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On February 19 2009 09:42 Integra wrote:
MBS is roughly as intuitive as SBS (this is based in lart part on the players expectations, which of the two is more intuitive).
No, a person who only played with MBS will find SBS totally BS; a person who only played with SBS
will find MBS totally BS, both parties will state a valid reason for their standpoint and both will find
their way more right, true or as you put it more "intuitive"
But thats not what I'm arguing. MBS even if intuitive, lowers the skill ceiling of competive play. Blizzard realizes this, hence the race specific macro gimmicks. And the macro gimmicks are themselves less intuitive than SBS.
What skill ceiling, SC1 has been around for 10 years and it has evolved constantly that has nothing to do with the game mechanics; such as changing maps and metagame strategey changes
you didnt even argue against anything I said
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Wow, I have never seen so many blue responses.
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I'm loving these changes! The potential implications these mechanics have go beyond macro and that's exactly how it should be. Some of the things already mentioned:
- cloaked zeal rush / cloaking from proxy dark pylon / cloaking entire army in late game / cloaking for stronger ramp blocks
- energy transfer to fresh units for immediate use
- dropping mules over ramp blocks for scouting / mule bombs on tanks
- specific builds that use supply drops to refine BO timing
The larva mechanic will surely change BOs drastically, although I don't see how it's such a big economic advantage compared to the dark pylon and the mule, do you?
This batch got me excited over SC2 again!
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On February 19 2009 11:04 Savio wrote:
Wow, I have never seen so many blue responses.
I Know!! Someone needs to count, I'm sure this is a Blizzard record.
Hopefully we get a second Battlereport soon. Dustin said he would work on the Battlereport after the new unit models and mechanics are in the game.
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don't know about you, zerg looks so much better with the new hatchery, the old one was just terrible.
Then again, the new look makes the existing units looks so much worse.
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@fusionsdf: I only wanted to clarify certain things in your post.
Hopefully we get a second Battlereport soon. Dustin said he would work on the Battlereport after the new unit models and mechanics are in the game.
They better show a battlereport with Zerg, I want to see the new graphics!
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MBS (Intuitive, Lowers skill ceiling) + macro gimmicks (Not as intuitive, Raises skill ceiling)
Well, while macro gimmicks are probably not as intuitive, it is at the same level as the rest of the game. It is no more complicated than storm or plaguuu or building interceptors. Considering the mainstream RTS audience, they'd understand it in 5 minutes. Frankly, someone that couldn't understand those concepts have no place winning MP games. They can stick to SP until they learned the fundamental basics of the RTS genre.
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Dark pylon is just asking for cheese, as a hidden pylon can mean a cloaked unit in your base early, and mana transfer + nullifier can mean early mass casting, perhaps even locking unaware players in their base via force field. At the minimum, at its tech position it is far to easy to ramp block + cloak + 1gate tech safely on narrow ramp maps. At mid tech level, it can result in early cloaked phase prisms that can do all sorts of nasty stuff that a cloaked transport can do. DT rushes would seem so weak in comparison to this low tech competitor...
The terran abilities don't seem to have that much potential in changing how the game is played. This could be changed if the dropped supply have Large HP to produce the "instant wall in" or mules gets some construction ability. (give it nighthawk autocannon turret?) The huge importance of scans (see d.pylon) means the macro based abilities would be relatived unused and it is possible that no one would build planetory fortresses except in rare situations.
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On February 19 2009 10:52 IdrA wrote:
i dont know if theyve explained it but its an acronym for something, the blue guys always write MULEs when they talk about it
does sound pretty retarded though
actually only cydra caps it like that, karune doesnt
who knows
Probably a reference to the old Atari game M.U.L.E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E.
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Question: what happens if a fungal infestated unit is picked up into a transport, or does the unit loses the ability to be controlled/loaded? What happens if a fungal infested unit is burrowed?
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yea, that pretty much nails the origin behind MULE.
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United States7166 Posts
wow dark pylon only 150 minerals currently.. sounds like a good macro build will be to keep making dark pylons near your minerals until you can have Proton Charge on all your workers all the time.
also making your units invisible shortly after gateway sounds a bit fast, hello dark zealot rush (this of course depends on how much energy Null Shield costs, and how long units stay invisible for)
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a lot of people are getting really worked up about the cloak ability of the Dark pylon, I don't think we have anywhere near enough information on it to make a decision. We don't know if it has a range of casting (ie: perhapse the unit must be within range of that pylons power, add in travel time of the unit and its not going to get much use out of the cloak). Everything will be subject to balance.
by the time you actually get enough pylons to cloak an entire decently sized attack force, you enemy should have detection, so mass cloak doesn't seem very viable. And besides, if your using all your dark pylons to cloak your army it means you can't afford to use it on your probes or to recharge casters.
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with a mighty push from her bowels, the Queen creates a cluster of organic tumors that generate additional creep.
sigged
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On February 19 2009 11:23 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2009 10:52 IdrA wrote:
i dont know if theyve explained it but its an acronym for something, the blue guys always write MULEs when they talk about it
does sound pretty retarded though
actually only cydra caps it like that, karune doesnt
who knows Probably a reference to the old Atari game M.U.L.E. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E.
A Multiple Use Labor Element, the eponymous M.U.L.E.
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Mule_box.jpg)
PS- I like a lot of these changes. However I don't think I like the patchwork macro fixes. I think out of all 3, the MULEs are the best because not only do they increase mining but they can be used to scout and repair/fight in battle etc.
like the acronym implies and then some.
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what the fuck is going on in that picture?
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M.U.L.E = Macro Under Lotta Excrement
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graphics are looking much better
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Wow I'm really liking these changes. Obviously I'm wondering how it'll all balance out (particularly the Terran changes requiring the same energy as comsats), but I'm optimistic.
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On February 19 2009 14:37 Kips wrote:
M.U.L.E = Macro Under Lotta Excrement
lol nice first post, welcome to TL
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"Don't forget, Reavers will still be seen in single player as well as the map editor."
DT's were seen during the single player campaign in StarCraft 1. Then came along the
expansion pak and BOOM! You could biuld DT's. Something tells me the reaver will make a comeback in SC2 exp pack (Yes, I know I'm thinking way to far ahead).
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EPT
