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The Official Minor Complaints Thread - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
November 07 2008 19:50 GMT
#101
On November 04 2008 11:49 alphafuzard wrote:
2. replays need to be rewindable!!! (guessing they are putting this in? its a no brainer)

If you had any idea what you were talking about you would realise that replay rewinding is so difficult to the point that it is infeasible to implement.
GeneralStan
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States4789 Posts
November 07 2008 20:48 GMT
#102
On the blacked out minimap issue, I think Warcraft III hit the nail right on the head, and I hhope it stays that way. In War III, there are two levels of fog of war. A dark one that obscures some things, but shows major features like coast lines and gold mines, and a light one that is exactly like fog in Starcraft. You can't build in the dark fog.

Basically, you replace the blackness of Starcraft with a dark fog that shows you the basic lay of the land. I don't see any advantage at all to leaving the map totally black. it affects a small percentage of games and allows players to enjoy a wider variety of maps and utilize a wider variety of stratgies since they don't have to memorize a map to know where to drop tanks.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ImgGartok
Profile Joined August 2007
United States216 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-07 20:55:39
November 07 2008 20:53 GMT
#103
On November 04 2008 04:22 rushz0rz wrote:
- I hate the Colossus. The idea, the model, and the name.


Did you even read the guidelines for the thread?

- I don't like the fences in the game. The original never had them, why are you putting them in? It's too... I hate to say it.... C&C-esque. Look here.


OH GOD, CnC HAD FENCES! You know CnC had tanks too, better scrap the siege tank, it's way too CnC-like. CnC.

So much for the minor complaint thread. How about the minor complaint thread that coincides with FrozenArbiter's opinion thread?


Just because this thread is for nit picking doesn't mean the nit picking can't be unfounded, irrational and flat out annoying to read. I mean, seriously, fences because CnC had fences?
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
November 07 2008 21:26 GMT
#104
Got 5 minutes... hope I didn't post this already. Some (all?) of this is in agreement with some other posters.


1. Make Colossus more fun. Give some quick kill abilities (best option IMO). Maybe make the first hit do a lot of damage, and the line do a small splash amount. That'd make it more like a reaver/tank, which are fun. Or just give it some energy/time based scarabs or missles or something. Or they are against making it a killing machine, at least make it a dancing machine... make its walk speed way faster (think reaver in a shuttle or simply the immense range of a siege tank).

2. Give me a Nighthawk irl. I love their new look (kinda looks like an arbiter actually).

3. Defiler graphics are still way better than the Infestor graphics. (Love the rest of the Zerg unit graphics, for the most part... more so than T or P actually).

4. Make probe skinnier and SCV fatter (in looks alone... keep actual sizes the same for balance).

Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
November 07 2008 22:00 GMT
#105

1. Make Colossus more fun. Give some quick kill abilities (best option IMO). Maybe make the first hit do a lot of damage, and the line do a small splash amount. That'd make it more like a reaver/tank, which are fun. Or just give it some energy/time based scarabs or missles or something. Or they are against making it a killing machine, at least make it a dancing machine... make its walk speed way faster (think reaver in a shuttle or simply the immense range of a siege tank).

I've actually always wondered why there isn't a unit that has like a "turbo" ability :D It'd make much more sense for, say, a Hellion than the Colossus tho.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
November 08 2008 00:57 GMT
#106
the colossus has a lame attack graphic.
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
November 08 2008 01:04 GMT
#107
aaahhhh.
the closer we get to sc2 the more i love brood war =D

- Another good thing they could fix are those brighty tilesets -at least in the movies they looked too brighty- that would help a lot gameplay visibility
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
November 08 2008 03:05 GMT
#108
On November 04 2008 04:35 Savio wrote:
Make Roach Melee

Explanation:

The purpose of the roach is to absorb damage in lower mineral situations so other units can get the kills. However, their design runs completely counter to their purpose.

Please make the roach a melee unit. That way they can actually absorb damage that would have just killed the zerglings who currently run past the roaches to attack.

A units design should not nullify its purpose. The design should bolster/strengthen its purpose.


This is not a major change since the stats could be the same and the attack animation would be very easy to change.

you're wrong. zerglings' worst enemies aren't melee units, they're ranged units. so the roaches will successfully draw the fire of ranged units
Manowarrior
Profile Joined May 2007
United States159 Posts
November 08 2008 06:40 GMT
#109
On November 08 2008 12:05 dcttr66 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 04:35 Savio wrote:
Make Roach Melee

Explanation:

The purpose of the roach is to absorb damage in lower mineral situations so other units can get the kills. However, their design runs completely counter to their purpose.

Please make the roach a melee unit. That way they can actually absorb damage that would have just killed the zerglings who currently run past the roaches to attack.

A units design should not nullify its purpose. The design should bolster/strengthen its purpose.


This is not a major change since the stats could be the same and the attack animation would be very easy to change.

you're wrong. zerglings' worst enemies aren't melee units, they're ranged units. so the roaches will successfully draw the fire of ranged units


Damn! In before me!

But yeah. Remove MBS/Automine/Autosurround, yadda yadda.

Minor complaint .. and this shouldn't really be a complaint, but more of a request ... please oh please make sure the music is badass.
404.Nintu
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1723 Posts
November 08 2008 06:50 GMT
#110
What I've noticed a LOT was, and I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone else bring it up, the non-visible attacks from like, half the units in the game. Most the ranged attacks in the game are unclear, or really, really tiny. I could hardly tell when units were firing, even mutalisks. Ingame, I'm certain it's much clearer, but from the videos I've seen, the attacks were unclear or realistically (-_-)small.

Maybe I'm insane or partially blind, but this has been irking me since the first gameplay video.
"So, then did the American yum-yum clown monkey also represent the FCC?"
mister.bubbles
Profile Joined September 2008
Canada171 Posts
November 08 2008 06:58 GMT
#111
Most of the death animations are lame. One of my favorite parts of BW was the gore explosions of dying Ultralisks and whatnot. Now they just kind of keel over and sink into the ground. Some other units' deaths are too elaborate too. It's distracting and ugly.

And I hate the idea of MBS.
http://808seppuku.bandcamp.com/ <---Quick! Go here!
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
November 08 2008 08:34 GMT
#112
yeah, attack animations were easy to distinguish in brood war but i could barely tell the difference in the videos(watchability)
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
Alizee-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States845 Posts
November 08 2008 10:41 GMT
#113
quit delaying beta
Strength behind the Pride
Aerox
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Malaysia1213 Posts
November 08 2008 15:31 GMT
#114
On November 08 2008 19:41 Alizee- wrote:
quit delaying beta

You know they'd have to clamp down some things to be unchangeable when it gets to beta. It'll be all your fault if SC2 turns out to be shit.
"Eyes in the sky."
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-08 17:43:59
November 08 2008 17:21 GMT
#115
On November 08 2008 15:50 Nintu wrote:
What I've noticed a LOT was, and I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone else bring it up, the non-visible attacks from like, half the units in the game. Most the ranged attacks in the game are unclear, or really, really tiny. I could hardly tell when units were firing, even mutalisks. Ingame, I'm certain it's much clearer, but from the videos I've seen, the attacks were unclear or realistically (-_-)small.

Maybe I'm insane or partially blind, but this has been irking me since the first gameplay video.

yeah mostly the only ones i noticed were from the stalkers and the colossus units. i liked the stalker attack, but someone else didn't like it. since the stalker attack seemed kinda like a battlecruiser attack in that it's laser instead of energy ball...it seems like the stalker is stronger than dragoon in two ways now...an instant attack and teleporting.
alot of what they need to change are graphics...but blizzard has always said that the first thing they like to get out of the way is the gameplay...so since the game isn't balanced yet they haven't really kicked the graphics into high gear yet...which is the main area people are complaining about...including me...i wouldn't complain about it but it could be noted that the warp prism has two shadows and the overlord only has one shadow.

On November 05 2008 02:12 sushiman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 21:05 DeCoup wrote:
On November 04 2008 19:48 sushiman wrote:
On November 04 2008 12:27 onepost wrote:
On November 04 2008 05:10 sushiman wrote:
Autosurround. I think alot of people will agree on that one.

I don't. Besides, it can't really be removed because there is no such thing as autosurround; it's the result of improved pathfinding.

In BW, the pathfinding was for individual units, and it was such a crappy heuristic (wander around obstacles at random, increase search depth incrementally if that doesn't work) that it hardly deserved to be called pathfinding.

But in SC2, the game uses cooperating pathfinding (managing one solution for multiple units, if you prefer), seamlessly managing collisions at chokes for example (you know, what made your tanks or dragoons disperse erratically if they bumped into each other at a narrow passage, sometimes without a single unit coming out?). Naturally, it makes large groups of units surround a common target or they would all bump into each other. There is no workaround.

And frankly, I don't think there is a problem either.

There is autosurround. Units will instantly form a perfect circle around a unit if they're given the order to attack it. This even applies to workers.
Maybe you don't see it as a problem, but the fact is that this greatly reduces skills required to micro. You no longer have to be careful with flanking or split up your lings to make that perfect surround of a unit; the computer will handle it for you. As it is, players will only be able to focus on defensive micro instead of both defense/offense as in original SC. It's dumbing down the game.
Better pathfinding should be in the game, units reacting instantly to surround other units should not.


No, onepost is right. There is no such thing as auto-surround. The units surrounding an enemy is a result of improved pathing. An attempt to get out from behind the guy infront of them so too can attack. Units being so stupid that they stand behind each other instead of moving so they can attack would be a stupid thing to maintain.

If you were in a war and your captain told you to kill an enemy with a knife, you would not just stand their because your team mates are between you and the enemy. You would move around your friend to get to your enemy. It would be beyond stupid to break improved pathing to maintain this lack of feature.

Improved pathing is one thing, units automatically surrounding is another. I have nothing against units knowing which route to take to a destination, I love the concept of not having to babysit my units due to some map having small passages or neutral buildings blocking the route, making the AI of the units break and forcing them to dance around.
However, units automatically positioning themself to always attack units is an entirely different thing. If anything, they should just stop units from dancing around trying to reach the target. Instead they should wait in place until given order to move around or the unit in front moves/dies, then continue with the previous command, unless another one is given. If the units automatically find the best angle and moves around, I'd say the amount of micro required for your units would be reduced by at least 30-40%, which is not good for a game that have already streamlined macro immensely (which is another subject that won't be discussed here).
I realize you might consider this a backward move when pathing can be improved so much, but I find this a huge concern in a game that should demand alot from a player and his/her control of the units.

uhm...most micro involves trying to figure out what to attack when.
wasting micro on stupid unit pathing hurts the game.
that means that people that go clickity click click click click click are better than those that just go clickity click click

anyway surrounding units was a big deal in wc3 because of hero units. since starcraft has no hero units it's not going to be a big deal.

On November 05 2008 03:34 Blacklizard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 04:33 XCetron wrote:
In SC I could have a probe selected and do bp+leftclick +rightclick on a mineral patch and there would be a pylon warping in and my probe would be mining, all in less than a second. When playing SC2 at blizzcon, I had to wait for the probe to actually sits there and build the pylon before being able to order it to mine again, there was a delay. If I did the bp+leftclick+rightclick too quickly then the probe would just sit there and be stupid for approx .25 sec and then go back to mining, without initiating the warp for the pylon.


Yeah, sounds to me like it's going too fast b/c of the LAN thing like FA said. Just hold shift down while doing this, and you'll be fine.

or use high or extra high latency
PliX
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands72 Posts
November 08 2008 20:10 GMT
#116
Oh on another note with way too much beer, I would like to have a lame useless ability, like flare
1. NTT - Best Brood War player in the history of the game. Also totally awesome and super sweet. Some ego problems.
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-09 02:24:44
November 09 2008 02:24 GMT
#117
excuse me? flare is like comsat...it's a good ability
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
November 09 2008 02:42 GMT
#118
On November 09 2008 11:24 dcttr66 wrote:
excuse me? flare is like comsat...it's a good ability

Optical Flare - aka blind, is a spell the medic has in BW ;p
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
garmule2
Profile Joined March 2006
United States376 Posts
November 09 2008 03:21 GMT
#119
New engine. No matter what Blizzard says, you and I all know that SC2, Diablo 3, WoW, and WC3 were all just modified from the same glows-too-much cartoonish-looking ooh-its-like-WoW-it-must-be-awesome engine that the lazy programmers over at Blizzard have been using for years. These aren't the same guys that produced the real gems from Blizzard's past. It shows.
The dangers of poor typing skills can be evinced by the dire parable about the hungry boy who accidentally ate a luscious red Yamato, and promptly died.
Cpt.Cocaine
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada299 Posts
November 09 2008 04:11 GMT
#120
-jungle tileset looks too bright and it annoys me in every video I see. All the other environments look perfectly fine.

-marauder is bland and uninteresting. I wish they'd just cut it completely. SC2 has too many units already.

-don't like how hydras look like they're dancing and shooting arrows. I miss the old instant-fire attack, and the animation in BW made more sense

-scvs should explode.. no scrap that, -all- units should explode.
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