc2 but did in FPS games. It is also quite heavy and has a hard to press scroll wheel. Also has interchangeable grips to suit your style. Can switch between palm, fingertip, or claw depending on what type of grip you put on it.
Logitech mx518/g400 (g400 new version with new grip and higher dpi). This mouse has prediction but it is also a very very good mouse. One of my favorite shapes of all my gaming mice. Very good build quality and known to last for a long time. Mainly a palm grip.
AFAIK the acceleration in the sensor in g9x and G500 was fixed with a firmware update. Or have I misunderstood? (In which case I will throw away my G500)
You misunderstood. The acceleration is built-in to the sensor and can't be fixed. But don't throw away your mouse, it's still a good mouse.
I see, thanks. It might be a *good* mouse, but if it has acceleration it's not really awesome though
As a follow up to my last question, is there a Logitech mouse or something like that which is completely free of any acceleration or crap like that? I mainly play SC2, but will be playing a lot of BF3, so I don't want any form of acceleration crap for the FPS part. As I understood from mardi's post, even the MX518/G400 has acceleration/prediction. =/
CM Spawn for sure. The ergonomics for fingertip grip are really nice. The ring finger rest makes the mouse very comfortable and maneuverable. The switch they use for the actuation of the two main buttons has excellent tactile feedback. Much better than the MX 518, IMO.
Got my abyssus in today and it's a pretty solid mouse. It's really light weight and it does skimp out on some other features of the Razer mice I'm used to. I wish it had a braided cord. The plastic one is lightweight but it was sort of molded down coming out of the box and it drags on the table slightly. Not much of a drag but since the mouse is so light I can feel it. The shape is terrific, compared to my orochi which had the weird feet on the sides. I just really wish it had the detachable cable like the orochi. The scroll wheel feels great, I think Razer makes the best scroll wheels IMO. I think it can be an extremely good RTS/SC2 mouse since it's so basic but light weight for those mouse movements that are needed.
Works well in OSX just needs to be at 125hz and not 1000hz where it has issues of "lag".
Based on some posts here, and a lot of reviews and research, I decided to buy the CM Spawn mouse, it seemed like the best choice. Now I'll be ready for BF3 too! :D
For sc2 anything will work, people buy nice mice but it's really unnecessary. I've bought a few gaming mice due to the hype (mx518, deathadder etc..) but when I really compared them to my intellimouse or oem logitech mouse I didn't play any better.. It's fine to buy a nice mouse due to the amount of time we use the computer but I wouldn't worry about it, it doesn't matter especially for sc2.
For some people, gaming mice really make a good difference. You'll have better control and it will be easier to get used to a mouse that does what you expect it to do. My resolution was too high to consistently use my IME 3.0 so I would skip pixels. It's a matter of preference and some placebo effect. You think you play better because you have good equipment and some people think you play bad cus your equipment sucks. All about preference.
Hello. A while back i replaced my Logitech mouse optical 1.1a with a g500, but....i really really miss the lightweightness of the 1.1a vs the really heavy (to me) g500. Is there a mouse on the market that has 1800-2000 dpi, while also being really light. Palm grip i guess.
edit: it does not have to be fancy either, but a great, reliable sensor is a must.
There are plenty of them already tbh.. did you really search a little? Even 10 minutes? There are steelseries kinzu, kai, cyborg cat, or if you want a little fancy (but still following the bandwagon) then go for abyssus. There are also logitech but not sure what are lighter than the g500.
IE. Get the 3.0, alternatively get something that feels good and has a dpi that to your liking(since the 3.0 only has 400[500 oc'd?]) i would suggest a deathadder or storm spawn is also really good
On August 11 2011 23:24 koonst wrote: if ou are a claw grip yes dpi numbers matter to you. if your a palmer and make your mouse fly acrossed te mat.. no dpi dont matter.
Less Distance equates to Less Speed equates to High DPI + Low IPS More Distance equates to More Speed equates to Low DPI + High IPS
The new SteelSeries Sensei look alright, with a ridiculously high DPI. It has all the bonus features like LCD which generally means heavy: around 110g apparently.
I like my mice around 40-60g, but the Sensei definitely looks cool.
On August 11 2011 21:18 RaiZ wrote: There are plenty of them already tbh.. did you really search a little? Even 10 minutes? There are steelseries kinzu, kai, cyborg cat, or if you want a little fancy (but still following the bandwagon) then go for abyssus. There are also logitech but not sure what are lighter than the g500.
I did research, a lot. I know about the kinzu's acceleration, the xai is pricy, cats are heavy? and the abyssus is heavier than the g500. Or so that's what i found out so far, my information could be wrong. So i came here hoping for my ideal mouse at a nice price.
edit: my bad abysuss is a lot lighter than g500! hmm!
this is such a personal question it's hard to imagine there is an objective answer. I used an mx518 for what seems like 7 years. I just recently switched to a death adder and I couldn't be happier with both mice.
I've just got the slightly order brother of this handed to me by my step-father, who bought it for pennies somewhere (one third of what it says at the link). Very small, very light, very flat probably laser mouse at 1200 dpi (stated) from a third league company. Cheap make (as in, very) but apparently not a bad sensor. Wonder if it'll work. I've been thinking about trying something like it.
anyone here has the mionix naos 3200 or abyssus and can tell me some good things bout it?
i wanna purchase a mouse next week and am still unsure bout it, got my mind on g400 / abyssus / mionix naos 3200.
i used to have a x7 750bk but didnt like it too much and it died after getting water spilled on it. using my very old and sometimes malfunctioning lachesis which i loved~
I guess it all depends on what kind of grip you use. Myself I'm a claw grip user and I absolutely love my Steel Series Xai, best mouse I've had by far. As far as other grips go I guess MS Intelli 3.0 Razer Death Adder Logitech MX518
On August 21 2011 04:09 Polskaa wrote: Here is what I used for a LONG time. If you have big hands USE these mouses
This is what I use now Tt ESPORTS Black($40)
Seen that one on Allegro lately! How exactly big are your hands, if you don't mind me asking? Mine are really big and I've been looking for a new rodent, which is why. Still undecided between palm-gripping something sufficiently big and fingertip-gripping something small.
As far as getting good stuff for cheap in Poland goes, I'd go and visit Natec. If the mice are as good as keyboards... And I've had one keyboard from them the x-scissors Medusa, and it was great for little money, very good execution too and like high-end finish (in addition to great key feel etc.) for like $17. If the same were true about mice, I guess units comparable to recognisable brands should be available for a quarter of that price.
I think i have to agree with shawabawa. Ive played wc3 before, and was the king of micro with intellimouse 1.1 A, until I bought a new mouse, razor diamondback.... Now i can't micro at all. So now im going to buy a Intellimouse again. I just don't know if i gonna buy the 1.1 version, or the 3.0 version.
On September 29 2011 13:38 wc3ard wrote: I think i have to agree with shawabawa. Ive played wc3 before, and was the king of micro with intellimouse 1.1 A, until I bought a new mouse, razor diamondback.... Now i can't micro at all. So now im going to buy a Intellimouse again. I just don't know if i gonna buy the 1.1 version, or the 3.0 version.
unless you play sc2 on 800x600 4:3 monitor, you will have to learn how to use modern mice :S
I reccomend the Apple Magic Mouse, probably the best mouse on the market right now for RTS gaming. Here is a link, it is an extremely reasonable price for what you get. http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
On September 29 2011 21:54 TaurinE wrote: I reccomend the Apple Magic Mouse, probably the best mouse on the market right now for RTS gaming. Here is a link, it is an extremely reasonable price for what you get. http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
On September 29 2011 21:54 TaurinE wrote: I reccomend the Apple Magic Mouse, probably the best mouse on the market right now for RTS gaming. Here is a link, it is an extremely reasonable price for what you get. http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
I used a cheap 800 dpi logitech mouse and it worked fine for me. The only real reason I up'd to a CM Storm Spawn was because the mouse is really comfortable for claw grip.
I use the logitech G5 and I love it. However it all comes to personal taste and what you are used to. It´s really hard to change, I tried a razer diamondback for a while but found it way to small.
I've had MX518 and Kinzu, and I gotta say Kinzu is 10x better. Not like I was unhappy with my MX518 but after i've changed to Kinzu I feel so much comfortable with my mouse work than before.
On October 22 2011 02:25 -NerdCrusher wrote: Well i heard alot of good things about the logitech g9x so i plan on getting that, do you know any good mousepads for it?
i use mine with a steelseries qck [sc2 kerrigan/zeratul edition]
Intellimouse Explorer I think and MX518 are widely considered the best two mice in the market (yes still) except for extremely high DPI users. Even then......
1800 is a good number for most users. Those 5k mice are nothing but marketing fluff.
400 is a bit low for a max DPI.
Remember the whole plan is to keep Windows Sensitivity on 6/11 and adjust DPI to feel.
DO NOT put DPI at 5600 and then reduce Windows Sensitivity, might as well by a cheap 5 dollar mouse if your going to do that.
On October 26 2011 11:14 Medrea wrote: Intellimouse Explorer I think and MX518 are widely considered the best two mice in the market (yes still) except for extremely high DPI users. Even then......
1800 is a good number for most users. Those 5k mice are nothing but marketing fluff.
400 is a bit low for a max DPI.
Remember the whole plan is to keep Windows Sensitivity on 6/11 and adjust DPI to feel.
DO NOT put DPI at 5600 and then reduce Windows Sensitivity, might as well by a cheap 5 dollar mouse if your going to do that.
Why do you have to keep windows sensitivity at 6/11? Mines on 8 atm, whats the problem there?
On October 26 2011 11:14 Medrea wrote: Intellimouse Explorer I think and MX518 are widely considered the best two mice in the market (yes still) except for extremely high DPI users. Even then......
1800 is a good number for most users. Those 5k mice are nothing but marketing fluff.
400 is a bit low for a max DPI.
Remember the whole plan is to keep Windows Sensitivity on 6/11 and adjust DPI to feel.
DO NOT put DPI at 5600 and then reduce Windows Sensitivity, might as well by a cheap 5 dollar mouse if your going to do that.
Why do you have to keep windows sensitivity at 6/11? Mines on 8 atm, whats the problem there?
I got the Intellimouse 3.0 today after reading all the confusing praise about it.
WOW is this thing a perfect fit. I'm coming from using a mx510 for 7 years (right button broke) and this microsoft mouse is just awesome. I don't like the second side button, but I never use that for anything anyway. This mouse is just light, and fits my hand perfect. 8'' wrist to pointer tip, 4''1/2 knuckle to thumb tip wide. If your hand meets that, get this fucking mouse.
hey guys i am now using razer abyssus but i don't really like it. It is made poorly, not that accurate and has quite a lot of jittering. What is the best claw grip mouse at the moment? Maybe anyone can compare other claw grip to abyssus so maybe it's not worth for me to change mouse.
At the moment I am looking at G9x logitech, anyone compared it to abyssus?
On October 26 2011 11:14 Medrea wrote: Intellimouse Explorer I think and MX518 are widely considered the best two mice in the market (yes still) except for extremely high DPI users. Even then......
1800 is a good number for most users. Those 5k mice are nothing but marketing fluff.
400 is a bit low for a max DPI.
Remember the whole plan is to keep Windows Sensitivity on 6/11 and adjust DPI to feel.
DO NOT put DPI at 5600 and then reduce Windows Sensitivity, might as well by a cheap 5 dollar mouse if your going to do that.
Why do you have to keep windows sensitivity at 6/11? Mines on 8 atm, whats the problem there?
The sensitivity slider does not do what you might think it does. It uses rounding and stuff to skip pixels, and is just generally really terrible. That link someone posted earlier is pretty much the deal there.
ALWAYS 6/11. Lower is sometimes ok but there is a lot to keep in mind. NEVER higher.
Keep windows 6/11. Adjust DPI to feel. That is how it is done.
If you go 5/11 like I used to (but dont anymore, took my own advice), youll be looking at some wonky results that will take time to determine what they mean.
im getting a little tired of my kinzu, its a nice mouse but doesn't fit my style as good as i want. Maybe a little heavy for all the apm in sc2. Anyhow, how does it fair compared to the razer abyssus. I'm thinking of buying the abyssus right now.
just ordered kinzu as one of the smallest gaming decent mice i could fine. hope it turns to be ok with my hand. My current mouse Sidewinder X5 is a joke it self. its kinda huge and u must have BUSTAH RHYMES fingers to fully cover the right left click buttons. The only good thing is its surface underneith it slides perfectly even without mousepad ( dont use one ).
kinzu doesn't slide as well maybe its the weight or the glides not too sure. Might be the design where the front 2 clicks design of the mouse go all the way down like a semi circle whereas logitech g1 mouses i used before didn't and was easier to hold a claw grip. Not too sure if i'm explaining myself clearly. So thats why i wanted to know how the abyssus compared to the kinzu because i know they are similar size. I need a new mouse ><
On October 31 2011 03:52 Alpina wrote: hey guys i am now using razer abyssus but i don't really like it. It is made poorly, not that accurate and has quite a lot of jittering. What is the best claw grip mouse at the moment? Maybe anyone can compare other claw grip to abyssus so maybe it's not worth for me to change mouse.
At the moment I am looking at G9x logitech, anyone compared it to abyssus?
How long have you had your Abyssus? I just got mine a few days ago and at first had the same reaction, but having played ~30 games with it plus random internet browsing am beginning to love it.
Can't really help you with comparisons as the Abyssus is my first gaming mouse, but just thought I'd see how long you've had it and whether or not you're given it a "breaking in" period.
I've been on a journey for the past 9 months to find the perfect SC2 mouse. I've experimented with the mice below. Here are my findings:
(For context, I have relatively big hands with long fingers, however I don't necessarily prefer big mice. I'm a pseudo-fingertip gripper. Shape and weight are bigger issues for me. If too heavy or shape is too weird, I get wrist pain.)
Steelseries Xai Good tracking. Great shape. Left/right clicks are stiffer than I prefer. Relatively heavy.
Razer Deathadder Good tracking. Kinda big and the shape generally feels weird to me (I'm not big on ergo mice). Buttons feel good. Relatively heavy. Overall not good enough for me to use regularly.
Razer Abyssus Ok tracking. Shape is pretty good, although that little ridge that angles up on the side of the left/right buttons really annoys me. You're stuck with only three DPI markers, although 1800 serves me well. Very lightweight, which I love. I'm currently using this mouse due to acceptable tracking, simple shape, and the light weight. I also just bought a Salmosa on ebay to see how it compares.
Zowie Mico Way too small. Buttons hard to click. Tracking mediocre. Not a fan of this one.
Logitech G9X Unique shape but I actually like it. Good customization. Good tracking. Only issue is the weight. Too heavy for me. My wrists get very sore after a long laddering session with this one.
MS Intellimouse 3.0 Ok weight and shape, but DPI way too low. This one is just not an option if you have a high screen resolution and want to play SC2 at a competitive level.
sorry to necro this thread, but im currently looking to get a new mouse, and im wondering which mouse to get? I have about roughly 50-60$ U.S budget for it, Any advice?
On November 05 2011 09:17 jinixxx123 wrote: sorry to necro this thread, but im currently looking to get a new mouse, and im wondering which mouse to get? I have about roughly 50-60$ U.S budget for it, Any advice?
On November 05 2011 09:17 jinixxx123 wrote: sorry to necro this thread, but im currently looking to get a new mouse, and im wondering which mouse to get? I have about roughly 50-60$ U.S budget for it, Any advice?
Depends on how big your hands are. You want to end up finding a mouse that's comfortable for your hands.
On November 05 2011 09:17 jinixxx123 wrote: sorry to necro this thread, but im currently looking to get a new mouse, and im wondering which mouse to get? I have about roughly 50-60$ U.S budget for it, Any advice?
What mouse is best for you is highly dependent on your personal preferences. Here are a few things to consider (from my experience):
1.) How do I hold my mouse? Claw grip, palm grip, fingertip grip, etc.
2) How heavy to I want my mouse? For me, I don't like particularly heavy mice but I do like a mouse that I know is there.
3.) How many buttons do I want? I originally had an abyssus (3 buttons), but soon decided I wanted more.
My experience with mice:
-Steelseries Kinzu: Good mouse, liked it a lot. Very small and lightweight. Eventually returned it because it stopped working, and got...
-Razer Abyssus: Second favorite mouse I've ever owned. Pretty comparable to the Kinzu, I think, except of course for its shape. Found it very good for RTS's.
-Razer Spectre: Terrible mouse. Terrible shape, tracking was wonky, and just felt awful and cheap. Got it for free with my keyboard, probably going to sell it soon.
-Razer Imperator 2012: Love it. It's the mouse I'm using currently, has 7 buttons that are completely customizable and everything. Is a bit pricey for you though (it's ~75-80 USD).
I'm looking for something new. The best mouse I ever had was the Wheel Mouse Optical Blue, but it's just not good enough for larger monitors anymore. Is there a decent alternative for today? Something smallish and light that's good for a fingertip grip?
I used to swear by logitech mices, but i've really grown tierd of their short lifespan. I've had two or three mx510s, one mx518 and im currently using G5, which is starting to break down now. All of the logitech mices always had the button break down first to the point where i'd for example not be able to hold scope/zoom on in fps games. Before any of the logitech mices i had intellimouse 1.1, which STILL works perfectly(but is being used by my sister) so it's over 10 years old now i think. I'm leaning towards buying another intellimouse, but if anyone knows any good, cheap(sub 60€) and durable mices, i'd love to hear about them.
I have a Naga and it works brilliantly for me, but I do like having the keypad on the side to have open/close tabs etc.... If you don't want to do that, probably get something else. This mouse is also rather big (again, personal preference).
On November 27 2011 06:39 JanZai wrote: People saying DA is best mouse is bs imo... to find best mouse for your need is hard route! its like part of you body when playing games...
No, it's actually proven to have the best sensor out there. It has no jitter, no skipping, no acceleration, etc. It has a fantastic sensor and it has a great size and it's very durable but still light weight enough to be useful for low DPI gaming. The only problem I have with it is you can't set custom DPI, only 4 default DPI levels. Probably the closest to the perfect mouse.
On November 27 2011 06:39 JanZai wrote: People saying DA is best mouse is bs imo... to find best mouse for your need is hard route! its like part of you body when playing games...
No, it's actually proven to have the best sensor out there. It has no jitter, no skipping, no acceleration, etc. It has a fantastic sensor and it has a great size and it's very durable but still light weight enough to be useful for low DPI gaming. The only problem I have with it is you can't set custom DPI, only 4 default DPI levels. Probably the closest to the perfect mouse.
Coolermaster Spawn has the same sensor and is a better mouse overall for me.
Abyssus is pretty nice. I dont like the shape of the DA but the abyssus feels good. I don't like that theres a pressure gradient, i.e. it gets easier to click the farther from the base the click occurs. And the light is annoying, but functionally its mostly awesome.
the salmosa pro gaming edition! designed by rts gamers for rts gamers! Its small for some ppl but once i got used to it i couldnt go back to my death adder.
So, I have an MX518. It was cheap, it's reliable, has plenty of functionality and degrees of sensitivity...
I guess what I'm wondering here is, what exactly are people paying more money for? I understand people preferring a different grip or something, but what exactly do people think they are getting that's better on the expensive mice? Are people really convinced they somehow perform better?
I know two people who have had their razer's break on them as well. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
I'm planning on buying a Steelseries Sensei. They support e-sports so I support them!
Plus the Razer Deathadder I have now just didn't seem to last long. The rubber coating is starting to degrade and its getting irreversibly sticky. No amount of cleaning brings its back.
Not necessarily because of all the buttons (Although I do use some of them for building hotkeys which is very nice) but mainly because of the shape + ring finger rest which suits itself towards the claw/finger grip style.
On January 29 2012 09:10 liberal wrote: So, I have an MX518. It was cheap, it's reliable, has plenty of functionality and degrees of sensitivity...
I guess what I'm wondering here is, what exactly are people paying more money for? I understand people preferring a different grip or something, but what exactly do people think they are getting that's better on the expensive mice? Are people really convinced they somehow perform better?
I know two people who have had their razer's break on them as well. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Most normal mice don't have DPI setting features, etc. That's the main draw (imo). Can't stand having a mouse set at 400DPI. Then again I can't stand the mice with dpi settings at 900/1800/3600 or the like because those just aren't my settings. I use a G9x (without the grip). Love the drivers because I can set dpi anywhere I want to. But I think beyond everything personalizibility is the largest draw to gaming mice.
Hi all you gosu sc2 players. I want to ask your opinion on mouse choice
I'm currently using a deathadder and recently ahd a feel of the steelseries kana. It felt much lighter and I feel that it suits my fingertip mouse grip than the deathadder(this is just based on feel, and not tested with actual playing)
So any views on what mouse is best for my type of grip? I feel that i need a light mouse. Ive tried the kinzu but it felt kinda heavy(eventhough it is almost as light as the kana-the pad maybe?). Ive never tried the xai, ikari or sensei but i feel that the last two is out of my budget.
On February 20 2012 23:15 abangmozek wrote: Hi all you gosu sc2 players. I want to ask your opinion on mouse choice
I'm currently using a deathadder and recently ahd a feel of the steelseries kana. It felt much lighter and I feel that it suits my fingertip mouse grip than the deathadder(this is just based on feel, and not tested with actual playing)
So any views on what mouse is best for my type of grip? I feel that i need a light mouse. Ive tried the kinzu but it felt kinda heavy(eventhough it is almost as light as the kana-the pad maybe?). Ive never tried the xai, ikari or sensei but i feel that the last two is out of my budget.
Your thoughts are much appreciated
I think Steelseries mouse in general have a problem with acceleration. I am not sure about Kana V2 though. I use a claw/fingertip grip, and I'm very happy with my CM Storm Spawn.
On January 29 2012 09:10 liberal wrote: So, I have an MX518. It was cheap, it's reliable, has plenty of functionality and degrees of sensitivity...
I guess what I'm wondering here is, what exactly are people paying more money for? I understand people preferring a different grip or something, but what exactly do people think they are getting that's better on the expensive mice? Are people really convinced they somehow perform better?
I know two people who have had their razer's break on them as well. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
As someone who does not only play SC2 but lots of arena shooters as well (Quake, UT, Warsow, etc...), the answer is obvious: max speed and lack of acceleration.
Take a cheap mouse, disable acceleration, set it to a low sensitivity and try swiping the full length of your mousepad (in my case: 40cm) as fast as you can. Chances are, it'll skip. Badly. There's a good chance it'll add all kinds of funky extra up/down movements, as well as possibly ending up in the exact opposite of the direction you were going. This is what happens when you move a mouse past it's malfunction speed - the tracking algorithm stops working properly and you get funky results.
The difference between my Deathadder (favorite mouse of all time, by far - just bought a spare in case they ever go out of production) and a random no-brand mouse or cheaper gaming mouse is the sensor. So far, I've tried the DA on ~8 different surfaces, ranging from Everglide Titan, Qck+, Qck+ Heavy, Exactmat, Qpads, my current Roccat Sense, standard dollar store mousepad and even wooden desks, and I literally cannot get it to skip. I can't move my arm fast enough to make it lose track. This is invaluable if you're a low-sensitivity player like me.
Check this link for a comparison of the 'control speed' and 'malfunction speeds' of different popular mice. It's a bit of an outdated test, but most of the classics are still on there. As you can see, while the malfunction speed of the MX518 is close to the DA's, it's 'control speed' is almost 50% lower, meaning it will start behaving badly well before the DA ever does.
DA doesn't have any negative or positive acceleration (mouse sensitivity varying by movement speed) on a hardware/driver level either (something both the 518, 510 and IE3.0 suffer from), so your mouse movement is always going to be 1:1 to your cursor movement, which greatly increases comfort and muscle memory in my experience.
That's not to say that a cheaper mouse cannot have all these desirable properties. For all I know Walmart sells a $5 mouse with the same sensor/hardware as the Deathadder. Chances are though - they don't. Similarly, very expensive mice can have horrible tracking. The Razer Copperhead was similarly priced to the DA, yet it scores almost 60% lower on all aspects in that test, being one of the early laser sensor mice.
I am using a logitech g500, i like it more than the old a4 :D, i even find it more comfortable than the deathadder, as i have had the pleasure to work with a deathadder a bit, still i think the mx1100 i had is a bit more comfortable but unfortunately it is pretty heavy and has 1600 dpi only.
On February 20 2012 17:37 Spiner wrote: Hi high master player. I use The Razer Naga.
Not necessarily because of all the buttons (Although I do use some of them for building hotkeys which is very nice) but mainly because of the shape + ring finger rest which suits itself towards the claw/finger grip style.
Claw/finger grip = better for RTS
One grip is not better than another for RTS. It depends on mouse size and the size of the persons hand. Maybe its best for you.
On February 20 2012 17:37 Spiner wrote: Hi high master player. I use The Razer Naga.
Not necessarily because of all the buttons (Although I do use some of them for building hotkeys which is very nice) but mainly because of the shape + ring finger rest which suits itself towards the claw/finger grip style.
Claw/finger grip = better for RTS
One grip is not better than another for RTS. It depends on mouse size and the size of the persons hand. Maybe its best for you.
There is some merit to that, though. Claw/fingertip is very well suited to small tweaks, erratic patterns of motion (zigzag, jump to minimap, click, select units in middle of screen, click, etc...) and generally a higher sensitivity playstyle than palm grip is.
Palm grip is very good at stability, high speeds, big motions, accuracy, etc because you use your arm and wrist for mouse control (as opposed to fingers/hand). All stuff that is very important if you're trying to get 65%+ accuracy with a lightning gun, but not very important when you need to select units all over the screen quickly. How you get your cursor from point A to point B is not important in RTS, in FPS it matters a lot.
I'm not saying you can't play RTS with a palm grip (in fact I palm, myself), I'm just saying that fingertip/claw with a light, smallish mouse is better suited to the kind of movements you perform in an RTS game, whereas the stability of palm grip and a slightly more heavy mouse/big pad are a lot more beneficial to FPS type movements. Only reason I don't switch is because of the risk of carpal tunnel and the fact that I've gotten *so* used to my current setup and sensitivity that I can navigate screens on my computer with my eyes closed. Switching my sens and grip would mess all that up.
On February 20 2012 23:15 abangmozek wrote: Hi all you gosu sc2 players. I want to ask your opinion on mouse choice
I'm currently using a deathadder and recently ahd a feel of the steelseries kana. It felt much lighter and I feel that it suits my fingertip mouse grip than the deathadder(this is just based on feel, and not tested with actual playing)
So any views on what mouse is best for my type of grip? I feel that i need a light mouse. Ive tried the kinzu but it felt kinda heavy(eventhough it is almost as light as the kana-the pad maybe?). Ive never tried the xai, ikari or sensei but i feel that the last two is out of my budget.
Your thoughts are much appreciated
Get the Kana then. I'm using it and I love it to death. I love the shape so much. So long as you feel it suits your grip, get it. Don't listen to all those so called 'tech-snobs' who tell you that their mouse is far superior and end up buying something that you hate. The Ikari is a really big mouse, more for claw gripping. The Xai and Sensei are bigger than the Kana, and they use a laser sensor which has quite a bit of hardware acceleration as compared to the optical sensor of the Kana. Furthermore, anecdotal reports suggest that the Xai comes with a lot of problems, driver issues etc. Kana doesn't really have too too much prediction or hardware accel, so its pretty good, however it doesn't track best at higher CPIs for some reason, although contrary to popular belief, its 1600 and 3200 CPI settings are true CPI and not interpolated.
On February 20 2012 23:15 abangmozek wrote: Hi all you gosu sc2 players. I want to ask your opinion on mouse choice
I'm currently using a deathadder and recently ahd a feel of the steelseries kana. It felt much lighter and I feel that it suits my fingertip mouse grip than the deathadder(this is just based on feel, and not tested with actual playing)
So any views on what mouse is best for my type of grip? I feel that i need a light mouse. Ive tried the kinzu but it felt kinda heavy(eventhough it is almost as light as the kana-the pad maybe?). Ive never tried the xai, ikari or sensei but i feel that the last two is out of my budget.
Your thoughts are much appreciated
Get the Kana then. I'm using it and I love it to death. I love the shape so much. So long as you feel it suits your grip, get it. Don't listen to all those so called 'tech-snobs' who tell you that their mouse is far superior and end up buying something that you hate. The Ikari is a really big mouse, more for claw gripping. The Xai and Sensei are bigger than the Kana, and they use a laser sensor which has quite a bit of hardware acceleration as compared to the optical sensor of the Kana. Furthermore, anecdotal reports suggest that the Xai comes with a lot of problems, driver issues etc. Kana doesn't really have too too much prediction or hardware accel, so its pretty good, however it doesn't track best at higher CPIs for some reason, although contrary to popular belief, its 1600 and 3200 CPI settings are true CPI and not interpolated.
I like how you go off on a tangent about tech-snobs, then fill the rest of your post with tech specs. Other than that, yes. If you cannot feel a problem with the mouse then any neg/pos accel or skipping doesn't matter, since it doesn't bother you anyway. Just go with one that feels good in your hand.
On February 20 2012 23:15 abangmozek wrote: Hi all you gosu sc2 players. I want to ask your opinion on mouse choice
I'm currently using a deathadder and recently ahd a feel of the steelseries kana. It felt much lighter and I feel that it suits my fingertip mouse grip than the deathadder(this is just based on feel, and not tested with actual playing)
So any views on what mouse is best for my type of grip? I feel that i need a light mouse. Ive tried the kinzu but it felt kinda heavy(eventhough it is almost as light as the kana-the pad maybe?). Ive never tried the xai, ikari or sensei but i feel that the last two is out of my budget.
Your thoughts are much appreciated
Get the Kana then. I'm using it and I love it to death. I love the shape so much. So long as you feel it suits your grip, get it. Don't listen to all those so called 'tech-snobs' who tell you that their mouse is far superior and end up buying something that you hate. The Ikari is a really big mouse, more for claw gripping. The Xai and Sensei are bigger than the Kana, and they use a laser sensor which has quite a bit of hardware acceleration as compared to the optical sensor of the Kana. Furthermore, anecdotal reports suggest that the Xai comes with a lot of problems, driver issues etc. Kana doesn't really have too too much prediction or hardware accel, so its pretty good, however it doesn't track best at higher CPIs for some reason, although contrary to popular belief, its 1600 and 3200 CPI settings are true CPI and not interpolated.
I like how you go off on a tangent about tech-snobs, then fill the rest of your post with tech specs. Other than that, yes. If you cannot feel a problem with the mouse then any neg/pos accel or skipping doesn't matter, since it doesn't bother you anyway. Just go with one that feels good in your hand.
I was just telling him the differences between the Kana, and the other mice that he was thinking about, Sensei, Ikari and Xai. There was barely any mention of so called 'tech specs'. I just told him that the Kana is smaller than the Xai, Ikari and Sensei, and that it tracks poorly on high sens. Read people's posts properly before going on blasting people for no reason.
On February 20 2012 23:15 abangmozek wrote: Hi all you gosu sc2 players. I want to ask your opinion on mouse choice
I'm currently using a deathadder and recently ahd a feel of the steelseries kana. It felt much lighter and I feel that it suits my fingertip mouse grip than the deathadder(this is just based on feel, and not tested with actual playing)
So any views on what mouse is best for my type of grip? I feel that i need a light mouse. Ive tried the kinzu but it felt kinda heavy(eventhough it is almost as light as the kana-the pad maybe?). Ive never tried the xai, ikari or sensei but i feel that the last two is out of my budget.
Your thoughts are much appreciated
Get the Kana then. I'm using it and I love it to death. I love the shape so much. So long as you feel it suits your grip, get it. Don't listen to all those so called 'tech-snobs' who tell you that their mouse is far superior and end up buying something that you hate. The Ikari is a really big mouse, more for claw gripping. The Xai and Sensei are bigger than the Kana, and they use a laser sensor which has quite a bit of hardware acceleration as compared to the optical sensor of the Kana. Furthermore, anecdotal reports suggest that the Xai comes with a lot of problems, driver issues etc. Kana doesn't really have too too much prediction or hardware accel, so its pretty good, however it doesn't track best at higher CPIs for some reason, although contrary to popular belief, its 1600 and 3200 CPI settings are true CPI and not interpolated.
I like how you go off on a tangent about tech-snobs, then fill the rest of your post with tech specs. Other than that, yes. If you cannot feel a problem with the mouse then any neg/pos accel or skipping doesn't matter, since it doesn't bother you anyway. Just go with one that feels good in your hand.
I was just telling him the differences between the Kana, and the other mice that he was thinking about, Sensei, Ikari and Xai. There was barely any mention of so called 'tech specs'. I just told him that the Kana is smaller than the Xai, Ikari and Sensei, and that it tracks poorly on high sens. Read people's posts properly before going on blasting people for no reason.
Lol, cool down mate, was just a joke. That aside, you did mention practically every aspect there is to a mouses performance. Type of sensor, hardware accel, build quality, driver issues, prediction, performance at different precision settings, interpolation, ... you can hardly get more into the tech without describing individual electronics components. Especially when most people pick their mice based on "ooh, pretty lights!".
Well, my basic MS optical ive been using for years finally broke. I'm almost glad. As much as I loved ole' trusty, i was kind of getting sick of playing SC2 at like 2/3rds the resolution my screen could handle since the DPI was so shitty. Tis a bittersweet moment right now...
Sorry I am diggin this Steelseries Sensei :D I had the NAOS 5000 from Mionix DONT BUY THE MOUSE it sucks and so does there TECH support they are NOT for esports so FUCK em :D
On February 20 2012 08:06 armalite wrote: Zowie Mico, developed with players from StarTale, best mouse for RTS i ever had.
The mouse feet are horrible on this mouse but the mouse it's self is awesome, i ended up just removing the feet and buying strips of Teflon now it's so much beater to use on my pad. Logitech G100 is also another decent mouse, slightly bigger then the MiCo,
mm the kinzu is not good for starcraft, it has double click issue and also innaccurate sensor, unless you have really slow apm, I would never get the Kinzu, I bought it and regret it because I can never use it.
On February 24 2012 20:17 GGzerG wrote: mm the kinzu is not good for starcraft, it has double click issue and also innaccurate sensor, unless you have really slow apm, I would never get the Kinzu, I bought it and regret it because I can never use it.
Did you get the old Kinzu or the new Kinzu? I heard that the Kinzu V2 Pro Edition has most of the problems from its predecessors fixed.
On February 24 2012 20:17 GGzerG wrote: mm the kinzu is not good for starcraft, it has double click issue and also innaccurate sensor, unless you have really slow apm, I would never get the Kinzu, I bought it and regret it because I can never use it.
Did you get the old Kinzu or the new Kinzu? I heard that the Kinzu V2 Pro Edition has most of the problems from its predecessors fixed.
The jumping issue is fixed, but it still has a fairly low malfunction speed which is problematic for low sens players (less so in SC2 than other games, though), while also not being very good at high CPI settings.
Most people are probably better off with the Kana than the Kinzu v2, for $5 more. It has cheaper feet and buttons, but it's got much better tracking (with the same sensor), plus the extra buttons.
i bought the kinzu v2 yesterday and since then i lost every game, i adjusted the dpi and the mouse sensitivity and i feel steell unconfortable...and suggestions? maybe i need just a week or two but maybe its because of the mouse..
On April 12 2012 00:06 swarley91 wrote: i bought the kinzu v2 yesterday and since then i lost every game, i adjusted the dpi and the mouse sensitivity and i feel steell unconfortable...and suggestions? maybe i need just a week or two but maybe its because of the mouse..
It's probably because the Kinzu has built in acceleration. That is, the faster you move the mouse the more the firmware increases the speed of the mouse cursor. While some people like it, most people don't as it drastically reduces the accuracy of the cursor and makes it difficult too build up muscle memory as the cursor doesn't always respond exactly the same to mouse input.
I loved my G9X despite how it was seriously too short for my fingers. Got myself the "id" grip for palming, which allowed me to play ME2-3 with more comfort and precision than the "precision" or "wide load" grips. But I hadn't played SC2 much with that grip, if it all, before the mouse died on me again and I feel this time it won't get up (it has that inexplicable habit of dying for a period of time). What I've discovered after using the G9X for a longer while is that I now hold and move my old A4-tech X-478K (form-factor is close to the DeathAdder and the sensor to the MX-518) in a different way, as in more aggressive with it and still more in control. It does feel a bit weird on a hard plastic mat (4HD from SS). At any rate, I'm finding in me a new love for this mouse. I've removed the weights and the plastic cover of the weights section to reduce weight as far as I can because of the RSI but it does move better, with a lovely fluidity and all, when you use the full set of weights (I also use a double layer of sliders, for some reason two has always worked better for me than one).
I'd been looking forward to the Kana and the Kinzu v2 but I'm worried about the reports of poor behaviour at higher DPI. Interpolated or not, poor traction at officially advertised DPIs is not acceptable, especially considering that just getting a cheap mouse perfectly suited to one's hand (after trying a million) and doing essentially the same stuff as interpolation by moving the sliders can still get you not bad performance and comfort. Comfort is more important than technical details anyway. Good luck being able to make full use of non-accel, non-prediction etc. in an RTS game when your palm or finger muscles are screaming or you're just tired to forced to keep shifting your grip. I'm really not sure if I want to spend money on Kinzu v2 or Kana just to try them and be disappointed. Could try the Saphira from TT (it has prediction but anyway) but with the 4HD hard mat I should probably stick with laser mice (plus, the G9X did feel more precise when microing than my old mouse). But I'm beginning to think I like optical sensors better after all (not for the same reasons as initially when you simply avoided them because they were bad). Might end up getting an Ikari (I really like the way it's longer on the right side while being a right-handed mouse, that is well thought)... or simply keeping the A4-Tech for palming and getting a light-weight fingertipper/claw one for RTS.
Basically, I want something that tracks well, is predictable, RSI-friendly, friendly to big palms and long fingers, two buttons and a wheel, no silly stuff on the sides, sensor right in the centre. And definitely not the weight of the G9X (and I'm talking without the weights). There is some luck finding this among optical mice but I can't name a single laser one to fit the description. At least as far as gaming mice are concerned. I've played SC2 with some office laser mice that felt great.
I love my Razer Naga for SC2. I don't use macro keys or anything that requires special software, so as to keep my hand habits tournament legal should I play in one. I simply prefer it because it gives me access to 1 through 0 keys for hotkeying quickly. I still use my keyboard for switching between groups.... but for making and adding to hotkeys, nothing beats it, as you never have to do the "stretch" to hit those awkward 6 through 0 keys. I highly recommend it!
EDIT: I love the numpad funtions, but even if you ignore it completely, it still has the most comfortable grip I've ever felt in a mouse, with a nice ringfinger rest for finger/claw grip (which is very stable imo) and the slight right tilt of it is very ergonomic. Plus it has that classic razer finger dip on the main mouse buttons which is ergo and makes clicking speedy, and finally it is a bit chunkier, but still not heavy, giving you plenty to hold onto, while still being able to throw it around quickly since it's light. I give it a 10/10 for SC2!
On July 19 2012 14:37 tahmias wrote: If you like the MS 3.0 you're gonna love Zowie EC1
Best mouse I've ever owned, and I've been around a fair bunch of steelseries, logitech, razer and MS mice.
I've heard so much about both it and the MSIE that I might as well give it a go just to experience the thing. You think it should be better than Kana/Kinzu v2 or TT's Azurues/Saphira more classical offer?
If only it did NOT have the side buttons! (Although I've been experimenting with those lately.)
If you play at 800 dpi or below then the steelseries kana is amazing. The sensor gets terribly inaccurate if you go above 800 though, luckily that seems to be the perfect fit for me.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/111/mousen.png)
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.![[image loading]](http://team-reverence.org/catalog/images/copperhead.jpg)
Its perfect for the claw grip too.![[image loading]](http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Sources/Logitech%20G1/Images/7944.jpg)
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But it lasted 2 years until then)![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21YHd%2B3K9FL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
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