EPTBut everything else is so imbalanced too that it will just balance itself, I hope.
Plus it's now a late game unit so it'll be less often used.
Wait... damn... I loved the lurker :/
[O] Q&A 49 - Page 10
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
But everything else is so imbalanced too that it will just balance itself, I hope. Plus it's now a late game unit so it'll be less often used. Wait... damn... I loved the lurker :/ | ||
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251
United States1401 Posts
Like oh here's some reavers, sweet COOLLLOSSSUUSSSSSSSSS RrarRharrharhrhrahgh :destroys all reavers: | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
Looks like they're going in the right direction taking it away from being cartoony. Edit: #6 WHAT THE FUCK? Hey let's take micro out of the game too by just making it so the AI of the game will only attack what you want it to attack! No more messy target firing! | ||
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flabortaster
Philippines99 Posts
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VorcePA
United States1102 Posts
That said, I'm really starting to get sick of all these abilities. It's like every unit and building has some sort of special ability. The worst is that several of these are "single target" abilities. Starcraft and single target abilities aren't terribly cooperative. Spells like broodling, dmatrix, hallucination, blind, and restoration get little if any use. Another thing that's kinda buggin' me is how everything does stupid amounts of splash damage. Lurkers now have a range of 9? Ultras now have cleave (and a 200 HP increase)? BCs have an AoE ground attack? Command Centers have a medium range splash attack?! This is kind of ridiculous. I don't know how low HP units like the marine or the zergling are going to be useful beyond tier 1.5, and if memory serves me correctly, Blizzard was aiming for low tier units to have some sort of viable use late game (otherwise why would they give marines a shield at tier 3?). I wouldn't say Blizzard is going 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but more like 1 step forward, 1 step to the side, and then 1 step back; It's not exactly better... it's just different. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 19 2009 19:34 flabortaster wrote: What happens when a MULE shuts off when its carrying resources? Also, in late game, wouldn't it be more efficient to have a DPylon dedicated for the probes set in autocast? I t suddenly becomes trivial. Unless they'll make the DPylon a lot more expensive. Alot of these mechanics becomes a must do in the late game. I mean, wouldn't you want one CC constantly supplying Depots, or another one dropping MULEs? the game doesnt have autocast, as of the last time they talked about it just smart cast, ie if you select 10 temps and tell them all to storm one spot only one will do it. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On February 19 2009 19:46 VorcePA wrote: I like a lot of the updates that have been made from this Q&A. That said, I'm really starting to get sick of all these abilities. It's like every unit and building has some sort of special ability. The worst is that several of these are "single target" abilities. Starcraft and single target abilities aren't terribly cooperative. Spells like broodling, dmatrix, hallucination, blind, and restoration get little if any use. Another thing that's kinda buggin' me is how everything does stupid amounts of splash damage. Lurkers now have a range of 9? Ultras now have cleave (and a 200 HP increase)? BCs have an AoE ground attack? Command Centers have a medium range splash attack?! This is kind of ridiculous. I don't know how low HP units like the marine or the zergling are going to be useful beyond tier 1.5, and if memory serves me correctly, Blizzard was aiming for low tier units to have some sort of viable use late game (otherwise why would they give marines a shield at tier 3?). I wouldn't say Blizzard is going 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but more like 1 step forward, 1 step to the side, and then 1 step back; It's not exactly better... it's just different. There's nothing wrong with single target abilities. Irradiate is probably one of the most useful abilites in the game, and defensive matrix gets a decent amount of use. The reason why most single target abilities fail is simply because they weren't balanced properly. They're either too weak (Blind) or too expensive to tech to (Lockdown). Besides, you're making massive judgements about balance in a game you've never played. It seems overwhelming because it's a lot of information at once, but it'll all work out during beta testing. | ||
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flabortaster
Philippines99 Posts
This would be solved entirely by scrapping the Dpylon and putting the spells in the Nexus. The Nexus is practically useless as is compared to the CC and Hatchery and putting the abilities on the Nexus would prevent dedicated Dpylons for each spell. | ||
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flabortaster
Philippines99 Posts
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On February 19 2009 20:06 flabortaster wrote: Photon Charge is an ability you want to be activated all the time on your probes. If you want to save energy for the other 2 abilities, then just shut off auto-cast. Even during WarCraft 3, they asked Blizz what abilites would have auto-cast. They said abilities that you obviously want casted all the time. Like bloodlust, slow etc..If you want the mana/energy for other spells, just shut off autocast. Or just have one group always on auto cast and another to use the other spells/abilities. Sure the spells would compete with energy, but late game, all you need is have one of each dedicate itself to a certain spell. One Dpylon for the probes, another for cloaking and another constantly powering you spellcasters. It seems okay for early-mid game but a bit of a stretch for late mid game-late game. This would be solved entirely by scrapping the Dpylon and putting the spells in the Nexus. The Nexus is practically useless as is compared to the CC and Hatchery and putting the abilities on the Nexus would prevent dedicated Dpylons for each spell. Putting the spells on the Nexus would be a step backwards. Nexuses are too durable to destroy easily, and there would be no viable way to keep the protoss from using its abilities. For example, if I raid a protoss base, dark pylons give me a viable target to go after. I can destroy his probes (cutting off economy), and destroy his DPylons (cutting off his economy booster, and his mana supply). As stated by Blizzard, DPylons are less durable and more expensive than pylons, so I'm setting my opponent back a lot by taking them out. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 19 2009 20:09 flabortaster wrote: Idra, the game DOES have auto-cast. On obvious spells like Med-vac heal. Psi-Storm has no Autocast because its not a spell you want to spam ALL THE TIME. You put autocast on spells that have cheap energy cost and obvious targets. There is a reason why not all spells have autocast. Autocast should NEVER be on AoE spells anyway... Granted SC2 has only a small amount of spells that require obvious targets as opposed to WC3's Bloodlust/Slow etc. but still spells which you cant to be casted ALL the time should have auto cast. Obviously you want Medic units auto healing your injured infantry if you somehow didn't want your medics/medivacs healing then you can shut off the auto heal. the game does not have autocast one spell has autocast theres no reason to assume theyd give dark pylons autocast when it would defeat the whole purpose of a macro mechanic. and you dont have control over what does and doesnt have autocast, medics heal whether you want them to or not unless you keep them out of range and put them on hold positions. you cant choose to have any other spell on autocast. | ||
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flabortaster
Philippines99 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
the whole point is forcing you to go back to your base to get a macro advantage over someone that doesnt it doesnt matter if you have a dedicated dark pylon for that or not. | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
Calldown Extra Supplies: sends additional supplies to a targeted Supply Depot. Generally used by Terran commanders only in an emergency to allow them to support additional troops. What the heck Yes, Blizzard, let's ruin actually important skills, instead of thinking for once what differentiates good and bad players. After all, keyboard/mouse stomping is so much more valuable skill than sense of timing, right. And looking at this Mule thing I feel dumb for arguing Medic can't be brought because of limit on units per race -__- | ||
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VorcePA
United States1102 Posts
On February 19 2009 20:05 Spawkuring wrote: There's nothing wrong with single target abilities. Irradiate is probably one of the most useful abilites in the game, and defensive matrix gets a decent amount of use. The reason why most single target abilities fail is simply because they weren't balanced properly. They're either too weak (Blind) or too expensive to tech to (Lockdown). Besides, you're making massive judgements about balance in a game you've never played. It seems overwhelming because it's a lot of information at once, but it'll all work out during beta testing. I reserve judgment for release, and not before. Beta testing should alleviate any concerns I might have. And that's what they are: concerns. One might define Starcraft as being a battle between massive armies, which would be a fairly good description. Why then, I ask you, are they making abilities that affect a single unit? Irradiate is a poor counterargument, because it affects more than just the unit cast upon. Splash affects everything around it. By definition, you're correct -- it's a single target ability, but it affects more than just the target. These abilities in this Q&A seem to effect the target and the target only. I could see the benefit of many of these abilities if they could be cast (and be useful) by more than one at the same time, the same way stimpack is a single-target ability, but it's cast by up to 12 units at a time. Someone posted when the Q&A batches probably were below 20 that they were annoyed by the fact that it seems like every unit has a special ability, and just wanted units that had an attack, and that was it. I thought they were being a bit dramatic back then. Here I am today, looking back on his comment and thinking "Well, now he's kind of right". There needs to be more units like the marine, the colossus, and the hydralisk that simply move about and attack. No weird gimmick that makes them shoot fire out of their ass. Hell, the reaper is a neat unit, and them with stimpack seems to go together like bread and butter, but I think throwing in timed mines is over-the-top. Not every unit in the game needs to be "special". The dragoon in Brood War doesn't have anything special about it, but you see it in virtually every match up featuring protoss. The dragoon is now back, but it can teleport around a la The Warden in Warcraft III. What's wrong with good-old fashioned goon-dancing? There's got to be a way to make them the backbone of the protoss army, just as versatile (if not moreso) than the immortal, and non-gimmicky. | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
On February 19 2009 20:29 IdrA wrote: the game does not have autocast one spell has autocast theres no reason to assume theyd give dark pylons autocast when it would defeat the whole purpose of a macro mechanic. and you dont have control over what does and doesnt have autocast, medics heal whether you want them to or not unless you keep them out of range and put them on hold positions. you cant choose to have any other spell on autocast. In SC2 just like in WC3 you can just right-click on heal and auto-cast will be turned off. No need to keep healer out of range and put him on hold Dark-pylons 'macro' spell can be easily made auto-cast. That will defeat its whole purpose, yes, and that's just shows how dumb this gimmick is. They try to compensate for supposedly negative effect of automation with something that can be easily automated itself. That's absolutely dumb. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 19 2009 20:48 InRaged wrote: In SC2 just like in WC3 you can just right-click on heal and auto-cast will be turned off. No need to keep healer out of range and put him on hold Dark-pylons 'macro' spell can be easily made auto-cast. That will defeat its whole purpose, yes, and that's just shows how dumb this gimmick is. They try to compensate for supposedly negative effect of automation with something that can be easily automated itself. That's absolutely dumb. i was talking about sc medics, i didnt know they changed the way it worked for sc2 and no, it doesnt really matter if its a gimmick. its a GAME. its set in OUTER SPACE. its humans fighting ALIENS. it ISNT REAL LIFE. if something makes for a better game who the fuck cares if its artificial or imposed. and this will make for a better game, its actually a pretty decent solution. with sbs, casual players still had to go back to their base and click a bunch of times in order to play at all, cuz if you didnt you didnt get any units. with dark pylons and mules and the larvae thing you can still play the game without using them, you'll suck but casual players shouldnt care about that. they can just sit there and attack move and watch the pretty battle animations to their hearts content. however to be good you'll have to use the the macro mechanics, which adds to the skill ceiling and brings back something of the macro multitasking demand. its a compromise so necessarily its not gonna be as good as either extreme, depending on your viewpoint, but its not too bad given they wont remove mbs. | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
It doesn't make for a better game any more than disabling auto-mining in ladder and enabling it anywhere else. It's even fucking worser - manual-mining was mundane but it wasn't game-deciding. But thanks to all the whining they basically brought it back as a game-deciding feature. Thank you. And I don't see it as a compromise for anything. It's plain catering to the macro-whiners that suddenly appeared out of nowhere with sc2 announce. When I choose to play competitive multiplayer RTS I wanna go head to head with my opponent and not sit 20 minutes DDRing in my base later comparing whose penis longer in one single battle. If I wanted that I would compete in split-screen Guitar Hero, at least there I would listen to the interesting music. | ||
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exeprime
United Kingdom643 Posts
On February 19 2009 20:39 VorcePA wrote: Irradiate is a poor counterargument, because it affects more than just the unit cast upon. Splash affects everything around it. By definition, you're correct -- it's a single target ability, but it affects more than just the target. These abilities in this Q&A seem to effect the target and the target only. Consume. Also, lots and lots of BW units had abilities. Marines had stimpacks, vultures had mines, tanks had siege, reavers and carriers needed their scarabs / interceptors built, etc etc BW is full of all kinds of abilities, and it makes sense that SC2 will also have plenty of them. | ||
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Error Ash
Germany177 Posts
On February 19 2009 21:40 InRaged wrote: ... It doesn't make for a better game any more than disabling auto-mining in ladder and enabling it anywhere else. Yes it does, having to justify why that feature should be turned on somewhere and off somewhere else is totally inconsistant and ridiculous. Now its a unified version that makes sense, and gives everyone the same new good UI. It's even fucking worser - manual-mining was mundane but it wasn't game-deciding. But thanks to all the whining they basically brought it back as a game-deciding feature. Thank you. How can you know it is more game deciding than sending your probes to work, have you tested the new features? In my oppinion its exactly the same, not sending new probes to work = less income, not using the macro mechanic = less income, only that newbie players don't have to use the new macro mechanic, whereas newb players still have to send their probes to mine... And I don't see it as a compromise for anything. It's plain catering to the macro-whiners that suddenly appeared out of nowhere with sc2 announce. When I choose to play competitive multiplayer RTS I wanna go head to head with my opponent and not sit 20 minutes DDRing in my base later comparing whose penis longer in one single battle. If I wanted that I would compete in split-screen Guitar Hero, at least there I would listen to the interesting music. If you are "paying DDR in your base for 20 minutes" before any battle happens then thats your playstyle. There can be players who heavily focus on micro, not "playing DDR" at all, and there can be players who play macro heavy. If balanced right, there is room for a lot of different playstyles. Also SCBW music rocks! | ||
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